Posted December 31, 200420 yr As some of you may know, the historic Kauffman Brewery on Vine Street in Over-the-Rhine is under threat of demolition. This is a large structure that has great historical and cultural value, as well as immense potential for redevelopment, but time is running out because a couple of fires have led the building to be condemed. The Black Theatre Company has expressed interest in buying and rehabbing the facility, but at this point no deal has been worked out, and my understanding is that it's doubtful they'll have the necessary funds to pull it off alone. The point of this post is to try to garner some interest in the plight of this building, and to see if something can be done. I, for one, will be extremely disheartened if we lose yet another historic building in OTR. I know that many of you take great interest in our city, and I think that if we would pool our resources and effort around some issues, we could have a tremendous impact. Please let me know if you have any ideas or suggestions for saving the Kauffman brewery, or if you'd like to do something to help. I was thinking that a $10 donation from members of forums like Urban Ohio and Cincinnati Tomorrow (and perhaps also from other organizations) could raise a very substantial sum of money and contribute to the stabilization of the building, thus saving it from demolition. I recognize this may be impractical, but I thought I'd throw it out there. Let me know what you think! Danny Klingler [email protected]
December 31, 200420 yr My heart breaks everytime I see a building come down in OTR. I am with you dglenn!!
December 31, 200420 yr dglenn you have my ears, I would be interested in more info about this building and possibly a old and recent pic to see what it once was and what it is like today. I have probably past this place on several occasions but I don't recall it off the top of my head.
January 1, 200520 yr Cool, I will try to get a pic posted ASAP, thanks for your interest. By the way, I love your logo...maybe CM would be interested in occupying the old Kauffman Brewery when they bring their operations back to Cincy :)
January 1, 200520 yr The address is 1725 Vine....for some reason the Auditor's website doesn't have a record of the building though, so I'll have to find a pic elsewhere. Here's a quote on the building from an article online: "Of the buildings owned by the company, the grandest is Kauffman Brewery Co. at 1725 Vine St. The 1876 structure once housed brewery workers in elegant Italianate style; it has a three-story atrium with a floor made of glass circles like beer-bottle bottoms."
January 1, 200520 yr Just dug this off of a google search..... OTR’s Kaufmann Building Threatened With Demolition The fate of the Kaufmann Building, located at 1721-1725 Vine Street in Over-the-Rhine, hangs in the balance. In 1988 the building was severely damaged by a fire that destroyed the roof, cornice and part of the rear wall. The Abandoned Buildings Corporation, a group dedicated to saving derelict buildings in Over-the-Rhine, then bought the building and “mothballed” it until a new owner and new use could be found. A second fire, in 2003, further undermined the structure. Because of the building’s rapidly deteriorating condition, the City of Cincinnati’s Department of Buildings & Inspections proposed to demolish it as a public nuisance. At an October 29 hearing, community leaders offered eloquent testimony to the building’s architectural significance and its potential as an anchor for the struggling Upper Vine business district. The City’s Department of Community Development & Planning, supported by the Over-the-Rhine Stakeholders Group, expressed interest in saving the building and will conduct a preliminary engineering study to determine if it is still structurally sound. The Stakeholders Group, an OTR citizens’ organization working on a neighborhood Master Plan, has also requested the City conduct an engineering and streetscape design plan for Upper Vine so future streetscape and façade improvements in the area can be funded. The City voted to continue the matter for 60 days, after which time the building’s fate must be decided. An imposing Renaissance Revival apartment house four stories in height, the Kaufmann Building is one of the dominant landmarks of the Findlay Market area. It was built in 1876 as an investment by the Kaufmann Brewery, one of Cincinnati’s most successful brewing operations of the 19th century. Kaufmann ranked as the city’s fourth-largest brewing operation in 1871 and sold its beer in six Southern cities as well as Cincinnati. For more information about the Kaufmann Building, contact CPA at 513-721-4506 or the Vine Street Subcommittee at 513-260-8434. http://www.cincinnatipreservation.org/images/kaufmann.gif
January 2, 200520 yr Thanks for finding that I spoke with a community leader a couple days ago who is highly interested in saving the building, and she informed me that there will be another hearing in late January that may well determine its fate. I'm going to call CPA to see if they have any suggestions for helping, but judging from my past experience with them they aren't that well organized and don't know how to make use of volunteers.
January 2, 200520 yr While I am in favor of historic preservation, I would want evidence that the building is structurally sound before giving any money. The facade is beautiful and a grand part of OTR history, but if structurally it cannot be salvage, then I say bring it down. I can't help but wonder why other buildings in OTR that are literally crashing down before our eyes have not been slated for demolition and nuisance before this one. Can anyone enlighten me with the answer?
January 2, 200520 yr Other buildings are definitely being condemned and slated for demolition. For example, I believe it was 1611 Elm St. that was torn down last spring because it was in such bad shape, and another building owned by Urban Sites was demolished last summer after a fire. As for your concern about the structural soundness of the brewery, apparently an engineering study is going to be done (has been done?) to determine its condition. I will say though that I believe that just about ANY building can be saved. Some may require inordinate amounts of funds, but to me these resources are so invaluable and irreplacable that they deserve every preservation effort. OTR has immense potential because of its architectural value, and with every demolition a little bit of that value is lost.
January 3, 200520 yr The thing that irritates me is the “mothballed” comment. I am not a fan of buying something to sit on it to obtain wealth when things start happening around it. I have seen this all the time. Why didn't the owners restore it or make it structurally safe? To be honest with you the building from this pic doesn't impress me. Maybe one of our OTR residents can take a pic sometime this week and post it How close is this building located to Findlay Market?
January 3, 200520 yr I went up vine st today forgot the camera of course, the building is HUGE at street level. it will be a BIG broken tooth if it comes down, I am against any demolition of any "historically contributing building" in OTR. or any other historic district. Go down and see the building up close it NEEDS to be saved!
January 3, 200520 yr I'll try to take some pics at various angles tomorrow and post them. I'm also going to try to find some old pics of it in books on Cincy's breweries. I feel like if the building could just hang on for couple more years, OTR would have enough momentum that investors would step in to rehab it. But the department of buildings and inspections is so damn concerned with public "nuissances" and potential collapse that they're anxious as hell to bring it down
January 3, 200520 yr dglenn I understand where you are coming from but where are the owners? Why aren't they stepping up? Are they just a group of people sitting on this building to make money one day? I would not be interested in giving my hard earned dollars to some owner so he can fix up his property and make a mint off of it. I would however be interested in possibly being an investor/part owner of a historic building in OTR where I would get a return on my investment. Isn't there a Hamilton Co. real estate site that lists all the info about the owner of this building?
January 3, 200520 yr the auditor lists it as 1721 vine st. parcel id 094-0008-0237-00 http://www.hamiltoncountyauditor.org/realestate/ owner: ABANDONED BUILDINGS CO 1210 SYCAMORE ST CINCINNATI, OH 45210 USA
January 3, 200520 yr owner: ABANDONED BUILDINGS CO 1210 SYCAMORE ST CINCINNATI, OH 45210 USA wow, what a fitting name for a company
January 3, 200520 yr I hear you Monte...I just spoke with Margaret Warminski of Cincy Preservation and here's what she told me: 1) Obviously the building is owned by the Abandoned Buildings Corporation, and they are a NON-PROFIT run by John Hauck dedicated to preserving derelict buildings in Cincinnati. 2) After buying the building a few years back, they put $200,000 in repairs into it, only to see their efforts negated by a second fire about a year ago. It was this fire that really left the building in bad shape, and prompted the city to propose demolition 3) There was a hearing on the building in December, at which time a decision on the building was delayed until a second hearing that will take place later this month. 4) According to Margaret Warminski, by far the best option for saving the building is garnering interest from a principal investor. 5) There are two potential investors at the moment. First is the Black Theatre Company; second, and supposedly the more serious of the two contenders, is a group called a sort of coalition of non-profits (e.g. inktank) that would like to use the building as a shared administrative space. The problem is, of course, that it's going to cost A LOT to fix the building up. I'm going to contact John Hauck, Jim Tarbell, and Kathy Holwadel of Inktank to see what they have to say.
January 3, 200520 yr I dont even think the building looks that great...just my opinion. I think it could be torn down and a new condo/apartment building could be constructed in place of it.
January 3, 200520 yr chances are a new condo would detract from the architectural integrity of the neighborhood. The building may not look great now, but keep in mind that it's in terrible shape and the ground level has been covered with a hideous orange something or other. This is an historic German district we're talking about here. The travel book author Arthur Frommer said it had more potential than any neighborhood he's seen in the U.S. I don't think we can afford to let buildings like these go...sure, it may not be music hall, but these OTR buildings have a subtle beauty and a value that goes beyond their facade.
January 4, 200520 yr edale made a good point but dglenn I agree with what you said. Keep us up to date. Also post some info on other buildings in OTR that could be a good deal for some of us to seriously look at purchasing. Maybe some of the Urban Ohio gang could go in as partners and actually put our money where our mouth is.
January 4, 200520 yr I dont even think the building looks that great...just my opinion. I think it could be torn down and a new condo/apartment building could be constructed in place of it. This is the kind of thinking that has no place in OTR. There are plenty of vacant lots to build on but chances are it isnt going to happen and the more original buildings that are lost the less chance anything will be rehabbed, or anything new will be built. That building is a diamond in the rough.. just my opinion
January 4, 200520 yr Other buildings are definitely being condemned and slated for demolition. For example, I believe it was 1611 Elm St. that was torn down last spring because it was in such bad shape, and another building owned by Urban Sites was demolished last summer after a fire. Do you know anything about the urban sites fire? What is their record like?
January 4, 200520 yr Mr. Coffee, I agree with you completely Mark - Urban Sites has a great record. In fact, they are pretty much THE rehabber of historic properties in OTR. Check out their website for pics of some of the loft conversions they do. http://urbansitesproperty.com As for the fire, I don't know much about it other than Urban Sites owned the building and had intended to rehab it
January 4, 200520 yr Monte, you can get an idea how much buildings are worth and what they look like by going to the auditor's website and performing a search http://www.hamiltoncountyauditor.org For real insight as to what properties would be good fixer-uppers, I would talk with Bill Baum (of Urban Sites), Jim Tarbell, or one of the other OTR lovers who would gladly provide you with that kind of info
January 8, 200520 yr It turns out someone from the Vine Street Steering Team noticed a similar thread re: the Kauffman Brewery that I posted on Cincinnati Tomorrow, and was prompted to write an email to various city councilmembers and the Mayor (and myself). I thought I'd copy that email here, along with my response: On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 13:10:33 -0500, Daniel Glenn Rieman-Klingler <[email protected]> wrote: > Mr. Donaldson, > > I'm so glad you found my article -- thanks for forwarding it! I should > mention, however, that I meant to put a zero or two in front of the $1 when I > suggested donations from members. I'm not naive enough to think that a couple > hundred bucks could do much of anything to help save the building! > I wanted to make you aware (as you already may be) of efforts by Julie Fay and > myself to organize a coalition of investors to rehabilitate and inhabit the > building. The two biggest potential investors at this point are the Cincinnati > Black Theatre group, and Inktank. Both entities have expressed interest in a > collaborative investment, and Inktank would actually like to form a consortium > of non-profits to invest in the property and use it as shared administrative > space. > I spoke with Ed Sherman of CBTC yesterday, and he claims that they are very > intent on moving forward with the property. I've also been in contact with > Jeff Syroney of Inktank, and not only does he seem quite interested, he also > seems to have access to funds. In order to see whether there's synergy between > the two organizations, we're in the process of setting up a meeting for next > week, which may also include a "walkabout" of the property. I'll inform you of > the meeting time and place when I know. > Again, I'm so pleased you happened across my post, and I hope we can join > forces to work toward saving this treasure. > > Sincerely, > Danny Klingler > Masters in City Planning Candidate, 2006 > Massachusetts Institute of Technology > [email protected] > http://www.web.mit.edu/dglenn/www > > "In all of America, there is no more promising an urban area for revitalization > than your own Over-the-Rhine. When I look at that remarkably untouched, > expansive section of architecturally uniform structures, unmarred by clashing > modern structures, I see in my mind the possibility for a revived district that > literally could rival similar prosperous and heavily visited areas." > > -Arthur Frommer, renowned travel writer > > > Quoting "SHANGLO, LLC" <[email protected]>: > > > Distinguished members of council, > > > > I know that you four care about OTR but I am not sure if you are aware > > that the old Kauffman Brewery is scheduled for tear down. I wanted to > > bring this to your attention in case you may have some energy to help. > > I am encouraged by many of the efforts that this council has put > > forth to rebuild OTR and I look forward to your continued efforts. > > > > I am copying you on an article that I came across on > > cincinnatitomorrow.com I am on the Vine street steering team but we > > have not met since the sidewalk has been blocked off in front of the > > brewery. I contacted the Jennifer Walke in the development office she > > is also on the Vine street committee and was not aware of this. I > > think this is an important landmark to the area and would like to see > > it saved. > > > > Thanks for reading. > > > > Warm regards, > > John Donaldson > > (513) 381-8299 > > > > > > > > http://cincinnatitomorrow.com/bb-topic-337.html > > > > As some of you may know, the historic Kauffman Brewery on Vine Street > > in Over-the-Rhine is under threat of demolition. This is a large > > structure that has great historical and cultural value, as well as > > immense potential for redevelopment, but time is running out. The > > Black Theatre Company has expressed interest in buying and > > rehabbingthe facility, but at this point no deal has been worked out, > > and my understanding is that it's doubtful they'll have the necessary > > funds to pull it off alone. > > > > The point of this post is to try to garner some interest in the plight > > of this building, and to see if something can be done. I, for one, > > will be extremely disheartened if we lose yet another historic > > building in OTR. I know that many of you take great interest in our > > city, and I think that if we would pool our resources and effort > > around some issues, we could have a tremendous impact. > > > > Please let me know if you have any ideas or suggestions for saving the > > Kauffman brewery, or if you'd like to do something to help. I was > > thinking that a $1 donation from CT members (and perhaps also from > > other organizations) could raise a very substantial sum of money and > > contribute to the stabilization of the building, thus saving it from > > demolition. Let me know what you think! > > > > Danny Klingler > > [email protected]
January 14, 200520 yr There has been a suggestion for condos. I say no. How about some actual market rate apartments? Or do we not do those anymore? Someone else mentioned that the building doesn't quite look so nice. Well, it doesn't. It's in disrepair and could use a lot of work. Removing the orange cladding along the ground floor would already improve it 80%. BTW...here's the pic from the auditor's website:[attachment deleted by admin]
January 14, 200520 yr The two biggest potential investors at this point are the Cincinnati > Black Theatre group, and Inktank. Both entities have expressed interest in a > collaborative investment, and Inktank would actually like to form a consortium > of non-profits to invest in the property and use it as shared administrative > space. If this is the place I remember INKTANK on main st. They get the $ from rent by selling junk from the homes of their attendees,it's a garage sale on final friday, I really don't think they have the $ to do anything.....
January 17, 200520 yr yeah...Inktank has sort of dropped out, it's now pretty much up to Cincy Black Theatre. But they are very serious about moving forward, and supposedly made a presentation at a council meeting this past week. Unfortunately the city is trying to get it demolished, even though the engineering report that just came out said the building could be saved. the demo hearing will be on January 24, for any of you who are interested. At this hearing they'll listen to testimony on why the building is historically significant, and as far as I know anyone is allowed to speak. I'll be writing a letter, since I'm living in Boston, but any of you in the Nati who want to contribute should show up and speak!
January 31, 200520 yr Late last night I happened to catch the council hearing on TV and they discussed the Kaufman brewery. One group, I didn't catch their name, claimed it would take $135,000 to preserve the place and they wanted another $100,000 to build some kind of complimentary building behind it. They also requested, at the very least, the city preserve the facade and the intricate stonework so that it might be resurrected at some point in the future. The hearing must've been old because they mentioned the final hearing would be on January 28 which was last Friday. Anyone know what happened?
January 31, 200520 yr I don't know what happened, but thanks for the info. Was the group you spoke of the Cincinnati Black Theatre Company?
January 31, 200520 yr I can't say for sure but I don't think so. I remember one was from the Cincinnati Preservation Society.
February 11, 200520 yr Update: After hearing a slew of testimony from residents and potential investors on why the Kauffman Brewery building should be saved, the Cincinnati Department of Buildings and Inspections nevertheless declared the building a public nuissance, to be demolished at public expense. This is why I have no faith in our city sometimes. Not sure when the demolition is scheduled for, if it has been scheduled....but it could still be appealed.
February 11, 200520 yr I still think if they replace it with something new it could be a blessing in disguise. It could jump start that part of OTR into a redevelopment frenzy. I don't mind new buildings in older areas if it helps convince devlopers to invest in the old buildings that are left in the area.
February 11, 200520 yr Cincinnati Department of Buildings and Inspections nevertheless declared the building a public nuissance I declare that Department of Buildings and Inspections are a public nuissance! This is a big part of cincinnatis and OTR history. They better at the very least save the facade! This city is making me rethink my continuing investment in the area. I know it costs $ but can't they hold on a little longer for a possible investor? It probably costs as much to demolish the building at tax payers expense than to shore up the foundation.
February 11, 200520 yr they could definitely hang on a little longer...no bricks have fallen or anything, so how can they claim imminent danger to the public?? Andrew -- the thing is there will be no new development on this parcel for a long time...it will not be a spark that starts a development frenzy. It will be one of the many vacant parcels that sits empty for years, while positive development slowly encroaches from the main st. area. For a developer to invest in a new property at the Kauffman site, which is pretty much a center of drug and crime activity, would be an INCREDIBLY risky investment.
February 11, 200520 yr Nah. The center of the drug scene is around Krogers and Smitty's Fine Clothes. I see it everyday driving to and from work.
February 11, 200520 yr ^ I would have to agree w/ dglenn about the likelihood of near-term development in that area. Most of the development seems to be along Main St., with small pockets around Washington Park and Findlay Market. On the whole, though, redevelopment near this location isn't even on the map.
February 12, 200520 yr Nah. The center of the drug scene is around Krogers and Smitty's Fine Clothes Actually Glenn is right. The Green street/vine corridor is a major drug corner and is one of the most dangerous places in OTR. I walk past smittys all the time, not nearly as bad. I won't walk upper vine north of liberty,near green.
March 3, 200520 yr UPDATE! From the 3/3/05 Enquirer: Stenger's Café block poses question in Over-the-Rhine By Maggie Downs Enquirer staff writer OVER-THE-RHINE - Anyone who has ever eaten a ham sandwich at the former Stenger's Café on Vine Street will remember the Kaufmann. The Kaufmann Building - a four-story Renaissance Revival-style landmark - was the looming presence across the street, taking up 1721 to 1725 Vine St. The interior included a three-story atrium with floors that filtered sunlight through glass-block floors. "It was worth going to Stenger's just to sit there and look at that building," said City Councilman Jim Tarbell. Now severely damaged by fire, weather and decay, the building has been declared a public nuisance by the Cincinnati Department of Buildings and Inspections. It likely will be demolished, though preservationists are hoping to keep at least part of the structure around. "It's not a priority for us, because it's not falling down yet," said Ron Thomas, assistant director of building inspections. "But I can't imagine it's too far from that." http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050303/NEWS01/503030338/1056/news01
March 3, 200520 yr thanks for the update... good to know that council can block a demo permit, didn't know that now as long as OTR's revitalization picks up a bit, we'll have a chance of saving this building
March 3, 200520 yr And thank goodness for Maggie Downs, the one person on the enquirer staff who represents urban interests
March 4, 200520 yr ^ Well, when she's not writing stupid stories on dating. I was floored when I noticed that the Enquirer picked up on this story. I was under the impression that very few cared.
March 16, 200520 yr Is this building still standing then? Does anyone have any pictures of the interior? C'mon... tease me.
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