February 10Feb 10 Not getting signal priority is such a problem in Ohio. It's so simple there's no reason not to have it other than obstructionism.
February 11Feb 11 5 hours ago, Miami-Erie said: This has all the makings of a scandal. God I hope you're wrong. The last thing we need is for BRT in Cincinnati to be a real boondoggle. I'm afraid that's the way it's heading though.
February 11Feb 11 One of the biggest issues is that there are essentially 5 things you can do to speed up a bus. And Metro only has total control over two of them- Stop Consolidation & All Door Boarding. They have partial control over Level Boarding (still need the City's permission to build new raises stops) And no control over Signal Priority and Dedicated Bus-only Lanes.
February 11Feb 11 16 hours ago, Miami-Erie said: This has all the makings of a scandal. I don't know if it's a scandal, just the predictable results of what happens when you prioritize single-occupancy automobiles over public transit. Every new development from here on out is going to have "parking issues." We really need to build transit that will get people out of their cars. https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/02/10/evanston-apartments-mingo-ndukwe-approved-hoffman.html?csrc=6398&taid=67aabd38a440d000018e0021&utm_campaign=trueAnthemTrendingContent&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/02/07/ndukwe-corryville-housing-project.html
February 11Feb 11 58 minutes ago, thomasbw said: I don't know if it's a scandal, just the predictable results of what happens when you prioritize single-occupancy automobiles over public transit. Every new development from here on out is going to have "parking issues." We really need to build transit that will get people out of their cars. https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/02/10/evanston-apartments-mingo-ndukwe-approved-hoffman.html?csrc=6398&taid=67aabd38a440d000018e0021&utm_campaign=trueAnthemTrendingContent&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/02/07/ndukwe-corryville-housing-project.html Completely agreed and scandal isn't the best word for it but it'll be what local media says. "Boondoggle BRT" has a ring to it and will set transit back for decades if it catches on.
February 11Feb 11 I am hopeful that the next CEO of Metro takes over the BRT project and makes it much better than it is now. Darryl is great but he is retiring in a few months.
February 11Feb 11 2 hours ago, Miami-Erie said: I am hopeful that the next CEO of Metro takes over the BRT project and makes it much better than it is now. Darryl is great but he is retiring in a few months. Route's pretty much set, so really all the new CEO can do is push for signal priority and ask the City of Cincinnati to remove all on-street parking (or the median) most congested areas to allow for dedicated lanes. It's more or less out of their hands and up to City Council.
February 11Feb 11 On 2/9/2025 at 8:49 AM, thomasbw said: Metro isn't even saying they will have signal priority now. How much higher ridership is the 13mph bus going to get than the 11mph bus? Why is this bad? The smart traffic signal can still be set to prioritize the bus as it approaches the intersection, right? Signal priority only triggers when a bus is arriving, so now they can sell it as an improvement for all modes, at all times.
February 11Feb 11 8 minutes ago, Dev said: Why is this bad? The smart traffic signal can still be set to prioritize the bus as it approaches the intersection, right? Signal priority only triggers when a bus is arriving, so now they can sell it as an improvement for all modes, at all times. If that's what that means, that's good news.
February 11Feb 11 7 minutes ago, thomasbw said: If that's what that means, that's good news. I think the biggest risk is being an early adopter, in case weird failures hit for extended periods of time during the initial rollout, similar to how the streetcar struggled initially with some severe cold weather. The WLW crowd is going to attack this project no matter what, so it's better that it's over something that is fixable and normal people will forget about or never notice to begin with, than only fixating on core components that cannot be easily removed, like boarding stations that take up parking spaces. I'm caustically optimistic that this system could also detect people walking, using a bike, scooter, motorized wheelchair etc. so big upside if it works out.
February 11Feb 11 1 hour ago, Dev said: I think the biggest risk is being an early adopter, in case weird failures hit for extended periods of time during the initial rollout, similar to how the streetcar struggled initially with some severe cold weather. The WLW crowd is going to attack this project no matter what, so it's better that it's over something that is fixable and normal people will forget about or never notice to begin with, than only fixating on core components that cannot be easily removed, like boarding stations that take up parking spaces. I'm caustically optimistic that this system could also detect people walking, using a bike, scooter, motorized wheelchair etc. so big upside if it works out. I'm cautiously pessimistic about smart signals considering we've heard this song and dance before and as far as I can tell nothing came of it. https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/cityofcincinnati/news/smart-cincy-city-to-install-fiber-ring-in-downtown-cincinnati/#:~:text=CINCINNATI – As part of the,signals are managed and modified.
February 11Feb 11 21 minutes ago, thomasbw said: I'm cautiously pessimistic about smart signals considering we've heard this song and dance before and as far as I can tell nothing came of it. https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/cityofcincinnati/news/smart-cincy-city-to-install-fiber-ring-in-downtown-cincinnati/#:~:text=CINCINNATI – As part of the,signals are managed and modified. I don't see the relevance. Is there something about that project that they did not deliver that they said they would?
February 12Feb 12 7 hours ago, Dev said: I'm caustically optimistic… I like “caustically optimistic” - definitely using that one. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 12Feb 12 Lot of dramatics about signal priority, again based on a screenshot and a negativity bias toward BRT here. Members from Metro and one of the lead engineers on the project, along with a city DOTE staff member tagging on, presented at Downtown Resident's Council and spoke a bit about plans for signal priority. This was a fairly high-level conversation about how it could work and what signal priority is in general, but it's clear that signal priority is still part of the project. They also shared that an MOU between the city and Metro is currently being developed to prevent something like Cleveland turning it off. This was in response to another resident specifically asking about it, using the term BRT-creep - shoutout to him. There will be an explicit MOU based on who owns, is responsible for, and pays for each component of signal priority. They talked about integration with the streetcar, possibly emergency services, and lead pedestrian intervals as part of implementation but stressed that everything is still in the design and procurement process on that end and the city and Metro are working together on it. I forget if it's been posted here already among the negativity, but the possible BRT fleet vehicles will be present at a few engagement sessions this month. They currently have the possible buses in the area and being tested by operators, mechanics, etc. so it's fairly decent timing on the cold and winter weather this week for realistic conditions. I am admittedly fairly worried about an Indianapolis-type scenario, where the initial rollout of my service is negative or service is eventually cut due to the reliability of batteries or an unrealistic plan for charging. https://metrobrtproject.com/participate has the times/dates, the next being Fountain Square on Thursday, but also Mittenfest, Heart of Northside, and at the library later in the month. Just to reiterate - even at a place like Downtown Residents Council, there was pseudo-heckling about how the buses are actually one of the biggest causes of a lack of pedestrian safety downtown. Community councils, primarily run and attended by single family homeowners who do not take the bus, will broadly not be supportive of BRT. If you want an effective system, be prepared to counter those voices when decisions outside of Metro's hands, like parking, come to council. Edited February 12Feb 12 by shawk
February 12Feb 12 I hope BRT is successful and I hope we take the necessary steps to make it live up to its full potential. Here's where I'm coming from on signal priority- *There isn't a single Metro bus that currently receives signal priority anywhere in the system *Upon information and belief there's the capability for giving Metro signal priority in certain lights in Uptown but it's turned off and has never been used *It has been extremely difficult to get the City of Cincinnati to give the streetcar signal priority, even in locations that have no net effect on other traffic. For example it took years to make sure the streetcar wouldn't get a red light at Green and Race despite Green having no cross traffic (it's two one ways in opposite directions from Race). For streetcar-specific turn signals, the City hasn't prioritized those (which again, would result in no net change for the amount of time traffic in either direction gets a sign) or for the midblock signals where traffic isn't impacted at all. *I've spoken with a Metro employee who is concerned about how much, if any, signal priority will be given. *The City Council has to make (or will be blamed) for the hard decisions, such as removing all parking on Hamilton Ave from the end of the Northside Business district to then end of city limits or removal of tree-lined medians on Jefferson & MLK *We also have to deal with North College Hill and Mt. Healthy. I would bet a large sum of money Mt. Healthy will not be removing all of the on street parking along Hamilton in their business district. For signal priority, that's a toss up. *The SORTA Board hasn't shown a strong willingness to stand up to the "powers that be." For example they're spending $100,000 to study the patently ridiculous idea of moving Government Square to the RTC because 5th/3rd doesn't like people hanging out around bus stops. Hopefully, City Council will give explicit instructions to DOTE to provide signal priority for BRT. If they don't, I'm skeptical.
February 12Feb 12 Also, I don't want people to think I'm just complaining about this online. I've met privately with the CEO and Chief Planning officer of Metro about this and provided presentations on BRT to every member of Council (except recently appointed Nolan) and the Mayor's Office. The response from these presentations, however, left something to be desired.
February 12Feb 12 On 10/2/2024 at 3:05 PM, thomasbw said: These names aren't great.... Glad they didn't use any of these and instead went with - https://metrobrtproject.com/
February 12Feb 12 7 hours ago, shawk said: Lot of dramatics about signal priority, again based on a screenshot and a negativity bias toward BRT here. Members from Metro and one of the lead engineers on the project, along with a city DOTE staff member tagging on, presented at Downtown Resident's Council and spoke a bit about plans for signal priority. This was a fairly high-level conversation about how it could work and what signal priority is in general, but it's clear that signal priority is still part of the project. They also shared that an MOU between the city and Metro is currently being developed to prevent something like Cleveland turning it off. This was in response to another resident specifically asking about it, using the term BRT-creep - shoutout to him. There will be an explicit MOU based on who owns, is responsible for, and pays for each component of signal priority. They talked about integration with the streetcar, possibly emergency services, and lead pedestrian intervals as part of implementation but stressed that everything is still in the design and procurement process on that end and the city and Metro are working together on it. I forget if it's been posted here already among the negativity, but the possible BRT fleet vehicles will be present at a few engagement sessions this month. They currently have the possible buses in the area and being tested by operators, mechanics, etc. so it's fairly decent timing on the cold and winter weather this week for realistic conditions. I am admittedly fairly worried about an Indianapolis-type scenario, where the initial rollout of my service is negative or service is eventually cut due to the reliability of batteries or an unrealistic plan for charging. https://metrobrtproject.com/participate has the times/dates, the next being Fountain Square on Thursday, but also Mittenfest, Heart of Northside, and at the library later in the month. Just to reiterate - even at a place like Downtown Residents Council, there was pseudo-heckling about how the buses are actually one of the biggest causes of a lack of pedestrian safety downtown. Community councils, primarily run and attended by single family homeowners who do not take the bus, will broadly not be supportive of BRT. If you want an effective system, be prepared to counter those voices when decisions outside of Metro's hands, like parking, come to council. In the now-getting-to-be-distant past, streetcar opponents in Cincinnati were using the mere existence of BRT in other cities to try and block construction of the streetcar and light rail in general. With the streetcar operational and successful for years now these days those arguments have largely subsided. In the past there weren't many BRT advocates in Cincinnati who weren't streetcar opponents in disguise -- which also no longer true. So past attitudes seen on UO no longer apply for the most part.
February 12Feb 12 More details unveiled about Cincinnati Metro's new $339M bus rapid transit system, and a first look By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier Feb 12, 2025 Metro’s bus rapid transit system will be known simply as “Metro Rapid,” with the region’s largest transit agency hoping to know later this spring whether it received needed federal funding for the project. Metro officials pulled up one of the 60-foot, accordion-style buses to Union Terminal Wednesday, Feb. 12, to showcase what they will look like and give reporters and a steering committee helping plan the $339 million project a brief ride. The electric-powered bus made little noise compared to a gasoline-powered one as it took a short trip through the West End and back. MORE
February 14Feb 14 On 2/12/2025 at 2:58 PM, The_Cincinnati_Kid said: More details unveiled about Cincinnati Metro's new $339M bus rapid transit system, and a first look By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier Feb 12, 2025 Metro’s bus rapid transit system will be known simply as “Metro Rapid,” with the region’s largest transit agency hoping to know later this spring whether it received needed federal funding for the project. Metro officials pulled up one of the 60-foot, accordion-style buses to Union Terminal Wednesday, Feb. 12, to showcase what they will look like and give reporters and a steering committee helping plan the $339 million project a brief ride. The electric-powered bus made little noise compared to a gasoline-powered one as it took a short trip through the West End and back. MORE I don't have a subscription to read this but based on the caption, did Cincinnati purchase buses for something that they may not end up with funding for? Especially given the current climate in Washington DC, I'm not sure anyone is guaranteed Federal Funding but I'm sure I'm missing something.
February 14Feb 14 I don't have any insider knowledge, but I would guess both of the following are true- *This bus is a demonstration model on loan from the manufacturer (remember when we had a streetcar on Fountain Square?) *Any purchase contract would have a federal funding contingency Also even if we didn't get the federal funding, we could run these buses on Route 43 (I think we used to run four articulated buses on 43). You could even do some 43X routes where they made fewer stops, put in a few quick-build red pain bus lanes, and maybe even give them some signal priority and you've got a low-cost way to speed up the route by maybe 1.5 mph.
February 17Feb 17 Here's a recent video showing the disadvantages and challenges of battery-powered electric buses compared to trolleybuses which get their power from overhead lines. If we really want to commit to making these "BRT" corridors high quality public infrastructure, we should consider trolleybuses for the BRT routes. We could even use buses similar to Dayton's that can switch between overhead power and battery for off-wire operation, allowing us to install overhead wires where possible but allowing the use of battery for short segments along the route where it might be challenging to fit overhead wires in with the street's existing overhead utilities. (Go to 9:30 in the video for an example of a trolleybus route with a small battery to allow for off-wire operation.)
February 18Feb 18 $27.8m per year to move Government Square to the Riverfront Transit Center. Would cause a 23.3% cut to system-wide service and a ridership drop probably greater than that.
February 18Feb 18 The fact that they spent money on this study is crazy. Maybe they had to as proof to the corps near Gov't Square that they shouldn't do this, but it was plain as day that the RTC would add way too much time to existing routes and would cost more to maintain. Plus it takes you a 5-10 minute walk away from the heart of downtown, rather than actually being in the heart of downtown. May it makes more sense if the streetcar had more frequency and a bunch of planned routes spurring from 2nd St, but it doesn't. *Oh, and you'd need well-maintained and higher capacity elevators. At least one was out of order during BLINK and it was a 10 minute journey to find the other one hidden in the Banks development that actually had access to the RTC. Edited February 18Feb 18 by 10albersa
February 18Feb 18 25 minutes ago, thomasbw said: $27.8m per year to move Government Square to the Riverfront Transit Center. Would cause a 23.3% cut to system-wide service and a ridership drop probably greater than that. I shouldn’t have to say this especially during Trumps America but I will… Don’t believe everything you see or read. These “estimates” are very exaggerated. All I will say is the people who matter* decided they didn’t want to do it very much because they didn’t want that “kind” activity at The Banks/Riverfront and chose to sink the idea. They will now pursue government square renovations.
February 18Feb 18 22 minutes ago, 646empire said: I shouldn’t have to say this especially during Trumps America but I will… Don’t believe everything you see or read. These “estimates” are very exaggerated. All I will say is the people who matter* decided they didn’t want to do it very much because they didn’t want that “kind” activity at The Banks/Riverfront and chose to sink the idea. They will now pursue government square renovations. That's not what happened at all. The "people who matter" wanted this study to justify moving bus riders away from their corporate headquarters. The resulting study was SORTA's way of showing them it was a terrible idea.
February 18Feb 18 On 2/14/2025 at 3:23 AM, MyPhoneDead said: I don't have a subscription to read this but based on the caption, did Cincinnati purchase buses for something that they may not end up with funding for? Especially given the current climate in Washington DC, I'm not sure anyone is guaranteed Federal Funding but I'm sure I'm missing something. We got an answer on this one. There are two buses in town. One from RIDE Mobility is a demonstration model on a 30-day loan to Metro. The second one is a New Flyer bus that's destined for Alexandria, VA that stopped here on the way to its final destination.
February 18Feb 18 5 minutes ago, thomasbw said: That's not what happened at all. The "people who matter" wanted this study to justify moving bus riders away from their corporate headquarters. The resulting study was SORTA's way of showing them it was a terrible idea. Oh yes it was. I’m not going to get into an argument with you, I will say this and maybe it will be a middle ground: just as much as the corporate HQs may have wanted a move away from 5th street there was a even bigger NO from interested parties at The Banks. Edited February 18Feb 18 by 646empire
February 18Feb 18 Some more details from Wetterich- https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/02/18/metro-move-government-square-riverfront-transit.html Edited February 18Feb 18 by thomasbw
February 18Feb 18 14 minutes ago, thomasbw said: Some more details from Wetterich- https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/02/18/metro-move-government-square-riverfront-transit.html So much they aren’t telling you, it amazes me. I will say this and move on, I’ve seen with my own 2 eyes a plan that optimized downtown routes with the RTC in mind and it was fantastic. No need to break it down here since at this point it doesn’t matter. Will be interesting to see Government Square renovation plans as it’s starting to look a little rough, interested at scope and cost especially when federal funding is drying up for years to come.
February 18Feb 18 On 2/17/2025 at 12:24 PM, taestell said: Here's a recent video showing the disadvantages and challenges of battery-powered electric buses compared to trolleybuses which get their power from overhead lines. If we really want to commit to making these "BRT" corridors high quality public infrastructure, we should consider trolleybuses for the BRT routes. We could even use buses similar to Dayton's that can switch between overhead power and battery for off-wire operation, allowing us to install overhead wires where possible but allowing the use of battery for short segments along the route where it might be challenging to fit overhead wires in with the street's existing overhead utilities. (Go to 9:30 in the video for an example of a trolleybus route with a small battery to allow for off-wire operation.) It's way too late to consider trolleybuses. The entire schedule would have to restart as the environmental review is almost complete, and they'd probably have to completely redo all of that to include the analysis for the wires. Also, the construction costs would absolutely balloon past what they currently have planned requiring them to go out and get more federal grants, which at this rate will not exist in the next surface transportation budget. Finally, it would open up the project to a ton of lawsuits, again adding time and money to the project. The time to advocate for trolleybuses was before Issue 7 passed, so the costs would have been baked into the estimates that went into the sales tax ask.
February 18Feb 18 2 hours ago, 10albersa said: *Oh, and you'd need well-maintained and higher capacity elevators. At least one was out of order during BLINK and it was a 10 minute journey to find the other one hidden in the Banks development that actually had access to the RTC. Cincinnati is sure special at times. Let’s not use RTC in any meaningful way so we can avoid putting real money in maintaining and upgrading the facility especially those dang elevators. I guess let’s look forward to more elevators being out and tiles falling off the walls and broken entrances during the upcoming “Tall Stacks” themed event and the next Blink. Lol.
February 18Feb 18 1 hour ago, thomasbw said: We got an answer on this one. There are two buses in town. One from RIDE Mobility is a demonstration model on a 30-day loan to Metro. The second one is a New Flyer bus that's destined for Alexandria, VA that stopped here on the way to its final destination. Thank you for the clarification, I was like "buying a fleet of buses before funding is the ultimate definition of putting the cart before the horse."
February 18Feb 18 Moving Government Square ‘really not good for riders,’ will cost $28M a year, study says A consultant doused the idea of moving the Government Square transit center to the Riverfront Transit Center with ice cold water on Tuesday, saying it would be bad for riders and add $28 million annually to Metro’s operating costs, nearly 18% of its present budget. On top of that, Metro would have to buy 80 new buses to ensure service continues at its present frequency, which will cost it an additional $27 million to $40 million. The idea is “really not good for ridership,” Randall Farwell, senior transit specialist Benesch Transit Group, told Metro’s planning and operations committee Feb. 18. “That’s just not going to work.” Rerouting Government Square, located on Fifth Street between Walnut and Main streets, to the Riverfront Transit Center, underneath Second Street, would add 10 to 13 minutes for each roundtrip bus trip, increasing the number of vehicles needed, hours of service and costs, according to the study. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/02/18/metro-move-government-square-riverfront-transit.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 18Feb 18 EDIT: I was replying to a post that now seems to be gone? It was referencing METRO using “smart signals” and not mentioning “signal priority.” I mean, look, I’ll be the first to line up and point out the massive holes in this plan, but isn’t this just semantics? Did they ever actually say “signal priority” on this site/in their language? Isn’t “smart signals” kind of doing the work here? Seems like splitting hairs especially when we all already know that this was never going to be true “rapid transit” (or even high quality BRT). Hell, even if they promised it explicitly: SORTA Leadership/METRO/The City have never cared enough to get such technology working for Metro+ or the Streetcar. And let’s not forget that the Main St. “bus only lane” which hasn’t ever been enforced (or even fully accessible within this last year). Edited February 18Feb 18 by Gordon Bombay
February 18Feb 18 2 hours ago, 646empire said: I’ve seen with my own 2 eyes a plan that optimized downtown routes with the RTC in mind and it was fantastic. Can you tell us more? I’m very intrigued by this and always thought—if it could be done well—the RTC would be a great asset. Especially with the weather we have currently (20 degrees out at the moment with snow on the ground). At the same time, I always got the sense that this was just a move by “power players” to try and hide the issues of Government Square from the fragile white collars who don’t want to see poor people.
February 18Feb 18 3 hours ago, 10albersa said: it makes more sense if the streetcar had more frequency This is, to me, the real key in using the RTC and its biggest hindrance. Even if you get the routes optimized/routed well—those buses are now not near the main business activity at the heart of the core. An east/west a circulator bus route could rectify that along with a frequent/reliable streetcar. But it’s been six years and the streetcar still isn’t easily trackable, doesn’t have signal optimization, and the “real-time signs” haven’t shown any “real-time” updates since lord knows when. Not to mention, how many people would be late to work or miss their streetcar connection because they’re seem to love taking their time to switch drivers. 🙄
February 18Feb 18 13 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said: Can you tell us more? I’m very intrigued by this and always thought—if it could be done well—the RTC would be a great asset. Especially with the weather we have currently (20 degrees out at the moment with snow on the ground). At the same time, I always got the sense that this was just a move by “power players” to try and hide the issues of Government Square from the fragile white collars who don’t want to see poor people. The only thing I could think of would be to run service bi-directionally in the RTC and put most of the service on Central Ave and Broadway running in a giant loop around the CBD. It would be cheaper than the proposal presented today before the SORTA Board but you'd be limiting service to only the edges of Downtown and ridership would suffer.
February 18Feb 18 10 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said: Especially with the weather we have currently (20 degrees out at the moment with snow on the ground) Exactly one of my points I mentioned last year when this inquiry became public. 10 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said: At the same time, I always got the sense that this was just a move by “power players” to try and hide the issues of Government Square from the fragile white collars who don’t want to see poor people. Lots of power players going back and forth from what I know and The Banks people won the argument. I know some on here will yell to the moon this was all about logics and money I can guarantee you it was NOT and thats from sources in direct know. 1 hour ago, ColDayMan said: $28 million annually to Metro’s operating costs, nearly 18% of its present budget. On top of that, Metro would have to buy 80 new buses to ensure service continues at its present frequency, which will cost it an additional $27 million to $40 mill 28 Million A YEAR and 80 new buses! to make the RTC work?????! gosh lolllllllll you don’t have to be a fraud detective to know these numbers are a joke. 19 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said: Can you tell us more? I’m very intrigued by this and always thought—if it could be done well—the RTC would be a great asset. If I get a chance this week or next I will try to summarize some of it will also reach out to get a second peek at it.
February 18Feb 18 1 minute ago, 646empire said: If I get a chance this week or next I will try to summarize some of it That’d be awesome to hear, if possible! Thanks for your time. 1 minute ago, 646empire said: and The Banks people won the argument. …this is a bummer. Who are The Banks “people,” because those folks should really take a look around that development and realize that aside from one rowdy party street, it’s pretty bleak. Were they worried that increased foot traffic from the RTC/buses might attract too many tenants for all their empty spaces?
February 18Feb 18 37 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said: Who are The Banks “people,” because those folks should really take a look around that development and realize that aside from one rowdy party street, it’s pretty bleak. Were they worried that increased foot traffic from the RTC/buses might attract too many tenants for all their empty spaces? I can’t put folks on blast especially because some are friends of mine. But from certain City Officials, Tenants and Ownership Groups connected to The Banks they didn’t want main Metro Ops down there. The Banks is doing well at about 90% leased but they have had some recent troubles especially with teens during summer late nights, I think one was killed last year if I’m not mistaken and those invested down there lashed out at the “ghetto”(that term was used during the convo) crowd that was starting to develop. Then when the Government Square inquiry became public it was behind the scenes Dead on Arrival they weren’t going for it at all. The reason this consultant got these crazy numbers (like the absurd need of adding a giant new fleet of 80 busses!!! Lmao) is because they weren’t tasked to do a wholesale integration of the RTC and downtown routes (that was on purpose to sink it). I’ve already said more than I wanted. Hopefully we get a great Government Square renovation. Edited February 18Feb 18 by 646empire
February 18Feb 18 One issue with optimizing everything for the RTC really comes down to whether or not you can use it for bi-directional bus service. Below are the top 10 routes going to Government Square with the line widths proportional to the line's passenger counts. If you can use either entrance, you could take routes like the 4, 11, and 43 down Eggelston and get them into the RTC pretty easily (at the cost of not serving downtown), but if you can only use the west (red arrows) entrance you're running a lot of the service pretty far out of the way and past like 16 additional traffic lights. I'm not doubting there's a way to optimize service for the RTC, but that wouldn't optimize service for ridership.
February 20Feb 20 Business owners want Metro rapid transit stop booted from Clifton commercial district By: Chris Wetterich The Clifton Business Association has heartburn over the location of a potential Metro bus rapid transit stop along Ludlow Avenue, asking the transit agency to move it out of its business district entirely. If Metro agreed, the route would be located a half-mile or more from most of the northern half of Clifton, making it unlikely to pick up potential riders there. Most people are willing to walk a quarter to a half mile to a transit stop, according to the Federal Highway Administration. Some of the neighborhood’s residents and bus riders have pushed back as Metro has conducted community engagement sessions and other outreach for the $339 million project, according to transit agency officials, and it is still working on showing finalized designs. Read More: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/02/20/metro-rapid-bus-service-clifton-business-district.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_6&cx_artPos=0#cxrecs_s Edited February 20Feb 20 by thomasbw
February 20Feb 20 15 minutes ago, thomasbw said: Business owners want Metro rapid transit stop booted from Clifton commercial district By: Chris Wetterich The Clifton Business Association has heartburn over the location of a potential Metro bus rapid transit stop along Ludlow Avenue, asking the transit agency to move it out of its business district entirely. If Metro agreed, the route would be located a half-mile or more from most of the northern half of Clifton, making it unlikely to pick up potential riders there. Most people are willing to walk a quarter to a half mile to a transit stop, according to the Federal Highway Administration. Some of the neighborhood’s residents and bus riders have pushed back as Metro has conducted community engagement sessions and other outreach for the $339 million project, according to transit agency officials, and it is still working on showing finalized designs. Read More: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/02/20/metro-rapid-bus-service-clifton-business-district.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_6&cx_artPos=0#cxrecs_s Hmmmmm. Sounds vaguely familiar to me about other let’s say… relocations..
February 20Feb 20 19 minutes ago, thomasbw said: The Clifton Business Association has heartburn over the location of a potential Metro bus rapid transit stop along Ludlow Avenue, asking the transit agency to move it out of its business district entirely. It’s time we stopped listening to unelected “businesspeople.”
February 20Feb 20 Quote The Clifton Business Association has heartburn over the location of a potential Metro bus rapid transit stop along Ludlow Avenue, asking the transit agency to move it out of its business district entirely. Here we go. All the usual suspects opposing small but useful city improvements for no good reason.
February 20Feb 20 On 2/18/2025 at 11:19 AM, 646empire said: I shouldn’t have to say this especially during Trumps America but I will… Don’t believe everything you see or read. These “estimates” are very exaggerated. All I will say is the people who matter* decided they didn’t want to do it very much because they didn’t want that “kind” activity at The Banks/Riverfront and chose to sink the idea. They will now pursue government square renovations. Hmmmm….. Just going to leave this here from an article today and that also speaks to the push back on the Clifton Rapid Stop…. “One key factor identified in the department’s analysis is an increase in 911 calls from areas surrounding transit centers, such as Government Square (+71%) and Oakley Station (+70%). Moreover, the police analysts said they discovered a connection between the transit centers and the schools. Desmond said they analyzed a one-block radius around the schools and found students were hanging out, waiting for their bus and getting into fights.“ https://www.wcpo.com/news/crime/different-than-what-we-saw-last-year-cpd-says-parents-were-also-involved-in-youth-fights-last-year
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