January 23, 201411 yr I don't think I saw any renderings of the office building until that video. I took a screen grab but do not know how to insert pictures to a post.... :wtf: Any way, it is a long and narrow five story building which looks like it was taken out of Beachwood and inserted on the sloping landscape. Not terrible though.
January 23, 201411 yr Screenshot from the video of the proposed office building. This would be the spot north of the EY tower. I'm going to reserve my full opinion until it's finalized and built... But my initial reaction is - ouch. I want vertical buildings!!!
January 23, 201411 yr I'm going to reserve my full opinion until it's finalized and built... But my initial reaction is - ouch. I want vertical buildings!!! ^I'm not at all bothered by this building's height. It's a good size and, really, bonus office space in an off-beat location (for new class-A office development) based on the success of the E-Y tower… which IS a substantially tall office building.
January 23, 201411 yr I'm going to reserve my full opinion until it's finalized and built... But my initial reaction is - ouch. I want vertical buildings!!! ^I'm not at all bothered by this building's height. It's a good size and, really, bonus office space in an off-beat location (for new class-A office development) based on the success of the E-Y tower… which IS a substantially tall office building. I gotcha. It just looks like something that would be at chagrin highlands, not downtown. But it is what it is I presume.
January 23, 201411 yr "Someone"? Sorry... One of my friends who knows someone related to the Flats development. Don't want to start a rumor! I just want to know if anyone has heard anything. I've heard some buzz, but can't really say too much at this point because mostly I'm reading between the lines. It may be a lease renegotiation attempt because they have other options. But it would not surprise me in the least.
January 24, 201411 yr i like the look of the building. it looks like there will be a roof top patio or something.
January 24, 201411 yr I'm going to reserve my full opinion until it's finalized and built... But my initial reaction is - ouch. I want vertical buildings!!! ^I'm not at all bothered by this building's height. It's a good size and, really, bonus office space in an off-beat location (for new class-A office development) based on the success of the E-Y tower… which IS a substantially tall office building. I gotcha. It just looks like something that would be at chagrin highlands, not downtown. But it is what it is I presume. I'm sure the building design was kept low to preserve the views for the EY tower.
January 25, 201411 yr I'm not convinced that it was left at a "low height" to preserve views from the E&Y tower. First off, a majority of the views from E&Y are to the East and West. Second, based on the linear distance between the two structures, which is fairly significant in a design focal sense, a building 3 times the height of the proposed, and slender would not really compromise the views (Put a pencil directly in front of your eye, and then put it 3 feet in front of your eye. Get my drift?). This building, as stated was designed similar to a Chagrin Highlands building because it's most likely appeasing a Chagrin highlands type tenant. Singular tenant therefore demanding a lot of open contiguous floor space. Unlike E&Y. I honestly like the building as long as it doesn't have a huge parking lot in front of it. I think it's modern, and sleek. The only thing I don't like is, it kind of looks like E&Y's little brother. Very similar architecture and design, just longer. Almost looks too much like a phase two of an office park project. Similar to the towers at Rockside and 77.
January 25, 201411 yr The office building size & height is driven by market demand, typical floor plates that are in demand, and the overall amount of square footage. 6 stories is optimal for an office complex this size, maximizes efficiency, minimizes construction costs. Going higher than 6 floors substantially raises the costs of steel, elevators, HVAC systems, etc
January 26, 201411 yr The office building size & height is driven by market demand, typical floor plates that are in demand, and the overall amount of square footage. 6 stories is optimal for an office complex this size, maximizes efficiency, minimizes construction costs. Going higher than 6 floors substantially raises the costs of steel, elevators, HVAC systems, etc While I agree with the market demand coment, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the construction cost comment. There was a reason that throughout the 20's and 30's, developers were reaching for the skies with highrises. The cost and efficiency were lower due to less land surface area, less foundation work, but similar steel and elevators just stacked up. A building seen above will probably have 4 elevator shaft terminals, whereas a highrise may only have one. This is probably for a different thread, and don't want to venture off topic. There is very good cost analysis out there for floor plate size and cost efficiency. Mayybe with the weather being as crummy as it is today, I'll dig some stuff up, and start a thread. Could be good conversation.
January 26, 201411 yr A Chagrin Highlands tenant for a Chagrin Highlands (type) developer... I've made that assumption multiple times, however, things just don't add up. In addition, I can't imagine Wolstein wouldn't have announced that months ago. What's there to hide?
January 26, 201411 yr I honestly like the building as long as it doesn't have a huge parking lot in front of it. I think it's modern, and sleek. The only thing I don't like is, it kind of looks like E&Y's little brother. Very similar architecture and design, just longer. Almost looks too much like a phase two of an office park project. Similar to the towers at Rockside and 77. Just judging from the still pic above, it sure as hell does not look like it's being designed around the concept of walkability. What is that, a cul-de-sac?
January 26, 201411 yr ^don't quite understand what you are getting at. IF they build it, it will be located on Front Street directly across the street from the E and Y tower.
January 26, 201411 yr ^ Street? You mean across the parking lot? I'm basing my comment on the pic above. That doesn't look like an urban grid to me.
January 26, 201411 yr ^yes street. Base on the discussion above it will be located on Front Street. There is a site plan somewhere in the thread.
January 26, 201411 yr Yes that was called building 11. Yes, it's shown to be across Front Street. My point is that it doesn't look like it will front the sidewalk. Now I'm basing this on the image above since that's all we have to go on. For whatever reason there looks to be an island in the middle of Front St and a parking lot north of it, adjacent to the building. That's not good urban design. In that regard it appears counterproductive to the walkability aspect that FEB was supposed to embrace.
January 26, 201411 yr ^it looks pretty close to the street to me. It might have a small buffer similar to many buildings in downtown DC which is probably one of the top ten urban cities in the US.
January 26, 201411 yr I think the elevation change along Front St. as it drops down from W9th. would be a challenge to have it interact with the sidewalk much. That along with what appears to be a couple floors of parking. I like the building and where it's placed. I can't tell but from the image it looks what appears to be terraces on 4 of the floors which would bring some activity to the exterior wall. Guess we will have to wait for a better render to tell for sure. I hope they can sign some leases and build it.
January 26, 201411 yr ^if this is an accurate rending it also answers the question being posed by KJP a few pages back regarding the location of the parking garage associated with the building (whether the building was on top of the garage or whether the garage was next to it). It appears that the parking is indeed below the building (preferable) if, again, this is an accurate rendering.
January 26, 201411 yr Author Thanks for posting an interesting, conceptual rendering of the office building. But let's keep in mind that's all it is at this point. I am not aware of a timetable for submitting specific designs for the office building to the Planning Commission. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 27, 201411 yr i like it. is that sandstone trim? looks nice. not sure if those are balconies or not, if so its a waste they will never be used. doesnt seem to be a problem with how it abuts the st either given its an office bldg. no, they are not being super creative, but those long floor plates will be enticing to a lot of businesses. seems like they definately have a client in mind for it.
January 28, 201411 yr A Chagrin Highlands tenant for a Chagrin Highlands (type) developer... I've made that assumption multiple times, however, things just don't add up. In addition, I can't imagine Wolstein wouldn't have announced that months ago. What's there to hide? You're not talking about DDR, are you? I thought you were referencing this earlier in the thread, but the East Bank of the Flats is not a DDR project. It's a Wolstein Group/Fairmount Properties project. And although Scott Wolstein's family started Developers Diversified Realty, Scott left the company in 2011. So I was confused as to why you thought there'd be any DDR connection here.
January 28, 201411 yr regarding the relative disappointment on the height of the next office building, a rule of thumb exists in office buildings that 4 spaces be provided for every 1,000 sq ft of office space. Of course there are exceptions to that rule but it's pretty standard. If the parking doesn't really exist (it doesn't) then the height of the building is limited.
January 28, 201411 yr A Chagrin Highlands tenant for a Chagrin Highlands (type) developer... I've made that assumption multiple times, however, things just don't add up. In addition, I can't imagine Wolstein wouldn't have announced that months ago. What's there to hide? You're not talking about DDR, are you? I thought you were referencing this earlier in the thread, but the East Bank of the Flats is not a DDR project. It's a Wolstein Group/Fairmount Properties project. And although Scott Wolstein's family started Developers Diversified Realty, Scott left the company in 2011. So I was confused as to why you thought there'd be any DDR connection here. I think W28th's only point was that it looks just like something you would expect from Wolstein, who has never done anything remotely urban, having come from DDR--a company that only does suburban-type developments.
January 28, 201411 yr ^The Wolstein family developed the US Bank Building on Playhouse Square. I would imagine Scott had his hands in it to some extent. Not the greatest looking building in the world but it is "urban".
January 28, 201411 yr ^The Wolstein family developed the US Bank Building on Playhouse Square. I would imagine Scott had his hands in it to some extent. Not the greatest looking building in the world but it is "urban". Actually that building was done mostly by Ross Farro in partnership with Wolstein.
January 28, 201411 yr I've understood from day one that the FEB project is Cleveland's answer to Crocker Park so this doesn't offend me at all. It's part of the plan
January 28, 201411 yr Some of the liveliest neighborhoods I know of are filled with 2-6 story buildings.
January 28, 201411 yr Author Some of the liveliest neighborhoods I know of are filled with 2-6 story buildings. Exactly. Being closer to the street makes it easier for tenants to interact with it. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 28, 201411 yr Some of the liveliest neighborhoods I know of are filled with 2-6 story buildings. Exactly. Being closer to the street makes it easier for tenants to interact with it. I have no problem with shorter buildings--as long as there are lots of them and not a sea of parking lots.
January 28, 201411 yr How the buildings interact is the big thing. Anyhow, here's hoping for the best!
January 29, 201411 yr The latest DCA report has a better pic of the new office building on page 4. looks pretty good to me! http://www.downtowncleveland.com/media/200605/Q42013_final.pdf
January 29, 201411 yr The latest DCA report has a better pic of the new office building on page 4. looks pretty good to me! http://www.downtowncleveland.com/media/200605/Q42013_final.pdf Looks like the same pic to me -- sans the WKYC banner over the street.
January 29, 201411 yr Who is that GIANT man on page three? dude looks like dolph lundgren Haha! I was thinking the same thing - he's MASSIVE
January 29, 201411 yr Author I MUST BREAK YOU "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 29, 201411 yr The latest DCA report has a better pic of the new office building on page 4. looks pretty good to me! http://www.downtowncleveland.com/media/200605/Q42013_final.pdf Looks like the same pic to me -- sans the WKYC banner over the street. Yes, but its clearer and offers a little bit more detail...
January 30, 201411 yr Some of the liveliest neighborhoods I know of are filled with 2-6 story buildings. Some people complained when Wolstein tore down the old buildings on the East Bank for this project and most of those buildings were short. Now people complain the buildings taking their place aren't tall enough. Well, you can't please everyone. I think demand is the number one driver. If the developers thought they could fill taller buildings at the rental rates that would require, I'm sure they would.
February 10, 201411 yr for a comparison, development around the gowanus canal, a flats-like area in brooklyn: http://nypost.com/2014/02/05/with-its-namesake-canal-finally-getting-clean-gowanus-grows/
February 10, 201411 yr Author for a comparison, development around the gowanus canal, a flats-like area in brooklyn: http://nypost.com/2014/02/05/with-its-namesake-canal-finally-getting-clean-gowanus-grows/ Fascinating area! Still some old structures standing -- like Flats East Banks south of Main Ave. And Gowanus is surrounded by established, high-density neighborhoods, which FEB lacks. BTW, one slight diversion from FEB -- the Smith-9th Street station has perhaps the best view in NYC (of Manhattan) as it an extra-elevated station, perched on a high-level bridge over the canal. https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8113/8684220658_4438098320_o.jpg EDIT: to bring it back to FEB, here: :-) http://archive.wkyc.com/news/article/301506/3/Cleveland-Flats-development-revives-Waterfront-Line "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 11, 201411 yr yes thats the highest el station in town, although there are others like it that also have great views. and of course, we have a dramatic waterfront rapid loop in the flats with stunning views too, so even that compares well enough. i thought that style of new gowanus apt bldg development would look especially sharp along the river in place of those west bank flats parking lots. in fact i think something very much like that is very doable and quite likely there at some point in the not distant future.
February 11, 201411 yr for a comparison, development around the gowanus canal, a flats-like area in brooklyn: http://nypost.com/2014/02/05/with-its-namesake-canal-finally-getting-clean-gowanus-grows/ Tell me you went for a swim there!
February 12, 201411 yr From their FB page: "Over the next two days, we'll be sharing great info about all of the new and upcoming things going on in the Flats East Bank with WKYC Channel 3 News. Be sure to catch us live tomorrow morning from 5AM-7AM and again on 2/13 at the same time!" There is another a cool rendering of the front of the apartment building, which I don't think has been posted before. Appears to have ground level retail.
February 12, 201411 yr Here is the video from WKYC Channel 3. http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/2014/02/12/flats-resurgence--inside-look-at-phase-i/5393701/
February 13, 201411 yr Phase II of Flats East Bank went vertical today. This is the view from the Phase 1 office tower.
February 13, 201411 yr Awesome- thanks for posting, and welcome to UO, Mr. Nagy! Keep the updates coming!
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