Okay, don't jump on my back about this, but I heard from someone over the weekend that even though demolition has happened, this project isn't guaranteed because the all of the money hasn't come through yet.

 

Now, I don't buy it.  I have no reason to believe this person is credible at all, but she works at a law firm downtown and is a member of the city club, and she allegedly "knows" people that know Wolstein, so, it made me pause.

 

Tell me it's guaranteed and that this girl is an idiot.  Please.

Okay, don't jump on my back about this, but I heard from someone over the weekend that even though demolition has happened, this project isn't guaranteed because the all of the money hasn't come through yet.

 

Now, I don't buy it.  I have no reason to believe this person is credible at all, but she works at a law firm downtown and is a member of the city club, and she allegedly "knows" people that know Wolstein, so, it made me pause.

 

Tell me it's guaranteed and that this girl is an idiot.  Please.

 

I guess technically it's not "guaranteed", as she's right... they do not have financing / loans in hand.  But it's also more of a technicality.  They have enough tennants signed on for financing.  It's just a very complicated deal with a lot of moving parts... and a lot of banks.  I've heard from some pretty high ups in the city that aren't particuarly concerned.

 

EDIT:  By the way I would like to add, that it's not uncommon to not have your financing secured yet when you are still weeks away from commencing construction.

Kind of reminds me of K&D's loan for 668. 

^Exactly... and pretty much any other large scale job.  The loan probably won't be secured until days they before they kick off.

I think it's fair to address the rumors, but next time someone totes being a member of the city club as part of their credentials... remind them that anyone with $140 can be a member of the city club.  My sources are an attorney who is working on the deal and someone in the city who is intimately involved in the project, and I haven't heard the slightest bit of pessimism from either of them.  Actually quite the opposite.

Okay, don't jump on my back about this

I hate rumors. 

Now, what's the reason for your post?  :roll:

Thanks for not jumping on my back.

 

I asked, so I could dispel the rumor.  This isn't a place to generate rumors, but it is a place to eliminate rumors with facts, no? 

I think it's fair to address the rumors, but next time someone totes being a member of the city club as part of their credentials... remind them that anyone with $140 can be a member of the city club.  My sources are an attorney who is working on the deal and someone in the city who is intimately involved in the project, and I haven't heard the slightest bit of pessimism from either of them.  Actually quite the opposite.

 

I should clarify that she didn't use that credential when talking to me about Wolstein.  That fact came up afterwards, and I just figured she might know what she was talking about. 

 

I didn't want buy into it, so I thought I'd ask here, because I know there are people here that are actually connected to the project.

 

Someone mentioned upthread that almost all demolition was finished.  Does that mean Spinnakers is staying?

Lets go over to the off topic thread and carry this out.

 

I would say Ipsilon, that FEB is pretty much a 90% chance a go.  There has been a lot of money invested thus far, and I do not think that would have been done had they not been sure.  Thanks to you and McCleveland, we learned something new today about the financing.

Someone mentioned upthread that almost all demolition was finished.  Does that mean Spinnakers is staying?

Good job at turning things around there Ipsilon. I am wondering the same thing, that place is an eyesore.

Ipsilon posted a rumor hoping to get it debunked (or clarified or confirmed). It was pretty clear (to me anyway!) from his message that it was his purpose to get it debunked.

 

But if you post rumors as fact, THEN that's a no-no. Don't jump on people when they're seeking help from this board about rumors.

 

If you want to debate what consitutes a posted rumor vs. a question vs. a panic-stricken cry for information, take it over to Urbanbar.

I think Ipsilon's post is more than fair.  If anyone thinks banks aren't reconsidering their development commitments, your sadly mistaken.  Banks are running out of sources to replenish capital as institutional investors have gotten smoked.  Banks, big to small, are still bleeding and trying to ratchet down leverage.

 

Regarding FEB, I don't know if they have loan commitments or not.  If they do , bankers may be itching for one loan covenant violation to call their commitment.  If they do not, Wolstein shouldn't be surprised to find banks looking for a personal guarantee.  Developers loathe this but banks are licking their wounds.

 

Just my opinion.

I have heard rumors too-even last year. With many projects nationwide being stalled it is hardly shocking that people in the know (and not in the know) would be talking/wondering/speculating. I guess people think that asking a question(which it clearly was)  on a message board will somehow kill the project.

 

 

You are more than welcome to post your concerns about this forum. But please post them in the proper section/thread. The appropriate place for airing these concerns is in the forum input section....

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/board,10.0.html

Ahoy there.  Last night I had the pleasure of a glorious dinner-sunset-fireworks cruise on the Nautica Queen.  The announcer/tour guide stated that construction was to start on the FEB project within two months.  Hopefully, he was correct.  Looking at the desolate east bank from the river made me hope that the Spinnakers building, if it remains, and the mostly abandoned venues south of the FEB project will receive a shot in the arm* from the new construction.  It was a bit sad to remember the life** that area enjoyed in the 90's.  May it rise from the ashes into something greater!

 

* Not necessarily as bars. 

**PS one good sign, Shooters on the west bank was packed to the gills.

I'm not sure but possibly Spinnakers is part of phase II, the 20 something story building near the river? I remember that Spinnakers owner was holding out and at one point announced a re-opening. This has to be part of the development site one way or another.

 

http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=50219

 

I'm actually not worried about the financing. They already have a few major tenants in their back pocket, that sure will help.

MTS and I hashed out our issues over PM and everything is fine now.  I appreciate the support, but I think jumping on him like this is a bit of overkill, based on the initial incident.

 

Florida Guy, I agree with you.  I'm not worried, either.  This is going to happen and it's going to be great.

 

Fagan's is going to re-open?  Cool.

Glad to hear you two have resolved things. MTS, you're not a Mod, and it's not your duty to police the threads as such - if something is questionable, use the "Report to Moderator" option. Let's keep this thread on topic folks, and in case you see a post missing:

 

 

 

if anyone gets the inclination -- could we get some pics of the demos/desolation/activity around the east bank these days? thx

It's on my list of things to do this weekend.

^ cool!

 

Not exactly current but from July 2nd

 

 

 

 

 

save those pictures for 18 months from now when we can do some before and after shots

current enough!

 

Jeepers, thanks.

While on the topic of Spinnakers...

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Cleveland receives nearly $770,000 in federal funds for Flats Eastbank Project

 

Posted By:      3 hrs ago

 

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- U.S. Senator Sherrod Brown today announced that $767, 193 has been awarded to the City of Cleveland and will be used for the construction phase of the Flats Eastbank Project.

 

© 2008 WKYC-TV

 

http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_article.aspx?storyid=92779&catid=3

those Spinnaker photos have been posted before

That above article is way off.  A $170 million dollar project?  It's well over $500 million right now.

It's great to see that they really spent a lot of time researching the facts.  :roll:

And no longer is the site housing abandon buildings...also, I believe it's East Bank. 

FOX8 said $230 million or something.  Sounds like everyone's got a different number.

those feb shots have freaked me out. wow. talk about your tabla rasa. there it is.

 

here's hoping those desolate views go away fast.

 

The $170-230 million might be just for the first phase of the project. Not all the buildings in the site plan will be built at once.

I always understood that the project would be built all at once sans two possible buildings on the riverfront that might be added in the future.  The latest numbers were in excess of $500 million.  The 170-230 figures seem to line up with ORIGNINAL projections when the concept was first announced.  With rising construction costs and the high-end character of the project, I would not be suprised if the final numbers were more in the $700 million range.

wait a sec -- isn't almost all of it going to be built at once? i recall there was a tower on the northside by the river that was conceptual, but i thought all the rest was a go. no? i cant imagine only a few buildings would get built and then delays with these blasted out crumbly blocks all around.

Last I checked, most of it was to be finished by the end of 2010.  Check this photo out:

 

 

From what I read (and this was back in April), all of the white buildings in the rendering above were to be completed at the same time.  The red buildings are coming later.  And, of course, Eaton's still up in the air.

 

Maybe those future parts are what put it up to half-a-billion, and the numbers we're hearing right now are just for those white buildings.

 

EDIT: Photo is from the Plain Dealer.

2 things:

 

1)A Project Labor Agreement has been tentatively reached between the Building Trades and the developers; and.....

 

2)The Port will be authorizing @$200 million in bonds for this project; it should be official sometime next week.

 

To answer the rumors and whatnot upthread, this project is GO!

Thought this is cool. At the lobby for Tucker Ellis (Huntington Bldg) there is a huge blowup of the Flats East Bank plan with an arrow pointing to "The new home of Tucker Ellis."

 

 

Awesome news, jonmoxon and surfohio! Is the blowup in the Huntington Building anything we haven't seen already?

guess the sky isn't falling after all... :roll:

yeah awesome news -- this is what the internets is good at.

 

so what is more go? flats east bank....or thunderbirds?  :laugh:

 

 

 

Your are so wierd mrnyc...but I love your photo threads.

Thunderbirds.

Brown Announces Nearly $700,000 for City of Cleveland

Federal Funds to be Used for Construction Phase of Flats Eastbank Project

http://brown.senate.gov/newsroom/press_releases/release/?id=85074613-fb93-4aab-bd0e-e62997a05d5a

 

So, I'm not one to usually reminisce about the "good old days" of the Flats--by the time I was of age it's hey day had already past--but I just had to share this story:

 

I'm out in Big Sky, Montana at the moment for a nice long-weekend getaway.  For those who don't know, Big Sky is about 40 miles south of Bozeman, and is the largest ski resort in the United States, and only second to Whistler-Blackcomb in North America.  At any rate, it's a bit quiet in the summer and a nice place to just get away from it all. 

 

Anyway, I'm sitting at the bar in my hotel (the Summit at Big Sky) and got to talking with the local-cum-cowboy sitting next to me at the bar. Think hat, boots, and darn near chaps.  As it turns out, he owns a small ranch here and offers horseback expeditions for tourists.  BUT, here's the funny part: When I mention that I'm from Cleveland, he responds with "The Flats, eh?"  Turns out he's spent his fair share of time partying in the Flats, complete with cowboy hat and boots.  Apparently he had fun one night when a group of girls mistook him for Brad Paisley...he considered correcting them, but figured (correctly) that he'd have a lot more fun if he just let them believe he was a country superstar.

 

I didn't have the heart to break it to him that the Flats as he knew it were gone, but I think its fair to say that whatever comes of this newest vision for the Flats, lets hope it'll have cowboys in Southern Montana talking just as Jim was tonight.

Only half of the old Flats is gone.

 

But still a nice tale there, pardner'.  :wink2:

Awesome news, jonmoxon and surfohio! Is the blowup in the Huntington Building anything we haven't seen already?

 

Nope, it's the depiction I've seen here on this site months ago!!!

I took the rapid through the Flats on Friday and saw at least a dozen bulldozers/like machines working hard. 

 

That's all I have to report.

 

 

I took some photos on Saturday; I just have to organize them.  Bear with me. :)

Here's something fun...

 

Before:

 

After:

 

More photos to follow this evening.

Excellent juxtaposition