Yeah the fumes made me woozy when I dumped them down the utility sink.

For downtown Kroger store, here's what UC architecture students are working on

Steve Watkins - Staff Reporter - Cincinnati Business Courier

 

Dozens of University of Cincinnati architecture students have been working to help Kroger Co. come up with a plan to open a long-awaited downtown grocery store.

 

Michael Zaretsky, an associate at the School of Architecture and Interior Design who is working with Kroger and UC students on the project, said UC has had about 10 students in each of four one-semester “studios” work on a different issue over the past two years. Those have included parking and fitting a store into an urban space.

 

“We’re trying to come up with ideas that are a starting point for Kroger to put a store downtown,” Zaretsky said.

 

Cont

Whatever they design, just hurry up!

Here's how you know they aren't serious about the downtown store.  Sorry to any DAAP grads, but if Kroger builds a store they AREN'T going to go to students to design it.  They are a billion dollar company. They will hire a firm to tell them what works best.  This makes it look like a gimmick, but people love it cuz "oh look they are letting the kids get involved!"

 

Also, we have an urban grocery store.  If everyone on this chain shopped there weekly that store would improve so much.  But most people here drive to Newport or somewhere else so they only make small improvements.

 

Who on here lives in the urban core and hasn't shopped there at least once a month the entire time they lived here?  I was there yesterday.  between that and Findlay Market I get virtually everything I really need.

I would guess I go there 3-4x per month. 

 

Honestly, it's Findlay Market I don't get to nearly enough.  :(

^ I go to Gibbs in the market as my deli since OTR Kroger doesn't really do deli well.  I do the market for spices, some unique veggies that OTR Kroger doesn't carry as much of/well, things like pine nuts or roasted red peppers, sun dried tomatoes, etc are from the market. But bread, milk, juice, basic supplies, frozen pizzas, snacks, everything else is at OTR Kroger.  They even carry organic cereals now, etc.  The Parking lot is a mess sometimes but the store is very clean.

I don't suppose its dawned on people that if Kroger puts a new store downtown they wont keep the one open in OTR? The numbers just are not there to support two stores. I would imagine they will put it where they think the most monied people, will use it  (banks perhaps) to appease GE.

 

Indianapolis just got a second Marsh store downtown but then Indy has 25-30K downtown and an average household income in the downtown of over 70K, a second store made sense there plus its near the IUPUI campus which has a huge commuter population, and Indy convention center is almost always booked which means an extra 20-30K down town.

 

I have a feeling there is going to be some very disappointed people in OTR if they close that store.

^I don't think it very likely at all that there will be a Kroger store at the Banks. 

 

If they do a new store somewhere toward the north end of the CBD, then yes, I think you will see the OTR Kroger close.  I don't know that you will see a lot of disappointed people, though.  That store is improving, but if I can get an even better one that's a little longer walk, I will be all for it. 

I think part of the problem with the OTR Kroger is that there really isn't a good way to ever expand without first tearing down the existing structure which would leave the neighborhood without a grocery store for a long time which isn't a good thing at all.

 

A store integrated into the base of one of the larger, Mercer Commons sized projects would be really nice. No front parking lot, no single-use, large, one story building, etc. Or into the base of a new tower next to Kroger's HQ, but that's probably a little too much of a fantasy at this point.

I recently visited the new marsh store in downtown Indy, its 43000 sq foot and acts as the anchor tenant in an 85 million dollar apartment building. They have parking but they also have bike share out front. This was smart marketing on their part because they get a lot of commuting office workers who stop in on their way home, park and buy groceries, but the bike share makes it convenient for those living downtown too. The other downtown grocery owned by them is in an old repurposed art deco Sears building.

 

I would hope that Kroger does something similar because you need something accessible to downtown workers who would stop by before they head home to do some quick shopping.  I think the thing Indy realized (and they have ,30,000 people living downtown) is that you need to be accessible enough to get that downtown office worker trade. I know when I lived in Indy I'd walk from my office which was two blocks away over to the grocery to grab a salad from the salad bar or a sandwich from the full service deli.

 

Kroger is going to need to be dependent on commute downtown workers until the downtown and OTR gets repopulated if its going to be self sustaining.

^ Downtown Indy seems kind of small compared to DT Cincy ... What are they using to calculate their boundaries? In other words, what area are they using to come up with 30k people?

^ Downtown Indy seems kind of small compared to DT Cincy ... What are they using to calculate their boundaries? In other words, what area are they using to come up with 30k people?

 

Well I used the more conservative number. If you use the standard 1 mile from center of downtown number (walking distance ) that urban planner use like to use, Indy downtown is at 45,179. Of course Indy is very walkable compared to Cincinnati because there are no hills. the biggest problem is calculating population because it is changing daily as more multi story condo complexes and apartment come on line. The more telling is the average household income downtown  is over 70K.  Most of the old storefront buildings in downtown are luxury condos but they are much larger units. Then you have the Conrad hotel with its 2-5 million dollar condos on the upper floors.

 

My own experience with Indy is that it has long ago lost its downtown grittiness and has been taken over by wealthy suburbanites. Probably the same thing that will happen to Cincinnati downtown in 10 years or so. One of the reasons I decided on Cincinnati was it was not there yet.

These purported Indianapolis numbers are completely false. 

 

Indianapolis's own major downtown website cites population as "now over 20,000".  Using the New York Times 2010 Census map I was able to get to a 12724 (downtown being everything within the highway loop and the river). In fact, using the NYT census map and your 1 mile radius from the center of downtown (adds a little more population to the east the number is no more than 15,000.  That number may be 4 years old, so maybe today it's 22,000, but it's no where near 45,000.

^ Downtown Indy seems kind of small compared to DT Cincy ... What are they using to calculate their boundaries? In other words, what area are they using to come up with 30k people?

 

Downtown indy is/was much different than Downtown Cincy. Prior to the Indy store opening up the next closest Marsh's are 6 plus miles away.

We have the Marketplace Kroger just across the river, a big Party Source, Save alot in Bellvue, another Kroger in Bellvue/Newport, really close to

Downtown. I go equally to the Marketplace Kroger and the Covington Kroger (probably a little bigger than OTR).

Looking at maps. If you take downtown Indy, I65 to the North, White River to the West, I 70 to the East and South, that is a comparable

land mass from from OTR to NKY, 75 to the west and 71 to the East. Indy has 1 grocery store in that footprint, Cincinnati has 4/5 in our footprint.

Yeah, I was going to say ... I mean, I was just in the CBD of Indy - maybe 2 weeks ago and you get the feeling that you're more in DT Dayton than Cincy (away from S&S Monument Circle of course) ... Or maybe Columbus.

Yeah, I was going to say ... I mean, I was just in the CBD of Indy - maybe 2 weeks ago and you get the feeling that you're more in DT Dayton than Cincy (away from S&S Monument Circle of course) ... Or maybe Columbus.

 

And once you get outside of the map benchmarks I mentioned for Indy it is a ring of 3 miles of poor and low income dweller, unlike Cincy which

has a mix of low up to high income in Newport, Covington, Mt. Adams, E. Walnut, to draw from. My guess is that Indy has more professionals

living in and around downtown than 10 years ago of course , but my guess is more and more of the IUPUI students are not commuters anymore. There is a waiting list for campus housing and I am sure those students are populating the complexes to the east of Campus.

That 47,000 number seemed high to me also.

I don't suppose its dawned on people that if Kroger puts a new store downtown they wont keep the one open in OTR? The numbers just are not there to support two stores. I would imagine they will put it where they think the most monied people, will use it  (banks perhaps) to appease GE.

 

Indianapolis just got a second Marsh store downtown but then Indy has 25-30K downtown and an average household income in the downtown of over 70K, a second store made sense there plus its near the IUPUI campus which has a huge commuter population, and Indy convention center is almost always booked which means an extra 20-30K down town.

 

I have a feeling there is going to be some very disappointed people in OTR if they close that store.

 

why would anyone in OTR be unhappy if kroger built at the banks, when they could just use the street car to get grocerys?

There's absolutely no way that DT Indy has 45k, 30k, or probably even 20k residents in it. As of 2010, the population was 12,725 - which includes several thousand incarcerated prisoners and two or three homeless shelters. Also, bucking the general trend nationally, downtown Indy actually lost population in 2 of its 3 census tracts from 2000 to 2010, with much of the gain in the remaining one coming from an expanded Marion County Jail.

I don't suppose its dawned on people that if Kroger puts a new store downtown they wont keep the one open in OTR? The numbers just are not there to support two stores. I would imagine they will put it where they think the most monied people, will use it  (banks perhaps) to appease GE.

 

Indianapolis just got a second Marsh store downtown but then Indy has 25-30K downtown and an average household income in the downtown of over 70K, a second store made sense there plus its near the IUPUI campus which has a huge commuter population, and Indy convention center is almost always booked which means an extra 20-30K down town.

 

I have a feeling there is going to be some very disappointed people in OTR if they close that store.

 

why would anyone in OTR be unhappy if kroger built at the banks, when they could just use the street car to get grocerys?

 

Some of those GE people will probably living in OTR, lol. IMHO Kroger stays put in OTR, renovates, or opens a new store there.

As far as indy goes here is  list of projects

http://www.indydt.com/projects.cfm

 

51 projects 2.6 Billion dollars of those are 21  are residential projects 518 million dollars through 2017

 

I wouldn't call the areas around the downtown 'poor' The Old Northside and Herron Morton have million dollar houses , ad Fall creek place has starter homes in the 250K range.  North of the freeway . To the east is Holy Cross where a starter home is 200K and they are building a whole development called Highland place of 500K+ homes, Most restored homes are going between 250-500K. To the South you have Fountain square which has several new luxury low rise condos along Virginia and Fletcher place has homes ranging from 200-600K, The only area slow to turn around would be west but most of the land is zoo and industrial. The "apartments" east of the campus are luxury apartments ranging from 1200-2500 and the condos start at 400K and go up to 600K., Students still commute in to IUPUI because they cant afford to live anywhere near downtown.

 

Indys downtown is heavily new urbanist looking and  the density is getting too high to suit me, which is why I left , plus there was nothing affordable left to restore.

 

 

Some of those GE people will probably living in OTR, lol. IMHO Kroger stays put in OTR, renovates, or opens a new store there.

 

I don't know, The GE jobs pay an average of 70K . 3CDC is building at 300 a sq foot. If you are still paying student loans it would be hard to afford a one bedroom 300K condo. I bet 80 percent of their workforce commutes in. In fact it would be a fascinating urban planning study to follow their workforce to see how far the average GE employee commutes. Plus if its a  2 income family and they have kids, I don't see OTR as an option, the housing variety isn't there. 70K a year wont get you in Mt Adams. I bet it helps Covington and Newport which has more affordable options and it may even help Incline district on the Ohio side, but I don't think its will 'help' OTR. OTR needs more apartments

Yeah, I was going to say ... I mean, I was just in the CBD of Indy - maybe 2 weeks ago and you get the feeling that you're more in DT Dayton than Cincy (away from S&S Monument Circle of course) ... Or maybe Columbus.

 

Ironically, Dayton, Cincinnati, and Indianapolis all have the exact same square mileage for their CBD's (0.8 square miles; strictly CBD's...not talking OTR/Oregon District/White River-Mass Ave-St. Joe's).  Columbus CBD alone is Cincinnati + Indianapolis or Cincinnati + Dayton or Dayton + Indianapolis (whatever combo you want).

 

But anyway, back on topic of grocery stores...I do agree that if Cincinnati did build a Kroger on Central Parkway the OTR one would close...but wouldn't that be a good thing?  Almost connecting both the CBD and OTR as one general continuous neighborhood?  Plus, with that streetcar stop on Central Parkway, I think it's a wonderful location.

As far as indy goes here is  list of projects

http://www.indydt.com/projects.cfm

 

51 projects 2.6 Billion dollars of those are 21  are residential projects 518 million dollars through 2017

 

I wouldn't call the areas around the downtown 'poor' The Old Northside and Herron Morton have million dollar houses , ad Fall creek place has starter homes in the 250K range.  North of the freeway . To the east is Holy Cross where a starter home is 200K and they are building a whole development called Highland place of 500K+ homes, Most restored homes are going between 250-500K. To the South you have Fountain square which has several new luxury low rise condos along Virginia and Fletcher place has homes ranging from 200-600K, The only area slow to turn around would be west but most of the land is zoo and industrial. The "apartments" east of the campus are luxury apartments ranging from 1200-2500 and the condos start at 400K and go up to 600K., Students still commute in to IUPUI because they cant afford to live anywhere near downtown.

 

Indys downtown is heavily new urbanist looking and  the density is getting too high to suit me, which is why I left , plus there was nothing affordable left to restore.

 

IUPUI has,

 

    General Housing Information

    Ball Residence Hall

    University Tower

    Townhomes

    Riverwalk Apartments

    Supplemental Housing at Park Place

 

Is Stadium Lofts and Stadium Flats geared for students with rents in the $600-$1,200 range?

Have you ever wanted to live near downtown without the high costs of rent? How about living in a baseball stadium?

 

Now residents have a chance to do both, thanks to the new Stadium Lofts apartments located on West 16th Street, not far from the campuses of IUPUI and Wishard Hospital.

http://www.indianapolisrecorder.com/news/article_9cb06078-81f1-11e2-b89f-001a4bcf887a.html

 

There are still large cheap residential areas near Downtown. You can pick up a house for next to nothing and restore it. New construction, yeah

that is going to be more expensive usually.

OTR Kroger has a great opportunity to expand back to Walnut Street.  They could easily build out the back half, move current good to that section while tearing down the current store and building out to Vine.  It's really not the logistical nightmare many people think it is.  There's one abandoned building on Walnut in the way that I'd hate to lose though.

 

Still, I think a Kroger on Central Parkway right next to the headquarters would make the most sense.  If they built there, I don't think anybody in OTR would be terribly sad if the OTR Kroger closes.  (I say that as a BIG OTR Kroger fan who lives a l=block away and shops there daily.)

under 10 percent of IUPUI 30 thousand students live in campus housing according to the university. If you have ever tried to drive anywhere near there you'd know that parking is a zoo.

 

Stadium apartments are mostly occupied by people working at lower paying jobs at the hospital down the street. They are exposed ductwork concrete floor apartments and there is nothing around them in terms of entertainment. I don't know of may college student living there but ether may be one or two. I've actually seen them, not particularly exciting.

OTR Kroger has a great opportunity to expand back to Walnut Street.  They could easily build out the back half, move current good to that section while tearing down the current store and building out to Vine.  It's really not the logistical nightmare many people think it is.  There's one abandoned building on Walnut in the way that I'd hate to lose though.

 

Still, I think a Kroger on Central Parkway right next to the headquarters would make the most sense.  If they built there, I don't think anybody in OTR would be terribly sad if the OTR Kroger closes.  (I say that as a BIG OTR Kroger fan who lives a l=block away and shops there daily.)

 

Finally, someone who shares my dream of a Central Parkway Kroger!

 

Also, I heard from reputable sources that the OTR Kroger operates at a large loss, mostly due to theft.

^Hey, I share that dream too!

I would think Kroger has to be concerned about attracting more than the CBD. Its also interesting about 'perception' of what downtown is. I think most people in Mt Adams and OTR 'think' of themselves as living downtown, just as anyone in 50K condo on Mass Ave in Indy 'thinks' they live downtown.

 

Where ever Kroger's puts a grocery store I bet vehicle count plays into the decision as they need that downtown office worker stopping on there way home. The gentrification of OTR has actually probably hurts the OTR  Krogers bottom dollar as there are fewer people on food stamps living close by and many in OTR have cars and drive to other places where they can get groceries and other shopping done.

Actually, I heard from reputable sources that the last two years have been the only two years in the past 40 that OTR Kroger hasn't operated at a loss. That's not to say it's wildly profitable, but they've been doing a lot better than in years past. I've been shopping there for 8 years and there never used to be a security guard there, they never had expensive food items, and made the majority of their revenue off 40s. Now they've got a full time security guard, an organic foods section, skim milk, Greek yogurt, craft beer, name brand sauces, etc. they've really put a lot into turning it around.

Actually, I heard from reputable sources that the last two years have been the only two years in the past 40 that OTR Kroger hasn't operated at a loss. That's not to say it's wildly profitable, but they've been doing a lot better than in years past. I've been shopping there for 8 years and there never used to be a security guard there, they never had expensive food items, and made the majority of their revenue off 40s. Now they've got a full time security guard, an organic foods section, skim milk, Greek yogurt, craft beer, name brand sauces, etc. they're teally put a lot into turning it around.

 

Also the store was renovated around 2003-2004.  I really wish I had taken a photo of what it looked like before, because it was very run-down, but the crowds hanging out on Vine St. ten years ago were incredibly hostile to anyone with a camera.  I had rocks thrown at me one time up in the 1700 or 1800 block and was threatened with a knife on two other occasions, once near Findlay Market and the other near the YMCA.  One of those times I put the camera up to my eye and when I took it away someone was holding a small knife in front of my stomach.  It made me hesitant, obviously, to block my vision with a camera from then on, which is why a lot of my photos are poorly framed. 

 

 

Actually, I heard from reputable sources that the last two years have been the only two years in the past 40 that OTR Kroger hasn't operated at a loss. That's not to say it's wildly profitable, but they've been doing a lot better than in years past. I've been shopping there for 8 years and there never used to be a security guard there, they never had expensive food items, and made the majority of their revenue off 40s. Now they've got a full time security guard, an organic foods section, skim milk, Greek yogurt, craft beer, name brand sauces, etc. they're teally put a lot into turning it around.

 

When talking to the head of Kroger real estate and Kroger's architect three years ago they said they were nearly breaking even at that point and projected to start making a profit from that point forward which would seem to go along with what you have heard.

 

I shop at the OTR Kroger probably 4 or 5 times a week depending on how much I get on each trip and have really enjoyed the experience. The people working there are friendly, there is always a security guard on duty who is friendly with the patrons and employees and the selection is quite good. There are a handful of items I wish they had but they aren't essentials so I'm not really going to complain about that.

 

My problems with the OTR Kroger are purely with its architecture and site planning. It's awful looking from the exterior and the way the parking lot works with the street and intersection sucks. If they could just reverse the site plan to have the store in front and parking in back that would be enough (an upgrade to the ugly exterior would also be welcome in my mind) to make me have basically no qualms with it. But obviously at that point building an entirely new store is the more realistic option so who knows.

The end of the big-box store era may soon be upon us.

 

That’s the message of a research note published by Goldman Sachs analysts on Tuesday cutting their investment rating on shares of Walmart. Shoppers are increasingly turning to the web or to smaller, more conveniently located stores, cutting into the market share of big-box retailers like Walmart and Target, the analysts wrote.

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/30/big-box-store-dying_n_5630572.html

Thank the lord!

 

Flaherty & Collins, 3CDC will work together on Fourth and Race apartment tower: EXCLUSIVE

Tom Demeropolis Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

What started out as an advisory role has turned into a partnership for the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. The nonprofit developer will now join Flaherty & Collins Properties in developing the stalled Fourth and Race apartment tower project.

 

Anastasia Mileham, vice president of communications for 3CDC, confirmed that its negotiating and consulting role to resolve the status of the project has evolved.

 

“We will definitely by working on the project with Flaherty & Collins,” Mileham said.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/08/15/flaherty-collins-3cdc-will-work-together-on-fourth.html

 

I'm happy to see this, but its pretty obvious this was a political move to keep the grocery from being built downtown...

 

 

I've been told that flaherty & Collins didn't want to build the grocery store, it was a requirement of Mallory/Dohoney.  It was going to add at least a million to their construction cost and the City mandated hours (7am to 10PM) would have given the operator a lot less flexibility than they would prefer. Also, it was going to be smaller than the OTR Kroger. Just want to make sure everyone understands that. OTR kroger is about 30K square feet.  This new grocery was going to be 18K square feet (but obviously targeted at a higher end clientele)  Losing that grocery, which <b>wasn't on the streetcar line anyway</b>, is fine by me.

Smaller groceries work well of stocked right and run well in fact I kind of prefer them.  Good example: http://www.wgrocer.com/home.html

 

This is one of those things Cincinnati just doesn't get

 

This is exactly what I love about the OTR Kroger.  We could definitely use a second, more high-end, grocer closer to the Square, but the OTR Kroger is a fantastic downtown grocer that we're lucky to have.

Thank the lord!

 

Flaherty & Collins, 3CDC will work together on Fourth and Race apartment tower: EXCLUSIVE

Tom Demeropolis Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

What started out as an advisory role has turned into a partnership for the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. The nonprofit developer will now join Flaherty & Collins Properties in developing the stalled Fourth and Race apartment tower project.

 

Anastasia Mileham, vice president of communications for 3CDC, confirmed that its negotiating and consulting role to resolve the status of the project has evolved.

 

“We will definitely by working on the project with Flaherty & Collins,” Mileham said.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/08/15/flaherty-collins-3cdc-will-work-together-on-fourth.html

 

I'm happy to see this, but its pretty obvious this was a political move to keep the grocery from being built downtown...

 

 

I've been told that flaherty & Collins didn't want to build the grocery store, it was a requirement of Mallory/Dohoney.  It was going to add at least a million to their construction cost and the City mandated hours (7am to 10PM) would have given the operator a lot less flexibility than they would prefer. Also, it was going to be smaller than the OTR Kroger. Just want to make sure everyone understands that. OTR kroger is about 30K square feet.  This new grocery was going to be 18K square feet (but obviously targeted at a higher end clientele)  Losing that grocery, which <b>wasn't on the streetcar line anyway</b>, is fine by me.

Smaller groceries work well of stocked right and run well in fact I kind of prefer them.  Good example: http://www.wgrocer.com/home.html

 

This is one of those things Cincinnati just doesn't get

 

This is exactly what I love about the OTR Kroger.  We could definitely use a second, more high-end, grocer closer to the Square, but the OTR Kroger is a fantastic downtown grocer that we're lucky to have.

 

I agree. 

 

The OTR Kroger is a gem most people on here seem to ignore.  If everyone in OTR shopped there, it would carry even more higher end products.  But instead, most of the residents of the last 5 years drive to Newport while complaining that they wish we had the fabled unicorn-like downtown grocery store. Shop at OTR Kroger & findlay market all the time and they will get better.

Thank the lord!

 

Flaherty & Collins, 3CDC will work together on Fourth and Race apartment tower: EXCLUSIVE

Tom Demeropolis Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

What started out as an advisory role has turned into a partnership for the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. The nonprofit developer will now join Flaherty & Collins Properties in developing the stalled Fourth and Race apartment tower project.

 

Anastasia Mileham, vice president of communications for 3CDC, confirmed that its negotiating and consulting role to resolve the status of the project has evolved.

 

“We will definitely by working on the project with Flaherty & Collins,” Mileham said.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/08/15/flaherty-collins-3cdc-will-work-together-on-fourth.html

 

I'm happy to see this, but its pretty obvious this was a political move to keep the grocery from being built downtown...

 

 

I've been told that flaherty & Collins didn't want to build the grocery store, it was a requirement of Mallory/Dohoney.  It was going to add at least a million to their construction cost and the City mandated hours (7am to 10PM) would have given the operator a lot less flexibility than they would prefer. Also, it was going to be smaller than the OTR Kroger. Just want to make sure everyone understands that. OTR kroger is about 30K square feet.  This new grocery was going to be 18K square feet (but obviously targeted at a higher end clientele)  Losing that grocery, which <b>wasn't on the streetcar line anyway</b>, is fine by me.

Smaller groceries work well of stocked right and run well in fact I kind of prefer them.  Good example: http://www.wgrocer.com/home.html

 

This is one of those things Cincinnati just doesn't get

 

This is exactly what I love about the OTR Kroger.  We could definitely use a second, more high-end, grocer closer to the Square, but the OTR Kroger is a fantastic downtown grocer that we're lucky to have.

 

I agree. 

 

The OTR Kroger is a gem most people on here seem to ignore.  If everyone in OTR shopped there, it would carry even more higher end products.  But instead, most of the residents of the last 5 years drive to Newport while complaining that they wish we had the fabled unicorn-like downtown grocery store. Shop at OTR Kroger & findlay market all the time and they will get better.

 

Cincinnati is lucky to have the OTR Kroger? Compared to who, Dayton?!

 

That store is a silly piece of crap. I'm tired of people adoring it like a pet, and chiding others who choose to go to a better store like Newport. It's not a beloved neighborhood pub, or a quirky statue. It's a f***ing grocery store. I also hear it operates at a loss, predominantly due to theft.

 

I think just the opposite of your assertion. People driving to the big store in Newport tells me they like the big store in Newport much more than shopping at the little store in OTR would tell me they want the big store in Newport. I just don't sense that the Cincinnati center city will ever have the same grocery ecosystem as Manhattan, where many smaller stores succeed. I think it needs a bigger store. This "unicorn" that you have (for some reason) now branded it. This isn't about some cultural failing that new OTR residents have. This is about Kroger not stepping up to the plate.

 

 

 

Civvik I agree with you and I'll add in.  It's also because that little abomination of a Kroger was usually surrounded by crackheads.  The perception of that intersection hasn't changed much and that Kroger isn't welcoming to people passing by.  It looks like a semi-hidden health clinic with trash in the lot.  Before the old Smitty's burned down, you'd have about 15 to 20 drug dealers chillin' on that corner across the street.  The streetcar might help lazy folk in the CBD get down there and back but a new one needs to be built.  Something that actually looks like a grocery store and not a turd.

Right on the money. I don't believe I've contributed to this thread yet, but both of you echo my thoughts. It wouldn't matter if the clientele in OTR demands a better store/selection from Kroger. Why? Because those same people have the means to drive to another, superior store and Kroger knows that. Why would they invest in a new store that serves customers they already serve elsewhere?

 

Not saying it's right or I agree with it, but I understand the business reasoning behind it.

I work at the Kroger headquarters. I seen alot of renderings of a urban Kroger store. Not saying this is for downtown or even for Cincinnati. But they are thinking urban and smaller

I work at the Kroger headquarters. I seen alot of renderings of a urban Kroger store. Not saying this is for downtown or even for Cincinnati. But they are thinking urban and smaller

 

Wal-Mart is doing the same thing ... They're realizing that these Gen X/Y/Mill's etc. want organic healthy food and our grocery stores are mirroring that of Europe's more and more ... Meaning that we don't want to stock up like Y2K's about to go down.

Cincinnati is lucky to have the OTR Kroger? Compared to who, Dayton?!

 

That store is a silly piece of crap. I'm tired of people adoring it like a pet, and chiding others who choose to go to a better store like Newport. It's not a beloved neighborhood pub, or a quirky statue. It's a f***ing grocery store. I also hear it operates at a loss, predominantly due to theft.

 

I think just the opposite of your assertion. People driving to the big store in Newport tells me they like the big store in Newport much more than shopping at the little store in OTR would tell me they want the big store in Newport. I just don't sense that the Cincinnati center city will ever have the same grocery ecosystem as Manhattan, where many smaller stores succeed. I think it needs a bigger store. This "unicorn" that you have (for some reason) now branded it. This isn't about some cultural failing that new OTR residents have. This is about Kroger not stepping up to the plate.

 

 

It doesn't have to have the same ecosystem as Manhattan, it could at the very least have the same ecosystem as Chicago, lots of big Groceries that are urban friendly along with plenty of other speciality high end corner stores to fill the gaps.

Right on the money. I don't believe I've contributed to this thread yet, but both of you echo my thoughts. It wouldn't matter if the clientele in OTR demands a better store/selection from Kroger. Why? Because those same people have the means to drive to another, superior store and Kroger knows that. Why would they invest in a new store that serves customers they already serve elsewhere?

 

Not saying it's right or I agree with it, but I understand the business reasoning behind it.

 

The ARE investing in the OTR Kroger.  I honestly believe the OTR Kroger works harder to please their customers more than any other store in the city.  I've been shopping there for 8 years and yes, it USED to be terrible.  It definitely earned its reputation.  But the past three years they've been updating their offerings constantly.  It seems like every two weeks there are new shelves, or updated registers, or new produce sections.  They've got a whole wall of health food options now.  They've chipped away at their collection of 40s and added craft beer selections.

 

I get the impression from those of you who are complaining about the store that you've never actually made it beyond the parking lot.  Yes...the parking lot is an issue.  But as you mention, fixing that issue is a big ticket upgrade.  One they can't actually invest in until the local residents start shopping there more. 

 

I haven't personally seen their books, but I have heard from a few legitimate sources that the past two years that store has actually turned a profit.  There's a chance the store will survive and potential it could expand in the future.  Companies like Kroger don't build small urban store like that anymore, so yes...WE ARE LUCKY to have that store still around after 40 years of perpetually losing business.  The only way it will expand though, is if the neighborhood gets behind and supports it.  GO IN THERE and talk to the manager.  They are working VERY hard to cater to the neighborhood.

^ ditto.

The parking lot and entrance to the store are really the only things to dislike about the OTR Kroger.  They need to figure out a way to make the parking all on the side/rear along 15th street, eliminate the parking on Vine, and expand the store out to the sidewalk. They would likely have to waste a lot of space on a vestibule in order to get the two entrances and ensure security, but it’d do wonders for the approachability of the store. The current overall site design is awful.

 

I think that store will remain the grocery for OTR, and eventually we will see what was supposed to be built in this development somewhere else downtown. It's only a matter of time before there's sufficient demand for a higher end small format urban grocery store downtown. They would do a lot of business during the lunch hours with prepared foods, a few thousand more residents to increase daily grocery customers is all it will take.

And again people are forgetting that this store was recently renovated around 2004.  That's when the current façade was added.  Previously it was a raw-looking brick like the vacant Red Cross building downtown.  The inside was "retro", with 1970s-era fluorescent light rows where half were burnt out, flickering, or at best had drifted to the pink or green ends of the spectrum.  The Camp Washington Kroger, which was of a similar vintage, was *significantly* smaller than the OTR Kroger.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The parking lot and entrance to the store are really the only things to dislike about the OTR Kroger.  They need to figure out a way to make the parking all on the side/rear along 15th street, eliminate the parking on Vine, and expand the store out to the sidewalk. They would likely have to waste a lot of space on a vestibule in order to get the two entrances and ensure security, but it’d do wonders for the approachability of the store. The current overall site design is awful.

 

I think that store will remain the grocery for OTR, and eventually we will see what was supposed to be built in this development somewhere else downtown. It's only a matter of time before there's sufficient demand for a higher end small format urban grocery store downtown. They would do a lot of business during the lunch hours with prepared foods, a few thousand more residents to increase daily grocery customers is all it will take.

 

Not sure what you mean by parking on 15th.  I think in my mind what they would have to do is make another garage in the rear of the building with an approach from Walnut.  Then they could redevelop all the vacant buildings on East 15th Street, curl back around and fill in the blanks on Walnut between 15th and 14th, then Kroger could build out to curb on Vine Street and add 3-4 stories of apartments.

 

Buildings line East 15th Street and sometimes parking is tight already with just a few buildings occupied.  They will need to build another garage in that vacant lot behind Krogerto accommodate traffic from an expanded store, to accommodate parking for redeveloped units on East 15th Street, and the 1400 and 1500 block of Walnut.  It is already fairly tight as it is and most of the buildings are still vacant.

Right on the money. I don't believe I've contributed to this thread yet, but both of you echo my thoughts. It wouldn't matter if the clientele in OTR demands a better store/selection from Kroger. Why? Because those same people have the means to drive to another, superior store and Kroger knows that. Why would they invest in a new store that serves customers they already serve elsewhere?

 

Not saying it's right or I agree with it, but I understand the business reasoning behind it.

 

The ARE investing in the OTR Kroger.  I honestly believe the OTR Kroger works harder to please their customers more than any other store in the city.  I've been shopping there for 8 years and yes, it USED to be terrible.  It definitely earned its reputation.  But the past three years they've been updating their offerings constantly.  It seems like every two weeks there are new shelves, or updated registers, or new produce sections.  They've got a whole wall of health food options now.  They've chipped away at their collection of 40s and added craft beer selections.

 

I get the impression from those of you who are complaining about the store that you've never actually made it beyond the parking lot.  Yes...the parking lot is an issue.  But as you mention, fixing that issue is a big ticket upgrade.  One they can't actually invest in until the local residents start shopping there more. 

 

I haven't personally seen their books, but I have heard from a few legitimate sources that the past two years that store has actually turned a profit.  There's a chance the store will survive and potential it could expand in the future.  Companies like Kroger don't build small urban store like that anymore, so yes...WE ARE LUCKY to have that store still around after 40 years of perpetually losing business.  The only way it will expand though, is if the neighborhood gets behind and supports it.  GO IN THERE and talk to the manager.  They are working VERY hard to cater to the neighborhood.

 

Meh, that attitude is just too sentimental for me. Really. You're talking about supporting this store like its run by a struggling family grocer. This is Kroger. This is Kroger's global headquarters. If Harris Teeter can build a store in uptown Charlotte and Publix can build a store in downtown Orlando, Kroger can sure as hell build a modern urban format store in the basin.

 

As for made it beyond the parking lot. Well, I feel it's a bit beneath me to bite on that one and vouch for my credentials as an urbanist. Getting back to the topic, this whole issue of grocer vs no grocer at 4th and Race strikes me as the same shenanigans that have been going on with a downtown grocery for a decade. It's just too fishy that Kroger is based here, has a lot of influence, and it's 2014 and there's no downtown grocery.

Downtown residential project courts Kroger as retail anchor

Rookwood Properties: We'd be happy to have them

 

CINCINNATI - Blue Ash developer Rookwood Properties is exploring a downtown residential project of up to $50 million at the corner of Central Parkway and Walnut Street, where Cincinnati’s streetcar line makes a right turn toward the Banks project and a grocery store could literally be built in the shadow of Kroger Co. headquarters.

 

http://www.wcpo.com/money/local-business-news/downtown-residential-project-courts-kroger-as-retail-anchor

Right on the money. I don't believe I've contributed to this thread yet, but both of you echo my thoughts. It wouldn't matter if the clientele in OTR demands a better store/selection from Kroger. Why? Because those same people have the means to drive to another, superior store and Kroger knows that. Why would they invest in a new store that serves customers they already serve elsewhere?

 

Not saying it's right or I agree with it, but I understand the business reasoning behind it.

 

The ARE investing in the OTR Kroger.  I honestly believe the OTR Kroger works harder to please their customers more than any other store in the city.  I've been shopping there for 8 years and yes, it USED to be terrible.  It definitely earned its reputation.  But the past three years they've been updating their offerings constantly.  It seems like every two weeks there are new shelves, or updated registers, or new produce sections.  They've got a whole wall of health food options now.  They've chipped away at their collection of 40s and added craft beer selections.

 

I get the impression from those of you who are complaining about the store that you've never actually made it beyond the parking lot.  Yes...the parking lot is an issue.  But as you mention, fixing that issue is a big ticket upgrade.  One they can't actually invest in until the local residents start shopping there more. 

 

I haven't personally seen their books, but I have heard from a few legitimate sources that the past two years that store has actually turned a profit.  There's a chance the store will survive and potential it could expand in the future.  Companies like Kroger don't build small urban store like that anymore, so yes...WE ARE LUCKY to have that store still around after 40 years of perpetually losing business.  The only way it will expand though, is if the neighborhood gets behind and supports it.  GO IN THERE and talk to the manager.  They are working VERY hard to cater to the neighborhood.

 

Meh, that attitude is just too sentimental for me. Really. You're talking about supporting this store like its run by a struggling family grocer. This is Kroger. This is Kroger's global headquarters. If Harris Teeter can build a store in uptown Charlotte and Publix can build a store in downtown Orlando, Kroger can sure as hell build a modern urban format store in the basin.

 

As for made it beyond the parking lot. Well, I feel it's a bit beneath me to bite on that one and vouch for my credentials as an urbanist. Getting back to the topic, this whole issue of grocer vs no grocer at 4th and Race strikes me as the same shenanigans that have been going on with a downtown grocery for a decade. It's just too fishy that Kroger is based here, has a lot of influence, and it's 2014 and there's no downtown grocery.

 

Well apparently Kroger is considering building a new downtown store at Central Parkway & Walnut. (This conversation is spanning multiple threads so I'm not sure what was posted where.)

Right on the money. I don't believe I've contributed to this thread yet, but both of you echo my thoughts. It wouldn't matter if the clientele in OTR demands a better store/selection from Kroger. Why? Because those same people have the means to drive to another, superior store and Kroger knows that. Why would they invest in a new store that serves customers they already serve elsewhere?

 

Not saying it's right or I agree with it, but I understand the business reasoning behind it.

 

The ARE investing in the OTR Kroger.  I honestly believe the OTR Kroger works harder to please their customers more than any other store in the city.  I've been shopping there for 8 years and yes, it USED to be terrible.  It definitely earned its reputation.  But the past three years they've been updating their offerings constantly.  It seems like every two weeks there are new shelves, or updated registers, or new produce sections.  They've got a whole wall of health food options now.  They've chipped away at their collection of 40s and added craft beer selections.

 

I get the impression from those of you who are complaining about the store that you've never actually made it beyond the parking lot.  Yes...the parking lot is an issue.  But as you mention, fixing that issue is a big ticket upgrade.  One they can't actually invest in until the local residents start shopping there more. 

 

I haven't personally seen their books, but I have heard from a few legitimate sources that the past two years that store has actually turned a profit.  There's a chance the store will survive and potential it could expand in the future.  Companies like Kroger don't build small urban store like that anymore, so yes...WE ARE LUCKY to have that store still around after 40 years of perpetually losing business.  The only way it will expand though, is if the neighborhood gets behind and supports it.  GO IN THERE and talk to the manager.  They are working VERY hard to cater to the neighborhood.

 

Meh, that attitude is just too sentimental for me. Really. You're talking about supporting this store like its run by a struggling family grocer. This is Kroger. This is Kroger's global headquarters. If Harris Teeter can build a store in uptown Charlotte and Publix can build a store in downtown Orlando, Kroger can sure as hell build a modern urban format store in the basin.

 

As for made it beyond the parking lot. Well, I feel it's a bit beneath me to bite on that one and vouch for my credentials as an urbanist. Getting back to the topic, this whole issue of grocer vs no grocer at 4th and Race strikes me as the same shenanigans that have been going on with a downtown grocery for a decade. It's just too fishy that Kroger is based here, has a lot of influence, and it's 2014 and there's no downtown grocery.

 

Well apparently Kroger is considering building a new downtown store at Central Parkway & Walnut. (This conversation is spanning multiple threads so I'm not sure what was posted where.)

 

I read that as the developer was wooing Kroger, and that Kroger wouldn't comment. Do you read into that as Kroger is interested? You would have a better sense than I would.