Jump to content

Greater Cincinnati Metro (SORTA) and TANK News & Discussion

Featured Replies

I'm guessing part of it is the fact that Cranley is increasingly irrelevant and more importantly everyone realizes that gas has gone through the roof and isn't going down anytime soon. What was a question of good management a year ago is now more a question of paying more for gas like the rest of us.

  • Replies 2k
  • Views 146.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Most Popular Posts

  • The Main Street bus lane is finally getting some red paint.  

  • DEPACincy
    DEPACincy

    Ok, I couldn't resist. Her piece if FULL of misinformation and lies. Here are some examples:     So? If you don't live in Cincinnati why would you get to vote on representation at Cit

  • Early in the pandemic, the city should have "temporarily" made the bus lane in effect 24/7, citing the reduced demand for on-street parking. It would have worked out so well that there would be basica

Posted Images

So how long is it until that irrelevant fool is replaced?

^Rumors are that he is going to end up leaving this position to run for something higher.

And hopefully, will lose.

He does that often.

And hopefully, will lose.

 

Hopefully, we wouldn't want to see him defeat Chabot!!

One letter-to-editor asked why smaller buses aren't use or bought. I agree, most buses seem to be 2/3 empty except maybe during rush hour.  I would like to see them go the hybrid route.

Hybrids are far more expensive. Biodiesel is currently being used by Metro if I'm not mistaken (I defer to Randy on the specifics), and that is doing a lot right there.

 

I am putting my bets on all electric buses in the future, sans those that actually run along the interstate.

Metro uses 3.6 million gallons of fuel each year including soy biodiesel.

 

In all reality, going hybrid is probably a bad long-term investment.  It looks like hybrids are a band-aid fix to a much larger wound.  Hydrogen seems to be the fuel of the future, but even not...it's too early in the game to start replacing your entire fleet with something like hybrids.

 

The biodiesel is a solid start and much more financially doable.  Metro is trying to keep upfront costs low, and long-term operating costs lower...therefore the route of replacing their current fleet with more of the same and the continued use of biodiesel seems to make most cents.

One letter-to-editor asked why smaller buses aren't use or bought. I agree, most buses seem to be 2/3 empty except maybe during rush hour.  I would like to see them go the hybrid route.

 

you still have exactly the same labor costs, additionally you have to buy new buses, the cost savings probably aren't what people would think.

Metro wins fare hike

January 17, 2008 | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER

 

Cincinnati City Council on Wednesday approved a 50-cent fare hike for Metro, which will allow the bus service to buy new vehicles and cover rising fuel costs.  The new fare will be effective Feb. 3, Metro said in a news release, rising to $1.50 within Cincinnati city limits and $2 within Hamilton County. "Fare Deal" prices for senior and disabled citizens, and children under 5, will be 75 cents within the city and $1 within the county.

 

Read full article here:

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/01/14/daily52.html

If anyone knows how the voting breakdown went please share.

at the finance sub committee it was everyone but monzel yes (monzel is not on that committe), cranley no

Surprised?

I was in Japan in November for a couple of weeks and all the buses I rode in shut off the engines if stopped at a stoplight or heavy traffic. Evidentally some cities are getting Diesel hybrids soon this would be great if Cincinnati would get something similar.

the extra capital cost for a new hybrid is about 150k.  Lifetime fuel savings are around 100k based on a $3 average cost of diesel for 12 years, but when you factor in time value of money issues, it is less of a deal

  • 1 month later...

Mallory: Free Metro rides to link teens, Kings Island jobs

Tuesday, February 19, 2008 - 2:07 PM EST

 

Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory and the Everybody Rides Metro Foundation on Tuesday announced a summer 2008 program that will provide free bus rides to transport low-income teens to jobs at Kings Island theme park.  The foundation secured $1 million in funding to provide the rides, which will be handled through the Hamilton County Job and Family Services' "On the Move" transit program, according to a news release from Metro.

 

Read full article here:

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/02/18/daily17.html

^ This is either misguided do-goodery or corporate welfare for Kings Island.

 

Either way, it is a waste of money!

  • 2 months later...

This is a great program to introduce potentially new riders to Metro and TANK.  It is also a good selling tool for both universities in this climate of skyrocketing gas prices.  Overall just a fantastic program...well done.

 

UC, NKU students' free bus ride program expanded

May 9, 2008 | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER

 

A reciprocal agreement between the Metro and TANK bus systems will allow University of Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky University students to ride the buses for free.  Metro had a program for UC students, funded by the university and UC student government. TANK had a similar program for NKU students. Under the agreement, students will be able to ride on either system by showing their university photo ID.

 

Read full article here:

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/05/05/daily53.html

I couldn't be happier about this expansion of the program.  Of course I'm speaking as a UC student, given.  It was only a month ago that I headed to NKY for coffee, and it was such a hassle having to pay fare over there, given the student discount by one driver, rejected by another.  We didn't have enough change on us sans discount, so we had to walk from 7th Street in Covington to Government Square. 

 

I'm glad I don't have to do THAT again!

^ Exactly why I've always argued for a unified transit system, or at least a high level of cooperation between the two we have now.  People will only ride transit if it is cheap and easy to do so.  If it becomes a pain in the rear, people will rapidly avoid it by walking or driving.

Metro's shuttles threatened by federal rules change

BY DAN MONK | May 20, 2008

 

New federal rules governing charter-bus service could bring an end to Metro's shuttle runs to and from Cincinnati Bengals games. But Cincinnati's public transit agency is trying to garner local support for a special exemption that could keep its Riverfest and Tall Stacks shuttles intact.

 

"The Federal Transit Administration has enacted new charter regulations that will severely limit Metro's ability to provide 'special' services like the Bengal's Express and Riverfest," Metro CEO Marilyn Shazor told board members in a recent e-mail. "Penalties for noncompliance include fines and loss of federal funding."  Starting May 1, Metro is not allowed to provide special-events shuttle service unless it first allows charter bus operators to bid on the right to offer the service.

 

Read full article here:

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/05/19/daily25.html

  • 2 weeks later...

'Use school buses'

County Commission President has plan to fight $4 gas

 

School and local authorities will meet next week to hear a proposal for using school buses to expand transit service during the summer.  Hamilton County Commission President Todd Portune, a longtime public-transit advocate, proposed the idea and called the meeting for 9 a.m. Monday at the Ohio-Kentucky-Indiana Regional Council of Governments, 720 E. Pete Rose Way, downtown.

 

Portune said in a statement Tuesday that using idle school buses and bus drivers would make it possible to offer relief to workers struggling to pay $4 a gallon for gas. In addition, he said, it would get more cars off the road, reducing air pollution and helping the area meet federal clean-air standards.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080611/NEWS01/806110304/1077/COL02

Yeah, that's a winner. And people wonder why buses have a stigma. As long as it's short bus, I'm there.  :roll:

Portune said in a statement Tuesday that using idle school buses and bus drivers would make it possible to offer relief to workers struggling to pay $4 a gallon for gas. In addition, he said, it would get more cars off the road, reducing air pollution and helping the area meet federal clean-air standards.

 

So then what happens after summer?  People will be back to where they were before.  And how will the routes be marked?  Who will be responsible for the maintenance of these school buses?

 

After Portune's plan to add rubber-wheeled trolleys to downtown last year as a way to disrupt the streetcar plan, I have to wonder if there is a hidden agenda to this.  Or is he seriously just trying to come up with a creative solution?

 

I also wish they had not mentioned the 2002 Metro Moves plan in this article.  I hope people don't associate this plan with light rail, especially if this school bus plan fails.

I'd be only with the school bus "plan" failing.  What needs to happen is a quick regional amends that allows for a regional system of bus transit.  Not next year.  Not two years from now.  Now.

Yeah, that's a winner. And people wonder why buses have a stigma. As long as it's short bus, I'm there.  :roll:

 

That is a horrible plan.

Hamilton County voters soundly rejected sales taxes for transit in 1971, 1979, 1980 and 2002.

 

 

Huh,I knew about 2002, but not about the other years prior to that.

So if the county took over service, I guess I can expect to see a decrease in quality?

The county already has major control of service....

The county already has major control of service....

 

...indeed - which is crazy.  From another thread:

 

Wait a minute - the city gives SORTA $38MM, the county gives SORTA $550K, and yet the county appoints a majority of the board?  I have GOT to be reading that wrong...

 

Just checked SORTA's funding breakdown from their website, and it shows:

 

2004

Federal* $11.2 million

State 1.1 million

Local** 37.3 million

Local operating*** 22.1 million

Other local (contract service) 1.7 million

Deferral of capital projects .1 million

GRAND TOTAL $73.5 million

* Federal operating assistance was eliminated in 1999. We can now use formula funds to support our preventative maintenance expenses.

** About half of Metro's &73.5 million operating budget comes from 3/10 of 1% of the earnings tax collected by the City of Cincinnati. The earnings tax is paid by everyone who works or lives in the city.

*** Local operating includes fares, Cincinnati Public Schools contract, and misc. income

 

How on earth can this have happened?  And where does Heimlich get off complaining about council wanting to audit something they give thirty eight MILLION dollars to?  That ain't a funny position, Phil, that's their fiscal responsibility.  I'm shocked that it doesn't already happen annually.

 

And how can they even open their mouths when they give only 1% of the amount the city gives?  How on earth does that happen?  This is crazy - I must be missing something here.

 

Metro buses run under the Southern Ohio Regional Transit Agency, or SORTA. Five of its board members represent Hamilton County; four represent Cincinnati. Outlying counties are not included, even though Metro operates bus routes under contract with them.

Cincinnati gives metro:  $111.44 per resident

the Balance of the County gives metro: $1.07 per resident

 

Actually this proposal would shift most of the control to Cincinnati.  That is if the funding breakdown were to remain the same.  The program's goal is to create a truly region board that incentives regional cooperation and involvement (aka funding).  The way it works now is that Cincinnati pays the lion's share and gets a less than majority representation on the board.

 

The new breakdown would give Hamilton, Butler, Warren, and Clermont Counties an automatic spot on the board.  Cincinnati would also get their own appointment in addition to the Hamilton County appointment.  After that the additional members would be determined by the amount of funding that each particular municipality provides...with the majority contributor being able to appoint as many members up to a maximum of 19 total members (no less than 11) in order to attain a majority presence.

 

So if each county has their 1 member and Cincinnati has its 1 member that will total 5 of the minimum 11 members on the board.  Since Cincinnati is essentially the only contributor right now (along with Hamilton County) then they would be able to appoint the additional 6 members...giving Cincinnati 7 out of the 11 members on the board.

Fantastic info, Randy - don't know if that's new data or if I just missed it, but that would introduce some actual sanity into the board's structure.  I don't know that 11 people is an optimal size for a board, and I'm certain that 19 would be a horrible idea, but still, it would be better than having the $500K contributor in the majority and the $38MM contributor in the minority...that's just insane!

I don't think counties are the logical building blocks for a regional transit system, which is inherently urban.

 

To me, it seems more logical for Cincinnati to ally with other cities that have an interest in better public transportation. Wyoming and Mariemont both supported MetroMoves in 2002 by higher percentages than Cincinnati did. So did Woodlawn and Lincoln Heights. Blue Ash comes to mind. Norwood should be in the mix too.

 

The payoff for these cities, which already have routes to downtown, would come in the form of suburb-to-suburb routes and perhaps more frequency and hours of service for their citizens. Over time, this could morph into a complete regional network. Right now, I don't see the residents of northern Warren and eastern Clermont Counties jumping on the protransit bandwagon.

John is probably right, but how would the townships get involved since outside of the inner-ring 'burbs everything else is township?

I don't think counties are the logical building blocks for a regional transit system, which is inherently urban.

 

To me, it seems more logical for Cincinnati to ally with other cities that have an interest in better public transportation. Wyoming and Mariemont both supported MetroMoves in 2002 by higher percentages than Cincinnati did. So did Woodlawn and Lincoln Heights. Blue Ash comes to mind. Norwood should be in the mix too.

 

The payoff for these cities, which already have routes to downtown, would come in the form of suburb-to-suburb routes and perhaps more frequency and hours of service for their citizens. Over time, this could morph into a complete regional network. Right now, I don't see the residents of northern Warren and eastern Clermont Counties jumping on the protransit bandwagon.

 

I'm no expert, but I totally agree with this.  Focus on making transit optimal within the urban areas and let the chips fall where they may for the suburbs.  This goes for buses and streetcars now and hopefully light rail in the future.  Efficient and appealing mass transit is crucial to the growth of urban areas, whereas it seems to be an afterthought for suburbs. 

I would like to advise that a regional bus system with better organization and funding sources would help this region out very much.  We shouldn't turn our noses up at something like this just because it isn't the streetcar and it isn't light rail.  As multiple areas in the region have a reasonable stake in a regional system, I believe that there will be a better likelihood that more cities/counties/townships will see the benefits of something like light rail.  Without it, I still don't see outlying areas of the region buying into light rail...even now.

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

City could replace Metro

Will work with county, but wants more say because it pays

 

Cincinnati has the legal right to walk away from its 35-year-old transit deal with Hamilton County, according to a preliminary report from city officials.  Nonetheless, a negotiated deal to create a multi-county agency with control based on financial contributions remains the best path to resolving the city's transit complaints, said City Councilmember John Cranley.

 

The report from City Manager Milton Dohoney says Cincinnati cannot force Hamilton County to replace the Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority, which runs Metro bus service. It also said state law "does not prohibit the city from creating an alternate transit system if it is operated as a department or agency of the city of Cincinnati."

 

Cranley said he is confident that Hamilton County commissioners John Pepper and Todd Portune are willing to work out a new structure.  The city's position is that transit governance must be truly regional, and that voting control be tied to financial contributions. Metro bus service is funded largely with an annual subsidy - now $43 million a year - from Cincinnati's payroll tax funds. Hamilton County contributes only minor amounts to the transit authority, which runs the Metro bus service.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080801/NEWS01/808010412/1168/NEWS

This seems like a step in the right direction.  It's about time the city gets serious about Metro and the fact that they fund it almost exclusively.

  • 2 weeks later...

Metro Tests 'Bendable' Bus For Busy Routes

Buses Hold 50 Percent More Passengers

 

You might see some strange buses on Hamilton County roads Thursday.  Metro is testing a New Flyer articulated bus on several commuter and city routes to determine if the bus design can operate efficiently in Cincinnati.  The bus is longer than a typical bus and has a bendable section just behind the midway point of the frame.

 

Read full article here:

http://www.wlwt.com/news/17119912/detail.html?rss=cin&psp=news

^I rode one of these in Seattle, and its actually pretty cool.  Especially for routes such as the 17 (the turn from McMillan onto W. Clifton is always a nightmare)

They also have them all over San Fran. Very nice!

Create an account or sign in to comment

Recently Browsing 0

  • No registered users viewing this page.