Some tidbits of insights from the link musky posted:

 

Phase 1

 

- Tower under construction will be 500,000 sq ft

- 23 stories  (structural steel up 15 stories now - going 5-6 more)

- 3 story parking garage

- 18 stories of office space

- open air roof deck

- 150 room Aloft hotel

- 5-6 new restaurants

- 1,200 feet of riverfront boardwalk

- couple of restaurants and clubs along the riverfront

- $275 million

- Opens Spring 2013

 

Probably stuff we all know, but just a nice recap as we continue to wait.

 

^5-6 restaurants?  :-o

^^I'm actually happy with what is being included in phase I. The demand for residential downtown is obviously there so I don't foresee any issues with adding that to the mix in phase II and the excitement of seeing a new tower going up and the influx of people to the East Bank will only make the idea of residential that much more enticing once they move on to phase II. I'll be patiently waiting to see what this entails, whether it is low rises, mid rises, a mix of low rises and a tower or two. Anything will be great.

^5-6 restaurants?  :-o

 

I think the restaurant component has been reported all along, so it's not a total surprise, but I too reacted pretty strongly when I heard Fishman mention it on the radio program.  What do people think- will FEB be able to sustain 5 or 6 restaurants as part of Phase I (so before the apartments), given the long winter and relative isolation from the rest of downtown?  The hotel and office building definitely aren't enough by themselves to keep that many seats filled.  Will certainly be interesting to watch it unfold.

I hope they put up those apartments relatively soon, because I'm worried that those restaurants will not get enough business without them.

^5-6 restaurants?  :-o

 

I think the restaurant component has been reported all along, so it's not a total surprise, but I too reacted pretty strongly when I heard Fishman mention it on the radio program.  What do people think- will FEB be able to sustain 5 or 6 restaurants as part of Phase I (so before the apartments), given the long winter and relative isolation from the rest of downtown?  The hotel and office building definitely aren't enough by themselves to keep that many seats filled.  Will certainly be interesting to watch it unfold.

 

I can see a few restaurants surviving at the base of the hotel and office tower.

 

The one on the boardwalk im not so sure about. They will be a great spot during the summer, but during the winter it should be tough for now. Especially since they will be extremely isolated from everything else. Even in the summer it could be hard. The office tower and hotel arent too far from west 9th and west 6th so they have a greater chance at survival in my opinion. Plus they have the hotel and office tower to always have some flow of people down there.

^ I agree.  This development is a lot closer to the Warehouse District than people think, with a lot of residential already just a block or two away.  Having the shoreway bridge separate it from the rest of downtown might create a perceived barrier, so I'd be curious to see what, if anything, gets done along Main Ave under the bridge to better visually connect FEB back to the rest of downtown.  I think that could go a long way.

Having the shoreway bridge separate it from the rest of downtown might create a perceived barrier, so I'd be curious to see what, if anything, gets done along Main Ave under the bridge to better visually connect FEB back to the rest of downtown.  I think that could go a long way.

 

I may be jumping the gun, and I feel like I've been overly negative, but from what I can tell the new building will have very little connection to the Main Ave sidewalk.

 

You would assume that Main Streets connection to downtown would be a vital pedestrian link and extremely important to connect FEB with the Warehouse Dist.

 

However where I expected windows and storefront-esque portals, there appears only a windowless concrete wall and then parking garage.

 

This design,  or lack thereof would be echoes of the new West Bank architecture, and a real missed opportunity imho.

 

 

^ I agree.  This development is a lot closer to the Warehouse District than people think, with a lot of residential already just a block or two away.  Having the shoreway bridge separate it from the rest of downtown might create a perceived barrier, so I'd be curious to see what, if anything, gets done along Main Ave under the bridge to better visually connect FEB back to the rest of downtown.  I think that could go a long way.

 

Actually, the huge National Terminal apt. complex is right across the street (Main Ave + the Bridge) from FEB.

Having the shoreway bridge separate it from the rest of downtown might create a perceived barrier, so I'd be curious to see what, if anything, gets done along Main Ave under the bridge to better visually connect FEB back to the rest of downtown.  I think that could go a long way.

 

I may be jumping the gun, and I feel like I've been overly negative, but from what I can tell the new building will have very little connection to the Main Ave sidewalk.

 

You would assume that Main Streets connection to downtown would be a vital pedestrian link and extremely important to connect FEB with the Warehouse Dist.

 

However where I expected windows and storefront-esque portals, there appears only a windowless concrete wall and then parking garage.

 

This design,  or lack thereof would be echoes of the new West Bank architecture, and a real missed opportunity imho.

 

 

 

The main entrance to the office tower, as well as an entrance to the hotel, will actually be off of Main Avenue.

 

While there appears to be little or no retail along this stretch, I still think it will end up being a pretty highly traveled stretch, by cars and people.  It really should be a main thoroughfare to connect the WHD down the hill toward the river.  SHOULD being the key word.  It's just going to come down to how/if the developer or city addresses it, through repairing the road, adding lighting, etc.

 

EDIT: I agree with you, by the way, that the project could have addressed Main Ave. better than it likely will.  I just think it still could end up being effective in connecting the development with the WHD and the rest of downtown, even without sidewalk retail.

I know of one of the restaurants/clubs to open is going to get mixed reaction on here - but it is going to be large and likely will be a large regional draw

I know of one of the restaurants/clubs to open is going to get mixed reaction on here - but it is going to be large and likely will be a large regional draw

 

Now I have to know.

Oh my, me too.

Now we have to start guessing...  Dave & Buster's?    :evil:

I know of one of the restaurants/clubs to open is going to get mixed reaction on here - but it is going to be large and likely will be a large regional draw

 

Does it rhyme with "Schmapplebees?"

a few hints - a version has opened or will be opening soon in Cincinnati and is owned by a country music star....

^5-6 restaurants?  :o

 

I think the restaurant component has been reported all along, so it's not a total surprise, but I too reacted pretty strongly when I heard Fishman mention it on the radio program.  What do people think- will FEB be able to sustain 5 or 6 restaurants as part of Phase I (so before the apartments), given the long winter and relative isolation from the rest of downtown?  The hotel and office building definitely aren't enough by themselves to keep that many seats filled.  Will certainly be interesting to watch it unfold.

I'm not targeting you, but I've said this before, we can always give a reason why something "cannot work" here in Cleveland.  People said the same about Warehouse District, TC & E. 4th cannibalizing one another.  Has that happened?

 

So I'll ask you, can you give us reasons why this can work?

 

This project is erasing the invisible divide between the East Bank and the WHD.

Ok, must be Toby Keith's "I love this bar & grill" thing ... ?

 

http://www.wlwt.com/money/26376050/detail.html

 

While there appears to be little or no retail along this stretch, I still think it will end up being a pretty highly traveled stretch, by cars and people.  It really should be a main thoroughfare to connect the WHD down the hill toward the river.  SHOULD being the key word.  It's just going to come down to how/if the developer or city addresses it, through repairing the road, adding lighting, etc.

 

EDIT: I agree with you, by the way, that the project could have addressed Main Ave. better than it likely will.  I just think it still could end up being effective in connecting the development with the WHD and the rest of downtown, even without sidewalk retail.

 

Thanks for posting, I haven't seen that before. I hope you're right and that it's not too late for Wolstein to address this issue.

 

To clarify, I'm not suggesting Main St. had to be retail, but at the very least some large windows for the "eyes on the street" factor would make the area feel safe and welcoming. We have enough pedestrian dead zones in CLE already.

 

I think that area (brick pavers, hilly street, under the bridge) is actually a very cool and unique spot.

 

It's easy to imagine the National Terminal apartments across the street opening up some of those bricked over windows along that stretch. New windows and patios! You have an instant micro neighborhood with sidewalk life and character.

 

 

a few hints - a version has opened or will be opening soon in Cincinnati and is owned by a country music star....

 

OH GOD...NO!

^what he said.  Would that place fly in Cleveland?

Oh yeah, that would totally fly here.

http://tobysmesa.com/locations

 

 

http://tobysmesa.com/locations

 

 

 

You wont find me at that trailer park attraction!

 

Moving on............

No surprise, most of their locations seem to be in the suburbs (Cincy being an exception). 

 

Of course it just opened in Cincy (so there is the newness thing that wears off after a while) but it appears the place is regularly packed.  Regular comments on the Cincy Banks thread how it is packed but "not my kind of crowd" (and then somebody criticizes the poster for being a snob).

^Awful.  Although maybe we could structure some "Hidden Cleveland" walks around the Cadillac Ranch, Tilted Kilt, and Toby Keith triangle.

^Awful.  Although maybe we could structure some "Hidden Cleveland" walks around the Cadillac Ranch, Tilted Kilt, and Toby Keith triangle.

 

Why don't you just kill me....kill me now!

I am not a fan of country music but this may draw a demographic that would not normally go downtown.  Not bad.

I am not a fan of country music but this may draw a demographic that would not normally go downtown.  Not bad.

 

We already had a terminal velocity of mechanical bulls downtown with Cadillac Ranch and Whiskey Whatever.

 

If this is true 1. I'm sure it will be a draw and 2. I'll never ever set foot in the place.

Diversity is the spice of life! I forgot about the Ranch and not sure about Whisky? Not my cup of tea but the more people the better!

Looks like most of these are close to sports facilities, in fitting with the sportsbar/country bar theme.  They also have live music, so I'll say that while it isn't my thing it could be worse.  It could be a "Celtic Hooters", afterall.

 

http://www.wlwt.com/money/26376050/detail.html

 

 

"It will have dozens of high-definition televisions, an outdoor patio and an 88-foot guitar, which will act as its centerpiece."

 

 

WAIT, Wait, wait.... WHAT?????

r and r...I would not question the music...I probably would not go (although I have never been) because I doubt the food will be my cup of tea.

Interesting.  I guess this is indeed the kind of regional draw that could make the restaurants spaces there work.  I have no idea if the developers are still pursuing a mozzarella bar as they once said they were, but if so, this is going to be a seriously eclectic lineup.

I'm not particularly mad, like many people here seem to be. It's another business downtown, and it'll have some regional draw.

 

Also, I remember I heard something about a local burger joint planning on opening in one of those retail spots. I can't remember what it's called though. The original location is in the 'burbs somewhere.

^flip side in hudson

Definitely not my cup of tea music-wise... but I (IMO sadly) know many people who love Country music here.  The menu has 9423 things I'd probably eat though so I'm down, I'll just bring a set of earplugs and get my grind on  :lol:

Like it or not, Cleveland is a HUGE country market.  WGAR consistently ranks in the top radio stations in the format.  I won't go there, but hope this is a success to start the east bank on it's road to recovery.

 

Now if we could just get Gary Bauer to reopen the Basement.... :drunk:

a few hints - a version has opened or will be opening soon in Cincinnati and is owned by a country music star....

 

Oh in the Banks......  Whatever..

 

There will be a Flip Side Burgers as well.  And initially it was to have a Bernie Kosar Steak House, but I believe those went bankrupt.  There was also supposed to be some "Magic" restaurant place that was to be opened by some guy that was from Cleveland... Not sure about that one.   

I'm not crazy about the country thing, but if it can be a draw, why not? As long as CLE doesn't turn into "Country Music Central", then I'm ok with it. lol. Although I do agree that if this same concept was for a different demographic that there would likely be more people opposed. But what the hell, bring on the Brunstuckyians!

Is Tequila Ranch still in business on W 6th?  That is a country theme bar and always seemed packed.  So the cowboy themes do work to an extent.  Not sure that the area could support two of that type however.

Like it or not, Cleveland is a HUGE country market.  WGAR consistently ranks in the top radio stations in the format.  I won't go there, but hope this is a success to start the east bank on it's road to recovery.

 

Now if we could just get Gary Bauer to reopen the Basement.... :drunk:

 

Country music stations are at the top in almost all radio markets.  Of course, there is also usually only one country music station in most markets as opposed to umpteen rock, pop or hip-hop/r&b stations.

Like it or not, Cleveland is a HUGE country market.  WGAR consistently ranks in the top radio stations in the format.  I won't go there, but hope this is a success to start the east bank on it's road to recovery.

 

Now if we could just get Gary Bauer to reopen the Basement.... :drunk:

 

Country music stations are at the top in almost all radio markets.  Of course, there is also usually only one country music station in most markets as opposed to umpteen rock, pop or hip-hop/r&b stations.

 

Realize that X, but WGAR consistently ranks as the top of that heap nationally. 

Tequila Ranch is still in business and to call it country themed is quite a stretch. There format is much more like Cadillac Ranch's theme albeit for a younger crowd.

That... and rock, pop, hip-hop, and classical music fans know how to work pandora or Itunes. :)

 

I'm fine with country bars because they tend to have a better tequila selection. In a vodka and beer town, a little tequila is a nice change of pace.

There's nothing wrong with something for everyone.  It's a new business in the area. 

As has been echoed by many, I sure it will be packed but it's not my cup of tea (that being said I am an old country and alt.country fan, but the radio stuff today hurts ears and brain). I may set foot if somebody I like plays there. If it's busy I am for it.

 

Regarding the 88ft Guitar, it reminds of the old Ponderosa campground and amphitheater outside of Salem that catered to country acts back in the 80's. They had a guitar shaped indoor swimming pool there. Must be a Country Music thing.

Outside of the major cities, I would say "most" of Ohio is country-leaning, so this works for me since I imagine a lot of our immediate draw will be from folks close by. And like CBC, I am an old country fan but not as much of the new stuff. I had to volunteer at a place for 3 hours last night and they had WGAR on. I recognized a Taylor Swift song but most of the rest of it, the songs just all sounded alike. Except I heard a really funny one called "She Thinks My Tractor's Sexy" that I kept singing all night.

There's certainly a huge country audience in Greater Cleveland and hopefully it is a quality experience that will draw people consistently from exurbia and beyond.  Is there something special about this chain besides the name and that it's going to be located downtown (which will hopefully be a draw in and of itself)?

 

Red Solo Cup is an instant classic!!

 

WARNING! :  This song will get stuck in your head.  For better or worse!  :laugh: