January 18, 20241 yr 5 minutes ago, freefourur said: Building over the river could affect shipping traffic. I agree with @surfohioroute the "boardwalk" along the sidewalk to go around buildings where you have to. I think it'll still be a great experience. Not the most accurate measure, but measuring on Google maps the river is ~288ft wide here. Just around the bend, near Center St the river narrows to ~140ft. I'll defer to anyone else with more expertise on this but, I don't think taking up a bit of the river for a boardwalk will significantly inhibit shipping traffic. I don't think routing along Old River is a bad alternative, but if we could keep it along the river I think we should.
January 18, 20241 yr 16 minutes ago, Luke_S said: Not the most accurate measure, but measuring on Google maps the river is ~288ft wide here. Just around the bend, near Center St the river narrows to ~140ft. I'll defer to anyone else with more expertise on this but, I don't think taking up a bit of the river for a boardwalk will significantly inhibit shipping traffic. I don't think routing along Old River is a bad alternative, but if we could keep it along the river I think we should. Not totally related, but I'd recommend using the county's GIS to measure out that stuff. It's not perfect, but at least you're measuring against the most recent imagery (and in the case of 2023 Fall - the Lady Caroline across the river). Edited January 18, 20241 yr by GISguy
January 18, 20241 yr 35 minutes ago, Luke_S said: Not the most accurate measure, but measuring on Google maps the river is ~288ft wide here. Just around the bend, near Center St the river narrows to ~140ft. I'll defer to anyone else with more expertise on this but, I don't think taking up a bit of the river for a boardwalk will significantly inhibit shipping traffic. I don't think routing along Old River is a bad alternative, but if we could keep it along the river I think we should. Kind of what I was environing to get around properties that don't want to participate (if feasible). Obviously pricey.
January 18, 20241 yr I dunno, I think restaurant patios on the water are a great draw, and gives a more organic feel to the area. Connectivity is the main thing. Even bringing the path onto ORR right at 1330 would be great. Bring all the pedestrian traffic to the business side. With George’s development, and Samsel redevelopment and activation of its store fronts, that stretch of ORR could be super cool. Funneling people onto the street would be an added benefit imo.
January 18, 20241 yr 20 minutes ago, marty15 said: I dunno, I think restaurant patios on the water are a great draw, and and gives a more organic feel to the area. Connectivity is the main thing. Even bringing the path onto ORR right at 1330 would be great. Bring all the pedestrian traffic to the business side. With George’s development, and Samsel redevelopment and activation of its store fronts, that stretch of ORR could be super cool. Funneling people onto the street would be an added benefit imo. Agree. And also a reason why I think the boardwalk needs to be completely connected or contiguous. Boardwalks are that rare thing that helps break the mindset that people need to park exactly right next to a specific retailer. Parking lots can be located elsewhere in reasonable proximity, perhaps share with Towpath parking.
January 18, 20241 yr 40 minutes ago, surfohio said: Agree. And also a reason why I think the boardwalk needs to be completely connected or contiguous. Boardwalks are that rare thing that helps break the mindset that people need to park exactly right next to a specific retailer. Parking lots can be located elsewhere in reasonable proximity, perhaps share with Towpath parking. I'll second that. While my preference is for this to be on the river, it's for it to be continuous on the river. Continuity > river fronting
January 18, 20241 yr The idea of carrying a boardwalk into the river around the private developments reminded me of this article I'd seen a few days ago... https://newyorkyimby.com/2024/01/east-midtown-greenway-opens-along-east-river-waterfront-in-midtown-manhattan.html
January 19, 20241 yr STOP ROLLIN DOOBIES AND DO SOMETHING I DON’T WANNA HAVE TO LIVE LIKE THIS DOWN HERE FOREVER! 😂
January 19, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, JohnSummit said: The idea of carrying a boardwalk into the river around the private developments reminded me of this article I'd seen a few days ago... https://newyorkyimby.com/2024/01/east-midtown-greenway-opens-along-east-river-waterfront-in-midtown-manhattan.html Something like this would take 40+ years of studying before it got serious movement in this city.
January 19, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, JohnSummit said: The idea of carrying a boardwalk into the river around the private developments reminded me of this article I'd seen a few days ago... https://newyorkyimby.com/2024/01/east-midtown-greenway-opens-along-east-river-waterfront-in-midtown-manhattan.html yeah that one is newly built. i saw they have a long one of those along part of the brisbane river too. i thought of that, but i think the cuyahoga is too narrow. edit — here is brisbane’s version: Edited January 19, 20241 yr by mrnyc
January 19, 20241 yr is it really that onerous to maintain public access? does it drastically impact developers visions? seems to me it would be a bonus, having more access/visibility as a draw so I'm (probably naively) having a hard time understanding why they fight it so hard.
January 19, 20241 yr 17 minutes ago, Jax said: is it really that onerous to maintain public access? does it drastically impact developers visions? seems to me it would be a bonus, having more access/visibility as a draw so I'm (probably naively) having a hard time understanding why they fight it so hard. . ^ me too, but i’m guessing its because its tight and there is no seperation between the businesses and the non paying public going by and they don’t like or want to deal with that. to put it bluntly, that they are afraid of drunks and bums coming along bothering patrons and of liability.
January 19, 20241 yr On 1/17/2024 at 8:05 PM, GISguy said: True, but at some point the city needs to push back. The river is a public asset (and public money goes towards keeping their businesses from falling into the river). The city talks a big game about lakefront/water access but then does stuff like 1330. It's unfortunate and shortsighted. Never underestimate Bobby George's ability to play a victim and stomp his feet until the city gives in. Having said that, I don't mind the restaurant abutting the river - I'd just love to see some sort of public thruway that's not the sidewalk
January 19, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, Jax said: is it really that onerous to maintain public access? does it drastically impact developers visions? seems to me it would be a bonus, having more access/visibility as a draw so I'm (probably naively) having a hard time understanding why they fight it so hard. I think it's straight up a space issue. Restaurants make money by turning over tables. Places like Collision Bend will frequently have long waits for patio seating, and zero wait for indoor seating when the weather is nice. Sacrificing some of their patio for a boardwalk means giving up some of those highly desired outdoor tables. In other words the restaurant makes less money. This isn't to touch on how a patio abutting the river will likely be more in demand than on abutting a boardwalk. People going to these restaurants are paying for the view. The space is by far the bigger issue though. When the weather is nice I've never seen Collision Bend have a hard time filling the patio. They don't need to attract people in. What they need is space outside to seat them.
January 19, 20241 yr Just watched the presentation, looks overall very high quality and a good mix of uses through out the properties. Excited to see how it transforms with the additional more feedback. Love the river view with the bridge on full display Edited January 19, 20241 yr by BoomerangCleRes
January 19, 20241 yr 15 minutes ago, Ethan said: The space is by far the bigger issue though. When the weather is nice I've never seen Collision Bend have a hard time filling the patio. They don't need to attract people in. What they need is space outside to seat them. I've seen some warm weather restaurants enlarge their outdoor space by extending the patio into the shell of the building. It seemed to work ok. I think Collision Bend could easily do this, whether or not they give up space to a boardwalk. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
January 19, 20241 yr @BoomerangCleResYes that is a great shot and (at least to us) it says "Cleveland." But imagine it without the bridge. It would say "Anywhere America." That's why l think without that bridge the Flats wouldn't be the Flats. Just another place to get a drink.
January 19, 20241 yr Did they render that background on an N64? Makes we want to play some GoldenEye. Otherwise the project does honestly look nice. For the many things I don't like about Bobby George, his restaurants and developments usually look pretty good.
January 19, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, Dougal said: I've seen some warm weather restaurants enlarge their outdoor space by extending the patio into the shell of the building. It seemed to work ok. I think Collision Bend could easily do this, whether or not they give up space to a boardwalk. exactly. its not strictly about losing seating. that can be accommodated by opening up the space in various ways. there are other problems related to having having the public walk by so close to patrons. it really depends on what kind of establishment the joint is. for casual, its fun to have the people go close by, for finer dining, not so much in your face. this is the kind of problem popular beaches have, where ideally there is public access all along the waterfront or if not problems arise. the city should have at least come up with some kind of flats properties riverfront access guidance for developers long ago. its probably too late now.
January 19, 20241 yr i hope george comes through. Remember Scott Wolstein had a lot of Phase 3, 3A and then a couple of different iterations of 3a and all we got is some fish shacks out of it. Scott got an aggressive cancer and that is the end of all of the phases. I hope he can come through on both sides of old river road.
January 19, 20241 yr 6 hours ago, Ethan said: I think it's straight up a space issue. Restaurants make money by turning over tables. Places like Collision Bend will frequently have long waits for patio seating, and zero wait for indoor seating when the weather is nice. Sacrificing some of their patio for a boardwalk means giving up some of those highly desired outdoor tables. In other words the restaurant makes less money. This isn't to touch on how a patio abutting the river will likely be more in demand than on abutting a boardwalk. People going to these restaurants are paying for the view. The space is by far the bigger issue though. When the weather is nice I've never seen Collision Bend have a hard time filling the patio. They don't need to attract people in. What they need is space outside to seat them. What is the property law here? Can the city petition the army corps to add another bulkhead 4' into the river, and add a boardwalk there? At that point you could even lower the boardwalk, so it doesn't obstruct the views of Bobby George's patrons.
January 20, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, Cleburger said: What is the property law here? Can the city petition the army corps to add another bulkhead 4' into the river, and add a boardwalk there? At that point you could even lower the boardwalk, so it doesn't obstruct the views of Bobby George's patrons. Hmmm... or raise it?
January 20, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, Cleburger said: What is the property law here? Can the city petition the army corps to add another bulkhead 4' into the river, and add a boardwalk there? At that point you could even lower the boardwalk, so it doesn't obstruct the views of Bobby George's patrons. I am not a lawyer but i did take a property law class. I would bet the legal description of the parcel goes to the water line. Generally, land that abuts water is granted access to the water as part of the ownership rights.
January 23, 20241 yr Crain's Business story about River Garden Concept. https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate
January 29, 20241 yr Author Flats East Bank sets the stage for more By Ken Prendergast / January 29, 2024 With construction now complete, Downtown Cleveland, Inc. and Flats East Bank today unveiled a new performance stage on the Flats East Bank boardwalk, adjacent to the Cuyahoga River and The Flats at East Bank Apartments. But that could set the stage for more to come on the Flats East Bank. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/01/29/flats-east-bank-sets-the-stage-for-more/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 29, 20241 yr 10 minutes ago, KJP said: Flats East Bank sets the stage for more By Ken Prendergast / January 29, 2024 With construction now complete, Downtown Cleveland, Inc. and Flats East Bank today unveiled a new performance stage on the Flats East Bank boardwalk, adjacent to the Cuyahoga River and The Flats at East Bank Apartments. But that could set the stage for more to come on the Flats East Bank. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/01/29/first-of-two-flats-east-bank-performance-stages-unveiled/ Surprisingly no mention of FEB turning into a DORA, is this still in the works?
January 29, 20241 yr 1 minute ago, BoomerangCleRes said: Surprisingly no mention of FEB turning into a DORA, is this still in the works? Yes, Cleveland City Council has passed a resolution to consider a debate on a vote by Q1 2047.
January 29, 20241 yr Author 5 minutes ago, YABO713 said: Yes, Cleveland City Council has passed a resolution to consider a debate on a vote by Q1 2047. Um, 2047 ?? 😵 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 29, 20241 yr I don’t wanna sound like an old fart, or an erstwhile Cleveland.bomb commenter, but half a million dollars doesn’t go far these days! My hovercraft is full of eels
January 29, 20241 yr Author 21 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said: I don’t wanna sound like an old fart, or an erstwhile Cleveland.bomb commenter, but half a million dollars doesn’t go far these days! No, it certainly doesn't. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 30, 20241 yr 4 hours ago, KJP said: Um, 2047 ?? 😵 Crazy thing we are closer to 2047 than we are to 2000 😳
January 30, 20241 yr @KJPHi Ken, Does this stage look better in person? Based on the photos I'm getting vibes of this other Cleveland lakefront landmark.
January 30, 20241 yr Author @DO_Summers Don't know. Haven't seen it. BTW, thanks @Ethan for the nice photo of the stage. It was a lot better than what the PR firm or DCI provided! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 30, 20241 yr I can't tell you enough how cheap and tacky that stage looks. It is typical cheap Clevelnd design.
January 30, 20241 yr I'm getting some cool Oregon Trail vibes...this would be perfect for Pioneer at Intro!
January 31, 20241 yr 10 hours ago, newyorker said: I can't tell you enough how cheap and tacky that stage looks. It is typical cheap Clevelnd design. Yes, keep telling, because Cleveland is the only place in the world where questionable design happens. And questionable spelling.
January 31, 20241 yr The stage looks fine to me but they didn’t do themselves any favors by pushing it out to the press in the middle of winter. I wonder why they didn’t wait to do the press rollout with the dedication and featuring live music all at the same time.
January 31, 20241 yr 57 minutes ago, coneflower said: The stage looks fine to me but they didn’t do themselves any favors by pushing it out to the press in the middle of winter. I wonder why they didn’t wait to do the press rollout with the dedication and featuring live music all at the same time. It looks like it was also finished a while ago, probably about two months ago, so it's not like they did it right after it finished. I agree, the timing is interesting. Maybe they were just waiting for a slow news day?
January 31, 20241 yr Author 29 minutes ago, coneflower said: The stage looks fine to me but they didn’t do themselves any favors by pushing it out to the press in the middle of winter. I wonder why they didn’t wait to do the press rollout with the dedication and featuring live music all at the same time. The press release was issued on Monday but it and my article noted that: "The performance stage will be formally dedicated in the spring of 2024 at the onset of the Flats East Bank event season." "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 31, 20241 yr i think its great to have a little stage there fir pop up performances. perfect spot for one. as for the design, its fine. i dk that there are any significantly better designed small stages like that around? are there?? maybe, but i would doubt it. i didnt look too hard, but i didnt see much — ???
January 31, 20241 yr FEB stage looks a bit sleeker from other angles. These pics are from Downtown Cleveland, Inc's socials. Digging the Cuyahoga/Flats backdrop. Edited January 31, 20241 yr by Blimp City
January 31, 20241 yr It has occurred to me perusing this and other threads lately that we are clearly desperate for some big development news. 😉
January 31, 20241 yr 19 hours ago, newyorker said: I can't tell you enough how cheap and tacky that stage looks. It is typical cheap Clevelnd design. I guess I'm in the minority - but I don't hate it? I think it kind of blends with the tent at Nautica behind it too
January 31, 20241 yr Yeah I don't agree with the hate here. An outsider or someone visiting the flats doesn't walk by this and think "wow that stage is ugly!" as much as they probably think "Oh that's a cool little venue!" Its a fun concept that will liven up the flats even more than it already is. A net positive even if it's not perfect. Personally, I'm excited to see some live music out there!
March 15, 20241 yr Bobby’s mandrake and river garden project went back to the commission today, show very nice concepts also mentioned they were working with the metroparks around the idea of public access and that the metroparks will go forward with the over the river idea Edited March 15, 20241 yr by BoomerangCleRes
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