Unfortunately the quote I saw only said that is has sparked "renewed interest" in an urban format location.

Possibility of a Harris Teeter location downtown...too bad I'm not a wcpo insider to read more :roll:

 

http://www.wcpo.com/money/local-business-news/kroger-co-kr-harris-teeter-acquisition-could-lead-to-new-downtown-cincinnati-store

 

It would not be a Harris Teeter store since the name is not in Cincinnati, it would be under Kroger name, if it would happen.

Vine St. Kroger is rapidly improving. The produce section is now pretty decent.

OTR Kroger is a decent store.  That being said, with all the uncertainty over a new grocery as part about the Fourth and Race deal, the growing redevelopment and change in OTR, and the fact that it is blocks away from Kroger's headquarters, you would think renovating that store soon has to be on Kroger's radar.  In terms of room to expand, there is a adjacent surface lot to the north along 15th St., and it looks like there may be some room in back of the store too.  Also it looks like half the building has a second floor (Maybe they already use this as a stockroom?)  Of course the challenge would be maintaining it as a fully functioning store during renovation. 

 

I think they should add a Bistro similar to the Kroger at Harper's Point on Montgomery Rd.  Before anyone says "Of course only a fancy Bistro would be good enough for you, you gentrifying yuppie scum" (not that many people on this forum would,) I think it would serve a unfulfilled need in the neighborhood.  Kroger Bistro has better-than-fast-food quality, healthy meals, at similar to fast food prices.  Meanwhile OTR is in desperate need of more convenient, low cost dining options.  Also, since Kroger HQ is right up the street, employees could utilize it for lunch.

Vine St. Kroger is rapidly improving. The produce section is now pretty decent.

 

Yes. Will continue to improve, more rapidly if more people would go there to buy vegetables. I bought some decent asparagus yesterday, mostly cause I felt sorry for it.

Development is just now approaching that block of Vine.  Once you have places like Kaze and the Eagle a block north of that grocery store, that Kroger will start to look like the blight in the neighborhood.  Maybe then you'll get some action on renovation.  As of right now, it's good to see that they are improving the selection inside the store.

Also it looks like half the building has a second floor (Maybe they already use this as a stockroom?)  Of course the challenge would be maintaining it as a fully functioning store during renovation. 

 

The back half of the Vine Street Kroger building is actually three stories, though I'm not sure what the upper floors are used for. I have no idea about feasibility, but perhaps the three story historic structure could be renovated to make a very cool (and unique) urban grocery store.  The streetview image below is taken from 15th Street and you can see the three-story original building. I'm curious if anybody could dig up old photos of the building before the 1-story front half was constructed.

 

 

The trash chute comes out of the second floor so they are definitely using it for receiving and/or stock of some sort. The large penthouse on the top of the building may be for a freight elevator, so maybe they do use the third floor for some stock as well?

Supermarkets not sold on downtown – yet

 

Kroger says it could be interested in building a grocery store Downtown. A Downtown leader says discussions about a grocery are accelerating. And every year, more Downtown residents cite a grocery as their biggest business need.

 

So why doesn’t a store just move in to fill it?

 

An Enquirer review finds that significant holdups still exist, 40 years after the last Downtown grocery left.

 

Store operators find the population not dense enough to support a thriving operation. And the right location, operating model and financing continue to be elusive, interviews with real estate and grocery experts show.

 

Cont

There's a taestell quote in there.

There's a taestell quote in there.

And not a Tom Luken quote

:-)

Talking about grocery stores is so boring!

 

yeah, I think I will just go to the grocery...

yeah, I think I will just go to the grocery...

 

I mean, it's not like anyone's going hungry. 

Store operators find the population not dense enough to support a thriving operation.

 

That's a lie.  Downtown Columbus has a full-service grocery store with only, I'd say, 3,000ish residence within a 10 block radius.  Ditto with Constantinos in Cleveland or better yet...the KROGER in downtown Portsmouth!  It even has a mural!!!

 

http://img.groundspeak.com/

Oh my god, that's SO SAD.  It's a well-executed mural, but still.

 

An older woman who grew up on Fourth Street downtown was telling me how nice downtown used to be before all of the businesses left. I asked her where she did her grocery shopping. She said that they drove to the suburbs, and then she almost broke into tears. So, even back then, 1950's or 1960's or so, she felt the need to drive to the suburbs to find a decent grocery store.

I'd imagine that a lot of the ones in cities at that time still made you ask for everything that wasn't in a can or a bag of flour. Unlike the self-serve supermarkets out in the 'burbs.

Store operators find the population not dense enough to support a thriving operation.

 

That's a lie.  Downtown Columbus has a full-service grocery store with only, I'd say, 3,000ish residence within a 10 block radius.  Ditto with Constantinos in Cleveland or better yet...the KROGER in downtown Portsmouth!  It even has a mural!!!

 

http://img.groundspeak.com/

 

Spent plenty of time staring at that one in college while sitting in Frank 'N Steins.

Kroger says, uh, maybe we will build a new store downtown...

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/06/26/kroger-changes-plans-to-open-downtown-cincinnati.html?ana=e_cinci_bn_newsalert&u=gU2E+Yuaao/G3KQNJ2opoHrlOrQ&t=1403806215

Kroger says, uh, maybe we will build a new store downtown...

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/06/26/kroger-changes-plans-to-open-downtown-cincinnati.html?ana=e_cinci_bn_newsalert&u=gU2E+Yuaao/G3KQNJ2opoHrlOrQ&t=1403806215

 

I really don't get their strategy. Why not build a flagship urban store at Central Parkway and Walnut, which serves both CBD and OTR residents, and close the existing tiny OTR store? Instead they want to build a very small store to serve the CBD and keep the existing small OTR store.

they're on a different level than us, man...

Kroger says, uh, maybe we will build a new store downtown...

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/06/26/kroger-changes-plans-to-open-downtown-cincinnati.html?ana=e_cinci_bn_newsalert&u=gU2E+Yuaao/G3KQNJ2opoHrlOrQ&t=1403806215

 

I really don't get their strategy. Why not build a flagship urban store at Central Parkway and Walnut, which serves both CBD and OTR residents, and close the existing tiny OTR store? Instead they want to build a very small store to serve the CBD and keep the existing small OTR store.

 

Agree with taestell 100% on this strategy.

 

Surely with the streetcar tracks going right past their building someone there realizes there might be a benefit to locating right on the line?  On the midpoint of it as well?

 

Ideally it would be the base of a new residential tower on the east side of Walnut.  But if the owners of that lot hold out on them for too much $, they should just put it where the muffler shop is now right next to the HQ. (Muffler shop could move to the recently for sale garage at 12th and Central or other nearby location.)

 

I've said this before, but I would actually like some amenities they have at larger stores such as bistro, salad bar, or sushi counter to be included. 

I really don't get their strategy. Why not build a flagship urban store at Central Parkway and Walnut, which serves both CBD and OTR residents, and close the existing tiny OTR store? Instead they want to build a very small store to serve the CBD and keep the existing small OTR store.

 

well the way I see it, Kroger needs to learn how to make smaller stores profitable.  The entire model for the company is in big box suburban stores where volume is key and it's assumed that shoppers are coming in once a week or less and making big shopping trips.

 

My guess is that Kroger's finally taken a good hard look at demographic trends and realized that they'll need to figure out how to have stores in city centers in the future in order to keep current with the market. Building a suburban-style store downtown and just sticking a parking garage under it (or whatever) won't really teach them anything new, so instead they're looking to do an experiment with a smaller but very high quality store that is based on a model where customers stop by multiple times a week. That's my theory as a Kroger employee, anyway.

 

^I have to wonder if Kroger is even capable of making a profitable small store. It seems that Walgreens, CVS, etc., already have that market covered.

^Walmart does.

Kroger has plenty of small grocery stores - it just won't admit to it. Wellston, Ohio has a very small Kroger - me and Ink went in there on amazement, and they surprisingly carry a lot of products (http://goo.gl/maps/aYgBe). You won't find all brands and all items, but it's more than what an average person would need. McConnelsville, Ohio has another small Kroger - maybe smaller than Wellston (http://goo.gl/maps/1cl5C).

 

Nelsonville, Ohio: http://goo.gl/maps/t7eAp

Small towns in WV have a ton too. There's even a website that documents them and has pictures.

I really don't get their strategy. Why not build a flagship urban store at Central Parkway and Walnut, which serves both CBD and OTR residents, and close the existing tiny OTR store? Instead they want to build a very small store to serve the CBD and keep the existing small OTR store.

 

well the way I see it, Kroger needs to learn how to make smaller stores profitable.  The entire model for the company is in big box suburban stores where volume is key and it's assumed that shoppers are coming in once a week or less and making big shopping trips.

 

My guess is that Kroger's finally taken a good hard look at demographic trends and realized that they'll need to figure out how to have stores in city centers in the future in order to keep current with the market. Building a suburban-style store downtown and just sticking a parking garage under it (or whatever) won't really teach them anything new, so instead they're looking to do an experiment with a smaller but very high quality store that is based on a model where customers stop by multiple times a week. That's my theory as a Kroger employee, anyway.

 

I believe Harris Teeter has a good small format store.  This recent acquisition could be one of the reasons Kroger has renewed this discussion.

 

Also, does anyone think this news validates the suspicions of Cranleyism over at the old Pogues garage site?  I believe it's more that the Paragon Salon holding things up.

One of my friends from College grew up in a very small ohio town ~1,500 people maybe?

 

And they had a full service grocery store in their town.  Obviously it didnt have everything, but it had a butcher, produce, dairy... every thing the average person buys.

 

I wondered how that store could be successful, yet a grocery store in a downtown market with roughly 8x-10x the population couldnt be profitable according to kroger?

 

I realize costs are higher in an urban market, maybe i am missing something, but just was always interesting to me.

I think the big issue is that in an urban area, a lot of the people spending most of the money can get to other grocery stores. So if there is a better grocery store 4 miles away (like in Newport) those shoppers may go to that store for most of their trips unless they need something small (like a case of beer or eggs or something).

This conversation reminds me of overhearing housewives talking at the pool when I was a kid. 

Captive audience in the small town maybe?  In the big downtown there may not be competing grocery stores, but there's Walgreen's, CVS, maybe some dry goods and hardware stores, and farmer's markets, all of which nibble away at the grocery store's margins.  This is on top of downtown residents usually being wealthy/mobile enough to go out of the neighborhood to shop.  It's the trap that the Walnut Hills and to a lesser extent Corryville and even OTR Krogers face that I've mentioned in the past, the "choice" customers just drive to Hyde Park or Newport.

That's exactly what I do. I'll make a big trip every few weeks to the Newport Kroger since they have a handful of things I like that the OTR Kroger doesn't and anything I need in between those big trips I just grab at the Vine Street Kroger which I'm in generally every day or two. I know my friend who lives close to me does the same thing.

 

I actually really like the OTR Kroger. A complimentary store Downtown with some different items would do well I'd think.

^ I wonder if they try to parse that data through the Kroger Plus cards.  I imagine they would, seeing that someone usually shops at a particular store but occasionally goes to another to buy certain products is the kind of data that's otherwise very hard to gather, but it shows that the close-by store isn't serving a need.  Of course they may just think that the status quo is ok because those people are still getting the things they need regardless of where they get them.  That'd be a risky conclusion to make though because they can't track people who shop elsewhere or who simply don't buy things that they can't get at their local store, etc.

^ Yeah, it requires a very different way of thinking about grocery shopping.  I grew up in Colerain Township and the abiding system was a big grocery trip every week at the big Kroger by Northgate mall (which I think is gone now?).  But if you go to a larger city the stores are smaller and there are more frequent trips.

 

Just returned from two weeks in Italy and while the historic city centers have a selection of what we would consider small modern grocery stores (the size of say an Aldi), there were far more butcher shops, produce stands, etc.  On any walk from home to work you'd pass a number of these, and pop in for what you needed that day.

 

I imagine the big-trip-once-a-week system makes for higher margins for the grocery chain, which might be why Kroger is reluctant.

The stock-up system probably results in more wasted food unless you've got a pack of teenagers showing up after school to clean you out.

Kroger has plenty of small grocery stores - it just won't admit to it. Wellston, Ohio has a very small Kroger - me and Ink went in there on amazement, and they surprisingly carry a lot of products (http://goo.gl/maps/aYgBe). You won't find all brands and all items, but it's more than what an average person would need. McConnelsville, Ohio has another small Kroger - maybe smaller than Wellston (http://goo.gl/maps/1cl5C).

 

Nelsonville, Ohio: http://goo.gl/maps/t7eAp

 

Wellston is my hometown.  Smallest Kroger I've ever been in. 

Oh my, that Kroger in McConnelsville is sad.  It looks a lot like the old Pleasant Ridge Kroger, though smaller still.  http://goo.gl/maps/uZ3ky   

The stock-up system probably results in more wasted food unless you've got a pack of teenagers showing up after school to clean you out.

 

Something like 45% of the food produced in America is never consumed.  It was a cardinal sin in our house to waste food.  Our cupboards were bare.  No snacks, no nothing.  You go over to the average person's house and they have a fridge and freezer full of food that is going bad, then a pantry full of crap, then even more stockpiled in the basement or out in the garage.  It's absolutely flipping ridiculous. 

The stock-up system probably results in more wasted food unless you've got a pack of teenagers showing up after school to clean you out.

 

Something like 45% of the food produced in America is never consumed.  It was a cardinal sin in our house to waste food.  Our cupboards were bare.  No snacks, no nothing.  You go over to the average person's house and they have a fridge and freezer full of food that is going bad, then a pantry full of crap, then even more stockpiled in the basement or out in the garage.  It's absolutely flipping ridiculous. 

 

I keep 2-4 weeks worth of canned/dry goods in a large cupboard just in case. A lot of frozen and canned goods half shelf lives of several years, or even indefinitely if stored properly. I've had a box of corn starch since 2004. I think that encourages stockpiling.

 

I think the biggest waste of food is commercial, rather than residential, though. I don't have any inside knowledge of how much food goes past the "sell by" date at a typical grocery, but I wager it has to be more in a day than all the users of that grocery throw out in a week. I know Kroger has been trying to combat this with their "manager special" sticker prices, which I usually read as "Ram23's Dinner Tonight" stickers.

i think it's time to throw out that cornstarch

i think it's time to throw out that cornstarch

oops! never mind. I was wrong as usual-- http://www.stilltasty.com/articles/view/35

Even in my short time here, rarely do I see someone admit they were wrong!

i think it's time to throw out that cornstarch

oops! never mind. I was wrong as usual-- http://www.stilltasty.com/articles/view/35

 

While growing up in the 1990's my mother had a box of corn starch that looked like it was from the 1970's. There are a few things that you never, ever have to throw out if you store them properly (usually just avoid getting wet). Rice is another go-to apocalyptic proof item to keep excess stock of. Keep it dry and you can feed yourself for a long, long time.

 

Thinking back, the corn starch I have is actually from Trade Fair in Queens, NY (which is a very interesting small format urban grocery, by the way). Not only have I stockpiled it, I've traveled across several states with it.

Even in my short time here, rarely do I see someone admit they were wrong!

One of the things I found on the intrtubes long ago was that asking a question was about useless but if you stated something knowingly wrong, 99 people would be all over you.

So, instead of asking what the Main St speed limit was, you would just state that the speed limit on Main St was 75MPH.

 

My salt is from 1998.

 

Also hard liquor can go bad. I found some bottles in the bathroom cabinet at my parent's house that were at least 50 years old and left over by the previous occupants. They had separated into a dry, sticky layer and a mineral spirits layer.

Don't you like drinking turpentine?  Mmmm, smooth as gravel! 

I live in Covington (in a van down by the river) right by the Roebling bridge and a vacant retail site, at the foot of the bridge, is getting a deli/grocery store.

Good size store, maybe 4,000 sq. ft. nice. There is a Kroger in covington, but having this 100 feet from where is live is nice.

My salt is from 1998.

 

Also hard liquor can go bad. I found some bottles in the bathroom cabinet at my parent's house that were at least 50 years old and left over by the previous occupants. They had separated into a dry, sticky layer and a mineral spirits layer.

ok, did it do the trick, tho?