And check out the green roofs in the rendering... I missed that the first time.  Very interesting!

 

And the green wall of the parking garage in the background...

 

I'm trying to decide how I feel about the relationship between the restaurant and residential buildings to the boardwalk and water.  In the summer I can imagine that wide boardwalk with the landscaped buffer being pretty sweet, but for 8 months of the year, I think having the buildings a little closer to boardwalk and water would make for a much nicer public space.  As depicted, that boardwalk may feel creepily empty and isolated in our grayer months.

I'm really liking the looks of the residential building. No, Phase II residential is not to the grand scale of the original, but there is certainly room for expanding in the future, as Michele mentioned in her article.

 

This new plan actually does a much better job of embracing the river. Or at least the depiction is a lot clearer. Anyhow I can definitely see myself wanting to spend time at this location. This is going to be good.

 

I particularly like the two riverfront retail buildings. I'm tired of "blocky." These two places have classy, swoopy design and best of all, they're using rooftop patios. Awesome.

 

My one preliminary complaint is the beige/grey? retail building just north of the residential. With the wrong materials, it could emerge looking very cheap and Crocker Park-ish. Why not just use a quality brick?

 

Oh, and finally, the boardwalk looks to be an actual boardwalk...with boards! Probably polymer over wood but I'll take it over concrete any day.

 

For the sake of comparison (a reminder of the original awesome vision for Phase II residential), the link for the original plan is here:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/05/eua_20080508_aerial_LR.jpg

FEB Ph 2 Rendering

So this is the final design and size of the apartment or is this just a mock up to give an idea off? I ask because weren't there discussions about downsizing the apartments in phase 2 or something? Another question I have is by looking at the renderings on the site Phase I is only the Aloft hotel, and Earnst & Young tower; with green space, and phase II is the residential building and a boardwalk. Am I correct with that analysis or am I missing something? I know the project was scaled down dramatically from the original movie theater, clubs etc. but I thought it would include at least the clubs at least or something else down there because looking at phase I renderings that is a lot of green space. I don't mind green space and think the Flats East Bank development is great, but I just hope there is more down there besides restaurants to attract different crowds such as a classy club etc. or a movie theater. Can someone clarify this for me because I feel at least the movie theater would be great.

And check out the green roofs in the rendering... I missed that the first time.  Very interesting!

 

And the green wall of the parking garage in the background...

 

I'm trying to decide how I feel about the relationship between the restaurant and residential buildings to the boardwalk and water.  In the summer I can imagine that wide boardwalk with the landscaped buffer being pretty sweet, but for 8 months of the year, I think having the buildings a little closer to boardwalk and water would make for a much nicer public space.  As depicted, that boardwalk may feel creepily empty and isolated in our grayer months.

 

I was wondering the same thing....but I would not want the buildings too close to the river at that height.

FEB Ph 2 Rendering

So this is the final design and size of the apartment or is this just a mock up to give an idea off? I ask because weren't there discussions about downsizing the apartments in phase 2 or something? Another question I have is with all the funding Wolstein got from those numerous amounts of people did that cover phase 2 as well?

 

I believe what is shown is a downsizing from the original residential component.  It appears this will now be done is stages.

^^Yeah, probably not the big residential building, but I could imagine the restaurant buildings, or even some later, smaller residential buildings directly facing the boardwalk to add some more immediate signs of life off-season.

Love the additional of Ken Stewart's!  And check out that boardwalk.

What are peoples thoughts of Lago moving from Tremont?  I know its only one restaurant, but Tremont needs to stay its wonderful self and continue to grow.

 

Great news all around.  Need a pedestrian bridge to get folks across the river to the aquarium and NEED SHOPPING!!!

What are peoples thoughts of Lago moving from Tremont?  I know its only one restaurant, but Tremont needs to stay its wonderful self and continue to grow.

 

Great news all around.  Need a pedestrian bridge to get folks across the river to the aquarium and NEED SHOPPING!!!

That would be a great idea, but on a "working river" I see that as a huge liability plus the cost to maintain and operate.  Hopefully the water taxi's will return.

I'm happy there will be a local resterauteur among the chains at FEB, so no complaints from me about Lago moving.  I doubt the current Lago space will stay empty long.

A country bar??  Shouldn't that be on the west bank??

I like the look of this residential. Activating the riverfront is the best place to begin the residential phasing. And it appears that the rest of the original rendering could still potentially be built which is nice. Didn't they say that phase 1 of the residential would bring around 150 units with the ability to eventually have 600 or so in future phases? That would make sense based on the rest of the buildings which will be built in the future. Overall I'm happy to see that this won't just sit as a big grass lawn for a long time like I feared after seeing the renderings of phase 1.

I'm happy to hear that Phase II is moving forward, but I'm a little bit disappointed at the number of small 1/2 story retail only buildings.  I'm actually OK with the two small ones closest to the river as they will maintain sight lines for the apartments, but I'm not real happy with the one to the North of the apartment building (Toby Keith's?).  I think in the original rendering this was a 4 or 5 story apartment building with ground floor retail.  I think they had it right the first time.

 

I'm also disappointed that they included a surface parking lot between the hotel and phase II.  But one would hope this would be the site for their next building to tie the two phases together.

That Patio/board walk is exactly the kind of 'people watching place' I mentioned in another thread and I think the city sorely needs. Looks good.

I'm happy to hear that Phase II is moving forward, but I'm a little bit disappointed at the number of small 1/2 story retail only buildings.  I'm actually OK with the two small ones closest to the river as they will maintain sight lines for the apartments, but I'm not real happy with the one to the North of the apartment building (Toby Keith's?).  I think in the original rendering this was a 4 or 5 story apartment building with ground floor retail.  I think they had it right the first time.

 

I'm also disappointed that they included a surface parking lot between the hotel and phase II.  But one would hope this would be the site for their next building to tie the two phases together.

Is that what that gray area between the tower & residential building is?  :-(

Okay, now I can see it...

http://media.cleveland.com/business_impact/photo/feb-aerial-residential-retailjpg-6f5f39b1f4c57f57.jpg

I wonder when is the ground breaking schedule for Phrase II? Toby Keith's I love This Bar & Grill is scheduled to open later summer or early fall of 2013

That rendering looks great! Cant wait for Phase 2! and 3! and 4! and 5! :D

I like the one building but I wish it were more than one.  Still a whole lot of useless greenspace patches of for a "Phase 2" of a downtown waterfront development.  Very suburban in its land usage, as if that apartment building is a mall and Toby Keith's is an Applebee's.

Really?  Are you reading the articles at all?  They made it clear that there are going to be future phases on most of that land.

I'm hoping it doesn't take them too long to come up with the financing to push the project forward.  It looks great and really builds on the momentum downtown has right now.  Gotta love it!

This next phase looks fine to me. Glad to see the market is finally allowing more projects like this to move forward, even though it's taking some subsidy to nudge such projects. I'm OK with that though.

In case anyone is curious as to what this most recent announcement entails, I have taken it upon myself to create a quick site plan of what buildings will exist come the completion of Phase II. This is an older site plan, but the building locations and overall layout are the same based on renderings released for Phase I and II.

 

Also of note, Has anyone noticed the change of height to the Ernst and Young office tower. On the flats east bank website it now states the tower is 23 stories high compare to the 18 stories we have been told before.

Also of note, Has anyone noticed the change of height to the Ernst and Young office tower. On the flats east bank website it now states the tower is 23 stories high compare to the 18 stories we have been told before.

 

Check MayDay's post on the previous page: It's 18 floors + 3 garage levels + mechanical + penthouse level = 23.  I think they're just counting every level of the structure. 

Great news all around.  Need a pedestrian bridge to get folks across the river to the aquarium and NEED SHOPPING!!!

That would be a great idea, but on a "working river" I see that as a huge liability plus the cost to maintain and operate.  Hopefully the water taxi's will return.

 

One of my first thoughts exactly...they need to connect the two banks. Being able to go to and from Shooters and all the other restaurants and bars without hopping in a taxi would be wonderful, I'm sure the west bank would greatly benefit from this as well.

I could see there being a market for those water taxi's again.  Hopefully they'll make a comeback, just like the FEB!!!  :-D

My first thought was how are they going to put five restaurants in the current tower? Now that I look at the renderings, it looks like at least one of the restaurants will be housed in a separate building. It looks like Toby Keith's I Love This Bar and Grill is in a separate building to the left on the rendering.

^By my count, of the 5 restaurants 1 will be in the hotel (plus the hotels bar/lounge), 1 will be in the apartment building, and 3 will be housed in separate, single purpose buildings.  Or are more restaurants going in the office building/hotel?

 

The rendering for phase II looks nice and everything, but the site plan does look extremely suburban.  Hopefully they will work to create more density in future phases.

^By my count, of the 5 restaurants 1 will be in the hotel (plus the hotels bar/lounge), 1 will be in the apartment building, and 3 will be housed in separate, single purpose buildings.  Or are more restaurants going in the office building/hotel?

 

The rendering for phase II looks nice and everything, but the site plan does look extremely suburban.  Hopefully they will work to create more density in future phases.

How does it look "extremely" suburban?

^By my count, of the 5 restaurants 1 will be in the hotel (plus the hotels bar/lounge), 1 will be in the apartment building, and 3 will be housed in separate, single purpose buildings.  Or are more restaurants going in the office building/hotel?

 

The rendering for phase II looks nice and everything, but the site plan does look extremely suburban.  Hopefully they will work to create more density in future phases.

How does it look "extremely" suburban?

 

Yes show me one suburb around here that looks like that!

This is just the second phase.  Once they're successful, there is plenty of room for more phases/density and spillover to west bank.

OK, maybe I should clarify.  The apartment building looks just fine.  What looks "extremely suburban" to me are the 3 single purpose one or two story buildings.  Since when are we excited about building a one story restaurant downtown?  As I said previously I'm actually ok with the two buildings near the boardwalk because they maintain sight lines and have attractive roof top and outdoor seating options.  But the Toby Keith building looks really out of place in the rendering.  The amount of green space and surface parking is also excessive in my opinion, but I'll give them a pass and assume that this space will be built out in the future.

OK, maybe I should clarify.  The apartment building looks just fine.  What looks "extremely suburban" to me are the 3 single purpose one or two story buildings.  Since when are we excited about building a one story restaurant downtown?  As I said previously I'm actually ok with the two buildings near the boardwalk because they maintain sight lines and have attractive roof top and outdoor seating options.  But the Toby Keith building looks really out of place in the rendering.  The amount of green space and surface parking is also excessive in my opinion, but I'll give them a pass and assume that this space will be built out in the future.

 

Agreed.

Yeah, I've now decided I definitely don't like the way the buildings relate (or, really, don't relate) to the waterfront itself.  I'm still excited by the project overall, especially the residential component, but just seems designed with too much focus on Summer Good Times!! and less on making a real 12 month neighborhood.  I predict that even after Phase II, the place is going to feel more dead for too much of the year than it could have with a different site plan.  IMHO the East Bank overall is shaping up to be a weird mix of underused parkland and buildings blocking public access to the water, rather than the building-walkway-water formula that works so well.

Yeah, I've now decided I definitely don't like the way the buildings relate (or, really, don't relate) to the waterfront itself.  I'm still excited by the project overall, especially the residential component, but just seems designed with too much focus on Summer Good Times!! and less on making a real 12 month neighborhood.  I predict that even after Phase II, the place is going to feel more dead for too much of the year than it could have with a different site plan.  IMHO the East Bank overall is shaping up to be a weird mix of underused parkland and buildings blocking public access to the water, rather than the building-walkway-water formula that works so well.

 

I'm giving your point of view some consideration. I can see some advantages of say, dividing up the residential building into 4-6 separate ones. That would create lots of little walkways and side streets that can often provide neighborhood character. Different avenues of river access would be beneficial.

 

I still actually like how the current plan gives the boardwalk/riverside a little breathing room in this case. The area can still be serviced by restaurants in colder months with events plus accommodations like fire pits and seating.

 

Not saying that this pattern should be uniform all along the river. It's good to have variety, and yes there are lots of benefits to building up close to the water.

 

 

^Variety is good; it just would have been nice to have at least one bricks/mortar restaurant (maybe with a couple floors of residences above?) open directly onto the waterfront to provide some signs of life in November.  As shown in the rendering, other than the outdoor tables serving the southernmost restaurant, the development is 100% incidental to the boardwalk.  So really, very little people watching opportunity.

 

FYI, the Cleveland.com piece (http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/04/flats_east_bank_project_lines.html) has been updated slightly to acknowledge that there are Toby Keith thingies all over the country, not just in Oklahoma, but more importantly with a site plan:

http://media.cleveland.com/business_impact/photo/13cgflatsjpg-163b32475325c6bc.jpg  Looks more or less like the excellent site plan jmicha mocked up from the full-build out version.

 

FYI, the Cleveland.com piece (http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/04/flats_east_bank_project_lines.html) has been updated slightly to acknowledge that there are Toby Keith thingies all over the country, not just in Oklahoma, but more importantly with a site plan:

http://media.cleveland.com/business_impact/photo/13cgflatsjpg-163b32475325c6bc.jpg  Looks more or less like the excellent site plan jmicha mocked up from the full-build out version.

 

 

I wonder what lucky facility gets to have their building adjacent to the the rail line and bridge.

^Variety is good; it just would have been nice to have at least one bricks/mortar restaurant (maybe with a couple floors of residences above?) open directly onto the waterfront to provide some signs of life in November.  As shown in the rendering, other than the outdoor tables serving the southernmost restaurant, the development is 100% incidental to the boardwalk.  So really, very little people watching opportunity.

 

You've got a good point on the boardwalk. In the future, it really has to offer sections that are better integrated with retail and, here's hoping, residential. Maybe kiosk type businesses like the ones at Crocker Park would best serve this purpose.

 

http://www.crockerpark.com/tenant/dining/restaurants-and-eateries/karls-corned-beef

 

If this section of boardwalk remains isolated, it fails. But you have to think the big plan is all about making connections through a larger network of boardwalks.

So which restaurant(s) is part of Phase 1?

 

I wonder what lucky facility gets to have their building adjacent to the the rail line and bridge.

 

The new national headquarters for http://www.nad.org/

 

So which restaurant(s) is part of Phase 1?

 

I believe all of the restaurants that were named yesterday are for phase 1.

So which restaurant(s) is part of Phase 1?

 

The 4 listed are all said to be part of the first phase, althought that would make the first phase map wrong, since its only showing the clunky office building and hotel as the first phase and not the outlots that will be Toby Keiths etc....     

These 1-2 story outparcels are not appropriate for the site.  I also agree with many here that the entertainment venues should be along the waterfront.  I don't understand the planning logic of isolating the bars from each other or from the river.  I especially don't understand why the waterfront is separated from the development by so much landscaping.  The layout as a whole seems poorly conceived.

My last post was deleted, but yes I did read the article, and it left me feeling that these 1-2 story outparcels are not appropriate for the site.  I also agree with many here that the entertainment venues should be clustered along the waterfront.  I don't understand the planning logic of isolating the bars from each other and from the waterfront.

People movement.  why should it all be clusted in one area.  this is a neighborhood.

Most neighborhoods don't have bars scattered so widely.  Most neighborhoods take efforts to avoid that sort of thing.  Besides, I thought the point of an entertainment district was to have some clustering for synergy purposes.  Like East 4th.  And I thought the point of a waterfront development was to focus on the waterfront.  Here it seems like an afterthought. 

Most neighborhoods don't have bars scattered so widely.  Most neighborhoods take efforts to avoid that sort of thing.  Besides, I thought the point of an entertainment district was to have some clustering for synergy purposes.  Like East 4th.  And I thought the point of a waterfront development was to focus on the waterfront.  Here it seems like an afterthought. 

 

See it's not just an entertainment district.  this is being built out as a neighborhood.  This isn't existing infrastructure.  I think it looks fine with exception of the parking lot in the middle unless that is placed there for future expansion.

^^ It opens it up to the public. Do you want the entire East Bank to be like Shooters? Where restaurant patrons have access but no the public? Shooters is an awesome space! I rather have the West Bank fill up like that to offer that experience and have the east bank with the boardwalk

^^ It opens it up to the public. Do you want the entire East Bank to be like Shooters? Where restaurant patrons have access but no the public? Shooters is an awesome space! I rather have the West Bank fill up like that to offer that experience and have the east bank with the boardwalk

 

No.  I would keep the boardwalk but place entertainment venues alongside it, instead of separating the venues from the river.  I've never seen a boardwalk lined with concrete-encased shrubberies like you'd find outside the mall. 

^^ It opens it up to the public. Do you want the entire East Bank to be like Shooters? Where restaurant patrons have access but no the public? Shooters is an awesome space! I rather have the West Bank fill up like that to offer that experience and have the east bank with the boardwalk

 

No.  I would keep the boardwalk but place entertainment venues alongside it, instead of separating the venues from the river.  I've never seen a boardwalk lined with concrete-encased shrubberies like you'd find outside the mall. 

Oh... for the love of Christ!