In my world, EVERYTHING is a double entendre! :laugh:

In my world, EVERYTHING is a double entendre! :laugh:

 

Honey are you drunk??  'cause you are really trippin' today!   :wink:

OK girls, but to quote the queen:  BACK ON TOPIC PLEASE!!

Ahem... that's MY line! But yes, indeed:

 

Seriously, can anyone think of an example that FEB/Eaton can strive to be like?

I never really paid attention, but does the Arena district in Cbus do a good job with offices mixed in?

I'm wracking my brain to remember a story I read a few years' back about a mid-sized company here in Ohio, instead of building a brand-new stand alone hq building on the outskirts of town ( I can't remember the town's name either), they bought several historic commercial bldgs in that towns CBD and rehabbed the upper floors for their offices and connected these to the other bldgs (these bldgs were next to each other; no skywalks). They then rehabbed the street-level storefronts in these bldgs and sought out retailers and the like for them. I'll be damned if I can remember the company or the town, but I vividly recall the CEO being quoted to the effect, 'we wanted to do something to preserve these historic bldgs and the life of downtown'. Did I jog anyone's memory with this?

I would think this would be an example of a "campus" we could all live with, albeit on a much larger scale. :clap:

Crown forklift, near Dayton

This is what I've had in mind for Scranton Peninsula for some time, but it appears quite relevant to this discussion: http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/1996/08/12/story1.html?t=printable

 

Adobe's Fremont campus is a good example of an office headquarters fitting large-scale economic development into a neighborhood, while at the same time maintaining and enhancing waterfront access.  I couldn't find any great photos, but you know how to do an image search, right?

Seriously, can anyone think of an example that FEB/Eaton can strive to be like?

I never really paid attention, but does the Arena district in Cbus do a good job with offices mixed in?

 

The Arena District isn't bad, but one that comes to mind is Connecticut Avenue, between K and M streets in Washington DC.

 

This isn't too bad, though its Sun-Belted exterior isn't appropriate for Cleveland:

 

 

Thisis an office building with restaurants on the ground floor, at Eton Collection in the Cleveland suburb of Woodmere:

 

 

More office buildings with ground-floor shops and cafes, plus pedestrian-friendly public spaces, in Crocker Park in the Cleveland suburb of Westlake:

 

 

 

 

Horrible examples:

 

A pretty but impersonal corporate fortress:

 

 

This is pretty neat looking, but doesn't do anything to encourage public interaction with this building, nor does is cause 24-hour (or at least 18-hour) activity and pedestrianism and therefore has limited use at any hour outside its walls:

 

 

These are all cold and impersonal:

 

http://www.gaaarchitects.com/missionridge.html (click "more office" to see the others)

mapboy, thanks for the tidbit about adobe in fremont.

 

i found an interesting article which discusses the adobe campus in fremont as well as the shift from corporations constructing skyscrapers to corp's building campuses/neighborhoods.

 

http://www.djc.com/news/ae/11127719.html

More here: http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=my-vert-web-top&va=fremont+adobe&sz=all&imtype=&imqualityall

 

Regarding the issue of a campus for EATON, I remember after 9/11 many were talking about the end of the skyscraper. Could this be influencing  the design of the Eaton expansion plans?

If they start designing corporate "neighborhoods" then I'm all for it.

I don't mind "campus"  if it's something along the lines of Borneo Sporenburg neighborhood in Amsterdam in terms of captivating design and planning aspect.

 

http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2006-21,RNWE:en&q=borneo+sporenburg&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

 

There's NO WAY someone could/would allow this to mimick Progressive's campus on the east side!  I have more faith than that!  I wish West 8 or some other "progressive" firm could be brought on to help push the envelope and really make this development and the centennial for Eaton something worth our while.

 

I really want to hold my breath and hope that "campus" can't be taken too literally!  Please God!

 

 

Regarding the issue of a campus for EATON, I remember after 9/11 many were talking about the end of the skyscraper. Could this be influencing  the design of the Eaton expansion plans?

I highly doubt that Eaton is building a campus because they are worried that terrorists will attack them if they build more virtically. 

The city CAN NOT let eaton just build a corporate campus that could fit into any suburb along the city's prime lakefront.  That just can't happen.  I'm with you... count me in if a suburban-like campus makes it past the planning commission.

 

I don't know if this was posted yet, but there are newer renderings of the Flats East Bank on Forum Architects website...

 

http://www.forumarc.com/portfolio/flatseastbank/feb1.html

 

will it make it past planning commission? My guess is yes, they made a maximum investment

 

http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/dcdev/forms/C00442483/319942/sa/ALL

 

we were talking about the business view from Eaton's perspective, but what about Wolstein's business prospective? I know Eaton carries a lot of weight, but Wolstein will stand to benefit if the "campus" is properly connected and integrated with his neighborhood (spin-off, residential, etc.)

do people lve in or next to office parks anywhere? Just askin'.

do people lve in or next to office parks anywhere? Just askin'.

do people lve in or next to office parks anywhere? Just askin'.

 

Century City in LA.

do people lve in or next to office parks anywhere? Just askin'.

 

My point being, is that maybe/hopefully Wolstein will try to avoid/steer them away from fortress/campus. And get it more integrated. Hell, BP is a giant vertical office park, public square is one, playhouse square, etc.

is that a good thing?

Pope raises a good point- Wolstein is the developing this, not Eaton.  Wolstein has to accommodate his big tenant but he also needs to make the space universally likable enough that he can fill it in X years when Eaton's lease ends and it decides it wants to move back to the CBD (like, when gas hits $9 a gallon and employees b!tch about having to switch from the Red or Silver Lines to the dinky WFL).

why is everyone complaining???? This is great for the city and if everyone is having coronaries over a "suburban like campus" then that means we need to get the Cleveland clinic out of the city and university hospitals, because there too much like suburban buildings. O yea i almost forgot we should move Applied Plaza out of the city too!! :whip:

Under California State law, any new developments near the water MUST allow for a significant amount of public access to the water.

 

Without a similar law on the books in Ohio or in the city, I will always be nervous that today, the city of Cleveland is merely allowing for more monumental mistakes that will haunt our waterfront for many decades.

 

I'm glad there are so many knowledgeable people on this forum who are vigilant and concerned about the lakefront. We have every right to be critical of any new plans, and that shouldn't be at all confused with negativity.

Regarding the issue of a campus for EATON, I remember after 9/11 many were talking about the end of the skyscraper. Could this be influencing  the design of the Eaton expansion plans?

 

Let's see - Bank of America, the New York Times, Hearst Publishing and a host of other high-profile corporations have built or are building new signature towers. I seriously doubt Eaton would subscribe to such tired alarmist idiocy.

^^Very well said.

 

And re. Adobe: that's a pretty good precedent (and a persuasive one too).  To see that campus in its context, check out: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=801+N+34th+St,+Seattle,+WA+98103,+USA&sa=X&oi=map&ct=image

 

I guess I've gotten over the whole "campus" part now a little bit.  Time to worry about the design (will RTKL and NBBJ be doing this part too?) and public accessibility issues now.  I'm still bothered by the location though.

why is everyone complaining???? This is great for the city and if everyone is having coronaries over a "suburban like campus" then that means we need to get the Cleveland clinic out of the city and university hospitals, because there too much like suburban buildings. O yea i almost forgot we should move Applied Plaza out of the city too!! :whip:

 

If we could keep all the jobs and (in the Clinic's case) prestige in town, I'd be happy to show all those crap buildings a new home in Twinsburg.

We're thrilled about Eaton's decision to stay here but they need to be responsible citizens to CLE AND NEO!

 

Similar idea but different scale with the club wanting to occupy Moda.  Sure it would have brought investment to the neighborhood but to the detriment of what? 

 

Really, I don't think Eaton's campus will be along the likes of something along 271.  People were saying it earlier but maybe Wolstein landed them into his project b/c of the "lifestyle center" feel to it.  Maybe they liked that.  Lord please do not let it look like Crocker Park but maybe they want more of an interaction with the street than sitting 700 feet in the air?  We'll see...

I guess I've gotten over the whole "campus" part now a little bit.  Time to worry about the design (will RTKL and NBBJ be doing this part too?) and public accessibility issues now.  I'm still bothered by the location though.

 

FYI, NBBJ did Adobe's campus, so they have experience in this capacity.

Adobe's campus takes some cues from New Urbanism design principals, but it is still a fairly bland, self contained, single use complex.  I wouldn't consider it an aesthetic or placemaking victory for our downtown, though it beats the hell out of anything along 271.

I made this doodling of a setting for the Eaton corporate neighborhood. The rest of the street grid can be filled in using new urbanist principles as suggested in Cleveland's Lakefront Masterplan as well as in Stark's vision for Pesht. This would be just a starting point...

 

Scroll right to see the whole thing ---->

 

Who knows. Someone at Eaton might even like it!

Then why is everyone ready to jump off a ledge before we see any renderings?

 

by the time renderings are out it will be too late

 

and the most ridiculous part of it is probably them asking for the waterfront line (or "a bunch of crappy rails") to be moved. too bad the port/city council/city planning are spineless. money talks i guess.....

 

 

re: the adobe building in seattle........that isnt their HQ and the building is not in the CBD, its in a regular neighborhood. adobe's HQ is in san jose and looks like this

 

 

just look at walmart's or microsoft...this is what we should expect

 

walmart and M$ HQ are not located in the CBD of a major city. why should we expect that in downtown cleveland?

 

 

We're ready to jump off a ledge because of Cleveland's track record.

 

yep

 

lets face it......we all know what they mean by "campus styel" and it sure aint a building built in an urban context up to the street

 

 

the lakefront is a valuable asset to this whole region and if 1 corporation wants to screw it up our kids and future generations will have to live with the consequences

 

and the most ridiculous part of it is probably them asking for the waterfront line (or "a bunch of crappy rails") to be moved. too bad the port/city council/city planning are spineless. money talks i guess.....

 

These "crappy rails" would directly serve Eaton's property with it's own station.

 

Have there been any letters to the editor (PD) or letters to Eaton sent by anyone on this board with these concerns?  We do a great job of backing our complaints to each other, but we need to get these complaints and explanations out to the general public.  I am guilty of not being the squeaky wheel on this topic, but I have on others.  I too hope this doesn't turn out to be a "Progressive" type campus.

On the back page of the business section on friday they posted comments from cleveland.com discussion (w28th was on it as the opening comment).  Some decent remarks, but I'd like to see Steven Litt get into the action either on his blog or a full story.

From the Plain Dealer

 

Law firm will move to planned Flats office building

Posted by Michelle Jarboe February 11, 2008 14:21PM

Categories: Breaking News, Real estate

 

Law firm Tucker Ellis & West LLP will be an anchor tenant in what could be downtown's first new top-shelf office building in more than a decade.

The Cleveland-based law firm confirmed Monday that it will move its downtown offices from the Huntington building to a new office tower in developer Scott Wolstein's project along the east bank of the Flats. The move will take place in 2011.

 

More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com

$500,000,000.00?!?

 

I remember when it was $170 million

Wow!

 

And, just last week, Wolstein's FEB was a $400 million project.

I just wish Stark, would get some of this. The list is getting short.

Me, too. This is what happens when you drag your feet, though.

Explain, please?

I dunno. I'm just talking out of my ass, to be honest.

 

I think Stark is still need more time to amass his properties, whereas Wolstein is more ready to go than Stark, giving him a leg up on his project. Stark basically threw a hissyfit with Wolstein luring these big tenants over to his project, but that's the name of the competition game, I say.

20 story tower on that lot sounds intriguing to me.  It will be interesting to see how it will be designed with the shoreway bridge immediately abutting where it is going to go up.  I also like putting some height on the hill going up to the warehouse district..... I did not realize the FEB would be going east of W 10th.  Should be real popular with law firms considering its proximity to the courthouse.

Was this the site originally proposed for the Lighthouse Landing residential tower? I am real glad to hear that this site is being developed because I feel the FEB project will now be more connected with the WHD. Previously I felt that this project would be an island separated from the rest of downtown.

So, how long before the Huntington Building gets converted to residential?  Just kidding.  I think.

 

Question for you downtown residents: at what hours does garbage collection occur for office buildings in Cleveland?

Pretty much whenever I am trying to sleep.  It varies, but mostly it's late night.

Was this the site originally proposed for the Lighthouse Landing residential tower? 

 

I think it is.  I think there was always talk of a residential tower or two at Lighthouse Landing and that one of the towers could be a hotel or office space.  Given the stagnating nature of RE in town, right now, it's not surprising that office space is winning.  At least there's positive movement at FEB.  There's now a feeding frenzy among major commercial tenants.

Was this the site originally proposed for the Lighthouse Landing residential tower?

 

Yes.

 

20 story tower on that lot sounds intriguing to me.  It will be interesting to see how it will be designed with the shoreway bridge immediately abutting where it is going to go up. 

 

See the renderings of Lighthouse Landing and discussion posted at:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,7120.120.html

 

Ah, screw it. Here's the rendering of what were the two residential towers proposed for Lighthouse Landing, one 18 stories tall and the other 22:

 

 

Question for you downtown residents: at what hours does garbage collection occur for office buildings in Cleveland?

 

I'm not aware of private contactors having to comform to garbage pickup hours downtown.

I was under the impression that Lighthouse Landing was supposed to line the other (north) side of Front Street.  If anything I thought that the proposed site for the Eaton "campus" was going to throw a monkey wrench.  It is hard to tell by the drawings KJP has posted above.... but the north of Front Street concept is clearly contemplated by the rendering MayDay provided here - http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=97396

 

Edit - come to think about it, it appears that these are not the same projects.

 

I just think it is funny to think that Wolstein was talking about the project and described it as something similiar to Shaker Square or Little Italy. I don't recall any Fortune 500 companies in either of those neighborhoods.