August 20, 20222 yr Things are churning. I wouldn't expect any construction before next summer at the earliest though.
August 20, 20222 yr Hope the design is churning too. I really hate the way it looks. That site is too valuable to waste on a two bit generic piece of architecture.
September 13, 20222 yr ESPN Cleveland moves into Cleveland's Flats (FIRST LOOK) https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2022/09/09/espn-cleveland-moves-into-flats.html
September 13, 20222 yr is it just me or is that a weird place for corporate offices? Like that's prime retail space for bars/restaurants. And now a chunk of storefront is going to be empty aside from weekdays from 9-5. Just seems like a waste of money if I were ESPN because they must be paying a pretty penny there instead of in an office building. If those points were addressed in the article then I apologize I just don't have a subscription to bizjournals so I can't read it.
September 13, 20222 yr 2 minutes ago, dwolfi01 said: is it just me or is that a weird place for corporate offices? Like that's prime retail space for bars/restaurants. And now a chunk of storefront is going to be empty aside from weekdays from 9-5. Just seems like a waste of money if I were ESPN because they must be paying a pretty penny there instead of in an office building. If those points were addressed in the article then I apologize I just don't have a subscription to bizjournals so I can't read it. It sat empty as a retail space for nearly a decade. This is more than welcome especially in the context of turning the area into an actual neighborhood. Will be a really cool feature on big game days, a nice place for a national spotlight during those playoff runs.
September 13, 20222 yr Been waiting what feels like a long time for this one! I'm not sure why but this is really exciting to me. It just feels like proper big city energy in the heart of a growing neighborhood. This will begin to propel the flats from just "bars and food" to a real entertainment district!
September 13, 20222 yr It looks like a solid addition. The last thing that EFB needs is to remain a singular destination full of bars and restaurants, especially as it never fully took off from a retail/dining/bar perspective and COVID.
October 27, 20222 yr https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/flats-east-bank-apartments-hitting-market-wake-developer-scott-wolsteins-death "A waterfront apartment building at the Flats East Bank in downtown Cleveland is hitting the market this week, as a mezzanine lender on the project takes steps to foreclose. The future of the 240-unit apartment building, called the Flats at East Bank, is in flux in the wake of developer Scott Wolstein's death. Wolstein, who was 69, died in May, six months after being diagnosed with an aggressive cancer that quickly robbed him of his ability to speak." Is this likely to have any impact on the next phases or is this an unrelated development?
October 27, 20222 yr A lot of detailed "interesting stuff" in that article. I read it before checking out who the reporter was and then scrolled up and was not surprised that it was Michelle Jabore. I really have to stop fanboying over her. It is getting embarrassing. It is just that she is an incredible reporter.
October 27, 20222 yr im surprised rent is that low at what they quoted in the article of $2100/month. I thought for sure that would be higher given the other recent builds around the city.
October 27, 20222 yr So if I understand mezzanine loans correctly (they can take equity in lieu of cash in case of default) , that lender who wants to foreclose may be pleased to take over the building as owner of some percentage and run it. It would be nice to know who that lender is. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
January 9, 20232 yr Figured I’d take you all down memory lane. It’s been twenty years since I took these photos…
January 10, 20232 yr Not that I would suggest we forget history, but this isn’t the thread for discussing the “downfall of the Flats” or conspiracy theories that take the thread off topic. Anyone is free to continue that discussion in the appropriate place- feel free to create a new thread if need be. clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
January 12, 20232 yr The lender has taken ownership of Flats East Bank in default, protecting his loan value. I've thought for a while the problem with FEB was lack of critical mass (a couple buildings short of a real neighborhood) and the article makes it sound as if Scott Wolstein's health was a contributing factor. Unfortunately, the lender is unlikely to finish the project. https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/lender-take-ownership-flats-east-bank-apartments Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
January 12, 20232 yr Author Wolstein was a bit player in phase 3b "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 13, 20232 yr 3 hours ago, Dougal said: The lender has taken ownership of Flats East Bank in default, protecting his loan value. I've thought for a while the problem with FEB was lack of critical mass (a couple buildings short of a real neighborhood) and the article makes it sound as if Scott Wolstein's health was a contributing factor. Unfortunately, the lender is unlikely to finish the project. https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/lender-take-ownership-flats-east-bank-apartments If you read the article it clearly states the rest of the project along with the parking lots earmarked for development are not affected. So hope is not lost. What is the problem is, as Ken said, he was a big proponent of the next phase and they have said that phase was initially delayed by his death.
January 13, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, dwolfi01 said: If you read the article it clearly states the rest of the project along with the parking lots earmarked for development are not affected. Where did I say otherwise? Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
January 13, 20232 yr 14 minutes ago, Dougal said: Where did I say otherwise? Sorry you said the lender is unlikely to finish the project making it sound like you thought they were taking over everything. The future development to finish the FEB project is unaffected so I was confused as to why you thought the lender was responsible to finish it.
January 13, 20232 yr 10 hours ago, dwolfi01 said: Sorry you said the lender is unlikely to finish the project making it sound like you thought they were taking over everything. The future development to finish the FEB project is unaffected so I was confused as to why you thought the lender was responsible to finish it. Sorry also. I don't think the lender will move to protect his investment by additional development (which probably would protect his investment). Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
May 17, 20232 yr GBX looks to invest in the the flats.https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/gbx-group-seeks-partner-flats-riverfront-development
May 17, 20232 yr 18 minutes ago, simplythis said: GBX looks to invest in the the flats.https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/gbx-group-seeks-partner-flats-riverfront-development So reading between all the verbiage, the hemming and hawing and pure BS...we don't have the money and we want somebody else's money. I guess the George's pockets really are not that deep.
May 18, 20232 yr ^ Sounds about right. The plans for that stretch of Old River were really cool. On the one hand l was super excited about them. On the other hand it's the family George so l don't wish success for them. Turns out the project is nothing more than some pretty pictures and wishful thinking. OK then.
May 18, 20232 yr So whatever happened to that Kenect project? On the parking lot between the hotel/Lago and the main building/punch bowl etc.
May 18, 20232 yr Scott Wolstein was working on the next phases of FEB specifically Phase 3B Kennect. Then he passed away from cancer. Then there was some weird foreclosure on the large FEB apartment building. Hopefully KJP can give us some insight on what is happening there.
May 18, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, zbaris87 said: The Kennect project is dead, the lot is privately for sale at the moment. Disappointing but not surprising. One of the reasons I joined UrbanOhio way back when was to add my two cents to the discussions surrounding the Flats East Bank when it was still just an idea and Wolstein was having headaches trying to secure all the land he needed from reluctant owners. This was about 18 years ago. It really is disappointing that the full vision has not been realized all these years despite best efforts. Even more disappointing is that the project never did, at least to date, trigger any real development in adjacent areas, something I thought would have been a given.
May 18, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, zbaris87 said: The Kennect project is dead, the lot is privately for sale at the moment. Wow. Not surprised but disappointed
May 18, 20232 yr 13 minutes ago, simplythis said: Wow. Not surprised but disappointed Maybe this is one of the locations @KJP told the out-of-town investors about? Edited May 18, 20232 yr by dski44
May 19, 20232 yr On an optimistic note, the Kennect project falling through will give another developer a chance to come up with something better which won't be all that hard considering how ugly Kennect was. Fingers crossed.
May 19, 20232 yr Author I emailed two of the top executives at Akara Partners, asking if the land was for sale, and so far no reply. I know at least one of them opened the email. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 5, 20232 yr https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/cleveland-flats-bar-owner-says-developer-gbx-group-is-harassing-him-into-leaving/ar-AA1c9ezc?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=1968b616e31448bc8adf0a88f27dd396&ei=28 these are some serious allegations, hopefully they can resolve their differences Edited June 5, 20232 yr by MrR
June 5, 20232 yr ^ Yeah, some serious allegations indeed. I’d imagine a lot of it stems from it not being the kind of business/ clientele that GBX (and isn’t the Gxxxge family also involved?) want down there. I’ve walked by in the evening and seen that you get wanded at the door. My hovercraft is full of eels
June 7, 20232 yr The real nuisance was having that former BW-3 vacant for decades. Having said that, I've been inside and it is almost exactly like the old BW-3 so I don’t buy the $500K interior upgrades mentioned by the owner. Not sure the real reason GBX is taking them to court for, but I just hope we don’t go back to a building that sits there unoccupied forever.
August 17, 20231 yr EY Tower news.https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/wolstein-family-faces-loss-ey-tower-flats-east-bank
August 17, 20231 yr Sounds like exactly what happened to the apartment building right? If I'm reading it correctly. Scott dies and that causes some loans to be due or allows the financiers to collect their principle or take ownership? What a domino effect that seems to be putting a damper on what was an area that was really taking off. Still bummed that next phase got put on hold.
October 20, 20231 yr Bobby George acquires more of the Flat's East Bank https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/bobby-george-wolsteins-reach-deal-stake-flats-east-bank-retail-properties
October 21, 20231 yr I can't read the article but if George wants an impact presence in the Flats l wish he would start with his project just to the south on Riverview Rd.
October 21, 20231 yr Author 6 hours ago, cadmen said: I can't read the article but if George wants an impact presence in the Flats l wish he would start with his project just to the south on Riverview Rd. He's out of that project "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 21, 20231 yr Well that is too bad. The development looked very enticing. Open the windows on the Samsel building and adding life to that part of the street thereby extending the Flats scene is a great idea. Not doing that is unfortunate. I know it's not all that uncommon in the development world but man, it seems like we get more than our fare share of cool plans that go nowhere.
October 22, 20231 yr Could this just be a flip play? Wouldn't put it past him to buy up some land, sit on it, then try and flip later. Kinda like he did with the irishtown bend land. Draw up some fancy plans pretending to want to develop but really just want to make a quick buck. I can see if he knows there's development going on around there him sitting on the land for a few years to sell at a profit later. Totally a guess but I haven't seen him develop anything new actually ever since I moved here years ago.
October 22, 20231 yr 8 hours ago, dwolfi01 said: Could this just be a flip play? Wouldn't put it past him to buy up some land, sit on it, then try and flip later. Kinda like he did with the irishtown bend land. Draw up some fancy plans pretending to want to develop but really just want to make a quick buck. I can see if he knows there's development going on around there him sitting on the land for a few years to sell at a profit later. Totally a guess but I haven't seen him develop anything new actually ever since I moved here years ago. I think the quotes from him in the article are telling. He's good at running hospitality businesses the youth resonate with. I think him owning these spaces and having a hand in whatever the businesses do within each is more in line with his core competencies. What no one is discussing is that he now owns the FWD space (a competitor to him with his Barley House bar/club). It will be interesting to see how that plays out. I think that's his true play here. As much as I don't enjoy a George owned business, please end Margaritaville and replace it with something Bobby.
October 22, 20231 yr 2 hours ago, downtownjoe said: I think the quotes from him in the article are telling. He's good at running hospitality businesses the youth resonate with. I think him owning these spaces and having a hand in whatever the businesses do within each is more in line with his core competencies. What no one is discussing is that he now owns the FWD space (a competitor to him with his Barley House bar/club). It will be interesting to see how that plays out. I think that's his true play here. As much as I don't enjoy a George owned business, please end Margaritaville and replace it with something Bobby. Margaritaville is a depressing establishment. I have no idea how it stays in business. And if you’ve ever been there, you’ll immediately be in awe of the wasted space inside.
October 23, 20231 yr 23 hours ago, marty15 said: Margaritaville is a depressing establishment. Went in there ironically once, big mistake. I did have the chance to ask the bartender how often he heard Cheeseburger in Paradise each shift and he rolled his eyes lol On 10/22/2023 at 8:53 AM, downtownjoe said: he now owns the FWD space Someone posted on reddit (yeah, great source) but they mentioned he owns the land, not the business...also, not my scene, but I don't think FWD and Barley are 1:1, similar clientele but different things. Edited October 23, 20231 yr by GISguy
October 23, 20231 yr On 10/22/2023 at 11:01 AM, marty15 said: Margaritaville is a depressing establishment. I have no idea how it stays in business. And if you’ve ever been there, you’ll immediately be in awe of the wasted space inside. Mr. Buffett sure got a lot of mileage out of a couple hit songs. https://www.foodrepublic.com/1383959/margaritaville-cheeseburger-in-paradise-jimmy-buffet-death/
October 24, 20231 yr 15 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said: Mr. Buffett sure got a lot of mileage out of a couple hit songs. https://www.foodrepublic.com/1383959/margaritaville-cheeseburger-in-paradise-jimmy-buffet-death/ out here it sounds more like developer’s lost shaker of salt than jimmy b., but anyway this is via eater — 😅🎃 There’s more trouble in paradise: On August 12, the Margaritaville resort in Times Square filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy again: Its owner, Soho Properties, is looking to refinance $309 million in debt tied to the resort. The real estate developer filed for bankruptcy last month in a last-ditch effort to save Margaritaville from being foreclosed, and the two cases will likely be administered together, according to Crain’s New York Business. “Although the hotel is on the upswing, it still faces a multitude of defaults with its lenders, franchise holders, and vendors,” Sethian Pomerantz, vice president of Soho Properties, said in a court filing.
November 17, 20231 yr New outdoor stage nearly finished in Flats East Bank. I never understood EXACTLY what this was for. Did I miss something? The link doesn't take me anywhere.Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk
November 17, 20231 yr 3 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said: I never understood EXACTLY what this was for. Did I miss something? The link doesn't take me anywhere. Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk Same boat as you. Pun intended. But I'm guessing for music artists. Also looks like a good spot for a morning football show
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