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Greater Cincinnati Metro (SORTA) and TANK News & Discussion

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I've heard from multiple sources that if you put your Metro stored value card in a TANK bus, it will work. I don't find myself riding transit in KY that often, so I haven't had the ability to confirm.

Next chance I get I'll confirm

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I successfully used a stored value card from Metro on the TANK operated Southbank Shuttle to get back to Cincinnati from Covington this Sunday. The machine deducted the proper $1 fare. Worked like a charm!

“All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.”
-Friedrich Nietzsche

Nice!  Thanks for info.  Looks like I need to pick one of those up.

I successfully used a stored value card from Metro on the TANK operated Southbank Shuttle to get back to Cincinnati from Covington this Sunday. The machine deducted the proper $1 fare. Worked like a charm!

 

Awesome, I'd previously been carrying change with me for such transfers no need to now :)

  • 4 weeks later...

Oy. I'm getting ready to write a News Release on Metro's new board appointees. Get ready for that bomb to drop next week.

So, i am assuming the most anti-rail transit people possible were picked to lead SORTA's board?

 

Cranley did vow revenge...

Oy. I'm getting ready to write a News Release on Metro's new board appointees. Get ready for that bomb to drop next week.

 

What's the scoop?

 

I'm predicting Chris Finney, Steve Chabot, and Shannon Jones were appointed.

 

Do I win?

Oy. I'm getting ready to write a News Release on Metro's new board appointees. Get ready for that bomb to drop next week.

 

What's the scoop?

 

 

The current two vacancies on the SORTA Board were both Hamilton County Appointees

Oy. I'm getting ready to write a News Release on Metro's new board appointees. Get ready for that bomb to drop next week.

 

What's the scoop?

 

 

The current two vacancies on the SORTA Board were both Hamilton County Appointees

 

Thanks Brad, I was just coming on here to say that.  Can't disclose names or organizations yet though. 

Oy. I'm getting ready to write a News Release on Metro's new board appointees. Get ready for that bomb to drop next week.

 

What's the scoop?

 

 

The current two vacancies on the SORTA Board were both Hamilton County Appointees

 

Thanks Brad, I was just coming on here to say that.  Can't disclose names or organizations yet though.

 

Unless the new appointments are to replace these guys (in which I'll eat crow) I think according to this: http://www.bocc2.hamilton-co.org/sirepub/cache/2/4v0jxaorqllqm5y5pvoftphx/18455610142014034144417.PDF and this: http://www.hamiltoncountyohio.gov/boards_commissions/docs/SORTA.asp

 

The two new guys are:

 

Oy. I'm getting ready to write a News Release on Metro's new board appointees. Get ready for that bomb to drop next week.

 

What's the scoop?

 

 

The current two vacancies on the SORTA Board were both Hamilton County Appointees

 

Thanks Brad, I was just coming on here to say that.  Can't disclose names or organizations yet though.

 

Unless the new appointments are to replace these guys (in which I'll eat crow) I think according to this: http://www.bocc2.hamilton-co.org/sirepub/cache/2/4v0jxaorqllqm5y5pvoftphx/18455610142014034144417.PDF and this: http://www.hamiltoncountyohio.gov/boards_commissions/docs/SORTA.asp

 

The two new guys are:

 

 

Well shoot!  I didn't know they were posted already.  My boss is acting like its some secret because the press release hasn't been issued yet.

 

In that case, Daniel St Charles is a contract web developer for various places around town, but he's also a board member for COAST and the Blue Chip Republicans.

Oy. I'm getting ready to write a News Release on Metro's new board appointees. Get ready for that bomb to drop next week.

 

What's the scoop?

 

 

The current two vacancies on the SORTA Board were both Hamilton County Appointees

 

Thanks Brad, I was just coming on here to say that.  Can't disclose names or organizations yet though.

 

Unless the new appointments are to replace these guys (in which I'll eat crow) I think according to this: http://www.bocc2.hamilton-co.org/sirepub/cache/2/4v0jxaorqllqm5y5pvoftphx/18455610142014034144417.PDF and this: http://www.hamiltoncountyohio.gov/boards_commissions/docs/SORTA.asp

 

The two new guys are:

 

 

Sounds like a guy with the best interests of SORTA's services in mind.

Wow. Who makes the selections for the county? Those may be the worst picks possible.

Wow. Who makes the selections for the county? Those may be the worst picks possible.

 

The County Commissioners appoint folks to the board. You can file these appointments under "Friends of Chris" with their heavy COAST / Cincinnati Tea Party leanings.

 

Remember, though, that HamCo only gets 3 of 13 members.  City appoints 7 then one each from Warren, Butler and Clermont counties. Let us also not forget that only one of those entities provides operating dollars to SORTA.

I am sorry but I am a bit confused.

 

Here is SORTA's mission statement:

 

"The Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority (SORTA) is a tax-supported, independent political subdivision of the State of Ohio and is a government entity. SORTA operates Metro fixed-route bus service and Access paratransit service for people whose disabilities prevent their riding Metro buses.

 

SORTA is governed by a 13-member volunteer citizens’ board of trustees"

 

If you don't have experience or much experience with public transit, which I am sure is true of Mr. Painter, then what help will he have being on the board?

Members Leaving

 

Suzanne Burke: Burke, a Wyoming, Ohio, resident, is currently Chief Executive Officer of Council on Aging of Southwestern Ohio, a role held since 2005. Previously, she worked for Hamilton County for 17 years serving as the Acting Hamilton County Administrator, Director of the Department of Job & Family Services, and Director of Administrative Services (County Budget Director) among other positions.

 

Todd Cooper: a partner at the law firm Squire Sanders (www.squiresanders.com), focuses his practice on tax matters related to public finance, primarily the federal taxation aspects of municipal bonds. He also serves as bond and underwriter’s counsel on public finance transactions. He received his JD and MBA from the University of Notre Dame and a Bachelor of Arts degree from Amherst College. Cooper currently resides in Anderson.

 

Members Joining

 

Jack Painter: Indian Hill resident, president of a local Tea Party group. Probably hasn't ridden a bus for four decades. AMERICA.

 

Daniel St. Charles: No one knows who he is. Apparently he makes websites and is on the board of COAST.

What is the rationale for having members from Hamilton, Butler, Warren, and Clermont counties on the SORTA board if only the City of Cincinnati contributes to funding? Why would Cincinnati agree to such an arrangement?

 

Shit like this arrangement and the Tea Party nominees to the board are why I think Cincinnati's chances for a true urban turn around are limited.  The deck is stacked against the city, and we don't have the clout or power to fight back.

Shit like this arrangement and the Tea Party nominees to the board are why I think Cincinnati's chances for a true urban turn around are limited.  The deck is stacked against the city, and we don't have the clout or power to fight back.

 

Bringing us back to why we're building a streetcar completely within the city boundaries, instead of Metro Moves.

I used to understand all this stuff but I have been out of the transit business for a long time.  Someone please explain to me: 1) as a practical matter what is the impact of 2 seats turning over as far as balance of power; 2) SORTA I believe is the FTA pass-thru for transit funding in the tri-state area, a regional body as required by federal law for FTA funding. 3) so, in practical terms, what authority/control does SORTA actually exercise over operations of Queen City Metro and the streetcar?  Realistically, how much damage can the SORTA Board actually do?

OKI is our regional MPO which the FTA distributes funds to. SORTA and Metro are synonymous. (Southwest Ohio Reguonal Transit Authority) so SORTA is directly responsible for funding our bus service, however at this point SORTA is not directly responsible for funding allocations toward the streetcar because the contracts haven't been finalized yet. It's been assumed by everybody that SORTA will and most signs are still pointing that way though.

 

I'm not sure what the balance of pro-transit, anti-transit, or indifferent is on the board.

OKI is our regional MPO which the FTA distributes funds to. SORTA and Metro are synonymous. (Southwest Ohio Reguonal Transit Authority) so SORTA is directly responsible for funding our bus service, however at this point SORTA is not directly responsible for funding allocations toward the streetcar because the contracts haven't been finalized yet. It's been assumed by everybody that SORTA will and most signs are still pointing that way though.

 

I'm not sure what the balance of pro-transit, anti-transit, or indifferent is on the board.

 

There is a history of people serving on SORTA's board who have made careers opposing improvements to public transportation.  Charlie Luken of course appointed his dad, Tom Luken, in the early 2000s after Metro Moves as a "watchdog".  Then there's Stephan Louis, who led the anti-Metro Moves campaign, who was only removed from SORTA's board when racist comments he made on an internet message board were reported by...Kevin Osborne. 

 

^Yup, got it.  So what damage can a hostile SORTA Board actually do...and how much difference does a 2 seat turnover make?  Interesting stuff to me because it kind of parallels the issues I was involved with when I was working in the transit industry.

There is a history of people serving on SORTA's board who have made careers opposing improvements to public transportation

 

I was going to say the same thing.  I can remember a politician who promised to CUT service, in order to keep the riders out of the neighborhood. This is not unique to transit, though. In a local public school board race, one of the candidates campaigned on a tax reduction policy, and when elected, proceeded to vote AGAINST improvements to the school district. Sometimes we imagine that governments are organized, progressive, and benign, but in the real world it's chaos.

 

 

Members Leaving

 

Suzanne Burke: Burke, a Wyoming, Ohio, resident, is currently Chief Executive Officer of Council on Aging of Southwestern Ohio, a role held since 2005. Previously, she worked for Hamilton County for 17 years serving as the Acting Hamilton County Administrator, Director of the Department of Job & Family Services, and Director of Administrative Services (County Budget Director) among other positions.

 

Todd Cooper: a partner at the law firm Squire Sanders (www.squiresanders.com), focuses his practice on tax matters related to public finance, primarily the federal taxation aspects of municipal bonds. He also serves as bond and underwriter’s counsel on public finance transactions. He received his JD and MBA from the University of Notre Dame and a Bachelor of Arts degree from Amherst College. Cooper currently resides in Anderson.

 

Members Joining

 

Jack Painter: Indian Hill resident, president of a local Tea Party group. Probably hasn't ridden a bus for four decades. AMERICA.

 

Daniel St. Charles: No one knows who he is. Apparently he makes websites and is on the board of COAST.

 

Jack Painter, like many appointed board members, is probably there for his intelligence.  We don't know yet if his wisdom agrees with ours.

Discussion of the SORTA board has been moved here.

  • 2 weeks later...

 

Fascinating results.

 

92.9% agree with this statement: "Even though you may not use public transit, ensuring that the system can provide transportation to seniors, students, workers and people without cars is essential to the economy and the basic quality of life in the community."

 

In general it seems like most of the respondents still view public transportation as a social service of sorts, not some thing that should actually be "nice" or that they feel they would rely on.

The number of people who would vote against a permanent sales tax levy is disappointing. I would vote in favor of a temporary one, but I would much rather not have to vote on it and make it a political issue often. Let's just fund it and move on.

I'm surprised, though, that they didn't even ask a single question about rail transit choices. It's a perfect opportunity to at least gauge your constituents.

The number of people who would vote against a permanent sales tax levy is disappointing. I would vote in favor of a temporary one, but I would much rather not have to vote on it and make it a political issue often. Let's just fund it and move on.

 

Yes, but I was surprised how _many_ people said they would vote for a 1/4 or 1/2 cent sales tax increase for 10 years -- and this is just an impromptu survey without any plan or education (or opposition, yes that's true...). Seemed overall encouraging to me given how little experience our county has with public transit.

 

The single question I found most depressing was this:

 

Q. 19. Do you agree or disagree that...Any additional tax dollars for transportation should be spent to resurface and widen existing roads and highways, rather than on buses and public transit?

58.5% Agree

35.2 Disagree

6.2 Unsure/no answer

Still, this question might suffer from a poor design, cause it doesn't really make sense in light of other responses.

 

Fascinating results.

 

92.9% agree with this statement: "Even though you may not use public transit, ensuring that the system can provide transportation to seniors, students, workers and people without cars is essential to the economy and the basic quality of life in the community."

 

In general it seems like most of the respondents still view public transportation as a social service of sorts, not some thing that should actually be "nice" or that they feel they would rely on.

 

Travis nailed it. Too many people here view public transportation as a social program.

The number of people who would vote against a permanent sales tax levy is disappointing. I would vote in favor of a temporary one, but I would much rather not have to vote on it and make it a political issue often. Let's just fund it and move on.

 

Yes, but I was surprised how _many_ people said they would vote for a 1/4 or 1/2 cent sales tax increase for 10 years -- and this is just an impromptu survey without any plan or education (or opposition, yes that's true...). Seemed overall encouraging to me given how little experience our county has with public transit.

 

The single question I found most depressing was this:

 

Q. 19. Do you agree or disagree that...Any additional tax dollars for transportation should be spent to resurface and widen existing roads and highways, rather than on buses and public transit?

58.5% Agree

35.2 Disagree

6.2 Unsure/no answer

Still, this question might suffer from a poor design, cause it doesn't really make sense in light of other responses.

 

This questions are asked in the absence of a campaign, so there's no way to know how answers would change after six months of proponents and opponents duking it out. 

 

 

Fascinating results.

 

92.9% agree with this statement: "Even though you may not use public transit, ensuring that the system can provide transportation to seniors, students, workers and people without cars is essential to the economy and the basic quality of life in the community."

 

In general it seems like most of the respondents still view public transportation as a social service of sorts, not some thing that should actually be "nice" or that they feel they would rely on.

 

Travis nailed it. Too many people here view public transportation as a social program.

 

I completely agree with you (and Travis) but that's only my opinion (as well as yours -- and I don't think it's a very surprising one). You can't get that from the response to this survey question. It seems created so that you'd have to be a callous jerk in order to disagree.

 

They could have asked a bunch of different questions geared towards peoples views of public transit, but they didn't do that.

People need to learn some facts, like how abnormal it is that the county doesn't throw in any funding for SORTA versus what is normal across the state and elsewhere. It's an uphill battle, but many local voters are simply not equipped with the information they need to make informed decisions. Cincinnatians for Progress, Believe, and others can get the boots on the ground, the OpEds, etc., necessary to beat the inevitable misinformation campaign, but we all need to be proactive and not reactionary.

I don't think we can talk people into supporting public transportation. We have to show them. Make it real to them.

 

Think back to December of last year. Probably the fact that there were tracks in the ground, progress you could see, plus the prospct of wasting money already spent on the streetcar -- that reality caused the Enquirer, many more Cincinnatians and eventually a super-majority of City Council to continue along the path to a balanced transportation system.

 

And I think improvements like MetroPlus and, yes, the Cincinnati Streetcar will slowly move the needle toward greater support. I mean, face it, people in Cincinnati don't travel that much (we're the 27th largest Metro but something like the 50th largest air travel market), and people here know very little about what's happening in this field all over the country and around the world.

 

So it's just going to take getting some more wins before voters come around. And I think they will.

 

Maybe they'll come around by 2016. Too bad Metro isn't testing support for rail.

^ I agree with you for the long term, but with the sales taxes the survey was asking about, the margins are close enough that just a little bit of education on the topic could go a long way. But if Tom Luken gets to frame the discussion so we're defending pork chops instead of championing the benefits of county transit funding enjoyed by Columbus, Cleveland, Dayton, Akron, and Toledo, then we are pointlessly treading water.

 

After all, it is with improvements like those that can be made with county funding (on a level the survey shows present support for) that will allow the value of transit to be demonstrated to an inexperienced public. Imagine if every NBD had at least one attractive bus shelter with a realtime arrival display.

I don't think we can talk people into supporting public transportation. We have to show them. Make it real to them.

 

Think back to December of last year. Probably the fact that there were tracks in the ground, progress you could see, plus the prospct of wasting money already spent on the streetcar -- that reality caused the Enquirer, many more Cincinnatians and eventually a super-majority of City Council to continue along the path to a balanced transportation system.

 

And I think improvements like MetroPlus and, yes, the Cincinnati Streetcar will slowly move the needle toward greater support. I mean, face it, people in Cincinnati don't travel that much (we're the 27th largest Metro but something like the 50th largest air travel market), and people here know very little about what's happening in this field all over the country and around the world.

 

So it's just going to take getting some more wins before voters come around. And I think they will.

 

Maybe they'll come around by 2016. Too bad Metro isn't testing support for rail.

 

Great post.  I would add one more thing, since most people think of transit as being a social welfare program, then talk to people about how its far more than just that.  I think that's an angle I like to use being a choice rider living in a city where transit isn't viewed as a social welfare program but as a means to get around.  The UP North commuter train for instance carries much of the elite of Chicago every day reducing much traffic from non traditional transit users in the process. - Cincinnatians need to be educated at the lifestyle changes transit will bring not how its a way to get poor people to work (though that is a benefit).

Unless the new appointments are to replace these guys (in which I'll eat crow) I think according to this: http://www.bocc2.hamilton-co.org/sirepub/cache/2/4v0jxaorqllqm5y5pvoftphx/18455610142014034144417.PDF and this: http://www.hamiltoncountyohio.gov/boards_commissions/docs/SORTA.asp

 

The two new guys are:

 

 

The Mayor just made another appointment to the SORTA board, though I'm not sure who this replaces:

 

Brendon Cull - ‎Senior Director, Government Relations and Regulatory Affairs at The Kroger Co. He's been involved in local politics for a decade or more.

He previously worked under Charlie Luken when he was mayor.

Unless the new appointments are to replace these guys (in which I'll eat crow) I think according to this: http://www.bocc2.hamilton-co.org/sirepub/cache/2/4v0jxaorqllqm5y5pvoftphx/18455610142014034144417.PDF and this: http://www.hamiltoncountyohio.gov/boards_commissions/docs/SORTA.asp

 

The two new guys are:

 

 

The Mayor just made another appointment to the SORTA board, though I'm not sure who this replaces:

 

Brendon Cull - ‎Senior Director, Government Relations and Regulatory Affairs at The Kroger Co. He's been involved in local politics for a decade or more.

 

Replaced Brandi Stewart. She had to leave the board because she's starting at a new job in Dayton

  • 1 month later...

Former Atlanta streetcar boss to lead SORTA

 

Dwight Ferrell, the former Atlanta streetcar manager and executive for several large public transportation agencies across the U.S., is expected to be named the new CEO and general manager of Greater Cincinnati's largest transit agency.

 

The Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority board is expected to approve the hiring at Tuesday's monthly meeting.

 

Ferrell would replace Terry Garcia Crews, who abruptly resigned in July.

 

Cont

"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

Former Atlanta streetcar boss to lead SORTA

 

Dwight Ferrell, the former Atlanta streetcar manager and executive for several large public transportation agencies across the U.S., is expected to be named the new CEO and general manager of Greater Cincinnati's largest transit agency.

 

The Southwest Ohio Regional Transit Authority board is expected to approve the hiring at Tuesday's monthly meeting.

 

Ferrell would replace Terry Garcia Crews, who abruptly resigned in July.

 

Cont

 

This article is highly misleading, and the one in the BizCourier is better... the man brings a lot of experience to Cincinnati, with postings in Atlanta, Philly, Austin, New Orleans, and Dallas, in addition to being County Admin in Fulton County (Atlanta), GA.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/12/09/metro-could-hire-this-transit-veteran-to-be-its.html?

I missed this earlier article, where Cranley seems willing to play hardball with the County. I'd love to see him push on the suburbs and the County to either pay up, or give up their Metro service: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2014/11/mayor-cranley-said-what-three-surprising.html?page=all

"The city is clearly doing its part. It puts $50 million a year into transit, but no other government in the region puts in a dime. So we're going to have to ask our community over the next four to five years if they want to maintain and improve the system or oversee its decline."

 

Cranley said the city's income tax subsidizes routes to the suburbs. He's referring to Hamilton County routes, which are grandfathered in from the 1970s, when the bus system was a private company. While the $2.65 fare in Hamilton County is higher than the $1.75 fare within the city, it does not cover the costs of those routes.

 

"I'd like to see that end because we're going to spend the same amount of money either way," Cranley said.

 

Cranley hinted at a bit of potential brinkmanship with Hamilton County, where voters long have refused to tax themselves to fund bus service.

 

"If the suburbs don't pay their fair share, we can increase service in the city and get much more crosstown routes and more efficient movement within the city," Cranley said. "We're going to be raising all of these issues over the next several years. Fundamentally, the region, the community itself, is going to have to decide whether it wants to keep and improve the transit system or not."

^That may be the first thing Cranley's said that I agree with.  It's obviously more complicated than that, because city residents use those lines to reach jobs in the suburbs, but something has to be done about SORTA's funding disparity.

I'm curious whether the Riverfront Transit Center would be a viable option as a replacement to the aging (and poorly situated) Greyhound station on Gilbert. I know various people suggested that Megabus use the Riverfront Transit Center, but the costs were prohibitive (since the exhaust fans would have to be turned on). But if Greyhound also used it, the costs would be more easily supported by Greyhound's larger number of buses.

 

It would be so great to have the Riverfront Transit Center serve as the hub for all intercity bus travel (Megabus, Greyhound, etc), with direct connections to the streetcar and Metro.

 

Another benefit would be the chance to replace the current Greyhound Station with a taller building that would cover up the casino's ugly garage and backside.

I think part of the problem was that MegaBus just does not want to pay and wants to freeload off of public streets as their own bus station.

I think Greyhound likes owning their own station. I think the only place they don't own a building is in NYC. Pretty much every other city they own the structure they operate out of. I doubt there is a situation the city will propose that lures Greyhound to the RTC.

I think Greyhound likes owning their own station. I think the only place they don't own a building is in NYC. Pretty much every other city they own the structure they operate out of. I doubt there is a situation the city will propose that lures Greyhound to the RTC.

 

Except there are two Greyhounds -- transportation Greyhound and real estate Greyhound. And sometimes real estate Greyhound owns stations while other times transportation Greyhound owns them. This stems from a bankrupty reorganization in the early 1990s. So sometimes transportation Greyhound wants to leave a station owned by real estate Greyhound but can't leave because real estate Greyhound has a multi-year lease with transportation Greyhound. So the only way the lease can be forgiven is for transportation Greyhound (or someone on its behalf) to pay enough to let real estate Greyhound to forgive the lease.

 

This has been the issue in Toledo where transportation Greyhound has wanted to leave the old station owned by real estate Greyhound but couldn't because of a multi-year lease. However that lease has expired and Greyhound will soon move to Toledo MLK Plaza, the former Central Union Terminal where the Amtrak station is located.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

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