Just noticed that FEB phase II site plan was on the City Planning Commission agenda last week: http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2013/11152013/index.php

 

Looks just like the renderings we've seen before, but the final site plans are shown in the photo gallery: http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2013/11152013/index.php#photo

Just noticed that FEB phase II site plan was on the City Planning Commission agenda last week: http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2013/11152013/index.php

 

Looks just like the renderings we've seen before, but the final site plans are shown in the photo gallery: http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2013/11152013/index.php#photo

 

^ note the stark difference in roof design from pic 1 (impressive!) and pic 2 (not-so-great).

Here's the site plan......

 

Has there been any indication how the Aloft hotel has been doing since it opened???  I have heard a bit about its WXYZ bar and some events that have gone on there, but I would hope that the hotel has been busy / booked, etc over these past few months.

I'm active on TripAdvisor and the reviews are generally pretty good, but it sounds like they have some work to do. The manager seems very responsive to complaints on TA about the hotel, which is great, but the lack of a concierge to be able to tell people about what's happening downtown seems a big hole, and the room design isn't something everyone seems to be in love with. "Cold" and "Ikea-like" were mentioned repeatedly, which is great for a boutique hotel in NYC but maybe doesn't jive well for a cleveland traveler. Complaints about noise from the train and the music from the restaurant below were also mentioned, which aren't deal-breakers, but you really want someone to have a well-rested stay when they come to Cleveland and stay in a hotel.

"Cold" and "Ikea-like" is the signature design for Aloft, so that really shouldn't surprise any traveler who does basic due diligence on their hotel before booking.

So much surface parking tears the urban soul out of the design

If rendering #2 is correct, it appears that an extra floor was added and maybe some larger apartments on the right that extended above the roof were reconfigured.  Maybe that is how the number of apartments were increased?

So much surface parking tears the urban soul out of the design

 

It sure would be nice if the apartments are leased quickly so PH 3 can begin and eliminate the giant parking lot hole between aLoft and the apartment building.

Is there a phase 3 to this project? In the layout above it shows a huge parking lot between the apartments and Aloft, but in some of the renderings it appears there is a parking garage with street level retail, etc. I really wish this is part of Phase 2, but judging by the layout above it doesn't look like it is.  :?

Is there a phase 3 to this project? In the layout above it shows a huge parking lot between the apartments and Aloft, but in some of the renderings it appears there is a parking garage with street level retail, etc. I really wish this is part of Phase 2, but judging by the layout above it doesn't look like it is.  :?

 

Yes. Even though this leasing plan from 2012 shows there are only phases I and II, the townhouses along the planned West 11th Street were to be part of "future development." However, there was to be a parking deck next to the Waterfront Line built as part of Phase II according to this graphic.....

 

Seems like the parking is tucked away as much as possible. between the building and the tracks.

"Cold" and "Ikea-like" is the signature design for Aloft, so that really shouldn't surprise any traveler who does basic due diligence on their hotel before booking.

 

An Aloft hotel in (tiny) Green Bay, WI is my company's default hotel for corporate HQ visits - and there have been varied opinions from our employees. I love the look/feel of the place - but others can't stand it... and long for the days of the totally out-of-date Country Inn & Suites where we used to stay... So I guess this is not an uncommon viewpoint.

 

In the long run- the Aloft should be a great downtown CLE choice. Trendy and affordable.

^ yep almost all of the alofts i have ever seen or stayed in are all alike inside and out. the one in cle could not be a more typical version, unfortunately (yes, i was hoping for a tower version like downtown brooklyn got at the same time oh well). but i like the aloft brand, its attractive, modern and a good value.

 

Seems like the parking is tucked away as much as possible. between the building and the tracks.

 

i love how the port authority land is cleared in that render. implying even more to come. thats the best part of all.

 

^got rid of that damn cement silo...

and got rid of the browns stadium.

Nothing is actually cleared. They just used a google earth image of the land at an angle. The maps is flat and represents a satellite image. They didn't bother adding in 3d building other than the project itself.

I'm active on TripAdvisor and the reviews are generally pretty good, but it sounds like they have some work to do. The manager seems very responsive to complaints on TA about the hotel, which is great, but the lack of a concierge to be able to tell people about what's happening downtown seems a big hole, and the room design isn't something everyone seems to be in love with. "Cold" and "Ikea-like" were mentioned repeatedly, which is great for a boutique hotel in NYC but maybe doesn't jive well for a cleveland traveler. Complaints about noise from the train and the music from the restaurant below were also mentioned, which aren't deal-breakers, but you really want someone to have a well-rested stay when they come to Cleveland and stay in a hotel.

 

Yeah, I've been hawking TripAdvisor (and Yelp) too about Aloft and the U. Circle Courtyard/Marriott... I think the comments are generally pretty positive.  Initially there was more gripes with the (N.S.) train rumbling/noise, but that has died down pretty much.  ... I agree with Straphanger, those who have some issue with the somewhat minimalist nature of the hotel ("Ikea-like"), probably aren't familiar with the Aloft brand.  And most seem to like the funky almost counter-culture décor....

 

The great news of this development is that Phase I tackled the largest, riskiest (large new class-A office space + hotel separated from core downtown) and engineering-ly most difficult aspect of this development.... Although most of us probably feel the residential/apt aspect is the most important along with the retail, these aspects should be less onerous, although I understand any large-scale, all-new building, esp apartments even given the high demand downtown, is challenging from a financing aspect.

 

Yeah, I've been hawking TripAdvisor (and Yelp) too about Aloft and the U. Circle Courtyard/Marriott... I think the comments are generally pretty positive.  Initially there was more gripes with the (N.S.) train rumbling/noise, but that has died down pretty much.

 

The second office building should provide a decent noise buffer from that noise -- if they are still planning an eight-story building on the north side of Front Street. FYI, my sister worked at Channel 3 and her office faced north overlooking the tracks. She said the trains didn't bother her except when she was on the phone. She would have to suspend conversations while the locomotives went by. Then she could talk/hear again. Granted, a 9-5 office is different than a hotel (or apartments) so that's what makes it a better buffer, IMHO.

The trains don't blow the horns (usually) and the glass is thick enough so you don't really hear the locomotives.  There is a little tremor occasionally from heavy gravel/coal cars if the speed/frequency is just right...

Does anyone know how much per sqft will be charged for the apartments?  $2.25 per sqft is the magical number needed to justify new construction so how are they pulling this off?

Here comes Phase II! The apartment building isn't mentioned because a variance isn't needed to build an apartment building in a downtown residential district. The Building Department can issue a building permit (and probably already has) for the apartment building without the involvement of the Board of Zoning Appeals. For the other uses, the developer's application for a building permit had to first get rejected by the Building Department before it could then request variances for these nonconforming uses....

 

So in addition to the apartment building, I count three restaurants, two large entertainment venues and a five-story office building with parking garage:

 

> one-story 3,000 square foot restaurant

> free-standing, 5,500 square foot one-story restaurant

> one-story 6,281 square foot restaurant

> 12,000 square foot one-story entertainment venue

> one-story, 16,000 square foot entertainment venue

> five-story, 272,426 square foot office building and parking garage

__________________

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bza/agenda/2014/crr01-06-2014.pdf

 

Board of Zoning Appeals

601 Lakeside Avenue, Room 519

Cleveland, Ohio 44114-1071

216/664-2582 - Fax: 216/664-3281

 

January 6, 2014

 

9:30

Calendar No. 13-258: 1056 Old River Road Joe Cimperman

11 Notices

Flats East Development LLC, owner, appeals to erect a free-standing, 5,500 square foot

one-story restaurant and a 12,000 square foot one-story entertainment venue on acreage

located in a Downtown Residential District; no residential use is proposed and at least

51% of floor area must be devoted to residential use pursuant to Section 337.081© of

the Cleveland Codified Ordinances. Filed 11-27-13)

 

9:30

Calendar No. 13-259: 1150 Old River Road Joe Cimperman

11 Notices

Flats East Development LLC, owner, appeals to erect a one-story 6,281 square foot res-

taurant on acreage located in a Downtown Residential District; proposing no residential

use and at least 51% of floor area must be devoted to residential use pursuant to Section

337.081© of the Cleveland Codified Ordinances.

(Filed 11-27-13)

 

9:30

Calendar No. 13-259: 1150 Old River Road Joe Cimperman

11 Notices

Flats East Development LLC, owner, appeals to erect a one-story, 16,000 square foot en-

tertainment venue and a five-story, 272,426 square foot office building and parking gar-

age located on acreage in a Downtown Residential zoning district; no residential use is

proposed and at least 51% of floor area must be devoted to residential use pursuant to

Section 337.081© of the Cleveland Codified Ordinances.

(Filed 11-27-13)

 

9:30

Calendar No. 13-259: 1150 Old River Road Joe Cimperman

11 Notices

Flats East Development LLC, owner, appeals to erect a one-story 3,000 square foot res-

taurant on acreage located in a Downtown Residential District; proposing no residential

use and at least 51% of floor area must be devoted to residential use pursuant to Section

337.081© of the Cleveland Codified Ordinances.

 

^Great! Good find at 12:30 in the morning. It's going to be interesting to see how all of these buildings tie together in some way. From the site plan they all look rather scattered. The great thing about the olde Flats was that you could easily go from one place to another. It was very walkable especially in cold weather. I hope that area gets to the point where something other than food/entertainment is considered. A small walkable retail area that could sustain itself would be my hope in the long run.

^^so many one-story buildings? what a waste of space. These guys want to create a true neighborhood---so why all the one story units?

^^so many one-story buildings? what a waste of space. These guys want to create a true neighborhood---so why all the one story units?

 

Good lord!  Complain complain complain!  When finished, the FEB will be one of the most dense areas in the city.  It's expensive to build multistory concrete & steel buildings!  You need high rents to justify the high construction costs.  If it worked, they would do it.  But it doesn't.  Quit complaining!

^thank you

 

In addition, most of the 1 story buildings are restaurants and entertainment venues nearer to the river where you would not want taller structures blocking the views or developing a "wall" along the river.  If you examine the site plan it is clear that they want open spaces and well spaced lower buildings closer to the river, with taller structures more to the east.

^^so many one-story buildings? what a waste of space. These guys want to create a true neighborhood---so why all the one story units?

 

One look at the site plan explains the context and purpose of the one story buildings.

 

Was the 5 story building part of the original plans or is this new? 

 

I am guessing that they have a substantial tenant lined up for the building.  And 272,000+ square feet is a lot for a five story building.  Even if a tenant took a third of the space, it would still be over 90,000 square feet which is a lot a space.

Was the 5 story building part of the original plans or is this new? 

 

I am guessing that they have a substantial tenant lined up for the building.  And 272,000+ square feet is a lot for a five story building.  Even if a tenant took a third of the space, it would still be over 90,000 square feet which is a lot a space.

 

Where would this building go? The RTA loop?

Was the 5 story building part of the original plans or is this new? 

 

I am guessing that they have a substantial tenant lined up for the building.  And 272,000+ square feet is a lot for a five story building.  Even if a tenant took a third of the space, it would still be over 90,000 square feet which is a lot a space.

 

Where would this building go? The RTA loop?

 

That is a significant amount of square footage for a 5 story office building so I assume that number includes the parking garage.

 

I would tend to agree that they probably have a tenant for a good chunk of the space.  I would imagine financing would have been even more difficult (than it has been) without a tenant close to signing (although nothing has been announced and Fairmount has indicated that they have been very pleased with the leasing of the E and Y Building so maybe they are just taking a chance and building on spec.)

 

I believe the building is going on Front Street across from the e and y tower.  Does Wolstein even own the land in the loop?

 

I believe the building is going on Front Street across from the e and y tower.  Does Wolstein even own the land in the loop?

 

Yes it is and no they don't. :)

Was the 5 story building part of the original plans or is this new? 

 

I am guessing that they have a substantial tenant lined up for the building.  And 272,000+ square feet is a lot for a five story building.  Even if a tenant took a third of the space, it would still be over 90,000 square feet which is a lot a space.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking.  I almost think this could be a typo..Haha.  My concern is that may be extremely suburban.  We're talking a third the size of key tower, and 55 stories shorter.  That's crazy.

 

 

And I would not be surprised at all to see DDRC move their Headquarters to the Flats...

^ Except that DDR just built (within the last five years) a craprastic suburban campus in Beachwood. 

^I'm guessing you've never been in that place?  Its one of the nicest office complex in NE ohio

i am sure he means craptastic in the sense of where its located and layout

I don't doubt that it's nice. I've heard its neighbor, Eaton Centre, is absolutely stunning. But their zip codes take the air out of most their appeal to me. I'd gladly take either building in FEB, but both corps seem to have taken an affirmative action the past few years to say "No thanks!" 

Yeah, but 275k sqft is immense.  I despise the fact its spread out over 5 stories.  Its clearly for one large tenant with a floorplan like that.

 

Or maybe the apartment bldg is 275k sqft, and it was supposed to say that.  I just dont recall a large office building component in phase 2.

^Like I suggested above...the square footage probably includes the parking garage.

I don't recall seeing plans for an office building having its square footage include the parking garage.

 

So 275,000 square feet divided by five floors is 55,000 square feet per floor. The narrowest point between Front Street and the NS railroad tracks is 100 feet, right by the Waterfront Line. Its 630 feet from the Waterfront Line to West 9th. But it only needs to be 550 feet long x 100 feet wide to equal 55,000 sf per floor. Of course that leaves no room for a parking garage in that plot of land. So either the parking garage is included in the 275,000 sf or the parking deck will be elsewhere at FEB.

 

EDIT: I really want to see a site plan of this. I just remembered that the port authority is a key player in the financing for Flats East Bank. The port authority owns the land inside the Waterfront Line loop and there is enough space inside the loop for a building to have up to 100,000 sf per floor, if so desired. Maybe I was too quick to dismiss the possibility that the office building could be built inside the rail loop. So that's why I want to see a site plan.

This is the latest and greatest rendering that I've seen:

 

Versus the old:

 

Here is a rendering of the building within the loop from earlier in the thread.  I count 6, maybe 7 stories?

 

^ I don't think that rendering is at all reflective of the current plan.

 

I wish it was though. That rendering is much denser, and has a nice street grid.

^I'm with you.  Not a fan of how the site plan has evolved since then.

 

Regarding the new office building: I'm guessing Hts is right and it's just the sum total of the leasable sf and the parking garage for "Building 11" on the leasing plan KJP posted last month:

Here's the site plan......

 

 

Regarding the new office building: I'm guessing Hts is right and it's just the sum total of the leasable sf and the parking garage for "Building 11" on the leasing plan KJP posted last month:

 

 

A plan which has a surface parking lot for Building 11. So that has changed. Some else has in order to reflect the square footage planned -- is it just the addition of a parking garage? I will make inquiries.

 

EDIT: I just noticed the BZA agenda item for the office building, parking garage and one-story 16,000-sf entertainment venue lists to 1150 Front Avenue. GoogleMaps (FWIW) places that address at approximately the intersection of Front and West 11th as shown in the above leasing plan graphic.

Phase 2 on their website says this...

 

"Phase II of the Flats East Bank project will usher in a 140-unit luxury residential complex along the water and will include; additional retail choices including local apparel, home furnishings, specialty shops and boutiques, a 1200-foot riverfront boardwalk, and an urban beach with even more to come."

 

Not sure how true that is, but it would be nice to see other retail options down there instead of just restaurants/bars.

Phase 2 on their website says this...

 

"Phase II of the Flats East Bank project will usher in a 140-unit luxury residential complex along the water and will include; additional retail choices including local apparel, home furnishings, specialty shops and boutiques, a 1200-foot riverfront boardwalk, and an urban beach with even more to come."

 

Not sure how true that is, but it would be nice to see other retail options down there instead of just restaurants/bars.

 

 

After reading the previous post, I wasnt sure exactly what an "urban beach" was, so after some googling I found a definition and a couple pics of an urban beach at HTO Park in Toronto, Canada.  Something similar to this would be interesting down along the Cuyahoga!!!

 

 

Urban beach, or city beach, is defined by urban planners as an artificially created environment in an urban setting that simulates a public beachfront through the use of sand, umbrellas and seating elements. It does not include swimming or any sort of natural sloping shoreline into the water. The very point of the urban beach is to insert a beach atmosphere into an urban area that would otherwise be typical cityscape.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_beach

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought the only time a beach was involved was if Phase II didn't happen as quickly as it appears now.  To finish off the acreage to the river they were to install a beach, volleyball courts and a large green area.  Is a beach still in play but on a smaller scale still in play or maybe the website hasn't been edited recently?

I don't think a beach or volleyball courts are in discussion anymore

Here is a cool aerial from these guys  https://www.facebook.com/aerialaspect

It will be nice to see a building on that surface parking lot in the next phase.

Anyone hear if FEB's variances were approved today by BZA, or even if the meeting was held due to the weather?

100+ foot deep cement and re-bar pillars are being created.  It's good to see some action going on down there.