Imagine you packed your apartment full of groceries.  That would be a lot of stuff.

Indeed, it would be about the size of a large gas station convenient store.  But if it is run well and stocked with a good selection of quality merchandise, it can be a place to get some essentials for Downtown residents and a neighborhood anchor.

Imagine you packed your apartment full of groceries.  That would be a lot of stuff.

 

I don't know. My apartment is pretty small.

I agree...1,300 sf isn't a large as I was hoping, but it is certainly a step in the right direction.  Especially considering this is a hometown guy trying to make things work.  He could end up being the trial here for others to look at...it could potentially encourage one of the bigger boys (Trader Joes, Publix, Kroger, Whole Foods, etc) to step in and open up shop.  Both could easily coexist...I still think that the fourth street area (in the vicinity of Tower Place) could be a fantastic location for a large-scale grocery store.

I would think the St Xavier lot, which would be well serviced by the streetcar would be an excellent location as well

That's great news, but a 1,300 square-foot grocery store is pretty small! 

 

I was thinking the same thing, but this 1,300 sq ft place is going to be an addition to what he already has there on Court St., right?

1,300 square-foot grocery store next to his butcher shop by March. In the store he plans to sell dairy products, eggs, produce, bread, dry goods and other grocery items, plus have a deli counter with room for people to sit down and eat.

 

Meat will still be on sale next door at the butcher shop.

 

Exactly^ this is 1300 in addition, not total.  Great news!

Yesterday I was walking south on Race past Findlay Market at about 4pm and saw a professionally dressed white woman, probably about 28, walking south on the opposite side of the street with two huge bags of groceries.  She was heckled relentlessly by the locals all the way to Liberty St. (reminiscent of that old "American Girl in Italy" photo, but much more vicious), where our paths diverged, and I had to wonder if she does this all the time or if she unknowingly walked up there on someone's advice and didn't know what she was getting into.  Those guys are so in tune to the various diversionary tactics put on by outsiders that I myself was called out for acting like I was on hold when in fact I was on hold talking to someone on my cell phone.   

Yesterday I was walking south on Race past Findlay Market at about 4pm and saw a professionally dressed white woman, probably about 28, walking south on the opposite side of the street with two huge bags of groceries.  She was heckled relentlessly by the locals all the way to Liberty St. (reminiscent of that old "American Girl in Italy" photo, but much more vicious), where our paths diverged, and I had to wonder if she does this all the time or if she unknowingly walked up there on someone's advice and didn't know what she was getting into.  Those guys are so in tune to the various diversionary tactics put on by outsiders that I myself was called out for acting like I was on hold when in fact I was on hold talking to someone on my cell phone.   

 

Who was harassing her? The same people that were out in force when the crane tipped over?

Let's keep this thread on track.

>Who was harassing her? The same people that were out in force when the crane tipped over?

 

I don't know who was down there when the crane fell but it's the same type of clowns who have been haunting the Findlay Market vicinity for my entire lifetime.  I'm amazed at how much safer the neighborhood feels south of Liberty these days, but it seems not much has changed in that area.  Personally I don't care about these characters and what they say or yell at me while I'm taking photographs or simply walking by but women don't deserve it and certainly can't be blamed for not wanting to visit Findlay Market because of it. 

 

This is part of the argument for the streetcar. We all know the folks Jmeck is referring to. They hang out around Kaldi's too.

Is it true that Trader Joe's is still planning on opening a store across the river in KY?

This is part of the argument for the streetcar. We all know the folks Jmeck is referring to. They hang out around Kaldi's too.

 

That's got to be AWESOME for business.

Talks are again heating up about Downtown and its lack of a full-scale grocery store.  More and more residents continue to move into Downtown, OTR, East End, West End but still the full-scale grocery store seems to elude that market.  Sure there is Findlay Market and the Kroger on Vine in OTR, but for most those are a far cry from the daily needs that they would like to have met within walking distance.  My Top 3 locations for a Downtown grocery store would be 7th & Vine, Tower Place (along 4th), and 7th/8th & Sycamore.  As for what kind of place I think a Whole Foods, Sunflower Market, or Trader Joe's would be nice...even a Publix would work nicely.  I've lost all hope with Kroger on just about everything they do.

 

More Information:

Downtown waiting for grocery of its own - Cincinnati Enquirer (12/24/07)

I've got your Downtown grocery right here - UrbanCincy (12/26/07)

Isn't there a grocer with about 900 sq ft of space at Garfield Place & Elm?  I believe they even sell cold-cuts.

Isn't there a grocer with about 900 sq ft of space at Garfield Place & Elm?  I believe they even sell cold-cuts.

 

Yes....Sunshine Find Foods.  They sell Graeter's Ice Cream by the pint and have yummy, inexpensive homemade soup as well.

they also have really good sandwiches and a lunch special everyday

The point I am trying to make is, at what point do we consider a grocer an "official Downtown Grocer"?  Does 400 extra square feet of space suffice or are we not going to be happy until a Trader Joes, Speciality Kroger, IGA or another 10,000 sq ft. grocer opens up? 

 

What is the square footage of the Over-the-Rhine grocer so we can have a baseline.

I think what we're talking about here is a grocer that carries everything in one spot that a full-scale grocery store has to offer.  That would be meats, produce, dairy, cereals, etc, etc...Right now Downtown has a couple of places that are close, but don't offer everything that you might need.  Sunshine Foods is nice, but it too lacks many of the things that a lot of people consider staples of a typical grocery store.

 

If you can carry all the typical items within a square footage of 5,000sf then so be it...if it takes closer to 50,000 then so be it, but no one (except for the OTR Kroger...kind of) really carries everything you might need.

The point I am trying to make is, at what point do we consider a grocer an "official Downtown Grocer"?  Does 400 extra square feet of space suffice or are we not going to be happy until a Trader Joes, Speciality Kroger, IGA or another 10,000 sq ft. grocer opens up? 

 

What is the square footage of the Over-the-Rhine grocer so we can have a baseline.

 

The OTR Kroger is 30,000 square feet

While we are all happy that someone would invest in the city and open a business that caters to the local residents and some business workers, I think it is safe to say that a 1,300 sq ft. store would hardly classify as a "Downtown Grocer" when you compare it to the OTR Kroger of 30,000 sq ft.  I applaud them regardless of the size of the business, my desire in these questions is to set some sort of baseline for what many of us are all looking for.  Seems like a Grocer around 30,000 sq ft. is a good start.

 

In the mean time Downtown has:

 

2 Downtown Walgreens

3 Downtown CVS's

1 Sunshine Fine Foods on Garfield Place & Elm (Cold Cuts, Grains?)

1 Avril Bleh Meat Market on Court (Butcher - Cold Cuts)

1 City Cellars on Race (Wine & Spirits)

1 Cianciolo on Main (Produce)

1 Silverglades on Sycamore (Cold Cuts, Beverages)

1 4th & Plum Connivence Store

1 Connivence Store (Name?) on Vine between 7th & Garfield Place

 

With a 30,000 sq ft. Kroger and Findlay Market (open Saturday & Sunday) in Over-the-Rhine.

 

Can we possibly get some store hours to these businesses to help some of the Downtown residents?

Here is a two-story Kroger in the Midtown/Buckhead Atlanta area.  See its location HERE!

 

Unfortunately there is no access from the street side of the building.  The facade is alright (much better than the Mt. Washington Kroger), but could still be improved upon in my opinion.

 

Looking back towards Midtown (you can see the Wachovia Bldg at Atlantic Station)

 

Inside the store now, I didn't see any of the innovative shopping cart escalators that I've seen in other places (i.e. Target)...so this is another area where improvements might need to be made.

 

And finally a couple of quick shots to illustrate the store design...it had an open second floor which gave it a great feel, and more visibility for the second level.

 

 

Overall it is pretty good, but the whole store turns its back on the street, but I'm not sure that I blame it.  Peachtree Street, at this particular point, is completely automobile dominated...and there is very little foot traffic.  There are some townhouse and what not behind the parking lot of the Kroger where it seemed many people walked from to get their groceries.

 

All in all, it was fundamentally suburban, but took on a slightly more urban edge.  With some changes to the design it could be a more successful urban grocery model.

atl sucks

Here is a two-story Kroger in the Midtown/Buckhead Atlanta area. 

Here is Wikipedia's description of Buckhead Atlanta:

The area has numerous luxury hotels, including an InterContinental, a Grand Hyatt, a JW Marriott, and a Ritz-Carlton. The area also includes more modest lodgings, as well as many restaurants, bars, and nightclubs. Buckhead is home to two of the nation's fourteen Mobil five-star restaurants — Seeger's and The Dining Room at the Ritz-Carlton Buckhead. Publications have referred to Buckhead as the "Beverly Hills of the South," and Robb Report magazine has consistently ranked it one of the nation's "10 Top Affluent Communities" for "some of the most beautiful mansions, best shopping and finest restaurants in the southeastern United States".

^ I lived in Buckhead for a year. I had a very different experience than described by Wikipedia. Of course that was available if you had the money for it. Mostly there was a big mall, chain restaurants, clubs and a Rooms-to-Go. It felt like a dense suburb with a MARTA line. Our grocery store choices were the A&P or the Harris Teeter. Both had standard suburrb design with massive parking lot.

^I personally have not been too impressed with the commercial section of Buckhead, but the residential areas are quite nice...and for what it's worth Atlanta is trying to improve the area and make it more pedestrian friendly (along Peachtree).  Although that can be kind of hard when you have a 6-8 lane road as the main drag.

Someone asked for info about grocery stores in the downtowns of other cities.   Indianapolis has had its O'Malia's grocery downtown for about 17 years.   It was put in on the first floor of a former downtown Sears that was in the near northeast quadrant of downtown.  The former Sears was a three story building that had been wrapped in aqua aluminum sometime in the sixties.  Fortunately that was all taken off when the grocery went in.  There are offices on the top two floors.   The O'Malia's firm was bought out by another local grocery chain called Marsh about three years ago.   About a year ago, a complete renovation of the store occurred and the name was changed to Marsh.  The store is excellent - although when people complain, they usually have a problem with the prices, which aren't as low as typical suburban mega groceries like Meijer, Super Wal-Mart and the like.  It has about 40,000 square feet with a very good meat department, wine department, seafood section and a pretty decent supply of most other typical grocery items, including some nice gourmet type stuff.  The location is very ideal - right off of Massachusetts Avenue between the CBD, the Chatham Arch neighborhood, the Lockerbie neighborhood, the new residential developments going up on the near east side of downtown and within about two blocks of Riley Towers with its highrise apartments.  Many people stop in on their way home from work, even if they don't live in the immediate neighborhood.  There is also a Kroger about a mile and a half northeast of the central part of downtown.   The neighborhoods around it (Near North Side, Herron Morton, Martindale @the Monon) have been improving steadily for the past twenty years and rumors have been going on for a while that Kroger will tear it down and rebuild on the site with a much improved, more urban style grocery store.  The City Market (built in 1888) is on the near east side of downtown and has some decent produce, meats and ethnic items that can be picked up - although it doesn't do real great when competing with the convenience and larger amounts of grocery items available at the Marsh (O'Malias).   I agree that as a good corporate citizen, Kroger should put in an excellent store in downtown Cincinnati.  Even if they think they might not have enough customers right away, they should just use it as a cost leader and keep it going until it helps attract enough new residential development around it as a way to help improve their home town.

^ Just for reference, here is a pic of the grocery store in Indy while it was still an O'Malia's.  I can't imagine how hideous it must have looked with that aqua siding, but now looks great in the neighborhood.  But the real question is how is the store able to stay open without acres and acres of parking in front of it?  :roll:

 

It has a good sized parking lot on the west side of the building.  I would say the lot holds about 100 cars.  The lot also serves a mid sized hardware store, a dry cleaners and several other first floor stores in other buildings on the block like a hair salon and a real estate office.  I believe there is also a little bit of parking on an adjacent block for people who work in the grocery and in the offices on the second and third floors of the different buildings on the block.  Plenty of people walk and ride their bikes there as well.  The new "cultural trail", an 8 mile bicycle/pedestrian pathway loop currently being built around the different neighborhoods and cultural districts of downtown, (in its own right-of-way, separate from the roadway lanes) runs right past the Alabama Street side of the building which is shown in the picture above.  That should help continue to increase the amount of people walking and bicycling to the store.

Here is a link to a news story about the re-christening of the downtown grocery as a Marsh store.  Actually, as the story reads, the grocery has been there for 21 years.  There is a video that shows the reporter in the parking lot on the east side of the building.

 

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/14790366/detail.html

Avril-Bleh sets tentative open date for grocery

BY KEVIN LEMASTER | SOAPBOX CINCINNATI

May 6, 2008

 

*Images and hyperlinks can be found through the above link.

 

DOWNTOWN - Avril-Bleh & Sons Meat Market plans to open a convenience grocery next to their downtown butcher shop on May 13.

 

When the scaffolding comes down at 35 E Court Street, a restored façade and a new front entrance will welcome customers inside. But the interior will be the biggest surprise - the building's hardwood floors have been restored, as have the historic tin ceilings and a set of 120-year-old cabinets left over from the structure's former use as a restaurant supply company.

 

Owner Len Bleh has said that he plans to sell dairy products, eggs, produce, bread, dry goods and other staples. A deli counter and some limited seating space will make the store attractive for people wanting to grab a quick bite.

 

Urban Sites Properties performed the work for around $100,000, with the majority of the architectural work done by Mark Gunther of Wichman Gunther Architects.

 

Commercial-grade electric has been installed throughout the building, including the unfinished three stories above.

 

No decisions have been made for the upstairs spaces, though Greg Badger of Urban Sites Properties says they would be perfect for offices, galleries, or apartments.

 

Badger says there's no reason the venture won't be successful.

 

"They have a long history - they've been there since 1894," he says.  "There's strength in the history, and in the downtown location."

 

The Avril-Bleh & Sons Meat Market has been making sausages, hams, cold cuts, and smoked and roasted meats since 1894.

^ I wonder if the hours of the grocery will be the same as Avril's?  If so, that really doesn't help me out if they are not open in the evenings.  Thank goodness for Walgreens!

^ I wonder if the hours of the grocery will be the same as Avril's?  If so, that really doesn't help me out if they are not open in the evenings.  Thank goodness for Walgreens!

 

Yes! Where are the hours???

So here's what Milwaukee has done with downtown grocery.  It's certainly been a success story here.  I just thought I'd share, and give me two cents on how it might apply to Cincy down at the bottom....

 

 

Milwaukee opened it's first major downtown grocery store in 2003.  MetroMarket is the largest grocery store in the entire metro area and stocks nearly everything imaginable.  Combine a standard suburban supermarket with a Whole Foods, add a parking structure and access to a few major bus routes and you have MetroMarket.

 

(This massive parking lot is for the post office across the street.  The parking structure for the store is really compact.)

 

 

 

 

Since the store has opened it has fared very well and is always packed with locals.  We've also seen the opening of the Milwaukee Public Market and Whole Foods in the near area with much impact on MetroMarket.  (Both are shown below)  These were all experiments when they opened and all have been strong.  (The public market had a rough stretch, but it is now owned by the neighborhood organization and is doing quite well.) 

 

Milwaukee Public Market

 

 

Whole Foods

 

What's important to note though, is that all these are anchored by the small local markets.  The tiny stores are what make the neighborhood.  Milwaukee has some great examples that dot the residential areas of downtown.  Distance from my house:

 

 

Koppa's (1 block away):

 

Free Atari!

 

 

Beans & Barley (4 blocks away):

 

 

Glorioso Brothers (6 blocks away):

 

 

None of this was around 15 years ago.  (Except for Glorioso Brothers, but it was a hell hole before)  I guess what I'm saying is that the residents NEED to make their presence know to attract a store.  Start with the smaller neighborhood chains.  EVEN IF THEY'RE DIVES RIGHT NOW.  Talk to the managers and let them know what you, as a customer would hope to see on the shelves.  If enough local residents do this, the little corner markets will grow.  Once the corner markets grow, the big guys will most certainly move in.  They watch trends like that.  Cincinnati has what it takes, the urban dwellers just need to make themselves known. 

 

PS - so last time I was in Cincinnati I was amazed at the number of crowds that stood on street corners and were somewhat intimidating.  But I went up to a few and just said, "Hey, how are you doing?"  And the majority of those crowds were pretty inviting and fun to talk to.  I only got one, "get on outta here, whitey."  But I'm sure if they were approached by people like me on a daily basis they'd probably get annoyed and move somewhere else.  Anyway, take this all with a gain of salt.  I live in Milwaukee, and I don't intend to sound like I understand the way Cincinnati works.  But hey, anything's worth a shot at least once.  And maybe, just maybe, more people will feel comfortable going into the Vine St Kroger.

 

 

I love the look of that Milwaukee Public Market.  That thing has a very cool look, inside and out.  Thanks for posting those pics.  The Metro Market, on the other hand, just looks like someone dropped a suburban Kroger or Target within the city limits and changed the logo.  I think downtown would be wise to take what it can get at this point when it comes to grocery stores, but I hope that when a big one finally opens it will be more pleasing to the eyes than the Metro Market.

 

As an aside, I can't wait to stop by Avril's once the expansion opens.  Very exciting stuff.

I really like that Milwaukee Public Market.

^ I wonder if the hours of the grocery will be the same as Avril's?  If so, that really doesn't help me out if they are not open in the evenings.  Thank goodness for Walgreens!

 

It would be nice to have them open in the evenings.  They are open on Saturdays from 9-5.

Avril-Bleh set to open downtown grocery

Business Courier of Cincinnati

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/05/19/daily10.html?surround=lfn

 

Avril-Bleh & Sons Meat Market, the downtown shop that has been selling sausages, meats and seafood for more than a century, will open its neighboring grocery and deli shop May 21.

 

The new store, called Avril-Bleh Marketplace and Deli, will operate at 37 E. Court St. in a former restaurant supply store. The 1,300-square-foot market will carry most groceries, including produce, dairy, frozen foods, spices, Madisono's gelato & sorbet, and Aglamesis' Brothers ice cream, as well as paper goods and cleaning supplies.

 

The deli counter will prepare hot sandwiches, including grilled cheese, plus sell homemade soup, fruit salad and antipasta. It will offer indoor and outdoor seating.

 

The market will be operate Tuesday through Saturday.

 

Owner Len Bleh will hold a ribbon cutting at 10:00 a.m.

 

 

Tues-Sat!? Whaaa ...

I wasn't going to say anything, but I thought that too.    You can bet that would change if it is something that goes over well.

they are very open to suggestions, be it inventory/stock or hours of operation.  Just give them your business and follow it with suggestions....they will evolve provided it makes business sense.

There's a great new little market that just opened late last year in the near north side of Indianapolis - in the new "Fall Creek Place" neighborhood.  It is called "Goose - the Market".  You can check out their web site at www.goosethemarket.com

Some great meats and cheeses and other deli stuff.  Great sandwiches too.  Its in a little storefront in the middle of the neighborhood.  The location is about a mile and a half north of downtown.

I visited the OTR Kroger Friday afternoon for the first time. It had a pretty good selection of stuff given the size. IT seems to be about the same size or a bit larger thab many of the neighborhood based grocery stores I've visited in large cities in europe.

 

We usually run over to the Kroger in Bellevue when we are looking for the basics. One thing that struck me about the vine street location is that it is much cleaner, and the staff much friendlier than the one in Bellevue (my wife and I both think the that store is kind of a dump).

 

To make Cincinnati's OTR feel even more German, I think an Aldi's would go great. One of the fascinating parts about walking through German cities is that Aldi (every bit as classy there as here) will be located right next to lots of very high end retail. With their recent move toward a more middle-class audience, it would an interesting addition to the area. They are also owned by the kin of the Trader Joe's folks (they are not related corporately).

I visited the OTR Kroger Friday afternoon for the first time. It had a pretty good selection of stuff given the size. IT seems to be about the same size or a bit larger thab many of the neighborhood based grocery stores I've visited in large cities in europe.

 

We usually run over to the Kroger in Bellevue when we are looking for the basics. One thing that struck me about the vine street location is that it is much cleaner, and the staff much friendlier than the one in Bellevue (my wife and I both think the that store is kind of a dump).

 

 

Some of my suburban friends are horrified that we sometimes go to the Vine St. Kroger.  However, I think the store itself is fine.  It has most of the basics.  And for what it doesn't have, there are other stores nearby that  cover it.

We have some carry outs, but they advertise booze, cigarettes, and lotto tickets and food seems to be an afterthought. If the owners don't really care about providing decent food to the community, do we really want to give them our money? For groceries here you have North Market and there is (sadly) a suburban Kroger plopped in the Brewery District. I believe even people living in the apartments and condos on either side of the huge parking lot drive over there instead of walking through that. Then there's a Giant Eagle just north of Downtown on Neil. We do have City Pharmacy which is a local alternative to CVS Downtown, so our options are also limited, but if you do have to shop at a chain there are a couple just a stone's throw from here. With some more residents, Cincy's compact Downtown shouldn't have much trouble getting a Downtown grocer. We're poised to get one, but the 1st location of the Ohioanna All-Star Market is going to be in the Short North. Though we may get a Blue Market before then. I personally much prefer smaller, local grocery stores. Keep the money in your Downtown and you get a place you can walk, bike, take the bus, or a streetcar to. Local items aren't trucked in from CA wasting lots of gas with that annual $300 billion subsidy that the trucking industries get.

^I really like Columbus' Sunflower Market in the Gateway District (near OSU).

^While it lasted lol

They'll get something new in there (I think Giant Eagle or something). The South Gateway is still on fire though.

I peered into the window of the Avril-Bleh "grocery" expansion while i was walking through the area on Sunday morning.  I hate to (but feel that I must) say that it looks like a big let down. For something with so much press, I was at surprised that it appears to be nothing more than a couple of sliding door refrigeration units (the kind that usually hold soft drinks), and maybe a couple of shelves.

 

It appeared to be significantly less product than the Silverglades on 8th, and not even close to what a typical downtown Walgreen's carries.

 

Sorry for not supressing my disappointment.

 

:-(