well, i think it changed hands last year to argent out of NYC. 

i think the biggest problem is the size of the floor plates. 

 

What exactly are floor plates?

i think the biggest problem is the size of the floor plates. 

What exactly are floor plates?

 

the size and orientation of each floor.  so, the park building has a small floor plate/footprint/total sq ft.  this means that almost all of the rooms have windows, or aren't far from natural light, there are less units per floor, etc. 

 

the may co building (and others, eg higbees) even on the sunniest day in cleveland, when standing in the middle or any of the existing floors, it is pitch dark - basically the building spans an entire block - great for a department store with no windows, great for a data center with lots of computers, but not necessarily great for residential space.

That makes sense why, among the residential proposals I've heard, an atrium would be cut into the center of the building and topped with a skylight.

It might be in the picture thread, but someone had mentioned that 75 Public Square might go condo.  IF this happens, and it is greeted with the same enthusiasm as the Park building, THEN, maybe Jacobs Lot on Public Square might look attractive for new housing rather than office space.  Maybe

^Howell had mentioned that it would be a great candidate. I agree. You could have windows on three sides of most units. That's a beautiful building.

It might be in the picture thread, but someone had mentioned that 75 Public Square might go condo.  IF this happens, and it is greeted with the same enthusiasm as the Park building, THEN, maybe Jacobs Lot on Public Square might look attractive for new housing rather than office space.  Maybe

 

I was thinking the exact same thing!

Will the new condo's sport a Public Square address?

It might be in the picture thread, but someone had mentioned that 75 Public Square might go condo.  IF this happens, and it is greeted with the same enthusiasm as the Park building, THEN, maybe Jacobs Lot on Public Square might look attractive for new housing rather than office space.  Maybe

 

Or, they could do a combo project. With the demand for class A office space and for Public Square residential space, you could build a 40-story building that has both. Hell, let's throw in a boutique hotel as well. 

Quote from: punch on Yesterday at 10:00:45 PM

It might be in the picture thread, but someone had mentioned that 75 Public Square might go condo.  IF this happens, and it is greeted with the same enthusiasm as the Park building, THEN, maybe Jacobs Lot on Public Square might look attractive for new housing rather than office space.  Maybe

 

Or, they could do a combo project. With the demand for class A office space and for Public Square residential space, you could build a 40-story building that has both. Hell, let's throw in a boutique hotel as well.

 

You can't do that! This is Cleveland!    :wink:

I interviewed a real estate insider yesterday for an article I'm working on and specifically asked about the parking lot on Public Square. Understandably, he noted the high real estate value of the property and that it would take a large mixed-use building to make developing the site feasible. He said it would probably have to be something what Jacobs originally proposed for the site -- an office skyscraper and a neighboring hotel. But he pointed out that a hotel isn't likely right now, considering the hotel business downtown (and citywide) isn't healthy enough yet.

 

Maybe mixing offices and for-sale housing would work either in the same tower or in one small tower for one use and a taller tower for the other (ie: Ameritrust and Hyatt as Jacobs proposed). If the mixed uses were in the same tower, would you put offices on the lower floors and housing above them, or the other way around?

I interviewed a real estate insider yesterday for an article I'm working on and specifically asked about the parking lot on Public Square. Understandably, he noted the high real estate value of the property and that it would take a large mixed-use building to make developing the site feasible. He said it would probably have to be something what Jacobs originally proposed for the site -- an office skyscraper and a neighboring hotel. But he pointed out that a hotel isn't likely right now, considering the hotel business downtown (and citywide) isn't healthy enough yet.

 

Maybe mixing offices and for-sale housing would work either in the same tower or in one small tower for one use and a taller tower for the other (ie: Ameritrust and Hyatt as Jacobs proposed). If the mixed uses were in the same tower, would you put offices on the lower floors and housing above them, or the other way around?

 

What is "healthy"?  Is there a benchmark?  As reported in another thread the hotel industry took an uptick this past year.

I suspect it's an average occupancy rate. I don't know what the magic number is, but I thought I saw a number that the current average occupancy for downtown hotels is somewhere in the 50s? Maybe 70 or 80 percent is close to the magic number when building an additional hotel is warranted. This all just guessing on my part. Anyone know?

 

This discussion is starting to get into something that ought to be posted in the Business section of the forum.

great for a data center with lots of computers, but not necessarily great for residential space.

 

Unfortunately for Key employees, the May Co building is not just a data center, but is half of our IT staff.  I used to work on the 8th floor of that building, and trust me, there are no windows in sight.  They are all in conference rooms and offices.  It can get pretty depressing in there if you don't go out to see the sun at lunch.

i'm a bit confused on the model unit price.  it is listed on MLS for 289900.  but i have heard that it is "reserved" by the developer, and that there are actually significant upgrades, upwards of 75k, that were done to the unit (it makes sense if you see the wolf range/oven, subzero, automation system, lighting, etc.)

 

my question is: 1) why list a unit that is not available for sale and 2) why (and are you allowed?) post a MLS listing that is actually at least 75k less than the actual asking price?

 

i figure it is mostly about "buzz", but advertising a 289k unit that is not available, and in reality costs much more, is rather misleading. so, the unit is more accurately at least 350k for 1269 sq ft or so, which is $275/sq ft, much different than the advertised price of $227/sq ft.

 

i still think that the building has potential though.  i'm interested to see what the condo fees will be (i've heard they will be higher than pinnacle on a psf basis due to old elevators, new elevator from parking structure, old mechanicals and other factors- over $3.25/psfy - so on a 1269 unit it is ~$350/month additional condo fee).  I would think they would try and capitalize a lot of these expenses into the initial purchase prices and not the monthly maintenance fees. 

 

Also, the information on tax abatement suggests the 12 year renovation credit, but starting at only 75% for 4 years, then 50%, then 25%, then 0. 

great for a data center with lots of computers, but not necessarily great for residential space.

 

Unfortunately for Key employees, the May Co building is not just a data center, but is half of our IT staff.  I used to work on the 8th floor of that building, and trust me, there are no windows in sight.  They are all in conference rooms and offices.  It can get pretty depressing in there if you don't go out to see the sun at lunch.

 

Don't worry, I work at Tiedeman and my area does not have any windows either.

It's old news by now, but I was quite taken by the building's sturdiness...

_______________

 

http://www.cleveland.com/sun/brooklynsunjournal/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1169142924183210.xml&coll=3

 

New condos are rising downtown

Thursday, January 18, 2007

By Ken Prendergast

Brooklyn Sun Journal

 

The old saying goes "they don't build them like they used to." But few buildings here were built like the Park Building.

 

For 102 years, the Park served as an office building until Matt Howells bought it in March 2006 for $1.7 million. The nine-story building is on Public Square downtown, between the old May Co. and Higbee's department stores...

 

park building regained a lot of their sidewalk back, probably about 12ft worth. Now if only they could finish May Co.

[Don't worry, I work at Tiedeman and my area does not have any windows either.

 

Yeah, I work at Tiedeman too, but luckily that restack put me on the 6th floor by the north windows so I have a great view of downtown.

Great view of downtown, eh? Any chance you have a digital camera? :-D

On my way home after the Cavs game today, I took a walk around downtown.  While walking by the Park Building, I saw a PURE Open House sign, so I stopped in to take a look at what kind of progress had been made. 

 

I didn't notice much construction progress (on the second floor at least).  But, I did pick up a price sheet though that listed 16 out of 27 condos as already reserved. 

 

I thought that was pretty promising sign for the downtown housing market.  At the price points that they are asking (~$300 sq/ft.), it would seem to show that a project like 515 Euclid (and other high-end new condo construction) should be viable. 

That's great news. Thanks.

not trying to dampen the spirit as i really like this project, but the reservations may be misleading.

 

when i looked at a unit/reservation in this building, the reservation was only $2000 and it was fully refundable as there were no condo agreement documents drafted, construction timeline was not yet determined, they didn't know what the exact condo association fee would be, etc.

 

so, it could be that 16 people have put down 2k with very little downside risk if they choose not to ultimately purchase a unit.   It still shows interest in this great project, but the number we really want to see are pre-sales.

Have they started pre-sales yet? Or are they just taking reservations?

Sounds like the developer needs to speed things up a bit. He needs to secure those reservations before they become smitten with someother project.

^^I didn't specifically ask, but there were no pre-sales listed on the price sheet, just reservations.  So I would guess no.

Sounds like the developer needs to speed things up a bit. He needs to secure those reservations before they become smitten with someother project.

 

Shouldn't be a problem since they're all moving this slow.  Unless you mean a project in North Ridgeville.

^Stonebridge is about to open up a new building.

Does anyone have a total price tag for this project?

Around $9,000,000

and does anyone know why they took the building accent lights down?  they were on for a month or so, but now all of the fixtures have been removed.

A couple of the store fronts are expanding hours in the Park Building.  Suzy's smoothies and soups is now planning on staying open past lunchtime for the first time in its history (as of yesterday!).  The store clerk said it depends on their business during the after lunch hours (roughly until 5 or 6) to see if they will continue it.  If business is good, they may even expand even more.  Also, I've been having a cappucino as late as 10:50 pm during the week at "For goodness jakes."  Great to see places on public square staying open later..

hells yes!  with the combination of E. 4th activity spreading towards the Square, the condos in the works and the CVB opening across Ontario, there may be life on these streets! 

 

On a similar note, the sidewalk in front of the above eateries is significantly wider (if I recall correctly) now than it was before the ECTP construction.  I would hope that they can fill vacancies with shops that will add sidewalk seating and that current tenants will pursue the same.  I've long held that this is a relatively simple addition that will add vibrancy (and eyes on the street) to the Square.

It definitely is much wider, and looks great with the brick work.  Good call!

Some interior demolition is happening in the spaces where GNC and Subway used to be. The retail spaces in the building are very small and must be hard to lease. Does anyone know if the developer has any specific plans for the street level space?

I wouldn't mind some smaller, more affordable retail spaces, especially for some mom-and-pop uniqueness.

The interior demolition is due to the reshuffling of the existing retail tenants. Since the building was configured for offices, one of the restaurants (Sushi 86) had their kitchen on the second floor (accessed by a narrow staircase) which is now being converted into the condo units. So, they moved them to the Ontario side where they're on one level and have more seating. All the restaurants are "mom and pop" but it would be nice to see a retail space or two in that spot as well.

Ah. Comprendo.

The space where GNC and Subway used to be is going to be a dollar bank branch.  They are currently removing 2 of the entry ways to accomodate the branch which will take up the entire eastern side of the building front. Removing those entry ways will also allow them to grade up the sidewalks and complete the brick work in the front.  Apparently they miscaluclated the height of the vaults underneath which is why there is a large area of concrete out front and not brick.  By losing the entry ways they'll be able to correct this.  The rest of the store front signage on the building is also set for restoration.  I've seen the renderings.  It should look pretty sharp when it's complete.

The space where GNC and Subway used to be is going to be a dollar bank branch.  They are currently removing 2 of the entry ways to accomodate the branch which will take up the entire eastern side of the building front. Removing those entry ways will also allow them to grade up the sidewalks and complete the brick work in the front.  Apparently they miscaluclated the height of the vaults underneath which is why there is a large area of concrete out front and not brick.  By losing the entry ways they'll be able to correct this.  The rest of the store front signage on the building is also set for restoration.  I've seen the renderings.  It should look pretty sharp when it's complete.

 

Thanks, and welcome McCleveland

The space where GNC and Subway used to be is going to be a dollar bank branch.  They are currently removing 2 of the entry ways to accomodate the branch which will take up the entire eastern side of the building front. Removing those entry ways will also allow them to grade up the sidewalks and complete the brick work in the front.  Apparently they miscaluclated the height of the vaults underneath which is why there is a large area of concrete out front and not brick.  By losing the entry ways they'll be able to correct this.  The rest of the store front signage on the building is also set for restoration.  I've seen the renderings.  It should look pretty sharp when it's complete.

 

Ooh, you sound like you know some stuff. Cool. While we always like new additions to UO, we especially like the ones that know a thing or two. Welcome!

The rest of us have to get by on our good looks alone. It's not easy!

 

Just curious about Dollar Bank... Are they expanding with this space in the Galleria and this?

Thanks 3231. I got turned on to this forum a couple months ago and have just been viewing but finally signed up as a user. I live and work downtown and also sit on the board of directors of the gateway neighborhood assoc as well as the gateway architectural review board (which this building happens to be in)... so i happen to stumble upon some pretty good info from time to time.  i'll try to keep people more in the loop in the future and see if i can't get a hold of some of the rendering packets we receive at design review to post.

...so i happen to stumble upon some pretty good info from time to time.  i'll try to keep people more in the loop in the future and see if i can't get a hold of some of the rendering packets we receive at design review to post.

^Cool!

 

 

Just curious about Dollar Bank... Are they expanding with this space in the Galleria and this?

 

Maybe this will mean that they'll close the branch that's next to the 668 building & across from E.6th?

 

 

Maybe this will mean that they'll close the branch that's next to the 668 building & across from E.6th?

 

Yea - that is the plan.  When everything is finalized with K&D buying the 668 Euclid building and retrofitted to apartments, this old Dollar Bank building you speak of will be knocked down to make way for access to the parking garage for the building.  

 

Maybe this will mean that they'll close the branch that's next to the 668 building & across from E.6th?

 

Yea - that is the plan.  When everything is finalized with K&D buying the 668 Euclid building and retrofitted to apartments, this old Dollar Bank building you speak of will be knocked down to make way for access to the parking garage for the building. 

 

Do you know anything more specific about what this access is going to be?  If they're just going to tear down the building to create an alley, that would be a real shame...

^I hear that is what they want to do, but I've heard that they are going to have some difficulty. Supposedly the Dollar Bank has a beautiful facade underneath that 60s addition. Its going to take a lot of political will (not sure that it exists) to tear down that building.

Maybe this will mean that they'll close the branch that's next to the 668 building & across from E.6th?

 

Yea - that is the plan.  When everything is finalized with K&D buying the 668 Euclid building and retrofitted to apartments, this old Dollar Bank building you speak of will be knocked down to make way for access to the parking garage for the building.  

 

Couldn't they just continue to access the parking garage from Prospect?

I guess this mean the condo project that was supposed to happen there is dead, huh?

 

 

Where is this parking garage?  The only one that I know of around there wouldn't be accessed by knocking down the Dollar Bank building.