Everything up to the bridge will be gone, including the street.

Update from Crain's

 

Wolstein's Flats plan moves forward  :clap:

 

By STAN BULLARD

 

2:56 pm, September 27, 2005

 

Legislation to make a reality of developer Scott Wolstein's $230 million plan to redevelop Old River Road north of Main Avenue is pending before Cleveland City Council.

 

Mr. Wolstein this morning briefed council's Economic and Community Development Committee on five pieces of legislation the development needs to proceed. The package includes measures authorizing the city to provide two tax increment financing (TIF) packages for the project.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050927/FREE/50927006/1004/newsletter01

time to re-name this thread???

 

this was buzzed about during the first day of the "Learning from the Dutch" symposium at CSU yesterday...

 

Battery Park broke ground, the Avenue District will follow in the spring and perhaps this as well???

Hmm..

 

this article mentions 400 residential units.  With such a large footprint, I am glad to see an increased residential total. 

 

Let's hope Council passes this quickly.

MGD,

 

What I love is how it started out as a $170 million project and it now stands at $230 million.

I think that may include the public investment and rising costs of materials...  but yeah, numbers like that should mean a great product!

Flats plan on approval fast track

Wolstein scurries for city’s OK so he can beat rising interest rates

 

By STAN BULLARD

 

6:00 am, October 3, 2005

 

 

 

Scott Wolstein and supporters of his $230 million plan to remake the East Bank of the Flats are seeking rapid Cleveland City Council approval of legislation to move the project forward, but the developer maintains his need for speed is driven more by interest rate hikes out of Washington than political considerations at home.

 

More at crainscleveland.com http://www.crainscleveland.com

 

In the process of pursuing the project, Mr. Wolstein said he is seeing a new attitude emerge in Cleveland government. It’s vastly different from the adversarial environment a decade ago that prompted the family to shelve the project.

 

“I’ve been blown away by the cooperation we’ve received,” Mr. Wolstein said.

 

Thats a powerful statement.  I hope other developers feel the same way.

Whether or not we're seeing all these projects coming on line at the same time is politically driven (re-election) or not, the fact is that they're signing contracts and breaking ground.  These are bigger than anything in recent history that involves such a mixture of uses in the city proper and I think that's a great sign!

Without a doubt, the re-election campaign is a factor.  However, it seems to me that a lot of business has been taken care of since Chris Ronayne was hired. That is only my sense from afar...but what does everyone else think?

I noticed that they've stopped mentioning the potential book-store that had previously been linked to the project (both In Crain's and in this month's article on Wolstein in Cleveland Magazine).  I wonder, are they having trouble attracting a bookseller to the Flats, or are they omitting it for purposes of brevity?  Hopefully the latter, it's a real shame that we don't have a major bookstore in Cleveland proper.  In fact, it is an amenity that would cause me to seriously consider a neighborhood.  I am embarrassed that I have to drive all the way to Westlake to get to a Border's or Barnes and Noble. 

 

Considering the fact that Border's and B & N are already in Westlake, perhaps Joseph Beth could wind up in the Flats.  I remember reading a while back that they were trying to attract a major bookstore to the abandoned church on 117th and Lake, I wonder if it's possible for both Edgewater and the Flats to get a major chain to sign up.

 

Sooner, I agree that the Campbell administration has been much improved since Ronayne's promotion.  Enough in fact, for her to receive a second term, IMO.   

^That's a good subject for a news article -- especially now that I'm covering Cleveland / downtown / City Hall for Sun Newspapers!

 

KJP

the Campbell administration has been much improved since Ronayne's promotion.  Enough in fact, for her to receive a second term

 

I agree!  And I've heard the same expressed from a number of Cleveland voters in my little circle...  I think they will achieve LOTS in a second term (first full term) together.  Losing this tandem now would set us back a number of years... I fear that many projects and much progress in general would grind to a halt with a new administration that stands in stark contrast to the present one.

By all means, please say as much in letters to the editor.

 

KJP

Heard a blurb this morning that Wolstien was going to unveil a revised project plan today.  Anyone seen or heard anything?  My impression was it was not a major revision, but I'm curious about it.

East bank ripe for change, planners say Saturday, October 08, 2005

Tom Breckenridge

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

City planners say the east bank of the Flats is blighted and ready for developer Scott Wolstein's $230 million plan to build a new neighborhood from scratch.

To the chagrin of several Flats property owners, the Cleveland Planning Commission found on Friday that the east bank, north of the Main Avenue Bridge, is "extensively blighted" and needs a redevelopment plan.

 

More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com

Developer unveils bold blueprint for Flats office

 

 

By STAN BULLARD

 

6:00 am, October 10, 2005

 

 

 

The office market in downtown Cleveland has been so weak for so long that real estate insiders rarely talk about the prospect of someone constructing a commercial office building in the city. But that isn't stopping Scott Wolstein from incorporating a 10-story, multitenant office building in his redevelopment plans for the Flats.

 

Despite a 23% downtown office vacancy rate, Mr. Wolstein said he believes his proposed, 275,000-square-foot structure could be 'a signature building that would be a part of the future of Cleveland.' It would be located north of Front Street on a site overlooking Lake Erie and the rest of the planned, $230 million complex of apartments, condos and stores that are envisioned by Mr. Wolstein's family-owned Wolstein Group.

 

More at crainscleveland.com http://www.crainscleveland.com

I was at the city planning commission meeting Friday morning and I believe the problem with the bookstore is more location than anything else.  The owners of Samsel Supply Co. were in attendance and when the had a chance to speak they expressed their concern over their loading dock area.  They stated that on a slow day they receive something like 30 shipments, by semi-trailer, per day on a slow day.  I believe since they are a viable business in the flats they are lobbying to keep what they need intact.  It is ashame, I would love to have a decent bookstore within walking distance of my place.

I heard that Wolstein offered a vague comment after the meeting about the loading docks.  Something like "they won't have to worry about that."  Ideally, Samsel could move to a more industrial area of town where they would have better highway access for their shipments. Their building looks like an ideal place for loft conversions.  That entire little area is ideal for loft conversions.  Who wouldn't want to have a place that overlooks the river?

Samsel supply should have moved some time ago, that particular area of the flats dosent actualy get boats per say. Something near the old river channel would probably be a better move. With the wolstein project completeion, and hopefuly enough demand in the area, might be the push to move them out. That building would be an excellent site for loft conversion, its right near a waterfront line stop too

^Why would Samsel need boats?  I go there about twice a week for work and I don't have a boat.  I wish I did.

Ella-I'm confused: is the area that was planned for the bookstore the same land that Samsel is worried about?  Is there some reason that is the only suitable site for a bookstore?  Any other information about the project that you have would also be interesting.  I'm very excited about the Flats' project, but know very few actual details about the timetable and proposed development.

^^ er i ment that they are mainly a maratime supply store, and it would make more sense to be located closer to where the boats are. Old river channel allready has the great lakes towing there and the part of the port authority there, it seems to make more sense near there.

^Samsel really isn't a maratime supply store, rather it is more of a construction supply store.  Samsel has a great business down in the flats, probably one of the best retail business downtown.  All trades use that store and believe or not, there isn't one like it in the suburbs.  Samsel needs to stay where it is. It would be a shame if someone bought that building for lofts/apts/condominiums.  They would never generate the money that Samsel does everyday. 

Ella-I'm confused: is the area that was planned for the bookstore the same land that Samsel is worried about? 

Ewoops - What I gathered from the meeting was that the proposed bookstore is/was supposed to go on the parking lot/entrance to the loading area of Samsel.  This would hinder semis from being able to access their loading dock.  Samsel does do great business for the area so I can see their concern.

 

On another note, from what I've heard it is difficult to get major chain bookstores (Borders/Barnes & Noble) without other big box retailers.  I believe there was a proposal to put a bookstore around Lake Avenue & W117th (where the abandoned hexagonal bank(?) is) but both companies were reluctant because they wanted other anchor stores like a BestBuy or Target to be nearby.  It's really sad that retailers think they can't independently operate.

I agree with GoTribe.  Don't force Sampsel out.  If and when they move, the building will still be there.  Wolstien's comment re. Sampsel seemed to indicate that they would accomadate their needs.

What about this proposed office buliding.  W/out a tenant, I don't see it happening.

^probably true...but I can definitely see some younger businesses who employ mostly younger people (many design/internet/art firms, for example) being attracted to this more than an older office building in the financial district.  The problem would arise if the rents are, in fact, $4 or more than the going high mark.  I don't think they'll build it without a tenant signed on either.  Then again, this thing is looking at a 2010 completion, right?  So, who knows what the market will look like then.  And the potential office location is the northernmost part of the development, so it wouldn't leave a hole or anything if it wasn't built for a while...

^Samsel does a good solid business daily, monthly, yearly and they are not going to leave our region for a warmer and nicer climate.  We have a solid business there down in the flats and lets keep it.  Don't kick Samsel out and offer tax incentives to tech companies so we can get 25% of their building occupied.  Don't mess with a great thing.  It's like kicking Crate and Barrel out of Legacy Village to try to lure a tech start up there.  Insane. 

Where exactly is this Samsel place?  Is it on West 9th or down on Old River Road?  I'm not familiar with it.

 

I'm pretty sure the office building would be situated up in the bend of the Waterfront Line on the site of what was once going to be the Cleveland World Trade Center. 

Right next to the bridge, near waterfront line in the flats, its on old river road. Its like the only tall building in the flats, im sure its in some photothread.

Ella, I could be wrong but wasn't Samsel concerned partly because Wolstein had rather suddenly and unexpectedly expanded his proposed development zone to include Samsel's parking lot? (Here with go with people's beloved parking lots again.) It did strike me as odd that he would do so without consulting them first.

After the planning commission approved Wolstein's "action zone" proposal for the area, Commissioner Robert Brown advised Wolstein to "have a serious conversation" with the Samsel owners, in private, about exactly what he has in mind. That conversation should clear up current concerns.

 

OK, I've got the location now. 

 

From Wolstein's first site plan, the bookstore (which doesn't necessarily remain in the plan) would be built on the parking lot next to Samsel, as Ella mentioned earlier.  The Samsel building itself would remain.  It looks like Wolstein may want to use that parcel as a sort of gateway/magnet to lure people into the site with a major feature.  The rapid station is also right there, so it makes sense to use the parking lot for more than just parking...

 

However, if the parking lot serves a dual purpose for Samsel as a parking lot AND loading dock...which is how it's sounding...then there's a more significant problem there...

 

And what about this HUGE (over 100,000 square feet) lot directly east of the site???  Anyone talking about that?  The owner is "Main Street Parking, LLC."  This would help create a link along Front Street or under the bridge to West 9th.

MGD, if we're thinking of the same lot, it is indeed part of Wolstein's action zone. And a lawyer for whoever owns it was at the meeting last week, complaining about the possibility of eminent domain. He also said the current owners have their own residential development plans for the lot, independent of Wolstein's plan.

As they say, WE SHALL SEE....

wolstein will have to find a way to accomdate samsel -- talk about your classic flats business it's samsel.

 

MGD, if we're thinking of the same lot, it is indeed part of Wolstein's action zone. And a lawyer for whoever owns it was at the meeting last week, complaining about the possibility of eminent domain. He also said the current owners have their own residential development plans for the lot, independent of Wolstein's plan.

As they say, WE SHALL SEE....

 

awwrrrgh yeah right i bet they do! what? have they been saving it for a rainy day for the last umpteen years??? ha. they just want to try to force a better price out of wolstein, et al. my advice? they should fear eminent domain -- you got a bird in the hand now so better sell asap guys!

 

 

 

Discussion of the lot MGD was talking about was included in the Plain Dealer's coverage of last week's meeting (posted in full above):

 

Wolstein's plan envisions retaining a parking lot owned by Victor Shaia and other investors, east of West 10th Street. [The Main Street LLC lot.] But Shaia asked that his property be removed from the redevelopment plan. He's talking about building townhouses there.

 

According to my own notes, Wolstein responded that he wants to retain the lot because it will be needed for the neighborhood's new residents.

Maybe they need a two level garage.  One level for Samsel the other for the neighborhood.

Crain's has a blurb about Ferchill's plans for a $40 million-dollar development on West 9th and Main that would coincide with Wolstein's plan for the East Bank. 

 

Where exactly would this be?  Just on the other side of the Shoreway from National Terminal?  Would this project have the potential to front on both West 9th on the top of the hill and West 10th at the bottom of the hill?  I'm very excited about the prospect of spin-off development from the Flats development, and the possibility of creating a seamless transition from the East Bank to the Warehouse District.  This project, along with District Park and the existing buildings on the West side of West 9th are a great start.

 

Here's the link to Crain's: 

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/assets/pdf/CC23071014.PDF

 

 

"Where exactly would this be?  Just on the other side of the Shoreway from National Terminal?"

 

Yep.

Well, that would be exciting!!!  Is this just on the corner or are we talking the entire block? 

 

I wonder if we'll see District Park come to the surface again anytime soon? 

^That Ferchill job sounds like the area he wanted to build Courthouse Tower a few years back.  I spoke with Marous the other day and they said that there is a spark of life back in District Park.  Nothing to serious right now though.

Courthouse tower is* near the Detroit-Superior bridge.  This Ferchill thing is just north of the Main Ave. bridge.

actually, "Courthouse Tower" was slated to be built at West 6th and Lakeside.  "Courthouse Plaza" was the one to be built just west of the Federal Courthouse tower along the Detroit-Superior Bridge...

 

I don't think this is either one of those!

Alo, I think Courthouse Tower was a $125 millon job.

Guys, you're killing me  :lol: Here's a rendering of Courthouse Plaza (left of the Federal Courthouse Tower), the Courthouse tower (aka Doubletree Hotel) project (upper right) and approximate location of the Ferchill site. If you're familiar with the Water Street Condominiums, it's right around there.

 

OK, how does the new development fit in with "district park"?

The site is just east of the Wolstein development, between the lakefront railroad tracks and Front Street, just west of West 9th (the bridge to nowhere across the tracks).

 

KJP

crossing my fingers on that one... god it would be nice if district park came back.  DOWN WITH PARKING LOTS!! DOWN WITH PARKING LOTS!! (chanting)

Speaking of parking lots, there's another major development brewing. It could be delivered to the city for approval in January, but I suspect you'll hear about before then (hopefully much sooner, if I can break the story). In other words, stay tuned.

 

KJP

you are a cruel, cruel man Mr P!

what??  another one??