^ Dude, no need for the personal attacks on the guy, let him express his opinion, if it is of little value, that will show from the lack of response it initiates. If that is the way he feels then fine, but no need for name calling.

Well, unfortunately Cbus is filled with sprawl and suburban apartment complexes.

 

Face it, besides OSU, Cbus sucks the big one. Well, at least for those of us who dont drive pickup trucks everywhere we go.

 

Trolling already, I see. Although your point is taken what with Cincinnati's excellent light-rail...err, subway...um, streetcar....oh wait, they're just doing a study on one and the other two are no where to be seen. Just like Columbus, except we finished our study. Take THAT Cincinnati.

 

Gee if the only thing Columbus can do better than Cincy is finish a study, then no wonder why it is a shi!!y town.

 

You just pwned your own city, n00b.  :shoot:

^ Dude, no need for the personal attacks on the guy, let him express his opinion, if it is of little value, that will show from the lack of response it initiates. If that is the way he feels then fine, but no need for name calling.

 

i agree with the no name calling part...

 

but 3 of the first 5 posts cinci_guy has made:

 

"Because Columbus is a crappy town."

"Face it, besides OSU, Cbus sucks the big one."

"Gee if the only thing Columbus can do better than Cincy is finish a study, then no wonder why it is a shi!!y town"

 

none of that has any place here either

He's probably never even been to Columbus. Cincinnati isnt the most thriving place either... every major city in Ohio has its strong and weak points.

He's probably never even been to Columbus. Cincinnati isnt the most thriving place either... every major city in Ohio has its strong and weak points.

 

Ain't that the truth. Though here we like to dwell on the positive instead of having a pointless bitchfest.

I am just sick of people hating on Columbus. It is one of my favorite cities in the U.S. It should get more attention on this forum for its attributes and the positive developments that are going on in the city's core.

I am just sick of people hating on Columbus. It is one of my favorite cities in the U.S. It should get more attention on this forum for its attributes and the positive developments that are going on in the city's core.

 

I am glad you enjoy Cbus, for me, I find it to be rather uninspiring altogether personally.

I am just sick of people hating on Columbus. It is one of my favorite cities in the U.S. It should get more attention on this forum for its attributes and the positive developments that are going on in the city's core.

 

I am glad you enjoy Cbus, for me, I find it to be rather uninspiring altogether personally.

 

There are depressing aspects to Columbus, but fortunately most are safely relegated to her hideous suburbs. For a person so inclined to live in one of Columbus' many urban neighborhoods, however (watch some of these little promos: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=11663.0), there is a wide enough range of options to inspire a person altogether, whatever that means.

Those of us who rag on Columbus don't hate it. We're just frustrated at the institutional conservatism that stands in the way of real progress. There are good things happening in a city with a good foundation, but only a fraction of the good things that should be happening. We have a city government and a transit agency that aren't on the same page. We have a transit agency that stupidly canned plans for light rail at the same time the city unveiled plans for a downtown streetcar. Will the proposed streetcar be compatible with eventual light rail? If the streetcar is being done to attract and shape downtown development, why not build a complete light rail systems to shape development in the region? Not to mention to serve commuters. In Columbus, these questions not only don't get answered, they don't even get asked.

Look, the only place where walking home from bars works is from bars within walking distance of your house.  If you live in Mt. Adams you have to get a cab if you're at a downtown bar or vice verse.  The subways don't run late in the cities that have them except New York and even there the overnight service is so infrequent people take cabs anyway.  If you're out late enough you can ride the subway when it fires back up at 5:30.  Some cities have night owl bus service but unless it's damn obvious how the service works when you've been drinking you aren't going to be able to figure it out. 

 

The Chicago Transit Authority is a 24 hour system.  The Red and Blue Line L's (the two busiest in the system) run 24hours.  The Red Line has 15 minute headways all night.  Numerous bus lines offer owl service with decent headways.

 

Presumably if you are looking to ride transit when you are drunk, and if you already live in the city, then you know how it works.

 

I'd be interested in seeing how the figures would play out if Ohio State's figure's were not included.  Isn't that the largest campus in the United States?  IIRC there are nearly 85,000 students.  Because students are counted in the population that is going to skew the average age of Columbus downwards.  It would be interesting to see a comparison of all these cities with students factored out.  It also makes the brain drain look worse than it might other wise be.  It simply isn't realistic to expect the majority of graduates of any college to stick around in the ol' college town after graduation, excepting places that are commuter college type institutions to begin with.

 

The problem facing Columbus is the same problem that faces all these similar midwestern cities.  They all tout themselves as being a "great place to raise a family", with a reasonable cost of living and an easy going quality of life.  But for young people without families, much of that has no appeal.  In fact, "family friendly" is often a code word for "single people hostile".  I sure don't spend much time attending "family friendly" affairs.

 

These cities are all targeting a niche that not what the best and brightest want.  Until somebody starts selling a product young people want to buy, they are going to continue to leave.

 

The urban neighborhoods of Columbus could not be more young-people friendly. Conversely, I would argue that aside from well-regarded schools, the "family friendly" suburbs--the Lewis Centers, Upper Arlingtons and Worthingtons and Powells--are pretty family UNfriendly, if lack of walkability and overcrowded classrooms are any indication.

 

Side note: Upper Arlington IS taking the progressive step of finally installing sidewalks, but there is a hard core of resistance that argues that doing so will lead to an explosion in crime.

 

Sigh...

I don't blame them, I wouldn't want all that Grandview trash infultrating my street either.

>In fact, "family friendly" is often a code word for "single people hostile".  I sure don't spend much time attending "family friendly" affairs.

 

There are two types of post-college people, those who are married and those who aren't.  The closer you get to 30, the more you get the get-your-act-together looks from the married people if you aren't, both your age and older.  New York, etc., serve as havens for people who don't want to grow up, have kids, put equity in a house, start getting up in the morning, and so on.  The people are only hostile if you let them to a certain extent, and they certainly have the right to give you a kick in the butt if you're still drifting around and don't have a real job at that age.  I go up to New York and see people I know who are 30, they're still going to parties with the same kinds of people, smoking pot and doing the same drugs, and acting like they're still 22 and their band is still going to make it or their paintings are going to sell for $15K apiece.  I think having relatives and married friends with kids around is important to keep you on track and not let years slip away drifting around.  Most people who move from the Midwest up to New York don't have relatives up there and won't have to deal with people with kids and mortgages on any kind of regular basis.  I think it's easy to wake up at age 35 in New York realizing you have no career, you have no equity in a house, and those dull people back home are getting way ahead of you. 

I don't blame them, I wouldn't want all that Grandview trash infultrating my street either.

 

*punch*

When parents talk about a town that is a nice place to raise kids, it's not the same as saying it's a nice place to BE a kid.

^WITNESS!

Most people who move from the Midwest up to New York don't have relatives up there and won't have to deal with people with kids and mortgages on any kind of regular basis.  I think it's easy to wake up at age 35 in New York realizing you have no career, you have no equity in a house, and those dull people back home are getting way ahead of you.

 

I personally have a real problem with generalizations like this.  Anyone who says something like this wrongly assumes that everyone else wants the same things and has the same goals that he/she does.  Frankly, I'm thrilled to be single, have no kids, growing my career, and living an enjoyable life while I'm young.  There is no rule that says you need to be married with children by the time you reach age 30.

 

It's no wonder, then, that people who don't share this vision run to the coasts--you keep laying guilt trips on people like us for not sharing your own utopian vision of life.  If it works for you, that's great, but it may not work for me.

>In fact, "family friendly" is often a code word for "single people hostile".  I sure don't spend much time attending "family friendly" affairs.

 

There are two types of post-college people, those who are married and those who aren't.  The closer you get to 30, the more you get the get-your-act-together looks from the married people if you aren't, both your age and older.  New York, etc., serve as havens for people who don't want to grow up, have kids, put equity in a house, start getting up in the morning, and so on.  The people are only hostile if you let them to a certain extent, and they certainly have the right to give you a kick in the butt if you're still drifting around and don't have a real job at that age.  I go up to New York and see people I know who are 30, they're still going to parties with the same kinds of people, smoking pot and doing the same drugs, and acting like they're still 22 and their band is still going to make it or their paintings are going to sell for $15K apiece.  I think having relatives and married friends with kids around is important to keep you on track and not let years slip away drifting around.  Most people who move from the Midwest up to New York don't have relatives up there and won't have to deal with people with kids and mortgages on any kind of regular basis.  I think it's easy to wake up at age 35 in New York realizing you have no career, you have no equity in a house, and those dull people back home are getting way ahead of you. 

 

1.) A single person can still build equity; they're called condos...

2.) Are you seriously generalizing single college grads as people with "no careers"?!?! I could understand if you meant college dropouts but anyone who has the kind of determination to finish up their degree is most likely going to persue a career... especially with the mounting debt from student loans...

3.) Families are time consuming and financially draining... Which is why I'm not getting married until I'm a least 28. If you're single and have some drive, it's a pretty efficient way to live.

Me, I'm just wondering how anybody can afford to fu©k around in NYC for 10-odd years without a trust fund.

^Some people get jobs, ya know.

2.) Are you seriously generalizing single college grads as people with "no careers"?!?! I could understand if you meant college dropouts but anyone who has the kind of determination to finish up their degree is most likely going to persue a career... especially with the mounting debt from student loans...

 

^Okay, well let me explain here that there is a decisive difference between people with real jobs who have recently been labeled "creative" and the people who are out there trying to make it in art, music, theater, writing, etc. who either do their thing just for others like them or are the sell-outs who are more or less the court entertainers of the so-called creative class and/or are just interested in being famous, no matter the means.

 

I definitely believe that most people benefit from living somewhere else during their life for a few years, however, I don't think that someone should expect to instantly be cool and have all these cool new friends and do all these cool new things just because they've moved, and they shouldn't have to live with some stigma over their heads because they return to their home town and can assuredly say that they prefer that place over the big city razmataz. 

 

Sorry not to give a more complete response, but let me end by saying my earlier post was written after getting a call this morning reporting that a certain 37 year-old self-proclaimed artist/feminist/cultural theorist had been spotted last night punching his girlfriend in a bar (I had almost gone to that place last night, and I probably would have gone over and dusted the guy).  Hypocricy is what irritates me more than anything, and there is no shortage of it in the segment of the population Columbus is supposedly in sore need of. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I see "family friendly" as a nice way of saying "sprawl" most of the time.

In my opinion, THIS is how you retain talented young employees.  You give companies that attract them deals that are too good to pass up on.  I'd be suprised if less than 10 of these 90 new employees take up residence downtown.  $70k/year, talented, young, and creative...that's what we need more of.

 

http://www.dispatch.com/business-story.php?story=dispatch/2007/01/23/20070123-C1-02.html

 

Ad agency is awarded $1.3 million in tax credits

Tuesday, January 23, 2007

Marla Matzer Rose

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

The Resource Interactive ad agency yesterday received more than a million reasons to expand its offices in the Arena District.  The Ohio Tax Credit Authority and the city, through its Downtown Office Incentive program, approved tax incentives worth $1.3 million for the online-marketing company, tied to the agency’s creation of 90 jobs within three years.

 

Brewmaster, there is a prevalent view out there that one reason a lot of young educated people leave is because of a lack of jobs.  I'm not sure I buy that.  Lack of jobs is as much an effect as a cause of the brain draing.  What is needed is to create an environment young, ambitious, aggressive, educated young people actually want to live in.

 

It's not a lack of jobs...it's a lack of a certain kind of jobs.  These are creative, energetic jobs like those routinely found in NYC and San Fran.  It's also uncommon for young employees working in creative fields to be making $70k/year.  That's just a phenomenal combination that can really contribute to downtown's vibrancy.

 

I understand your point, but jobs in Columbus are generally centered around working for the goverment, insurance companies and banks, but those jobs generally attract a different type of candidate.

What I'm saying is this: why are there so many creative people in San Francisco?  Is it because of all the creative oriented jobs?  Or was it that creative people first came to San Francisco, and they were the ones that started the companies that created the jobs?  It takes creative people to start creative businesses.  I think it is pretty clear that in the case of San Francisco, the people were there first. 

 

Obvisouly, there's a virtuous circle going on.  Once you've got the jobs, people want to come there, then the people become an asset that attracts more companies.  Silicon Valley is a classic example of this clustering effect.  So it is good to try to lure companies in creative industries.  But I'd argue that the better strategy to get creative jobs is to try to find way to achieve a small but critical mass of creative people.  They will be the ones that start the businesses that generate more jobs.  A city is better off with five creative entrepreneurs than a floor full of positions generated by an out of town company.

 

Cities spend lots of time trying to figure out how to lure jobs to town, but invest precious little time in trying to figure out how to create an environment that those young, creative, ambitious, educated people want to live in. 

 

It's nice to talk about "creating an environment", "organic growth", and "business incubators", or whatever else the catch phrase of the day is.  My original point was that I'm excited that Columbus is throwing money at actual future jobs (especially good-paying creative ones).  They still have some pet projects like the "SciTech campus", but they also know how to put the money were it will make a measurable, concrete impact.

I was just thinking of this today. The fact that Columbus is so overweight may scare single people off. Most people don't want to bust their ass at work to end up with a fat spouse. When I go home, I'm always struck by the number of fat people I see.

A city is better off with five creative entrepreneurs than a floor full of positions generated by an out of town company.

 

Good point.

 

Creative is sort of a loaded term.  I associate it with "the arts" (which is itself pretty open ended concept).

 

But maybe what is meant is perhaps what Aaron is talking about, entrepreneurship and buisness formation and growth, and possibly technological innovation. 

 

That type of creativity, not the artistic type.

 

 

 

 

 

I was just thinking of this today. The fact that Columbus is so overweight may scare single people off. Most people don't want to bust their ass at work to end up with a fat spouse. When I go home, I'm always struck by the number of fat people I see.

 

Explain Chicago's success:

 

According to Men's Fitness  magazine, Chicago is now America's fattest city.

THE TOP 10 FATTEST CITIES:

 

2006's 10 Fattest Cities are (with their 2005 ranking in parenthesis):

 

  1. Chicago (5)

  2. Las Vegas (9)

  3. Los Angeles (21 fittest)

  4. Dallas (6)

  5. Houston (1)

  6. Memphis, Tenn. (4)

  7. Long Beach, Calif. (20)

  8. El Paso, Texas (11)

  9. Kansas City, Mo. (18)

  10. Mesa, Ariz. (15)

It has nothing to do with weight; frankly, obesity is a problem EVERYWHERE.  And if it did, Chicago's success could easily be attributed to their delicious Gyros, beef, and deep dish pizza. *Drools*

Chicago is an interesting case.  It is a huge city and generalizations are difficult.  The stereotype may be of fat Polish guys on the Northwest Side cheering on "Da Bears".  But if you are in the professional neighborhoods on the north side of the city, it is a very different story.  There are large numbers of very thin, very attractive people.

 

Actually, almost all of those cities are rapidly growing.  Perhaps Columbus needs to be fatter.

From the 3/1/07 Dispatch:

 

City urged to retain young professionals

Columbus Chamber told they're key to future

Thursday, March 01, 2007

Marla Matzer Rose

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Columbus has come a long way in the past couple of decades, but its future will depend on its ability to attract and retain a shrinking and finicky pool of young professionals.  Erin Moriarty, of CBS News, and Rebecca Ryan, of Next Generation Consulting, spoke on those themes at the Columbus Chamber's annual meeting yesterday at the Greater Columbus Convention Center.  The breakfast event, in the center's Grand Ballroom, attracted about 1,200 people, the largest crowd for the group's yearly meeting.

 

More at http://www.dispatch.com/dispatch/contentbe/dispatch/2007/03/01/20070301-E2-00.html

 

From SNP newspapers, 4/4/07:

 

Ryan prepares plan for region to retain young people

By JENNIFER WRAY

 

Rebecca Ryan is no psychic, but a little more than six months after she began studying Columbus, Ryan is ready to read Central Ohio's palm.  Ryan is founder of Madison, Wis.-based Next Generation Consulting.  She was hired in September 2006 to study the city's "handprint" -- a compilation of the seven indexes that make places attractive to 20- and 30-something workers, who often choose where they live before finding employment.  They are:

 

* The breadth of job options and support for entrepreneurs;

* Lifelong learning opportunities;

* After-hours activities;

* A location's commitment to inclusion;

* The cost of living;

* Public parks and other green spaces; and

* How easy it is to get in, out and around town.

 

Ryan will present her findings at a "State of the Young Professionals" address 6 p.m. April 18 at the Wexner Center for the Arts, 1871 N. High St.

 

More at http://www.snponline.com/NEWS4-4/4-4_colyoungpros.html

 

I get so sick of the pessimistic attitude people have about Ohio. When I lived in Columbus, people would always complain about how boring it is. In Cincinnati they complain about how dirty it is and how they wouldn't want to raise a family here. One general consensus I see is that most people want to live somewhere warm, clean, and near a beach. I never hear anyone literally say "I want to live somewhere with a vibrant nightlife scene". Most big livable cities inevitably have a fair number of entertainment options. 

Cincinnati would be much cleaner if it had the same trash can laws as Columbus.

Not just trash but it's just older, industrial and vacant.

True - Columbus' fallout areas mainly consist of old big box stores and strip malls which are cleaner than industrial sites.

I absolutely hate the west side, as an UP student I look around and see everything you're not suppose to do. It's no wonder all those strip malls off of broad street are deteriorating; they're set so far back from broad street you have no clue what the hell is over there when you're viewing it from the road.

The very fact that our city council is looking to an outside source for this just goes to show that they don't get it. Turn Columbus into a real city and this city will be attractive to all kinds of people, not just yuppies. It's just maddening that something so obvious goes right over all their heads.

OK OK OK

The Columbus I live in is a haven for young professionals.

The Columbus I live in is urban, I haven't left the interior of 270 for 3 weeks.

I live near downtown, wake up catch the bus to  grad school.  Work out in the center of downtown overlooking the capitol.  Dine and eat at nice locally owned restaurants.  I see young professionals around me all day 24/7

There's beautiful and fit people abounds.

 

If you live in suburban Columbus your impression is very different, but urban columbus is doing a great job of catering to the young professionals as it is.  Compared to just 10 years ago, Columbus' young professional scene is already 80 percent better.

 

And a lot of the creative young professionals are employeed in retail and fashion.  The Short North is already transforming from a fine art street to a local fashion street.  In the last year about 5 local fashion designers have opened spaces.  Most of my friends who are young and hip work for Abercrombie and the Limited, though they are not headquarted downtown, the thousands of creative and unique jobs that have been created by those companies has made a MAJOR impact on central city Columbus; i.e. nightlife, dinning, fashion shows, etc. etc.

Well, it's now 2011, so let's see if the top three items from the yuppie wish list in that study (see page 15) have been delivered by the city. They did pay the woman $85,000 to tell them what to do, after all.

 

#1 out of 31% surveyed is more job opportunities/career growth/entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship is definitely lacking in the inner city with plenty of abandoned storefronts to bear that out. It probably doesn't help that the city's respective department that deals with permits for opening a small business will find any reason to throw as many obstacle in one's path as a way of saying thank you for trying revitalize our under-served inner city.

 

#2 is downtown development at 14% and is actually the one item that was delivered with large-scale residential developments, namely the Annex and Neighborhood Launch which are miniature residential neighborhoods located next to urban commercial blocks, but due to the lack of delivering on their #1 wish is that the Annex borders a half-empty strip with dumpy storefronts containing liquor and wig stores: just the kinds of places yuppies love to frequent.

 

#3 at 12% was transportation and on this front the city has only made improvements by and large in parts of Columbus near the outerbelt, ie sprawl, in the form of adding more and more lanes, with six-lane Polaris Parkway (not counting the numerous turn lanes) as a shining example of where Columbus' priorities have been for the past handful of years. Meanwhile I'm freezing my ass off for a late COTA bus Downtown that is clear on the other side of the city an might as well wait for the next bus: that is due to arrive in an hour, if it's on time that is, and when there's a delay with one bus you can bet it'll apply to the next one. If you want to be car free it can work out for most of the year if you bike and/or bus, but when you need the bus you can't depend on COTA and on top of that they'll also have the police escort you off the bus if you forget one day to bring exact change for the $1.75 fare. In other words, the city has done done absolutely nothing to improve transportation options in this city.

 

So to summarize, the city of Columbus only followed through on one of the top three things that YPs want to see in this city, despite paying $85,000 for a consultant to tell them to do just that if they want to retain those YPs. I'm smart, not getting any younger, and will be joining those leaving Columbus.

You can find so many similar articles in a lot of cities, but it would be nice if the newspapers were writing more informed and intelligent articles.

 

Young people come and go. If Columbus (which overall does decent) wants to increase that number, it has a few significant options, the first being create more jobs, period. Not "creative class" jobs. Not tech jobs. Simply more of a variety of jobs of which creative, and tech and so many other jobs fall into.

 

If that can happen, and it's tough because it mostly happens organically, then it feeds off of itself.  A significant, but distant second, would be to truly mold the city into an even more urban destination that is attractive to many people - in others do the leg work that makes the city a brand for urban living (like Portland, which struggles because young people move there and right now it doesn't have the jobs, but decades of smart policy biult a brand and a real product worth wanting). I am not suggesting merely copying another city, but building and enhancing Columbus, which does suffer from a lack of identity outside of the Great Lakes area.

I see all this argument about Columbus and how its not urban enough and that's why its going to continue to loose young professionals. Well, Columbus has one area that is tremendously urban - anywhere near High Street.  Every time I go down to High Street I notice more and more stuff, more new buildings (of a quality one would find in Chicago even - buildings that are more substantially urban than what was there in the first place :P), more new restaurants, places that are very hip.  I see way more bicyclists on high street in the spring than I do anywhere else in Ohio and there are cool diverse ethnic dining options, everything from a Somali run Hookah bar to Indian, Chinese and Japanese food.  In Ohio Columbus probably has the best chances of retaining young professionals, its a shame that the rest of the city is strip malls, because high street IMO is almost as cool as a major street in Chicago, just with crappier architecture.  As the area continues to develop, even the architecture and built environment IMO will get more urban.

 

When I lived in Cincy, Columbus made me jealous, I wish Cincy was getting all this stuff and had the kind of social scene Columbus has.  Seriously if the two were merged (the high-culture, history and architecture of Cincy with the youthful energy and vibrancy of the area around high street in Cbus) it would be one of the best cities in the country.

With all due respect Kieth, I think yuppies do frequent liquor stores.

I see all this argument about Columbus and how its not urban enough and that's why its going to continue to loose young professionals. Well, Columbus has one area that is tremendously urban - anywhere near High Street.  Every time I go down to High Street I notice more and more stuff, more new buildings (of a quality one would find in Chicago even - buildings that are more substantially urban than what was there in the first place :P), more new restaurants, places that are very hip.  I see way more bicyclists on high street in the spring than I do anywhere else in Ohio and there are cool diverse ethnic dining options, everything from a Somali run Hookah bar to Indian, Chinese and Japanese food.  In Ohio Columbus probably has the best chances of retaining young professionals, its a shame that the rest of the city is strip malls, because high street IMO is almost as cool as a major street in Chicago, just with crappier architecture.  As the area continues to develop, even the architecture and built environment IMO will get more urban.

 

When I lived in Cincy, Columbus made me jealous, I wish Cincy was getting all this stuff and had the kind of social scene Columbus has.  Seriously if the two were merged (the high-culture, history and architecture of Cincy with the youthful energy and vibrancy of the area around high street in Cbus) it would be one of the best cities in the country.

 

I agree with everything said in this post. I've often said if I could combine the overall vibe and social aspects of Columbus with the history and architecture of Cincinnati, Cinci would truly be a remarkable city IMO. I always hate admitting it, but everytime I go to Columbus, I always find it to be a very enjoyable and energetic city. Whenever I go up there, I usually always take my bike and I'm always amazed by the amount of people out on bicycles.

 

Columbus is eons ahead of Cincinnati in being cycling friendly; an aspect that I find truly disappointing here. There aren't even any cycling lanes in DT Cinci and hardly any anywhere else throughout the city.

 

I agree that if any city in Ohio has a chance in retaining it's young professionals, it's certainly Columbus.

Why would you hate to admit it?  Columbus and Cincinnati are both great cities.