Sure, saying "everyone should take responsibility for their actions" is nice and all, but it is not, nor ever will be, realistic.  Just like some religious conservatives trying to combat teen pregnancy with abstinence only education.....you have to accept the fact that humans are not perfect and these perfect ideals will not work.  Sure you try to teach them but you must accept that they will never totally take hold.

 

People taking responsibility for their own actions IS realistic. But, heavens no!!! Lets blame everybody else for everything!!

 

Okay, I blame you because I have always sucked at mathematics. The black community should continue blaming their self-inflicted problems on "whitey" like race hustlers Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson say to do. Lets let the Jena 6 off the hook even though they did beat a kid into a bloody pulp who had nothing to do with the noose deal. The couple divorcing each other should blame the successful couple because of their marriage falling apart. The kid who has flunked every class should blame the kid who makes all A's for the kid flunking every class's problems. The woman on welfare with 6 kids and struggling to make it should blame the people with children but are good with their finances.

 

I can't believe it, but I actually agree with the 'religious right' on something, but for different reasons. Maybe if people did abstain from sex for some time, half the problems they get into won't occur. No diseases, no unwanted pregnancies, less failed marriages because of the previous. Maybe if people waited until they are financially stable to have children, maybe they won't end up poor. What a concept!

 

Sure, saying "everyone should take responsibility for their actions" is nice and all, but it is not, nor ever will be, realistic.  Just like some religious conservatives trying to combat teen pregnancy with abstinence only education.....you have to accept the fact that humans are not perfect and these perfect ideals will not work.  Sure you try to teach them but you must accept that they will never totally take hold.

 

People taking responsibility for their own actions IS realistic. But, heavens no!!! Lets blame everybody else for everything!!

 

Okay, I blame you because I have always sucked at mathematics. The black community should continue blaming their self-inflicted problems on "whitey" like race hustlers Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson say to do. Lets let the Jena 6 off the hook even though they did beat a kid into a bloody pulp who had nothing to do with the noose deal. The couple divorcing each other should blame the successful couple because of their marriage falling apart. The kid who has flunked every class should blame the kid who makes all A's for the kid flunking every class's problems. The woman on welfare with 6 kids and struggling to make it should blame the people with children but are good with their finances.

 

I can't believe it, but I actually agree with the 'religious right' on something, but for different reasons. Maybe if people did abstain from sex for some time, half the problems they get into won't occur. No diseases, no unwanted pregnancies, less failed marriages because of the previous. Maybe if people waited until they are financially stable to have children, maybe they won't end up poor. What a concept!

 

You're a very angry man, bry456.

 

Sure, saying "everyone should take responsibility for their actions" is nice and all, but it is not, nor ever will be, realistic.  Just like some religious conservatives trying to combat teen pregnancy with abstinence only education.....you have to accept the fact that humans are not perfect and these perfect ideals will not work.  Sure you try to teach them but you must accept that they will never totally take hold.

 

People taking responsibility for their own actions IS realistic. But, heavens no!!! Lets blame everybody else for everything!!

 

Okay, I blame you because I have always sucked at mathematics. The black community should continue blaming their self-inflicted problems on "whitey" like race hustlers Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson say to do. Lets let the Jena 6 off the hook even though they did beat a kid into a bloody pulp who had nothing to do with the noose deal. The couple divorcing each other should blame the successful couple because of their marriage falling apart. The kid who has flunked every class should blame the kid who makes all A's for the kid flunking every class's problems. The woman on welfare with 6 kids and struggling to make it should blame the people with children but are good with their finances.

 

I can't believe it, but I actually agree with the 'religious right' on something, but for different reasons. Maybe if people did abstain from sex for some time, half the problems they get into won't occur. No diseases, no unwanted pregnancies, less failed marriages because of the previous. Maybe if people waited until they are financially stable to have children, maybe they won't end up poor. What a concept!

 

You're a very angry man, bry456.

 

Bry456 mad, Bry456 bash, Bry456 crash, must get revenge on world!!"

I can't believe it, but I actually agree with the 'religious right' on something, but for different reasons. Maybe if people did abstain from sex for some time, half the problems they get into won't occur. No diseases, no unwanted pregnancies, less failed marriages because of the previous. Maybe if people waited until they are financially stable to have children, maybe they won't end up poor. What a concept!

 

This is actually something I agree with. I'm quite annoyed by the fact that poor people tend to have many more kids and at an earlier age. My little sister was pregnant at 17 and didn't tell anybody until she was 5 months pregnant so that my mom couldn't force her to have an abortion, and she basically wanted the kid from the start. Her boyfriend is a loser, has a 10th grade education and WANTED this kid. He didn't even have a JOB when he knocked her up. In fact, he barely works because he gets "bored easily" with his jobs (at chuck-e-cheese). They had absolutely no business having a kid but they knew that my mom would bail them out of any financial trouble as she recently came into a bunch of money. People like my sister and her boyfriend are what I call "leeches". Lazy, unproductive, dependant on the wealth of others. NO ONE (even bleeding heart liberals) see that as a good trait. It's hard to have respect for anyone that doesn't handle their business. But... the kids are going to suffer because people like them are going to continue being leeches, and barely get by in life. Wellfare (although it needs to be more efficient) is something that we need, not so much for adults but for kids that deserve a decent standard of living and a fair chance in life.

 

We also need to hold parents accountable for kids with failing grades and truency, whether it's fines or jail time. That's the only thing that will improve public schools. It's kinda like how there's less of an incentive to steal something if you know you're going to get your hand cut off, compared to a few weeks in jail (or whatever the penalty is). Lazy parents will care about their kid's education if it effects them.

 

 

the kids are going to suffer because people like them are going to continue being leeches, and barely get by in life.

 

Exactly. Unfortunately there's a good chance that they will repeat the cycle when they become adults.

True. You can't let yourself be a victim of genetic fallacy. Some people..I guess just don't care.

^You guys are right. Mandatory sterilization for undesirables NOW!

Well, somewhere between manditory sterilization, and public subsidization, there's a middle ground that David and FG seem to be arguing for...

 

...that being said, I edge much more towards the public subsidizing side of the equation.  The fact that your sister is able to manipulate your mother does nothing to speak to whether there should be a base safety net for families of newborns.  I like that we use tax dollars to buy food for babies and mothers of babies.  I understand the "cycle of dependency" arguments, but those don't have anything to do with food stamps and AFDC - or at least they ought not to.

 

Cycles of dependency exist where cycles of opportunity do not. Poor people aren't the only ones reproducing like rats. The Kennedys, for example.

 

But in all honesty, so many of these poor folks who are having children they can't afford also happen to be people of faith. As much as the church likes to wave around abstinence, they know it will fail in a way that will ultimately fill the pews. And lots of needy people make for a great way to funnel funds into a preacher's pockets ("faith-based initiative" anyone?).

Just a word about people freaking out about socialism.

 

It's possible to have a social-democratic welfare state and a market economy at the same time.

 

western Germany, Scandinavia, Finland, the Benelux countrys, probably Switzerland and Austria and France all have versions of this system and they are all more or less prosperous places.

 

I recognize there are cultural and social differences that mean this won't work in the USA, but that is more an issue with our society and culture and less an issue with that form of socialism.  There might be scale issues, too, where social-democracy might only work in smaller, socially homogenous countrys.

 

 

 

 

 

"does nothing to speak to whether there should be a base safety net for families of newborns.  I like that we use tax dollars to buy food for babies and mothers of babies.  I understand the "cycle of dependency" arguments, but those don't have anything to do with food stamps and AFDC - or at least they ought not to."

 

All Im saying is that there are flaws and obviously some people take advantage of having things handed to them but that's no excuse for getting rid of the program.

^Good post. I could live with 95% of that world.

 

To me,  there are a few things wrong in America that need attention NOW.  Most social ills are just symptoms of these diseases.

 

-Personal accountability.  Please get rid of the "it wasn't my fault" crowd.  Instead, accept that you are - to a greater or lesser extent  - responsible for everything that happens to you and look for a takeaway so you can make it happen again or avoid it in the future.

 

-Entitlement.  Nobody owes you anything.  The insects and the lions have to catch their food everyday.  Darwinian, I know -  but Americans are WAY softer than they were, even 50 years ago.  The government should have a VERY limited role in the redistribution of wealth.

 

-Oligarchic Leadership.  Also known as special Interest/private campaign finance.  This has essentially created a state in which politicians are not only no longer responsible to voters but also legislate to the desires of large corporate donors.

 

I am neither R or D.  I don't know what purpose political parties serve.  Enlighten me...

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

Sure, saying "everyone should take responsibility for their actions" is nice and all, but it is not, nor ever will be, realisitc.  Just like some religious conservatives trying to combat teen pregnancy with abstinence only education.....you have to accept the fact that humans are not perfect and these perfect ideals will not work.  Sure you try to teach them but you must accept that they will never totally take hold.

 

What's not realistic?  Expecting everyone to do this - OK, agreed...that is Utopian.  But the act of actually taking responsibility and the lesson is not.  I've done it pretty consistently all my life.  Abstinence only education is somewhat short-sighted in it's denial of the foibles human nature but nobody can refute that the one foolproof way in practice to prevent pregnancy is abstinence. 

 

You say ideals never take hold...NEVER?

What bothers me about the whole "everyone should take responsibility for their actions" thing is that it's such a non-issue. Of course people should take responsibility for their actions. No political party endorses a position of zero-responsibility, yet no party truly endorses 100%-responsibility. It's just yummy red meat that puffs up generalities, puts us at extremes and stymies all hope for real discussion. You say "the welfare mother needs to stop pumping out babies!" I say "corrupt lenders need to stop looking for government bail outs!" and all of the sudden we're in another pooh-throwing contest.