December 21, 201014 yr ^Unfortunately, that theory is a little optimistic in our market. The only thing that "forces" an owner to invest in his/her property is the opportunity to make money. And with high office vacancy, low office rent and relatively low residential rents (compared to other central cities), just because your building is now empty, it doesn't mean you'll make money by making the improvements necessary to lure tenants. Not without a lot public subsidy.
December 21, 201014 yr BTW, I know this is trivial, but the FEB website is as scaled down as the current version of the project. Perhaps some details can be added about what this version of the project will actually offer....noting the park space, the boardwalk, hotel, etc.....or just something a bit more descriptive, alluring, and creative in the pitch. Maybe offering some vision of making what is now a desolate space become a pedestrian appealing place again that can re-connect people with their river, and to do such, you don't always need to have bars and eateries. Just look at Pittsburgh near PNC park and Heinz Field. Just park areas but really nice...and since this is all we will have for now, you may as well play it up a bit. Perhaps some news bits as well. I mean seriously......Look at this.... http://www.flatseast.com/ I hope some plans are to update it. When times are tough, remember to keep your flag flying!
December 21, 201014 yr I really don't get the line of thought that not allowing this project to proceed (or not helping facilitate its ground-breaking) will help Downtown by forcing current tenants to stay put in space they are not satisfied with. Confounding. E&Y and TE want Class A space. Would you rather they moved to Chagrin Highlands to find it? Is there some kind of misconception that the City of Cleveland has the power to tell these private companies where, when and how they can relocate?
December 21, 201014 yr ^I don't think anyone has expressed that line of thought. I just find the arrangement to a bit of a bitter pill and this project to be a very mixed blessing.
December 21, 201014 yr can we celebrate now? http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2010/12/flats_east_bank_project_closes.html someone teach me how to do the nice formatting you all use to post publications
December 21, 201014 yr ^As much as I'm lukewarm on the project, it falling apart would be way worse, so I'll celebrate a little :) For formatting, hit the "Preview" button, highlight text and click on the desired format effect.
December 21, 201014 yr Or you can just hit the "REPLY" tab when you want to post as opposed to using the "Quick Reply" box that does not provide you with the formatting options.
December 21, 201014 yr ^As much as I'm lukewarm on the project, it falling apart would be way worse, so I'll celebrate a little :) For formatting, hit the "Preview" button, highlight text and click on the desired format effect. Same how I feel.
December 21, 201014 yr ^As much as I'm lukewarm on the project, it falling apart would be way worse, so I'll celebrate a little :) Lukewarm seems a bit negative but I can understand not doing backflips for it too. I predict we'll see a 2nd phase for this site announced before the first phase even opens.
December 21, 201014 yr Has anyone posted this before? http://www.forumarc.com/projects/mixed/default.htm#2 I know we've seen multiple drawings of development, some that just show the hotel and E&Y tower, others show much more development, and these (above) seem to show an entire new community! Has anyone heard of legitimate "phases" that Wolstein plans to develop? Since they own all that land out to the river, would they be the only ones to do it? Any chance a vibrant multi-building campus is actually in their long term plans?
December 21, 201014 yr ^ yeah that's a sweet link & schematics. I'm sure it's in their "long term" plans. I highly doubt the vollyball court is part of the long term plan. I was involved with this back in 06 & 07 when it was supposed to have all the residential housing, several parking structures, a big boat slip notched out of the river, a movie complex, restaurants, etc. All that got whittled back quickly when the economy tanked. Hopefully someone in the know can post up, but I believe all the infrastructure (gas, water, sewer, storm lines) are being installed with that master plan still in mind.
December 21, 201014 yr Hmmm.... not sure we have seen those exact renderings, but we have seen some with the exact same footprint/layout. Of course, these pictures still contemplate an Eaton campus on the other side of the freight tracks, tucked inside an expanded loop of the waterfront line.
December 21, 201014 yr Yeah I'm pretty sure there is still a master plan in mind, but I doubt it will look like that. A simple google search led me to find 2 other master plans for the flats east bank project different from the one on Forum's website: http://passionsofazealot.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/eua-20080508-aerial-lr.jpg http://www.gcbl.org/system/files/flats-east-aerial-sm.jpg
December 22, 201014 yr Kids....look up thread. Both of those older renderings are discussed here. Do you really think that we would not have debated about those renderings?? Come on - this is UO!
December 22, 201014 yr they envision a Cleveland sports hall of fame in the http://www.forumarc.com/ one.
December 22, 201014 yr I mean seriously......Look at this.... http://www.flatseast.com/ I hope some plans are to update it. When times are tough, remember to keep your flag flying! Dude they didn't even pay their architect. Where are they going to get the money to update a website?
December 22, 201014 yr Priorities. Wouldn't look too good with them owing money left and right, if they spent money on something as relatively frivolous as a website, before they even had financing. This whole project has been super-dubious from the get go. Whatever, I'm glad they got their money and that the blight that's there now (only true justice in this would have been an eminent domain proceeding on the NEW owner forcing them to sell at below what they wanted to sell for) will be alleviated.
December 23, 201014 yr A good website isn't remotely frivolous, especially if you're trying to attract investors globally
December 28, 201014 yr ^ Exactly. Websites these days are essential to such projects and doing business to this scale and if you cannot even afford to make a few tweaks on that, then how sad. Its kind of analogous to a salesman without a business card.
December 29, 201014 yr Anyone notice any activity at FEB? Construction was to start (re-start) last Wednesday.
December 29, 201014 yr If they just closed financing last week I cannot image construction would begin that quick no matter who is quoting supposed dates. I would also imagine that they still have to finish much of the infrastructure work. Add in the fact it is winter and the holidays and I would guess you won't see that much movement down there for a month or so. In any event I have not been by personally.
December 30, 201014 yr Hts, you make a good point... I thought, though, there was some technicality for Wolstein/Fishman to receive financing that they put a shovel into the dirt by 12/30/10... even if it's a cursory gesture...
January 1, 201114 yr Author Money secured, work to start next week on Flats aquarium Officials hope for synergy among the aquarium and other downtown attractions, including the planned casino and the Flats East Bank project that recently broke ground. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/12/post_410.html It did?? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 1, 201114 yr One guy putting a shovel in the ground could technically be "breaking ground". Major construction won't start until later this month.
January 13, 201114 yr Here's a little blurb from Freshwater: Flats East Bank to be Cleveland’s first green-certified neighborhood Thursday, January 13, 2011 The Flats has often been called the birthplace of Cleveland. Soon, it will gain a new tagline when it's reborn as the city's first green-certified neighborhood. The Wolstein Group and Fairmount Properties, co-developers of the Flats East Bank project, are using sustainable building practices in the $272 million project, which broke ground in December. The project's financing dried up in 2008, but the developers revived the deal, cobbling together more than 35 public and private funding sources. The first phase will include an office tower, hotel, retail and 14-acre riverfront park. Last year, the U.S. Green Building Council certified that the project had met Phase I criteria for Leadership in Energy Efficiency and Design for Neighborhood Development (LEED-ND). LEED is considered to be the national standard for sustainable design. "Early on, the developers committed to pursue LEED Neighborhood status, and also a green-built project," says Justin Glanville, Project Director for Building Cleveland by Design (BCBD), a collaboration of two nonprofits, ParkWorks and Cleveland Public Art, to inject more thoughtful design into prominent building projects in Cleveland. http://www.freshwatercleveland.com/devnews/flatsgreencertified011311.aspx
January 13, 201114 yr That was one of the quietest ground breakings I have ever heard of. Are they any photos to confirm construction actually began? I live in Tremont and drove down through the Flats a few weeks ago and didn't see anything related to construction...
January 13, 201114 yr Technically, they broke ground a few years ago. Exactly, when they demolished all those buildings and began site utility work. https://www.instagram.com/cle_and_beyond/https://www.instagram.com/jbkaufer/
January 15, 201114 yr It was quiet! The only reason I know they started is because our company is working on the project. They have not started in full fource of course, but I do believe they have started auger cast piles, and pile caps. Probabaly in about 2 to 3 weeks, you will see some more activity
January 15, 201114 yr Soo we're saying construction is underway?? I'll keep an eye out as well. You'd think they'd want media on it (or at least a frikin website) since the whole region has been waiting to hear a word.
January 15, 201114 yr did they have to "break ground" for certain monetary reasons?? It was probably really nothing.
January 16, 201114 yr did they have to "break ground" for certain monetary reasons?? It was probably really nothing. No, they are actually moving along.
January 16, 201114 yr Author There were probably 20-40 construction workers down there on Friday with lots of trucks moving around. Just between the Medical Mart/Convention Center and the Flats East Bank, there's an awful lot of muddy tire tracks from trucks all over our downtown streets these days! :-D "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 16, 201114 yr There were probably 20-40 construction workers down there on Friday with lots of trucks moving around. Just between the Medical Mart/Convention Center and the Flats East Bank, there's an awful lot of muddy tire tracks from trucks all over our downtown streets these days! :-D Nice report KJP!
January 16, 201114 yr Well, I drove by today and snapped a picture of all my Urban Ohio peeps. It was Sunday afternoon, so there wasn't a person in sight, but here's how it's looking so far: Doesn't look like much to me. Again, I realize no one is on site, but the convention center groundbreaking technically happened after this one and driving by that you could see a lot more progress. Maybe I was looking in the wrong spot.
January 16, 201114 yr Looks as though in the interim nature was doing a little reclaiming of the land.
January 17, 201114 yr Author Looks more like equipment set up is happening. I suspect they'll probably pour a concrete pad first? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 17, 201114 yr Looks more like equipment set up is happening. I suspect they'll probably pour a concrete pad first? I can't recall if they are doing a pad/matt foundation. I think they are installing auger cast piles. Therefore, the next thing you should see is a drill rig with a big auger on it drilling "circular holes" that will be filled with concrete/grout.
January 20, 201114 yr OK, Flats East Bank just joined Facebook about an hour ago...I have no idea how I just found it: I'm the only one "liking" it right now...lol http://www.facebook.com/pages/Flats-East-Bank/177488772279473?v=wall
January 20, 201114 yr I think it is also odd that their only post is from a press release of Sept 2009. Who the HELL is their marketing team! ??? ?
January 20, 201114 yr And after googling, I also found this...which still illustrates the financial complexity of this project: January 18, 2011 Rubenstein JVs Buys Development Properties Rubenstein Partners, a Philadelphia-headquartered private real estate investment management and advisory firm, formed joint ventures with local investment and development companies to invest $70 million in properties in four states on behalf of Rubenstein Properties Fund LP, an office fund that has sat quietly for nearly four years. The fund will follow up with an additional $30 million in the assets. The four transactions closed in the fourth quarter of last year. The fund provided a $15 million mezzanine loan in the mixed-use Flats East Bank Development in Cleveland, OH. The project will consist of an 18-story LEED certified office structure, a 150-room A-Loft hotel, retail space, a garage and park land covering 14 acres. http://www.costar.com/News/Article/In-The-Pipeline-CoStar-Development-and-Construction-News-for-Jan-16-22/125723
January 20, 201114 yr OK, Flats East Bank just joined Facebook about an hour ago...I have no idea how I just found it: I'm the only one "liking" it right now...lol http://www.facebook.com/pages/Flats-East-Bank/177488772279473?v=wall I am the 4th to like it
January 20, 201114 yr Author I was the 9th, so I barely made the top ten. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
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