http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060816/NEWS16/608160402/-1/NEWS

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Article published August 16, 2006

 

Population of Toledo dips below 300,000

Nearby counties experience growth

 

By KARAMAGI RUJUMBA

BLADE STAFF WRITER

 

 

A gallon of milk cost 34 cents, gasoline cost 18 cents a gallon, and the average annual household income was $1,900 in 1940 - the last time Toledo's population was under 300,000 people.

 

For the first time in more than 60 years, Toledo's population has dipped to 285,937, according to an estimate in the 2005 American Community Survey announced yesterday by the U.S. Census Bureau. Even allowing for the survey's stated margin of error, the city's population would still not exceed 292,000.

 

More at link above:

What are we doing wrong???  I mean, Ohio is not THAT bad a place to live.  I think we need a change in leadership...

I think sooner before later, Toledo will be included with Detroit in the Census studies for market size. 

^ #1 is most interesting, i am very surprised monroe is not counted with toledo already.

 

otoh, your #3 is quite a stretch, i would not expect that to happen anytime soon. i think the commuter patterns are still pretty independent for one thing. but who knows what they will do? stranger things than that happen with the census -- at least those tol/cinci moves would make some sense.

 

So now Columbus is dropping in population? One day it is growing and the next it is dropping.

 

I know cities in Ohio are dropping in population, but the last Census estimates indicate Columbus is growing and now it is dropping. How accurate is most of this data?

 

Despite what is said, I expect Columbus to reach 800,000 before too much longer.

I can tell you this. I've seen a ton of for sale signs and for rent signs. Since i'm in the pest control industry I see people in all walks of life and what i have found more people are living with others. People want to save money and that's one way to do it, is to live with a buddy. That's one thing that going on in the city.

 

I have never ever seen so many Africans living in Cincinnati. It seems every apartment i goto. They are immigrants(legally) from africa. Once the 2010 Census comes out in 2011 you will see Cincinnati has gained instead of lost residents.

 

So this study is flawed in so so many way.

From the 8/17/06 Toledo Blade:

 

 

Mayor doubts Census drop; Szollosi blames tax burden

By TOM TROY

BLADE STAFF WRITER

 

Mayor Carty Finkbeiner alternated between casting doubt on the accuracy of a new U.S. Census estimate that lowers Toledo's population and shrugging it off as unimportant.

 

The mayor ticked off the list of Toledo advantages - such as abundant water and the Toledo Museum of Art - and said that quality of life, not population, is what makes a city great.

 

"If that were the case, Detroit would be a better city to live in than Toledo," Mr. Finkbeiner said yesterday. "Toledo is a city with an excellent quality of life."

 

Full story at:

 

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060817/NEWS16/608170376/-1/NEWS

 

Today local news agencies corrected yesterdays stories claiming Toledo sank under 300k. All Ohio cities are smaller than what the real 2010 census will show. I suspect Columbus will grow substantually when thier student population is included.

 

[move]Toledo's population grows if you count students, prisoners[/move]

 

Don't count Toledo out of the 300,000 club just yet.

 

The city's population rises just above that magic threshold at 301,285 - if you count college students, prison inmates, and patients who reside in long-term care facilities within the city.

 

More at:

 

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060818/NEWS16/608180361/-1/FRONTPAGE

dont worry, columbus will soon annex toledo and then they will not have to worry about population loss.

Ohio's not that bad but many cities in the state don't have the energy to be great.  Wouldn't surprise me to see Ohio's 2015 population hovering around 11.1 MM.

Cdawg

 

The thing is, 2010 is too far away to make blanket predictions on any population movements. Ive seen predictions showing Toledo both shrinking and growing just this year. Its clear no one really knows what will happen. Im not going to be so gloom and doom, I wouldnt be surprised to see population growth above the 301k figure by 2010. From what I see everyday the hispanic population is waaaaaaay undercounted.

 

 

Ohio's not that bad but many cities in the state don't have the energy to be great.  Wouldn't surprise me to see Ohio's 2015 population hovering around 11.1 MM.

I think Ohio will still have more than 11.7 million by 2025, in accordance with the Census, but after then is anyones guess.

I don't think anyone in Ohio can say:

 

Toledo is the Mexican mecca of Ohio and the population is exploding right now.

 

As Columbus has a very increasing Mexican community as well.

^indeed it does, second to only Toledo in Ohio.

 

Do you have a link for that?  I thought Lorain was the biggest Hispanic population by percent (21%), so I'd be interested in actual figures for population change, but don't see anything handy for 1990 or 2005 data.

^actually it's kind of already like that. Toledo and Detroit share Radio/TV stations (broadcast strength is aided by Lake Erie), though Toledo officially gets 100,000 people in Lenawee County, MI and Detroit gets 150,000 people in Monroe County, MI. :|

 

In reality, Monroe is just as much Toledo as Detroit, if not moreso, and I bet by the next census, Monroe County, Michigan will be added to Toledo's MSA. All the growth up there is people leaving Ohio. Detroit's southern growth is pretty much over.

 

Here's actually what I expect to happen in 2010:

 

1. Monroe County becomes part of Toledo's MSA and media market.

2. Lenawee County becomes part of Toledo's MSA, bringing Toledo's metro to almost a million people.

3. Detroit/Toledo/Ann Arbor/Flint become a new CMSA of about 6.5 million people.

 

On another note, I expect a similar thing to happen with a Cincinnati/Dayton/Hamilton/Springfield CMSA of over 3 million people.

 

Detroit and Toledo do not share TV stations.  Detroit has its own affilaites, Toledo has its own.  Detroiters do not watch Toledo TV and Toledoans may or may not desperatly seek out Detroit TV stations.  They really do not share eadio stations either, Toledoans can pick up a couple of stations, but not a lot.

 

Also, by definition of MSA, it is highly unlilely Monroe, MI will ever fit into Detroit or Toledo's market unless Detroit and Toledo are melded together, and that is not likely to ever happen.  Washington DC and Baltimore are not even one MSA, why would Detroit and Toledo ever be one MSA?

c-dawg what exactly are you talking about here? fremont? i've spent plenty of time in fremont. defiance? ditto. thats nice a few mexicans have moved in off the farms or whatev and its all good but dont equate that with real rainbow coalition diversity. so lets dont get so carried away with sweeping statements.

 

even your toledo is ohio's mexican mecca is silly. columbus is or will be it soon enough, as it already is for almost all immigration. toledo is not even close to being as rep'd for mexicans as lorain, at least per capita. i'd bet not even for arabic either. bottom line reality is that lorain is not in the same orbit of diversity as any other city in the state and few in the nation. thats like comparing ohio's jupiter of diversity with the new plutons.

Wrong- the news channels share their helicopters for God's sake!

 

No, Toledo borrows Detroit's chopper because it doesn't have one.

oh come on c-dawg i never said toledo is "not" known for arabic or hispanic. first of all, lets get this one off the table, fremont? i think it's you who has not been to fremont in awhile or maybe ever as little lorain's 2000 census 14,438 hispanic pop was pretty close fremont's entire 17k total population. so fremont is to lorain as lorain is to columbus, that is it's a nice small farm town.

 

but let's focus, fine you can take smaller cities off the table if you like, but as for toledo being a hispanic mecca you still are not very convincing. columbus has more hispanics right now by a nose (17,471) than toledo does (17,141) based on the 2000 census. so that would make columbus the hispanic mecca de facto (actually cleveland is at 34,728 but for sake of arguement lets leave them off the table  :wink:). 

 

ok, if not yet percentage-wise what you are totally forgetting is that columbus has a track record as being a proven immigration magnet for all stripes & the columbus hispanic pop grew up quickly from nada only a few years back. otoh, you are merely speculating about toledo, but that assertion is not born out in any facts you have shown or i could find, just your rhetoric. look ahead, we all know toledo's economy is in the doldrums while columbus's economy is always stable at the very worst. people move for jobs, so that's a big one against toledo being any kind of mecca for anything at all immigration-wise or other-wise right there. am i wrong?

 

finally, let's not forget to put this discussion in perspective. the 2005 census community survey says 14.5% is the overall usa hispanic norm so i reallllly don't see any big deal here, if anything ohio stats are showing a galactic-sized lag on that front (ohio as a whole comes in at a woeful 2.3% for hispanic). so nothing to go on about here except to say that that neither toledo nor ohio as a whole is any kind of hispanic mecca, sadly it has historically been more like a hispanic repellent. looking at the numbers if anything at best ohio is only very slowly turning a corner with more permanent hispanic immigrant population. growth appears broadly spread around the state -- i see no one place truly leading a charge and that is probably for the best anyway in the long run.

 

 

 

C-dawg, unless the info I got from the US Census bureau is off, Monroe is its own MSA and not a part of Detroit or Toledo.

 

The situation you described hardly indicates that they "share" radio stations, You just happen to pick up a couple of them in T-town.  I stand pat on my point. Monroe can not go either way, because of its location, unless Toledo and Detroit become one MSA, and that will never happen.

 

 

http://www.census.gov/population/estimates/metro_general/List4.txt

 

hispanic mecca you still are not very convincing. columbus has more hispanics right now by a nose (17,471) than toledo does (17,141)

 

Where did I say Hispanic mecca? I said Mexican mecca, in which Toledo does lead the state. Around 3/4 of Toledo's Hispanic population is Mexican. Cleveland is Puerto Rican (COMPLETELY different) and Columbus is a mix of everything.

 

this is rhetoric not facts. uncle sam and the us census said "hispanic or latino" not me. i gave you those numbers, but if you have a specific country's immigrant stats i am all ears. they may exist for 2000, but i know they did not before that. good luck.

 

ok, if not yet percentage-wise what you are totally forgetting is that columbus has a track record as being a proven immigration magnet for all stripes & the columbus hispanic pop grew up quickly from nada only a few years back. otoh, you are merely speculating about toledo, but that assertion is not born out in any facts you have shown or i could find, just your rhetoric.

 

It's your rhetoric too stating Columbus is a booming Hispanic city. Stats from you? Columbus's foreign-born percentage is higher than the rest of Ohio, but its LATIN AMERICAN born percentage is pretty much the same. You're right, Columbus is an immigrant-magnet by Ohio standards, but not particularly for Hispanic immigrants. The majority of Bustown's immigrants are from East Asia, which is awesome for a city in Ohio. Columbus blows everyone else clear out of the water in that demographic.

 

i never said it was a booming latino city, i said it was booming immigrant city, which includes hispanics. my real point is columbus is ohio's big immigrant magnet period. no place else is getting much of anything in the way of immigration relatively. columbus came out of nowhere and leads toledo in hispanic numbers in the last census. play that out to the next census as columbus leads for all new immigration period and we know that trend will not change re toledo vs columbus. pick any demo you'd like.

 

finally, let's not forget to put this discussion in perspective. the 2005 census community survey says 14.5% is the overall usa hispanic norm so i reallllly don't see any big deal here, if anything ohio stats are showing a galactic-sized lag on that front (ohio as a whole comes in at a woeful 2.3% for hispanic).

 

True. What's really shocking is if you look at how low the Hispanic percentage is in Cincinnati and Dayton (or anything else in southern Ohio). The northern part of the state is far more Hispanic than the southern part.

 

well no and who knows. first of all toledo's 5.5% is really shockingly low too. second, it's not known north vs south based on what we have on the table so far. ne ohio aside, i already showed you from the census columbus has more hispanics than toledo. i read here about hamilton getting hispanic growth. so how's about some numbers that take those remarks out of the world of opinion and into stats?

 

first of all, lets get this one off the table, fremont? i think it's you who has not been to fremont in awhile or maybe ever as little lorain's 2000 census 14,438 hispanic pop was pretty close fremont's entire 17k total population. so fremont is to lorain as lorain is to columbus, that is it's a nice small farm town.

 

No, it's not just the city of Fremont, but the whole AREA. Northwest Ohio leads the state when it comes to Hispanic (mainly Mexican) percentage, plain and simple. It's not just how "healthy" the economy is, but what the economy deals with- agriculture and food manufacturing. Northwest Ohio relies heavily on migrant workers to do the labor in these industries. Many do stay afterwards, and some move to Toledo and Detroit.

 

no? well fine c-dawg except that you are moving the goalposts here. you never mentioned "the area," you directly said it was the 'city' of fremont. you said: "In terms of "biggest percentage jump" since 2000, I'd have my money on Fremont if anything. That city is undergoing an incredible racial/ethnic transformation right now....it's Mexican community is quite large (especially during the growing season when it seems like half the city is Hispanic, mostly of Mexican descent)." well that assertion was easily disproven, but now what to say? if anything a one-two percent change in columbus hispanic population in the next census means far more people than any fremont change. if you have these new 'regional fremont' or 'nw ohio area' demographic numbers that "lead ohio plain and simple" that you want to put out there again i am all ears, what are they?

 

 

 

Monroe currently is independent, but it used to be part of Detroit MSA (it was like that in 1990 for example) and judging by recent growth trends (have you seen the sprawled-out disaster that is Bedford, Michigan?), there's a damn good chance it will become Toledo MSA.

 

Metro Detroit's growth is almost entirely north of the city right now. The southern suburbs (which are almost all in Wayne County anyway) are not exactly "booming." Besides that, the only true "urban" area in the county, the city of Monroe, is much closer to Toledo than Detroit. The city of Monroe is 20 miles from downtown Toledo and almost 40 miles from downtown Detroit.

 

Greater Toledo's largest growth area is Monroe County, and with the Detroit commuters dying off, there's a damn good chance the county will go to Toledo MSA by 2010. The article posted above shows the county booming right now, and by traveling around the county, you can be damn sure it's ex-Ohioans fueling this sprawl nightmare. Most are moving right into the Bedford, Lambertville, and Temperence triad of suburban hell. The Luna Pier area seems to be gaining Toledoans too, just on a lesser scale.

 

Unless Bedford balloons to be a much larger community, Monroe County will not become a part of Toledo's MSA. Temperance? Are you kidding me? HAve you ever been to Temperance?  There is no sprawl hell in Temperance.  Temperance is a farm town with a grocery store.  Luna Pier? There may be some people moving there from Toledo, but certainly nothing that would warrant shifting Monroe into Toledo's MSA, at least not withhin the next four years. There is no possible way. In order for Monroe County to become a part of Toledo's MSA, there would have to be a degree of socio-economic integration with Toledo, and that is not happening county wide. Maybe that area south of Sterns Road or along Lewis Avenue, but come on!  Monroe, is growing, no doubt about it, but to say Monroe County should be in Toledo's MSA is absurd.  There is not enough of an integration county wide with a neighboring city to warrant Monroe swaying one way or the other.  People in Northern Monroe County (and Monroe City) go to places such as Woodhaven and Taylor in Wayne County, not Toledo.

Wrong- the news channels share their helicopters for God's sake!

 

No, Toledo borrows Detroit's chopper because it doesn't have one.

 

lol!

I'm leaning C-Dawg's way overall here (though comparing between numbers presented as "1%" is like fingernails on a chalkboard to anyone who's spent any time with statistics...one significant digit is utterly beyond insufficient when that one digit is 1...the two values could differ nearly by a factor of 3 (0.5 --> 1.49), and still appear equivalent), but I did just want to point out a little rhetorical knot you've woven for yourself:

 

Wrong- the news channels share their helicopters for God's sake!

 

 

Channel 11 Toledo has a news chopper:

http://www.kcbd.com/Global/story.asp?S=1117050&nav=DqSp

 

So, which is it?  They share a news chopper, or they don't share a news chopper?

 

(Sorry...most irrelevant thing I've posted in ages!)

 

C-Dawg, do you just find the most obsolete, illegitimate "resources" you can find and post them on here claiming them to be fact? WTOL has been without a news helicopter for several years now, that fact can plainly be seen on WTOL's own website. The site claiming otherwise is severely out-of-date. WXYZ in Detroit will send their helicopter to Toledo to provide coverage to the local stations for news stories of such magnitude that they would require aerial footage. For example, when one of Grand Aire's Falcon 20's crashed short of Toledo Express Airport in 2003, video from above the ground was provided courtesy of WXYZ's helicopter.

So my joke was right.  Gotcha.

I do not have any stats to back up my points. I am from Monroe, and travel there often to visit my family and friends who live in Monroe when my school schedule allows.  All I can really tell you is that most of my family and friends in Monroe primarily travel to Wayne County.  Some of my Aunts and Uncles that live in Erie and Las Salle travel to Toledo, one even has a job in T-town. Primarily, however, from my experience as someone who has lived in Monroe most of my life is that Monroe residents travel to Wayne County far more than Toledo, and really could care less what is happening in Bedford.  Sure, the south part of Monroe County is growing, but that does not justify putting it into Toledo's MSA.  That just means the south end of Monroe County can have towns like the north end of Toledo allready has. There is not as much integration with Toledo as you seem to think, and that would prevent it from being placed in the MSA.

 

 

^I spend a lot of time in Monroe myself (moreso than Toledo now). Do you live in the city of Monroe, or another town in the county? Just curious- It's good to have some more Michiganian representation on here. :-D

 

And also, what's your favorite beach? I generally like Luna Pier more than Sterling State Park (Sterling can get REALLY littered- I've stepped on broken glass there). I'm not sure if there are any other public beaches besides Luna Pier and Sterling, but I'd imagine some nicer beaches exist in the northern part of the county.

 

My primary residence is in Frenchtown Township (I do attend college in Evansville, IN), in a subdivision called Detroit Beach, just up the road from Sterling State Park off Dixie Hwy. Our beaches are super clean, if you swim in May after they are cleaned and before anyone uses them.  They get worse than Sterling, a place I tend to avoid.  We also have a dairy mart, so we are the greatest of the beaches along Dixie Hwy!

 

I like Luna Pier, it is probably my second favorite beach in Monroe County behind Stoney Point.  That is my favorite, because it is usually the cleanest.  I also like Maple Beach, which is in Rockwood by the Lake Erie Metropark. That may actually be in Wayne County, Rockwood does straddle the line somewhat. I am not exactly sure if that is still in Monroe County or not.  Stoney Point is much like Detroit Beach, in that it is supposed to be private, but, if you do not cause a stir, you can use it with no problems. They do not exactly check you at the gate to ensure you are a resident.