really? The R-word. Can't we all elevate the dialog here a bit.

Coming in a bit late on this....

 

Maybe service is so bad because ridership is very poor?  I know there's a chicken and egg problem, but being the most affluent parts of the city (excepting Madisonville), there seems to be an even bigger aversion to bus riding than usual.  The retarded route numbering (11 Erie-Hyde Park vs. 11 Madison Road-Oakley) doesn't help either.

 

That's all the more reason for Metro*Plus here, people on this route have options, and if you are going to convince them that riding the bus is a good idea, make it competitive with the car and sell them on the advantages of transit.

Maybe service is so bad because ridership is very poor?  I know there's a chicken and egg problem, but being the most affluent parts of the city (excepting Madisonville), there seems to be an even bigger aversion to bus riding than usual.  The retarded route numbering (11 Erie-Hyde Park vs. 11 Madison Road-Oakley) doesn't help either. 

yeah, there's 4 17s out there - used to be more. It confuses people. There's no shortage of numbers.

The problem is the ultimate destinations of the bus routes often don't make any sense.  "#17 Seven Hills"?  That confuses the hell out of people. 

A strong editorial in the Cincy Enquirer in favor of greater investment in all forms of public transportation:

 

EDITORIAL: Get the region onboard new public transit plan

FILED UNDER - Opinion | 11:31 PM, Feb. 1, 2014  | 

 

With the debate over the Cincinnati streetcar resolved, it’s time to improve public transportation for the entire region.

 

Our underfunded, bus-only system largely serves those who have no other options for getting around. Expanding the options to include more riders would have profound benefits for individuals, businesses and the long-term growth prospects of the region as a whole:

 

READ MORE AT:

http://news.cincinnati.com/interactive/article/20140202/EDIT/302020001

I can't believe I saw such a good editorial for transit in that paper wow,  :clap:

Yeah, I'm sure it was ghost-written. 

Yeah that was a good one.  I forgot about the upcoming transit summit, hope that goes well and starts sparking more interest.

Wow.  Great editorial.  We need A LOT more of that type of thinking in this town.

The key to success is getting politicians from all backgrounds not just supportive of it, but advocates for it. I can't imagine Smitherman would ever support it, but if we could get Murray and Winburn and maybe a Republican commissioner to support a proposal and be a vocal advocate, a transit tax could pass. I would be much more supportive of an opt-in style initiative for each individual community rather than a countywide tax. This would allow communities outside of Hamilton County to join as well. Though I'm not sure how likely that is.

I would be much more supportive of an opt-in style initiative for each individual community rather than a countywide tax. This would allow communities outside of Hamilton County to join as well. Though I'm not sure how likely that is.

 

^ This is defiintely the way to do it. Cities and towns are the logical building blocks for better public transit. I'd be willing to bet that that all or most of the valley communities along I-75 would vote for light rail today. If the city or town approves it, they get service.

^^^ +1

 

With the political climate of Hamilton County, this is definitely the way to do it.

But what if you have some communities like say Evendale and Woodlawn being sticks in the mud while Glendale, Springdale, Sharonville, and Fairfield get on board?  The communities who don't opt in can block others beyond them.  Or would it be more like "ok you're not part of this plan, so even though we need to upgrade the transit infrastructure through your town to serve these others, you don't get any stations"?

Something that is not well-known: Lockland, Wyoming and Lincoln Heights all voted for MetroMoves at a higher percentage than the City of Cincinnati did. So did Mariemont.

 

I think we can form a chain of supporting communities on some of these corridors.

Is there a map of how each precinct voted? It would be pretty cool to have a visual representation of which communities supported MetroMoves and where our biggest allies would be.

But what if you have some communities like say Evendale and Woodlawn being sticks in the mud while Glendale, Springdale, Sharonville, and Fairfield get on board?  The communities who don't opt in can block others beyond them.  Or would it be more like "ok you're not part of this plan, so even though we need to upgrade the transit infrastructure through your town to serve these others, you don't get any stations"?

 

You build through those communities, but with no stops.  Those that support transit get rewarded, and those that don't won't get service.

The part I don't like about the opt-in/out approach is that those communities along a line who opt out are still free riders. They benefit from less congestion and can still go to park & ride stations in neighboring communities. Sure, the system gets some value capture from the riders/users, but not the same level as is the whole community had opted in.

 

There's no perfect solution

The data is all there to do that - precinct level election results are here - just scroll down and under General Elections, choose November 2002 and download it into Excel:

http://boe.hamilton-co.org/elections/election-results.aspx

 

...and you can see precinct-level maps here - go to the Map Layers folder and chose Voting Districts:

http://cagisonline.hamilton-co.org/cagisonline/index.html

 

I've never monkeyed with mapping stuff, though...

But what if you have some communities like say Evendale and Woodlawn being sticks in the mud while Glendale, Springdale, Sharonville, and Fairfield get on board?  The communities who don't opt in can block others beyond them.  Or would it be more like "ok you're not part of this plan, so even though we need to upgrade the transit infrastructure through your town to serve these others, you don't get any stations"?

 

I personally spoke with elected officials Woodlawn and Evendale last fall in a meeting with the Connecting Active Communities Coalition regarding increasing bicycle and transit access in the area.  Woodlawn is all for increasing transit, they're just not sure how to go about doing it and not sure how to fund it.  Evendale, however, is a real problem.  I spoke with them about adding Metro*Plus service up Reading and they said they didn't want any buses in the city.  I told them we're planning on taking the route up to Sharonville anyway, so it'll be coming through Evendale regardless.  They scoffed and got all testy saying they didn't even want a bus driving through.  It got a little heated and I reminded them that they're public roads and it's not up to their discretion who come through.  Ridiculous.

 

That said, the answer is yes.  Build a line through the town and have no stations or stops.The neighboring community who supports the station might want to reap the benefits of more commuters changing modes there...or they might have to regulate parking and only offer free or discounted parking to local residents.  That's up to them.

Something that is not well-known: Lockland, Wyoming and Lincoln Heights all voted for MetroMoves at a higher percentage than the City of Cincinnati did. So did Mariemont.

 

I think we can form a chain of supporting communities on some of these corridors.

 

John do you mean this literally? In other words, is it possible/feasible to arrange financial support within sub-county jurisdiction? A special taxing district could do that in theory... just wondered about your thoughts...

But what if you have some communities like say Evendale and Woodlawn being sticks in the mud while Glendale, Springdale, Sharonville, and Fairfield get on board?  The communities who don't opt in can block others beyond them.  Or would it be more like "ok you're not part of this plan, so even though we need to upgrade the transit infrastructure through your town to serve these others, you don't get any stations"?

 

I personally spoke with elected officials Woodlawn and Evendale last fall in a meeting with the Connecting Active Communities Coalition regarding increasing bicycle and transit access in the area.  Woodlawn is all for increasing transit, they're just not sure how to go about doing it and not sure how to fund it.  Evendale, however, is a real problem.  I spoke with them about adding Metro*Plus service up Reading and they said they didn't want any buses in the city.  I told them we're planning on taking the route up to Sharonville anyway, so it'll be coming through Evendale regardless.  They scoffed and got all testy saying they didn't even want a bus driving through.  It got a little heated and I reminded them that they're public roads and it's not up to their discretion who come through.  Ridiculous.

 

That said, the answer is yes.  Build a line through the town and have no stations or stops.The neighboring community who supports the station might want to reap the benefits of more commuters changing modes there...or they might have to regulate parking and only offer free or discounted parking to local residents.  That's up to them.

 

Funny because there's barely any residential streets in Evendale that are within walking distance of Reading Road to begin with.  It's all commercial and industrial.  Still, that's exactly the kind of problem that's a...problem.  I can very easily imagine a similar situation with Elmwood Place being all for expanded transit service along with Cincinnati via the Carthage and Hartwell neighborhoods, while St. Bernard is completely opposed to anything (they wouldn't even work with Cincinnati on the Mitchell Avenue bike lanes).  In the same vein, I could even see support for commuter rail on the former CL&N from places like Silverton and even Blue Ash get squashed by a stubborn Deer Park. 

I think so. It's the way Dallas is building regional rail. Same with Norfolk, which voted for it while Virginia Beach voted it down - now Virginia Beach is back in discussions again. I believe the extension of LRT from Phoenix and Tempe to Mesa is being handled this way too.

 

A lot fo this has to do with township/county government in this part of the country. Basically, townships don't want a lot of services, and that 's fine. But cities, towns and some villages do.

 

In order to have a regional transit authority in Ohio, you have to have at least two jurisdictions. So today we have Hamilton County and the City of Cincinnati as the sponsors of SORTA.

 

But the City of Cincinati could also team up with St. Bernard, Elmwood Place, Woodawn, Lincoln Heights, Wyomig and Glendale to build LRT in the I-75 corridor. Norwood, Cincinnati, Silverton,  and Blue Ash could do the same in the I-71 Corridor. Mariemont, Faifax, Milford and Cincinnati coud do the same along the Wasson Line.

 

The possibilities are interesting.

Bus service on Reading Rd. ends in Reading.  There is no bus that continues north to Evendale or Sharonville.  The #78, thankfully, does travel the length of Springfield pike to Northland Blvd., then it turns to Tri-County Mall.  It's a disgrace that the #43 does not continue on 42 AND Cincinnati-Dayton into Butler/Warren counties, or that the #78 doesn't continue up Rt. 4 to Hamilton.  We have HUGE employers all up around the Hamilton/Butler County borders that have absolutely zero bus service, other than the obscure #67, which only runs one bus per day.  Nobody's even seen the #67, it's Metro's chupacabra. 

 

Something that is not well-known: Lockland, Wyoming and Lincoln Heights all voted for MetroMoves at a higher percentage than the City of Cincinnati did. So did Mariemont.

 

Maybe there's a correlation between high voter approval and where the light rail lines were projected to run?  I can see Cincinnati's overall approval rate being dragged down significantly by Mt. Washington, Mt. Lookout, Bond Hill, Roselawn, and especially Price Hill and Westwood, which were not going to get any light rail.  Same with suburbs like Amberly, Indian Hill, Terrace Park, Covedale, Bridgetown, and Colerain. 

Bus service on Reading Rd. ends in Reading.  There is no bus that continues north to Evendale or Sharonville.  The #78, thankfully, does travel the length of Springfield pike to Northland Blvd., then it turns to Tri-County Mall.  It's a disgrace that the #43 does not continue on 42 AND Cincinnati-Dayton into Butler/Warren counties, or that the #78 doesn't continue up Rt. 4 to Hamilton.  We have HUGE employers all up around the Hamilton/Butler County borders that have absolutely zero bus service, other than the obscure #67, which only runs one bus per day.  Nobody's even seen the #67, it's Metro's chupacabra. 

 

 

I am 100% confident that the 43 ends where it does entirely because Metro got sick of dealing with Evendale.  I almost felt compelled to throw a punch during my lopsided conversations with them.  That said, Metro's Long Range Transit Plan has Metro*Plus service extending up Reading to 275 and a transit center South of Glendale-Milford near the Formica/Dan Beard Council/Valley Thrift area.  So...something's gotta give on that corridor.

Bus service on Reading Rd. ends in Reading.  There is no bus that continues north to Evendale or Sharonville.  The #78, thankfully, does travel the length of Springfield pike to Northland Blvd., then it turns to Tri-County Mall.  It's a disgrace that the #43 does not continue on 42 AND Cincinnati-Dayton into Butler/Warren counties, or that the #78 doesn't continue up Rt. 4 to Hamilton.  We have HUGE employers all up around the Hamilton/Butler County borders that have absolutely zero bus service, other than the obscure #67, which only runs one bus per day.  Nobody's even seen the #67, it's Metro's chupacabra. 

 

 

Yeah, what's the deal with the #67? I remember wanting to take it once because it went from downtown to a testing center in Blue Ash that I had to go to 7 times for the architecture registration exam. The route worked perfectly, but that timetable was a head-scratcher. Needless to say, I had no choice but to drive.

 

The Uptown Transit District is really coming along. 

 

Vine Street Station

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

More pics of the other station coming soon

Wish the city would collaborate with Metro to include some traffic calming in that plan. It's kind of weird to have a transit hub station in such a pedestrian-hostile environment.

 

Not to mention the immediate surroundings are pretty suburb-like, like CVS and University Plaza.

Wish the city would collaborate with Metro to include some traffic calming in that plan. It's kind of weird to have a transit hub station in such a pedestrian-hostile environment.

 

Not to mention the immediate surroundings are pretty suburb-like, like CVS and University Plaza.

 

That's just one of four parts of the uptown transit hub. The others are in the 'old town' section of mcmillan, at jefferson and cory? and near Childrens.

Wish the city would collaborate with Metro to include some traffic calming in that plan. It's kind of weird to have a transit hub station in such a pedestrian-hostile environment.

 

Not to mention the immediate surroundings are pretty suburb-like, like CVS and University Plaza.

 

 

I agree but I think it's limited to that single bus hub.  The others are in better locations.  That said this will much better define the bus stops in that area.  I think the #78 northbound stop is currently on that traffic island.  I hate riding the bus to new areas when you have no idea where, precisely, the stops are.  You never know if you're forcing the driver to slam on the brakes.

 

 

 

Here are the rest of the stations:

 

Hughes Center Station

 

 

 

 

 

 

Children's Hospital Station

 

 

 

 

University Hospital Station

 

 

 

 

University Station

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm really liking the way these are turning out. They look infinitely better than the previous stops. My only concern is that some of the granite pavers are incredibly poorly installed. Corners sticking up, large gaps, very obviously already settling in weird ways. I'm hoping in those places it's not final .In general the most complete parts though look awesome. I hope they do this type of work elsewhere in the city. It makes a huge perceptional difference for the transit in this city when there are such high quality stops.

Wish the city would collaborate with Metro to include some traffic calming in that plan. It's kind of weird to have a transit hub station in such a pedestrian-hostile environment.

 

Not to mention the immediate surroundings are pretty suburb-like, like CVS and University Plaza.

 

They actually did work with the city quite a bit.  They're redoing quite a few crosswalks and pedestrian crossing signals.  They completely rebuilt the intersection of Vine/Jefferson and Calhoun/Taft.  (They put in all new stoplights at the intersection as well)

 

While I agree that the Vine and McMillan intersection is generally ugly, this project VASTLY improved the look of the area.  I'm also actually a big fan of that CVS.  For a cheap box, they did a great job positioning it on the site and making it as accessible as possible.  That walkway along the North side of the building is really convenient.  I also know that the Uptown Consortium has big plans for the vacant hillside just West of the intersection. 

 

University Plaza is a different story.  It still looks like we'll be getting a crappy big box Kroger randomly situated at the back of the site with a stand alone Walgreens surrounded by a drive-thru.  Terrible.  Hopefully the delay caused by Rent-a-Center will take so long that Kroger decides to go through another redesign.

I'm really liking the way these are turning out. They look infinitely better than the previous stops. My only concern is that some of the granite pavers are incredibly poorly installed. Corners sticking up, large gaps, very obviously already settling in weird ways. I'm hoping in those places it's not final .In general the most complete parts though look awesome. I hope they do this type of work elsewhere in the city. It makes a huge perceptional difference for the transit in this city when there are such high quality stops.

 

I agree.  I'm holding my breath on the informational signage.  I think it's going to be fantastic. 

 

The granite definitely looks rough on the Vine Street Station, but they installed it all right before the cold snaps and it put them way behind schedule.  I know they were out resetting some of them today.  University Station looks great though.

I kind of figured that a lot of the bad granite work would have to be re set because of the timing of its installation. Regardless, it all is looking really great. It gives it a sense of permanence that wasn't ever there before.

Before the CVS there was a circular King Quick in that location.  It was really funny looking. 

Perhaps I missed the news, but it appears - at least in the neighborhoods I've seen - that Metro is no longer putting outside ads in their bus shelters, even the old ones.  It seems they've moved to uniform Metro-only posters instead.  Is this a thing?

Yeah, the city passed an ordinance banning them about a year ago.  I'm not sure why.

Yeah, the city passed an ordinance banning them about a year ago.  I'm not sure why.

 

I believe they were trying to get rid of the hideous concrete benches (with shabby ads) that were all over the city.

Yeah, the city passed an ordinance banning them about a year ago.  I'm not sure why.

 

I believe they were trying to get rid of the hideous concrete benches (with shabby ads) that were all over the city.

 

Then why not just ban concrete benches from public rights of way?

Then why not just ban concrete benches from public rights of way?

 

I'd guess that'd it be easier to cut off the financial motivation to have them around and avoid 1st Amendment/legal arguments, but that is totally a guess.

Advertising in the public right-of-way was banned.

These are looking great. Will heating units be installed as well?

Metro's new fare vending machine was unveiled at Government Square today.  There will be two more in the Uptown Transit District. 

 

 

For reference on location:

^ Better late than never!

 

Thanks for the pics.

^Wouldn't happen to a streetcar.