^there was some big news last week. The project is moving along quite nicely behind the scenes.

well ???  It is nice that you let us know periodically you are in the know and we are not  :roll: but you gotta give back some time!

well ???  It is nice that you let us know periodically you are in the know and we are not  :roll: but you gotta give back some time!

 

The info was and is in this thread people!!!

Oh I thought there was MORE info "behind the scenes" you know!

Oh I thought there was MORE info "behind the scenes" you know!

 

I got ya, and you're right, there probably is a lot more we don't know

I thought Wolstein's looking into buying a stake in Crocker Park and Bob Stark's unhappy reaction pretty interesting, I wonder if it has any implications downtown since the two of them are competing for the same stuff.

that FEB project is definitely moving forward and it WILL happen.  Wolstein and The City of Cleveland have already speant millions of dollars and is committed to millions more in bank debt.  This is one project that definitley is going to happen - the scale of it is the one thing that may change. 

^ Oh I agree. It better happen. I have a triple X nuddie bar about to break ground in my already successful community to make room for this nicer and newer neighborhood that is supposed to be good for me...

^ Oh I agree. It better happen. I have a triple X nuddie bar about to break ground in my already successful community to make room for this nicer and newer neighborhood that is supposed to be good for me...

 

Sad, but true. I feel your pain. I'm moving into my condo in a couple weeks :(

Welcome! We hope to meet you in the nabe some time!

A new Flats means big money - some of it yours

Posted by Tom Breckenridge October 28, 2007 16:23PM

Categories: Breaking News, Impact

 

On the Flats' east bank, developer Scott Wolstein wants to finish smashing much of the one-time party district to the ground, and build an elegant, riverside neighborhood in its place.

 

Our elected and business leaders say the $400 million project is critical to downtown's resurgence.

 

They anticipate a bustling magnet for new business, and a cool enclave for young professionals and baby boomers to put down their roots and wealth.

 

More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com

Thanks for posting the article Jpop.  It is chock full of new information and should help answer many of the questions recently raised in this thread (although I am sure it will generate scores more).

I'm sure we will!

Larger graphic of above:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/news/wide/flats1029.jpg

 

 

I'm excited there's progress on this thing.

 

And I hate to be critical, but does anyone else think it looks like a suburban strip mall so far?

 

And I hate to be critical, but does anyone else think it looks like a suburban strip mall so far?

 

the renderings? the torn down buildings? your mom? I'm confused....

I'm referring to the above renderings.

I'm excited there's progress on this thing.

 

And I hate to be critical, but does anyone else think it looks like a suburban strip mall so far?

 

A little bit.  I just want to feel like I'm downtown when I go there, not in Crocker Park.  That's why I am hoping the larger office buildings get built down there.  It will probably look a little bit like a Las Olas in Fort Lauderdaule than....Florida Guy?

I'm excited there's progress on this thing.

 

And I hate to be critical, but does anyone else think it looks like a suburban strip mall so far?

 

Don't worry, that's just a conceptual drawing to give an idea of massing. What's built won't look like that, I have it on authority from a good source!

I think you are talking about the Las Olas Riverfront development (not Las Olas Blvd). It is hard to tell from the graphic but I don't necessarily see "strip mall."

 

Well, that's what made me worry. The most recent graphic and the one Florida Guy just posted now look very different. And gotribe voiced a concern I had based on the new graphic. It didn't look very urban, and it certainly didn't echo the Flats' industrial past at all. Not sure if their plans are to do that at all, but it would be nice to see that because I feel like that's what has always made The Flats so unique.

Also gotribe, riverfront has very little or no office space and no residential.

The Riverfront in Ft. Lauderdale is nice, but I get the sense that this will be denser, and in some areas, taller. The Riverfront also seems, as Florida Guy pointed out, to be much more single-use than this project, and the design is pretty consistent throughout, whereas Wolstein's project is supposed to have a range of building types (and possibly a range of architects) to make it look more like a natural neighborhood and less like a single "project" (even though it is).

 

Can anyone tell me if there are any plans for inter-connectivity to the buildings to the south of this project? I'm sure there's some thought about this, but I'm not in the know, and the renderings always seem to focus tightly on the boundaries of the project. Without connectivity, to the rest of the bank to the south, and up the hill to the Warehouse District, it just seems a bit isolated to me.

^That's the way I look at it also.  The Las Olas Riverfront development to me is so appealing being that it's is basically at the terminus of a beautiful Las Olas Blvd which is lines with restaurants, stores and apartments.  To me so far, the FEB project looks more like a destination location aka Crocker Park than an urban developement aka Pesht.  I am not saying don't build it, but I am waiting for the new renderrings.  I am guessing the up-swing in the office market and the downswing in the housing market has drastically changed the plans. 

I'm excited there's progress on this thing.

 

And I hate to be critical, but does anyone else think it looks like a suburban strip mall so far?

 

edit: Blinker already beat me to it. 

 

The project now has some greater height to it than the skyscraper site's rendering.

They are seriously considering leveling riverfront and starting over with mixed-use. There are only about 10 businesses left in the entire complex.

I was impressed with the riverwalk itself, as well as the new public art installation on the nearby green (can't remember the name). But yeah, the retail did seem a little sparse ... it looked like the restaurants were the only ones doing very good business. Not to be critical, but the atmosphere seemed very mall-like to me.

^ Riverwalk

This is the latest and greatest rendering that I've seen:

 

Versus the old:

These rendering's are very preliminary and will probably morph into something quite different than what's been shown. I'm sure like Stark, Jacobs and the whole lot, they are waiting to see what office tenants they land, which could affect the whole mix of development. Wolstein seems very confident about landing an office tenant, unlike Stark.

 

I don't get why Wolstein is pushing the condo thing so hard if the apartments in the warehouse district almost have  have full occupancy. Another thing, the article really didn't say if he had complete control of the property he needs.

Developer Scott Wolstein has settled with the owner of the last piece of land needed for his project, according to Cuyahoga County Probate Judge John E. Corrigan.

 

Wolstein has agreed to pay $2.9 million to acquire most of a two-acre parcel, now used for parking by businessman James Kassouf, the judge said.

it still looks kind of like cracker park to me. I guess I cannot visualize very well. It is true it is going to be all chain or corporate owned businesses there and few or no indep businesses?

The article says it's going to be retail that will cater to commuter customers. What does he mean by that?

^As the article mentioned, there is apparently going to be very little in the way of general merchandising for various reasons so it will not be like Crocker Park in terms of national chain stores like the Gap, Banana Republic, Talbots etc.  Given the description of the retail, while it will not be your standard mall brands, it does not appear much of it will be local in nature (exception...a grocery store).

 

I do not see how we can really criticize or praise at this point.  I think everything out there right now is conceptual and is still evolving as suggestion by a number of posters above (Wolstein has said in the past he is using multiple architects).  I doubt that there is a completed design for even one building yet (and the site plan is still up in the air) although it seems that they are gettin close and we should be seeing "pretty pictures" soon.

Dont forget the Bernie Kosar restaurant. 

I guess that would be semi-local (flavor), even though there is one in Miami.

was the grocery store Heinen's?

 

 

^you are correct. I heard that you'll be able to order your groceries online.

it still looks kind of like cracker park to me.

 

I'll say it one more time, for those too (ahem) busy to read the previous page: These images are not designs, they're glorified massings. No architectural designs have been completed yet.

As for retail mix... There may be a few small merchandisers, but nothing on the order of a Gap or Sephora. From what I have heard they are planning to go after local merchants to give it a more authentic flavor.

Also, they talk about 'an iconic' residential building at the mouth of the river....I don't see that in the drawings available.  Obviously these are just massings and shouldn't be judged yet.

Dont forget the Bernie Kosar restaurant. 

Menu:

Sack lunch

Humble pie for dessert

^you are correct. I heard that you'll be able to order your groceries online.

suburban type question: will there be any parking?  I  love Heinens (I need fresh flowers!!) but hope it won't put a hurt on my sweet Daves

I'm pretty certain that there will be convenient short-term parking for the grocery store. I wonder if they will deliver groceries.

The music that's played in the store alone makes shopping at Dave's just a little more fun than anyother store.  Damn that's some jazzy sh!t.

Saw crews out today doing soil testing. Guess that's a sign of progress.

Per my source on the Port Authority board, Eaton is on board with Wolstein's project. It will be among "$5 billion worth of construction kicking off next year" and lasting for the next 4-5 yrs across NE Ohio; "the biggest building boom in this region in 25 years". That is all the info I have to share right now. Thank you.

That sounds good to me.  I really wish I had the balls to use a fake id in high school, since I heard so much about the great clubs and bars in the Flats.  But hey, I'll take residential too - anything's better than what we have now

That sounds good to me.  I really wish I had the balls to use a fake id in high school, since I heard so much about the great clubs and bars in the Flats.  But hey, I'll take residential too - anything's better than what we have now

 

Those summers in the late 80s were fun.  But now the East Bank, has turned a new chapter and hopefully this development will include a museum or exhibit, detailing the history of the area.

For me, it was the summers, falls, winters and springs in the Flats, from the mid-1980s (I turned 19 in 1986 and therefore old enough to drink beer legally) until about 2000 when the Flats took a turn for the worst. I'd love to write a book about it sometime and include the experiences of others.

I've got a couple of stories about the Marborol Man sign and Riverfest.

Those where the days...

(one day I will scan & post the rest of the set)