Would be great news, probably still a year at least until they break any ground since they move fairly slow in downtown.  That said, I don't mind having the parking it's just that the city subsidizes it so much. 

 

My hope is more developers slow down the development of parking, but that said, I think having the tunnel to Uptown will really slow down the addition of parking ramps in the center city since then you can live car free conveniently with having access to both uptown and downtown jobs.  That's my biggest thing with the tunnel, it not only will accelerate the development of Uptown, it will also accelerate the development of downtown and also allow developers to use less structured parking, requiring less city subsidization using TIFF and for structured parking.  sorry I rambled...

Well 3CDC is involved so there is certainly going to be a parking garage aspect to this project. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It will allow Court Street to start attracting more residents and businesses and allow developers get their parking requirements waived. I would be surprised it it was just a grocery store and parking garage, though. There will surely be some residential above.

^ You have to figure that they would not use the full pad for building, Since it is a supermarket, they will need space for truck loading and unloading (likely off Central. They may have a small parking pad up front for loading and unloading, so out of the 50k sq ft, maybe 35k is buildable for the store. So that makes the 2 story concept not as huge.

That's what the article alluded to.

 

I remember going to a few groceries in Washington D.C. when I was there earlier in the year. Since I had a car, I drove to a few and they had underground or above-ground parking in a garage. I had to buy usually $10 worth of goods to get the ticket validated for free.

 

I guess this explains the soil sampling that was going on...

Well 3CDC is involved so there is certainly going to be a parking garage aspect to this project. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It will allow Court Street to start attracting more residents and businesses and allow developers get their parking requirements waived. I would be surprised it it was just a grocery store and parking garage, though. There will surely be some residential above.

 

I would go out of my way to shop at the sadly doomed Kenwood Kroger in bad/cold weather entirely because of the garage. After 40yrs of Cincinnati cold, snow and trying to navigate a grocery cart in slush i felt like a rockstar loading the car in the dry warmish interior.

 

If I had to guess it'll basically be the same setup as 8th and Sycamore with 3CDC developing parking, a developer doing a residential tower above, then Kroger taking the place of the ground floor retail space.

I would also guess that the truck entrance would be on Central Parkway. Walnut has the streetcar, which would likely cause traffic issues with trucks trying to unload. Court is too narrow. It's bounded by a tiny alley on the East. The alley could be utilized as part of a plan, but it couldn't be the entire access. They would need access from Central Parkway.

I've heard that the city will not allow new curb cuts along the streetcar route due to safety issues. So truck access would have to be from Central Parkway.

Krogers is also pursuing a store in Downtown Phoenix thru their Fry's brand: http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2016/09/02/the-ins-and-outs-of-phoenix-s-36m-deal-to-snag-a.html

Like I mentioned in the other thread, but I guess I'll also mention it here. From what I hear this will be a Main & Vine type of store concept where there will be mainly organic products similar to whole foods.

 

Which is very cool, and I'm happy that an urban store concept is finally coming, especially along the street car line...but with that said, I can't help but feel that this will be a very expensive store to shop at for the lower income residents that live in OTR and downtown.

a Kroger with a new 800ft tower and corporate Kroger offices on top of it is what we need. :)

I think Kroger could take up most of the footprint even with truck loading...  Check out this setup for Mariano's flagship store in Chicago - I can't even tell where the trucks would load stuff:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8805004,-87.6473205,3a,75y,310.93h,96.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3iG934NnOnyIgfDticLLXQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I think Kroger could take up most of the footprint even with truck loading...  Check out this setup for Mariano's flagship store in Chicago - I can't even tell where the trucks would load stuff:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8805004,-87.6473205,3a,75y,310.93h,96.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3iG934NnOnyIgfDticLLXQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Looks like that Mariano's has a cut-through from Monroe to Madison, and you can see a truck in there: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8804873,-87.648019,3a,78.5y,364.62h,88.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm3NODK7DdBkOpA4Bm8C35A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

I'd like to see something similar with our hypothetical Kroger, with a two-way cut-through from Central Parkway to Court St. With the one-way streets (Walnut and Main) and medians (Central Parkway and Court), it would improve traffic flow if trucks and residents could enter and exit from both Court and Central Parkway. The <a href="https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1067019,-84.5127039,3a,75y,72.21h,92.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syrWG6CEztElBHdyd-EbXbA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656">10-story County Administration building</a> has west-facing windows, which would be nice to not block. So, it might make sense to widen Bowen St (alley) for cut-through access, ensuring that even if there is an above ground parking garage that fills most of the footprint, there would be enough of a gap between the structure and the County building to allow for sufficient light. I would hope that any hypothetical tower would be situated on the western side of the site.

I also think it would be cool to turn the large lot on the other side of the street into a movie theatre or entertainment destination for downtown residents. One can dream.

I also think it would be cool to turn the large lot on the other side of the street into a movie theatre or entertainment destination for downtown residents. One can dream.

 

Meh, I'd rather take the streetcar over to Newport on the Levee and see a movie at the AMC.

If St Louis can have both a movie theater and a grocery in its much worse off downtown so can Cincinnati...

Just an FYI, only three major Ohio downtowns have movie theaters: Columbus, Cleveland, and Dayton.

The Real Movies was on Race St. until about 2000, directly across from the old Blue Wisp.  They showed the Rocky Horror Picture show every Saturday night at midnight.  They closed right around when the Blue Wisp moved to E. 8th between Cheapside and Cheapside. 

I'm sort of hoping that one of those empty lots on Vine St in OTR can host a movie theater. Maybe a boutique movie theater like the one in the Gas light district. It would really buff up OTR's entertainment offerings aside from food and drinking. 

I'm sort of hoping that one of those empty lots on Vine St in OTR can host a movie theater. Maybe a boutique movie theater like the one in the Gas light district. It would really buff up OTR's entertainment offerings aside from food and drinking. 

 

Also, the Emery Theater used to show movies through the early 90s.  I think they did a thing where they had an organist play along with silent movies, but when I went there it was for "talkies".  Unfortunately, the theater is mired in mysterious legal issues. 

 

There was also the Skywalk Cinemas, but I never went there and don't know exactly where it was. 

^It was where Macy's is now on Race.

I've read that there's an unofficial rule in the movie theater business not to open a theater within a certain distance of another one so anything in DT Cincinnati is basically covered by Newport in the Levee.

Just an FYI, only three major Ohio downtowns have movie theaters: Columbus, Cleveland, and Dayton.

Cincinnati would essentially be in this group, geographically, due to the NOTL AMC theater just across the river in Newport, KY. It's not exactly on the DT street grid, but it is adjacent to a pedestrian bridge and the Banks/Smale park make the walk there pleasant.

Aerial shots of the site where the rumored Kroger would go:

 

 

I'm sort of hoping that one of those empty lots on Vine St in OTR can host a movie theater. Maybe a boutique movie theater like the one in the Gas light district. It would really buff up OTR's entertainment offerings aside from food and drinking.

 

I read an experimental theatre opened on main in otr but haven't been there yet. http://www.mini-cinema.org

This is speculation on my part but the Kroger employee parking lot appears to be holding up redevelopment of the group of buildings that face Vine St...getting Kroger to move elsewhere is critical to both putting a large development on its site and enabling redevelopment of a number of shells:

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah that Kroger definitely needs to go.  Really hope this supposed new Kroger is real and will actually happen.  They've been talking about a downtown grocery store for decades with nothing ever coming to fruition. 

^^Jake, I agree with your speculation.  I used to live on E. 15th and there is no off street parking hardly at all for the few amount of residences there now. 

 

I think they would tear down the Kroger and build new parking in that huge Lot in back, rehabilitate the buildings at least facing Vine Street, new construction facing Walnut, then the buildings on E. 15th Street would then have accessible parking to get those shells renovated.  I think they are renovating already though two shell buildings on the north side of 15th Street (3rd and 4th building starting from Vine).

Some comments on a downtown Kroger: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/03/01/take-an-early-tour-of-kroger-s-new-corryville.html

 

Kroger has talked for years about trying to put a supermarket in downtown Cincinnati. CEO Rodney McMullen told me last year that Kroger has been working with the city of Cincinnati for a decade to find the right spot.

 

“We’ve been working with the city for a long time,” McMullen told me then. “They want a store downtown, we want a store downtown. We’re going to eventually figure out the right project.”

 

Nothing is imminent on that front, but Pray said Kroger could use some aspects of the Corryville store design for a downtown store when it happens.

 

“Corryville is urban, but it’s not as urban as downtown,” Pray said. “Every store we build is a learning opportunity, and this is no exception. Every project builds on the previous one.”

 

Pray said a downtown store is “highly complicated, extensive and complex.”

 

But he expects it to happen.

 

“I’m cautiously optimistic,” he said.

Pray said a downtown store is “highly complicated, extensive and complex.”

 

Meanwhile, in the rest of major cities' downtowns...

Yeah if Grosse Pointe can pull off an urban-ish grocery store along Kercheval, an actual city with an actual downtown shouldn't have any issues. I wouldn't be surprised if it's because the City isn't pushing back hard enough on getting one built the right way or have too many other random barriers in place.

I say it is about 2 or within 2 years away before there will be a downtown store announced. I predict is will be on the lot adjacent to the Auditor's office. Once complete they will raze the OTR store and develop that parcel into condos.

Pray said a downtown store is “highly complicated, extensive and complex.”

 

Meanwhile, in the rest of major cities' downtowns...

 

Its really complicated because they probably want to add the drive-thru pharmacy and gas station they put in every new store and the city won't let them.

I say it is about 2 or within 2 years away before there will be a downtown store announced. I predict is will be on the lot adjacent to the Auditor's office. Once complete they will raze the OTR store and develop that parcel into condos.

 

Exactly. The pressure to build a new store isn't going to come from Kroger wanting to build one or the city pushing them. It's going to come from 3CDC wanting to replace the current store with new development and saying, come on, build a new store already so we can have your old one.

Pray said a downtown store is “highly complicated, extensive and complex.”

 

Meanwhile, in the rest of major cities' downtowns...

 

Its really complicated because they probably want to add the drive-thru pharmacy and gas station they put in every new store and the city won't let them.

 

And their beloved hateful area full of old ladies in front of the store that no one should ever drive through (but always do) will be a regular street instead.

I say it is about 2 or within 2 years away before there will be a downtown store announced. I predict is will be on the lot adjacent to the Auditor's office. Once complete they will raze the OTR store and develop that parcel into condos.

 

Exactly. The pressure to build a new store isn't going to come from Kroger wanting to build one or the city pushing them. It's going to come from 3CDC wanting to replace the current store with new development and saying, come on, build a new store already so we can have your old one.

 

Disagree with this. Politically 3cdc will face a huge amount of gentrification backlash trying to replace OTR Kroger with condos. I'm sure any number of projects would be easier for them to do before taking that on.

There don't seem to be any repercussions for the existing gentrification claims anyway, so what difference does it make?

There don't seem to be any repercussions for the existing gentrification claims anyway, so what difference does it make?

 

Sure there are. Hardly anything is getting through the community council these days which impacts all the rest of the steps in the development process.

 

 

Community Council approval is only needed in certain scenarios. The reason it was needed for Liberty & Elm is because they designated it as a "planned development" which requires community input. I'm not sure if 3CDC needed to get that designation for Mercer Commons or any of their other developments. 3CDC is also a power player and I guarantee they can push through anything they want ... it's just a matter of how much resistance they want to face. Getting the Community Council mad isn't a big deal, because the Community Council gets mad at every proposed development.

"We're going to eventually figure out the right project" is Kroger balking.

 

This is a company that tracks customer eye movements in-store, then parses it into a Deep Learning algorithm to increase the profit on green apples by $0.0000001. They know exactly what the right downtown project is for them in any given year. They just haven't gotten it yet.

I say it is about 2 or within 2 years away before there will be a downtown store announced. I predict is will be on the lot adjacent to the Auditor's office. Once complete they will raze the OTR store and develop that parcel into condos.

 

 

Exactly. The pressure to build a new store isn't going to come from Kroger wanting to build one or the city pushing them. It's going to come from 3CDC wanting to replace the current store with new development and saying, come on, build a new store already so we can have your old one.

 

Disagree with this. Politically 3cdc will face a huge amount of gentrification backlash trying to replace OTR Kroger with condos. I'm sure any number of projects would be easier for them to do before taking that on.

 

outside of a few concerned community members and Josh Spring and his ilk, I highly doubt moving the store less than a 1/2 mile to a more modern, bigger location with many more bells and whistles would be a detriment to the community. If it creates a true downtown Kroger, I think most people would be 100% for this.

 

^^I wonder if they use facial recognition. Like, "GCrites80s always goes in the right side door since he doesn't buy much bread. Civvik always squeezes oranges 3 times before buying them."

^^I wonder if they use facial recognition. Like, "GCrites80s always goes in the right side door since he doesn't buy much bread. Civvik always squeezes oranges 3 times before buying them."

 

They do use facial recognition. But I'm not sure if they use it to identify people as individuals.

Considering they can link you to your discount card based on the credit/debit card you use, even if you don't have your loyalty card with you, I have no doubt that facial recognition is just one more step in that process.

A couple years ago, I heard a talk at UC from one of Kroger's data analysts who explained they use heat map technology to identify each shopping "group" as they enter and leave the store so that they can measure how long the shopping trip takes. I don't think they use this technology in all of their stores (though I could be wrong)... I think they do it on an as-needed research basis.

Some comments on a downtown Kroger: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/03/01/take-an-early-tour-of-kroger-s-new-corryville.html

 

Kroger has talked for years about trying to put a supermarket in downtown Cincinnati. CEO Rodney McMullen told me last year that Kroger has been working with the city of Cincinnati for a decade to find the right spot.

 

“We’ve been working with the city for a long time,” McMullen told me then. “They want a store downtown, we want a store downtown. We’re going to eventually figure out the right project.”

 

Nothing is imminent on that front, but Pray said Kroger could use some aspects of the Corryville store design for a downtown store when it happens.

 

“Corryville is urban, but it’s not as urban as downtown,” Pray said. “Every store we build is a learning opportunity, and this is no exception. Every project builds on the previous one.”

 

Pray said a downtown store is “highly complicated, extensive and complex.”

 

But he expects it to happen.

 

“I’m cautiously optimistic,” he said.

What happened here? The quoted material above concerning a downtown store didn't come from the enclosed link about the new Corryville store.

^^I wonder if they use facial recognition. Like, "GCrites80s always goes in the right side door since he doesn't buy much bread. Civvik always squeezes oranges 3 times before buying them."

 

About two years ago I talked to a girl who worked at Dunhumby who said they tracked Dunhumby's employees and had an annual award for who bought the most condoms.  She said the guy who won was buying a truly insane number, like over 1,000 a year. 

subocincy[/member] - yeah, that quote was pulled from the most recent article. It's near the end of the article. You might have to hit the "Read More" link to see it all.

 

 

I always remember the weirdest thing when I first moved to Cincinnati, at Kroger they got my on the Kroger Plus card right away, and about 2 weeks later I received some mail showing exactly the things I bought and they were on sale.  I didn't put two and two together and thought that's the strangest thing that I got coupons on the exact things I bought.

I talked to my neighbor who works at Dunhumby and he explained everything to me, it was kind of embarrassing I didn't put two and two together.

 

The weirdest thing to me still though, I will be on my work desk buying something online or looking at pricing at things (during breaks of course ;-)), then I will get on my phone later on in the day online and I will see an ad for the exact thing I was looking up on my desk top.  So strange to me still

I went to the new Corryville Kroger over the weekend and the place failed to impress.  It's only five days old and there is already tons of litter in the parking lot, abandoned carts in the aisles, random stuff put on random shelves, super-long waits at the checkout, etc.  It even has a "diabetes care" aisle.  So it's basically a fresh coat of paint on the old one. 

 

I'm not convinced that the stigma of the "Kroghetto" is behind us.  The atmosphere in the new store is pretty much how the old one used to be, but with wider aisles, seafood, and organic produce for the yuppies.