And an update of the demo progress:

 

I know it's for the greater good, but it's still sad.  RIP historic Flats.

^ agree

Yeah, I am somewhat suprised that these buildings are getting demoed as if they have no historical significance.  I am suprised that there are not people ou there forcinf re use of some of the buildings.  I understand the significance of this wonderful developement and the consequences of it, however, not every Clevelander has an Urban Ohio account (a.k.a development dork).

That is completely believable.  I have stated before the same thing about the movie theatre.  I worry about anything being oversized in this develoment (bookstore, theatre etc) for the fear that it may not work out.  It is so hard to fill a large movie theatre or bookstore space that was custom built for that particular intention.  Smaller retail tenants and outlots can be filled much more easily than large places. 

 

I disagree, please provide backup.

I think people will always want a theatre experience...

 

Agreed.  You can buy all the liquor and food you want at your local grocery store, yet bars and restaurants continue to be a booming business.  People like to go out.

Other thought - is it possible to have a movie theatre that shows BOTH indie films and mainstream stuff?  Can those co-exist in peace?

 

Shaker Square Cinemas

 

EDIT: By the way...prostatots...hilarious. :)

That is completely believable.  I have stated before the same thing about the movie theatre.  I worry about anything being oversized in this develoment (bookstore, theatre etc) for the fear that it may not work out.  It is so hard to fill a large movie theatre or bookstore space that was custom built for that particular intention.  Smaller retail tenants and outlots can be filled much more easily than large places. 

 

I disagree, please provide backup.

 

I can understand bookstores but if you're saying large movie theaters are prime for adaptive reuse with all of the walls and stadium seating that would have to be cleared out, not to mention their often times awkward location then you should be the one providing backup.

 

^And doing that backup in a separate thread about adaptive re-use for cinemas, thankyouverymuch. :-)

Not to take us off-topic again (sorry Mayday!) but the evidence doesn't support that bookstores are going under.  Barnes & Noble's sales at its bricks-and-mortar stores were up a couple % in 2007 and have increased each of the last several years.  Not to say they're blowing the doors off with that kind of growth and I still agree with the general premise that  they're facing pressure from iTunes, Amazon, et. al., but the death of the bricks-and-mortar bookstore has been greatly exaggerated ever since Amazon launched.

There is always Ridge Park Square cinema like lewarctj said for the Old Brooklyn peeps. $4.25 a ticket during the weekday, they also have $4.00 Tuesdays and free popcorn, as well as offering student and senior discounts. It does well also on most days I'm there, however when the movie theater opens up in the flats I will probably go there from time to time just to be in a different environment, especially since I love being downtown and spend any free time I have already down there, as well as having other events in the area and good restaurants.

And an update of the demo progress:

 

 

Before:

 

After:

 

 

Before:

]

 

After:

 

 

Nice!  Jar3232 and I rode down last week and walked around inside the vacant Spinnakers and some of the other places that were wide open.  I took a bunch of shots, and will try to post them tomorrow morning.

i'm not exactly a fan of new bookstores. would be enthused to see something akin to powells in portland. i wonder about the potential of opening up a small branch of cleve public library within the east bank project.  anyone know of an example where a bookstore and library share space?  seems to make sense as many people just want to browse...

similarly, i wonder about the potential of one of cleveland's large used book stores (zubals on w25 and the one on euclid) being motivated to open a small store next to or within a new CPL  branch location.

maybe a bookstore dedicated to urbanism and architecture?  this niche which would likely make use of many of the 'antique' books available at the aforementioned cleveland used book stores. chicago has an architecture/urban design book store either within the loop of just outside it.

 

of these ideas, i'd be most curious to know if there are any examples of a bookstore sharing space with a library.

 

maybe a bookstore dedicated to urbanism and architecture? 

 

 

Seriously?

Prairie Avenue Bookstore on South Wabash--huge store but pricey!  Go a few block south to Powells and find nice selection of architecture/planning books for a fraction of the cost at Prairie!  Oh, and stop by the chocolatier next door for truffles and gelato!  MMM!

of these ideas, i'd be most curious to know if there are any examples of a bookstore sharing space with a library.

 

When I lived in Cuyahoga Falls, the Summit County Library had a temporary location in an old big box store while the new downtown location was being completely expanded and renovated.  Near the entrance they had a small bookstore that sold used library books, it wasn't always open though.  I don't know if they kept this feature in the new location, but I thought it was a smart idea, most libraries do a sale a few times a year, why not just sell the books year-round, unless staffing is a consideration.

 

Nice!  Jar3232 and I rode down last week and walked around inside the vacant Spinnakers and some of the other places that were wide open.  I took a bunch of shots, and will try to post them tomorrow morning.

 

Here are some shots from inside the old Spinnaker's and more shots from the FEB: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,16249.new.html#new

Developers build on trend as tenant interest grows

New projects have eco-friendly components

 

By STAN BULLARD

Crain's

 

4:30 am, May 26, 2008

 

 

 

Multiple buildings in the proposed Flats East Bank Neighborhood mixed-use project will have green roofs. Contractors tearing down existing buildings to clear the Old River Road site for the project are required to recycle at least half the debris, from steel to bricks, to keep it from going into landfills.

 

At the Idea Center, the multimillion-dollar home for tech companies and the ideastream WCPN and WVIZ public broadcasting stations at 1375 Euclid Ave. in Cleveland's Theater District, the roof is white to reduce cooling costs in the summer.

 

 

More at http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20080526/SUB1/718288372

 

Was on the rapid today and went by the Flats (also hitting up Shooters tomorrow night if any UO'ers want to party hard).  It's amazing how much demolition and bulldozing they've done since I was last there on Memorial weekend.  Nothing but rubble after you get past beachcombers (i think that's the one)

Speaking of Shooters, this is why I feel the FEB project can be so successful.  I mean, what is Shooters, really?  The place isn't that great, the food is OK, drinks can be found cheaper elsewhere.  But its still packed every weekend.  Why?  It sits on the river and has a sweet patio (and you can pull your boat up there).

 

Create a neighborhood where people will always be around, keep it safe, and people will come almost regardless of what's there just to be on the water.

^ That's true with most bars though, location is a key driver with bars.  It is easily accessible to its target market/s.  Think about the WHD, I go to bars there because I know that if the bar I am at is lame that night, I can walk less than 20 yards and be at another similar bar, with a potentially better crowd.

Speaking of Shooters, this is why I feel the FEB project can be so successful.  I mean, what is Shooters, really?  The place isn't that great, the food is OK, drinks can be found cheaper elsewhere.

 

Haha, you hit the nail on the head.  I take people to Shooters everytime I visit.  There is nothing quite like that atmosphere that I have seen....the pleasure boats, freighters, bridges working, sun going down, river, lake....you can't beat it on a nice summer happy hour evening!  The food/crowd/music...etc is totally forgetable.

The atmosphere is the same at the original Shooters here in Fort Lauderdale. It's been going strong for 26 years and counting.

The atmosphere is the same at the original Shooters here in Fort Lauderdale. It's been going strong for 26 years and counting.

 

I was at the shooters this winter and wondered if there was a connection... are there more than FLL and Cleveland?

The Cleveland location opened as the "sister" restaurant to Fort Lauderdale's Shooters. At the same time they also opened one in Buffalo. Shortly thereafter they opened one in North Miami Beach bringing the total to 4. Buffalo only lasted a few years and North Miami Beach closed sometime in the 90's. Cleveland and FTL are the only remaining although I don't think they are affiliated anymore.

I think there was one at Toledo Portside for a minute too

Yep. I forgot about that one, it wasn't open very long.

I believe there was also a Shooter's in Sandusky at the Radisson (now Castaway Bay) at the entrance to Cedar Point Causeway; now it's a TGIFriday's.

there was (is?) a Shooters on the river in Ft. Myers, FL. I always found it an odd twist of fate I am again living in a condo by the river, by Shooters.

 

I have been to the one in Ft. Lauderdale as well. All of them are huge party places on decks by the river/intercostal, with skunky beer. What is up with that?

As a teenager I had visited Ft. Lauderdale many times in my childhood and I was already familiar with Shooters when it opened in Cleveland. It was an exact replica of Ft. Lauderdale’s with a swimming pool and live palm trees to boot.

 

My friends and I made the drive up to Cleveland from Youngstown during the opening weekend in 1987. At that time there were three as I remember reading from the menu; FTL, Buffalo (at the time coming soon), and Cleveland.

 

From there it opened and failed quite quickly in Toledo. There were also several locations that opened later in FL; N. Miami/Ft Myers (TY Peabody) and one or two others that have since closed (other than the aforementioned).

 

I remember seeing what looked like the Shooters trademark lamp posts at Cedar Point the last time I was there in 1997. My guess is that if it was there it didn’t last long.

 

there was (is?) a Shooters on the river in Ft. Myers, FL. I always found it an odd twist of fate I am again living in a condo by the river, by Shooters.

 

I have been to the one in Ft. Lauderdale as well. All of them are huge party places on decks by the river/intercostal, with skunky beer. What is up with that?

 

Scroll up to shs96's post for the answer. Anyway we are on the opposite side of the banks and that was nearly 20 years ago. Back to FEB!

when did shooters move to the Flats East Bank???  :roll:

why not just sell the books year-round, unless staffing is a consideration.

 

staffing is always a consideration.  but the cpl has a used book store in the louis stokes wing last I checked.  go in the front door and look left. 

A piece of advice for fellow adventureres, picture takers, historians, and city geeks - do not trespass on this property unless you like the s#$% scared out of you...

 

Last night around 8:30 I was wandering through the demo'd site and really just marvelling at it all when a half-dozen cop cars, two undercover vehicles, two undercover joggers, and four guns pulled came on me :)  After about 30 seconds, one of them said "he's not the one, let him go"

 

And so I went.  Obviously they were looking for someone (probably stealing materials or something else illegal), but I would just not suggest it at this point...take pictures from a distance...

If it were MayDay, he'd just start taking pictures of the whole scene and post it on the site.

 

And that would make my morning

 

Quick quesition: are they demolishing all the East Bank (still some empty buildings by the rapid stop)?

^Just the buildings north of the Main Avenue bridge. And no, I wouldn't take photos of being accosted by the po-po. Why do you think my camera has a 12x lens? :-D

A piece of advice for fellow adventureres, picture takers, historians, and city geeks - do not trespass on this property unless you like the s#$% scared out of you...

 

Last night around 8:30 I was wandering through the demo'd site and really just marvelling at it all when a half-dozen cop cars, two undercover vehicles, two undercover joggers, and four guns pulled came on me :)  After about 30 seconds, one of them said "he's not the one, let him go"

 

And so I went.  Obviously they were looking for someone (probably stealing materials or something else illegal), but I would just not suggest it at this point...take pictures from a distance...

 

holy crap, I definitely would have soiled myself...wolstein must have round-the-clock surveillance going....what si there to steal down there now, everything is rubble I thought

 

 

^That rubble is still private property and is ON private property (at least while it's a construction site).

^ Exactly.  And I went in knowing that they could've come to me and asked me to leave, but the intensity threw me for a loop.

^Don't sweat it, I went past the construction fence to get some photos a while ago. Luckily I didn't get throttled by the vice squad like you did! ;-)

FEB used to be on my walking list since I have lived here. I could go alone and always see at least a few walkers or joggers. I think I posted this a few months ago, but last I time I went, I got strait out willies. So the next time, I took spouse with. And when the TWO of us got creeped out, I was done. Before the demo, there were people lurking in the buildings down there and then in the ruins. Sounds like they are keeping a good eye on it now. My insides would have emptied if that happened to me.

And so I went.  Obviously they were looking for someone (probably stealing materials or something else illegal), but I would just not suggest it at this point...take pictures from a distance...

 

You don't get that kind of turnout from the Cleveland police unless they're looking for a rape suspect, an accused murderer or a drug kingpin who just fled from custody. If someone was stealing materials, a one-person patrol car might show up a few days later to take a report for insurance purposes.

And so I went.  Obviously they were looking for someone (probably stealing materials or something else illegal), but I would just not suggest it at this point...take pictures from a distance...

 

You don't get that kind of turnout from the Cleveland police unless they're looking for a rape suspect, an accused murderer or a drug kingpin who just fled from custody. If someone was stealing materials, a one-person patrol car might show up a few days later to take a report for insurance purposes.

 

I'd also guess if someone was stealing materials, a private security force would be monitoring the area.

there is a private security force- they are are going around the loop continuously. I agree there is probably more to it. PD stretched too thin to respond to *nerd tresspasser

 

* not that you are a nerd, but I am just sayin'

Probably a sting operation of sorts.....  My dad got mistakenly arrested in one in STL once - the whole debacle was quite humorous.  I could imagine that with things being so "out of sight" so to speak down there right now, it'd be a perfect place for some sort of illegal something or other that someone got a tip for :)

I could see police patrolling the streets to catch people stealing scrap.  Anymore, wrecking crews bid on projects based on how much they will pay to do the project.  For instance, say B&B wrecking wants to do the job, they will offer to pay Wolstien maybe $50,000 to demo the structures.  Wrecking crews keep all the material they demo, stage and stockpile it in accordance with material type, and scrap it.  A project of this scale from start to finish probably has over 2 million dollars worth of scrap.  Therefore, anything that is stolen, especially copper, is taking from the contractors pay.  Therefore, if it costs B&B a few hundred a night to hire patrolling officers, it is well worth it.

www.flatseast.com       

 

Anyone seen this yet?

^It doesn't really offer any new information, but it's the first I've seen of it.  Thanks for posting it, urbanmyth.  And welcome to the forum!

This is the 1st actual website I've seen on the project as a whole (as opposed to, say, Fairmount's rendering of the one high rise)... I think this information is very specific and should answer a lot of questions...

 

... except one:  what's the status on the potential Eaton building/campus?  Won't a decision have to be made soon as construction isn't far off as demo work is nearing completion?  Plus, if the WFL rapid loop is to be expanded, that construction must be worked out, too.

 

I noticed that the website states that there will only be 525,000 sf of office space as opposed to the nearly 1 million that had been proposed with the Eaton hq.  I know this could easily be changed the minute that Eaton signs on, but it did catch my eye. 

To my understanding, nothing is official with Eaton but you can see the rendering of its proposed "campus" there on the website.

To my understanding, nothing is official with Eaton but you can see the rendering of its proposed "campus" there on the website.

 

From my understanding, things are far from official with Eaton.