I’m sorry, but I have to add my 2 bits here.  I have worked in the restaurant business for close to 30 years.  I have been in places that open after a series of dry runs and other than some MINOR tweaking, they operated as though they were open for years.  This is what should be the goal and the standard, not to open, piss off the clientele which is btw, paying full price for lousy food and service.  Add to that an unfinished atmosphere.  Wonderbar was open for 3 weeks when I stopped in.  The restrooms still had INDEX CARDS with “men” and “women” written on them and taped to the doors, along with another piece of paper scribbled with “restrooms” taped to the wall by the staircase leading down.  This attention to detail, or lack thereof, is pervasive in too many places.  If you are not ready to open – do not do it.  If Zocalo’s food and service is slipshod from the first day, what kind of message does that send?    If a restaurants attitude is that “we can make lots of mistakes because we are new” and people will understand – and still pay…  seriously, where else does that logic apply?  Would you pay top buck for a new car if their attitude was the same?  How about a new high-end hotel?  If the room isn’t finished, room service blows, the food is bad, and the wine list only has 10 percent of the wines listed available, but demands the going rate, do you just say “that’s OK, they just opened”?  How many “second chances” do you give a place that purposely opens when they ARE NOT READY???   I don’t buy it, and I am sure that has a lot to do with the dismal success rate of new places.  Customers should not be treated as guinea pigs, and nor should they accept it.  End of rant.

 

sadly TT you are 100% correct. I can see a server making a few stumbles out of the shoot or the kitchen being slow , but the food has to be good opening day, you make darn sure of it.  Truth be told, after I read you post, I started reflecting...do places ever get it together after a poor start? I cannot think of an example, here or anywhere I have lived.  so lets hope pope got the one crappy plate in the place, and that  everyones elses food was great.

I'm planning on dining at Zocalo this evening.  Hopefully, I'll have a positive experience to report since they've already been open for two weeks or so.

 

Also, if anyone cares...it sounds like La Strada plans to open before the end of this year (overheard conversation down the street...)  But I'm not keeping my fingers crossed yet.

Also, if anyone cares...it sounds like La Strada plans to open before the end of this year (overheard conversation down the street...)  But I'm not keeping my fingers crossed yet.

 

That'll be some trick- they still haven't done anything on that space yet.

 

I and several co-workers planned to go to Zocalo last night to check it out, have some drinks, etc.  But they were closed for a private party, they were just putting up the signs when we got there.  I thought "opening night" meant open to the public, but perhaps not.  Instead, we went to Wonder Bar, which I have to say was fantastic even though we were really early and nobody else was there yet.

 

We were a group of 7 and shared about 10 different dishes and didn't have one thing that was bad, and in fact several things were absolutely amazingly good.  I did notice the signs on the bathroom doors are paper but honestly, I couldn't care less if they are serving good food and delivering good service, which we got.

 

We went to Lola for a drink after Wonder Bar and sat in the seats next to the window that faces 4th street and watched literally dozens of people being turned away because they weren't "on the list."  At least the other businesses got some additional revenue yesterday.

 

I've now heard from 3 people that the food at Zocalo is a) overpriced, particularly for the portion you receive and b) not very good, and that service is VERY slow.  Any place that has a giant tequila selection is one I want to try, but the reports I've heard coupled with being turned away last night left a bad taste in my mouth.  Thankfully that taste was gone with all the eats we got at Wonder Bar.  Particularly great were the polenta with mozz and capicola and the feta/tomato/olive dishes.

I did notice the signs on the bathroom doors are paper but honestly, I couldn't care less if they are serving good food and delivering good service, which we got.

 

Exactly. I was there a couple of weeks ago and enjoyed it very much. To say I wouldn't return because of paper signs is just ridicules. So the bar should have been closed for the past month because the restroom signs didn't arrive on time?  :roll:

Sorry you got turned away at Zocalo's, but it happens.  If someone tells a restauranteer that they want to "buy out" the whole restaurant, at least on a night that is likely to be slow, then they most likely are going to do it.  It isn't, nor should it be taken as, a slight of any sort to other customers.  Glad you had a good time at Wonder Bar.

I know, that's totally fine of course, I just didn't expect it on "opening night."

They've been open for a couple of weeks.  Were they advertising that as the Grand Opening or something?

I thought so.  I read in the PD that they were opening on the 6th:

 

Zocalo Mexican Grill & Tequileria joins Cleveland's East Fourth Street lineup

Wednesday, August 08, 2007

Bill Lubinger

Plain Dealer Columnist

 

Tequila lovers, mark it down.

 

Zocalo Mexican Grill & Tequileria debuts on East Fourth Street in downtown Cleveland on Thursday, Sept. 6. And it arrives with the mindset of a Tequilas-R-Us.

 

Management promises a choice of 85 tequilas, tequila flights, upside-down margaritas, a tasting room and tequila experts along the lines of agave sommeliers to guide you. Tequila will also drive many of the menu's marinades.

 

Zocalo will also offer tableside guacamole and a fresh tortilla-maker.

 

Sounds like a "grand opening" to me, but I think you said it best - you now have so many options on that street (with more to come). Welcome to the forum, btw :-)

I'm planning on taking the lady to Zocalo tonight; I'm a huge Mexican fan and was really excited when this place was announced. After hearing some of the reviews, I'm a little gun-shy. Maybe we'll just grab a drink there.

Look for my report tommorrow.

 

Go Canes! Beat the Sooners!

thx for the welcome. I've been lurking for months but finally wanted to post re: wonder bar.

 

Does anyone know what "black finn" is supposed to be that's opening on the SW corner of Euclid & 4th?  Or what the progress is on the pizza place?

I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be something Irish-pub-ish... but more Claddagh than Flannerys.

Ahh, I see.  That is strange.  I wonder if there was a mistake somewhere along the way.  Almost the same thing happened to Wonder Bar, where you ended up (pretty ironic).  A date for their grand opening was announced, but it was the wrong date, and it was only a private party for friends and family.

 

And btw, welcome to the board!

I bet that was a PD screw up too.  I should know better than to expect true/reliable news from them.  :-)

I did notice the signs on the bathroom doors are paper but honestly, I couldn't care less if they are serving good food and delivering good service, which we got.

 

Exactly. I was there a couple of weeks ago and enjoyed it very much. To say I wouldn't return because of paper signs is just ridicules. So the bar should have been closed for the past month because the restroom signs didn't arrive on time?  :roll:

 

Excuse me, but where does it say that I will not return because of paper signs?  Where?  The point is that this is yet another example of lack of attention to detail prior to opening. Not a HUGE thing, but really... still there??? There are 5 restaurant supply houses within 5 miles of downtown.  I assure you, they have signs of all types, including "mens" and "ladies".    I am glad to hear that the food is innovative and well executed, given the limitations of the kitchen. 

^there are thousands of ways you could put up temporary restroom signs.  The fact that they choose scribbling down on a piece of paper, and letting that paper hang up there for a few weeks shows they lack the attention to detail in order to succeed.

 

I have worked in dozens of bars and restaurants, and have seen hundreds come and go.  Something like what was described is a huge red flag. 

 

I went to Zocalo for lunch on Friday and the food was good, but the service was extremely slow and the portions were small considering the price.

It shouldn't take 30 minutes to make a taco and what kind of restaurant runs out of silverware? When I was seated they told me they were running short on silverware and I had to wait about 20 minutes for it.

I think you guys are a little nitpick-y on Zocalo.  Are there things it can fix?  Sure, but gosh guys, give them a break; they've been open for, what, 2 weeks?  I thought the appetizers and Taco soup was pretty good; my SO had a Margarita she really liked.

 

As for the alleged cheap signage on the front: did it ever occur to you they may be mimicking the signage of Mex restaurants and taco stands of the Southwest?  I think its kind of funky in its simplistic way, esp given the pastel colors... Also, I love the interior; its beautifully done with the pit/atrium and circular stairway to the lower level.  I like the loud colors and chandeliers.  Plus we haven't had in downtown Cleveland, the concept of an open slide-back/folding front window addressing the street where people can sit which spills over to an open patio.  That, plus the interior sucks people in off the street.  Most importantly: its a place where people appear to be having fun.  That aspect really draws folks in...

 

OK, I noticed the paper signs for the bathrooms but come on, I'm stunned you guys have got your knickers all twisted in a knot over this... ITS NEW PEOPLE... Give them time to breathe... Can't you, at least appreciate a lively, new fun looking place that's energizing its corner of downown Cleveland?

 

It's so typically Cleveland to get something nice and, then, run it into the ground... isn't that, in part, why the Flats was destroyed?

 

...anyway...

 

... Let me add that I like Zocalo's long/late hours.  I hope they keep it up.  I don't understand why some downtown joints (Cleveland Chophouse) shudder early while places around them, like Zocalo and Flannery's, stay open to a buzzing business.

^Why can't somebody have an opinion about something, good or bad, without it being "so Cleveland".  Such a statement is just a childish debate technique.  People in other cities state there opinions freely about similar topics and don't think twice that they are allegedly doing damage to their city as a whole.

I went to Zocalo for lunch on Friday and the food was good, but the service was extremely slow and the portions were small considering the price.

It shouldn't take 30 minutes to make a taco and what kind of restaurant runs out of silverware? When I was seated they told me they were running short on silverware and I had to wait about 20 minutes for it.

 

I've worked in restaurants for quite some time, so let me clear up a few misconceptions:

 

All restaurants run out of silverware occasionally, in fact, if you go into a restaurant at peak times, when they are slammed, odds are they are out of or are nearly out of silverware.  They will do there best to catch up, you probably won't notice.  Did you get your silverware before your meal?

 

30 minutes is indeed too long for a taco, even during lunch rush (which, incidentally, for those of you on a tight schedule slows down service a great deal because surprise, your not the only one in the restaurant- go to lunch late or early for faster service) .  In fact 30 minutes for anything is damned near unheard of.  I have to ask if you really timed it at 30 minutes or are you guestimating?  Customers usually overstate how long they waited for things by anywhere up to 100%.  When you say something, they won't tell you how long it actually took, even though they know.  They'll just validate your complaint and try to appease you.

 

Zocolo's signage and storefront are indeed intended to look like a real Mexican Tequieria.  I don't know what that looks like, though.  Maybe cheap.

I can understand being backed up with food orders but a restaurant should never run out of silverware. We used to run out of silverware nonstop during peak hours but it had more to do with management incompetence than anything else. We would also run out of menus because the manager was too lazy to call the owners and tell them to order more silverware and menus. Restaurants should be proactive when it comes to that stuff.

 

I do get annoyed by comments about "slow service"; it's not usually the server's fault if you get your meal late. Servers and cooks are usually working non-stop, it's just that they get hit with a lot of orders at once sometimes.

^Why can't somebody have an opinion about something, good or bad, without it being "so Cleveland".  Such a statement is just a childish debate technique.  People in other cities state there opinions freely about similar topics and don't think twice that they are allegedly doing damage to their city as a whole.

 

It's no "debate technique"; and you're the one who's usually "childish" and argumentative.  Grow up Htsguy... Maybe if you lived somewhere else and experienced something positive, you'd understand why its so tiresome, and why I get tired of people always tearing what's good about Cleveland down so often.

kids, consider yourself both warned for personal attacks.

"It's so typically Cleveland to get something nice and, then, run it into the ground... isn't that, in part, why the Flats was destroyed?"

 

Dude, chill out.  Being critical doesn't drive something into the ground.  People dying and thugs are far more negative.

That and developers buying up large sections of a neighborhood and running it into the ground so they can get a blight designation and redevelop it.

The Bang and Clatter brings its noise to Cleveland

Sunday, September 09, 2007

Tony Brown

 

Page 3 of 3

 

Sometimes in the Silence

All shows at 210 Euclid Ave., Cleveland. Tickets: $15. Shows open on the first Friday and close the final Saturday. Performances are at 8 p.m. Mondays and Wednesdays-Saturdays, 3 p.m. Sundays.

 

Feb. 1-March 1: "Blackbird." The Bang brings to Cleveland an Akron hit by Rapp about a pair of drifters squatting in a New York tenement.

 

March 14-April 12: "This Is How It Goes." More "darkness" from LaBute.

 

April 25-May 24: "Dougie's Machinery." A new play by Cleveland writer Cliff Hershman.

 

June 6-July 5: "The God of Hell." An "unsettling scenario of surreal doom," according to the New Yorker magazine, from Sam Shepard.

 

July 18-Aug. 16: "On the Line." A tough play about a factory strike in New Jersey, by Joe Roland.

 

Aug. 29-Sept. 27, 2008: "The Lieutenant of Inishmore." The Ohio premiere of Martin McDonagh's dark Broadway comedy about the Irish Republican Army is "Reservoir Dogs" with a brogue.

 

Oct. 10-12, 2008: "The Legendary." A new-works festival.

 

Oct. 17-Nov. 15, 2008: "White People." A corrosive, confessional play by J.T. Rogers.

 

Nov. 28-Dec. 27, 2008: "Blasted." A first play, by Sarah Kane, that has been both lambasted as filth and considered a contemporary classic.

 

 

^I am sorry Pope but I do have to respond to ClvIndr's post.  While this is obviously only my personal opinion I have to take exception to your assertion that my posts are "childish and argumentative".  Ok so maybe childish is in the eye of the beholder and is subjective, but I am rarely argumentative (just on occasion) and especially compared to most posters.  It is clear you really have not read many of my post and were in the mood for a quick cheap shot.  I go out of my way to be polite to other posters (often self editing myself) and I will note the fact if I am not an expert on a particular subject I am commenting upon.  Most of my posts "ask questions" or provide "information" and I tend to avoid "debates", although sometimes I will make a quick zinger (which is very common on this board) in connection with institution or third party public figure (my favorite is of course Kassouf).  I don't attack fellow posters and certainly would never tell anybody to "grow up". Again, my opinion, but I think I am one of the more respectful posters on this board and it is again clear that you really don't know much about me or are familiar with the majority of my posts .

 

My post was more about free speech than Cleveland.  I am huge supporter of the city and love it dearly.  I have BEEN AROUND and don't have an inferior complex about my city like many people do.  Nuff said.

Htsguy,

 

You're fine, I was worried it was going to become an attack-fest between the two of you.

 

With that being said back on topic.

Good to hear Bang&Clatter is still planning on coming.  I hadn't heard anything in a while, and was getting worried.

"It's so typically Cleveland to get something nice and, then, run it into the ground... isn't that, in part, why the Flats was destroyed?"

 

Dude, chill out.  Being critical doesn't drive something into the ground.  People dying and thugs are far more negative.

 

That's obviously true.  I deal with this "hard stuff" every day and UO is an escape for me, and I take it as such...

 

Yes, I can harsh about some opinions here.  Was it Santayana who said something like: those who fail to recognize history are bound to repeat it?  I’ve taken 1st time visitors to such places as Tower City and the Flats before it, among other things.  Yet, often (not always, but too often), we Clevelanders tend to heap negativity on places and things most non-Clevelanders find positive.  For example, UOers – a more enlightened urban lot over most Clevelanders -- are nevertheless generally negative to Tower City.  I’ve heard it compared to Randall Mall and some make the place sound like a glorified flea market.  In the case of the Flats, we completely destroyed the East Bank, and much of the West Bank, leading to the “remake” efforts now underway.  I say we b/c we spread the word the Flats was bad and word-of-mouth kept people away.  We had a national treasure unique to Cleveland that we destroyed which could have been avoided ... Baltimore’s faddish, plastic Inner Harbor went into decline in the late 80s early 90s.  And yet, the City refocused new activities on the IH (ie: more kid/family oriented stuff, like paddle boats and, then, opened a network of harbor water taxis to exciting Fells Point.  Somehow, if the IH was in Cleveland I fear we would’ve bad-mouthed the place into oblivion and, then, convinced ourselves its death was “inevitable” – we Clevelanders, too often, are quick to rationalize our failures.

 

My out-of-town friends who are open to this town are frequently surprised by the pervasive negativity here.  Maybe I overreacted, a tad, to the negative comments about Zocalo, but it felt like more of the same.  All I say is: give the place a chance before everybody piles on with negativity toward the place.  Like Tower City, on a different level of course, it may have problems, but its existence far outweighs it having never existed.  If this town didn’t have such a ton going for it, I’d have left long ago and wouldn’t even bother with websites like UO; but we do have issues we need to be mindful of…

 

As this site is more influential than some realize – note the recent sign on by RTA’s Jerry Masek – we need to be cognizant of what we say esp about retail establishments that rise and fall by consumer sentiment or the lack thereof.

 

For what it's worth, the bathroom signs at Wonder Bar aren't pieces of notebook paper with someone's scribbling on them.  They're printed out on colored paper.  It's not a formal sign, but it's not as haphazard as "scribbling" implies. 

Well, I am/was excited to hear about Zocalos, but (based upon some of the comments above) I guess I am going to wait a few weeks in hopes that they get the kinks worked out.  The thing that worries me the most is the statements about the food....ok, service slow due to understanding new menus and so forth ok, but you can't sacrafice quality. 

 

I've gone to the House of Cues in the warehouse district for years and their Mexican Food is fantastic.  I have walked by Zocalos and they definetly have the mexican flare.  Where as House of Cues doesn't have any mexican restaurant feel to it, but its like one of those places where you never expect anything good and you end up extremely impressed.

 

I'll check back to see how everyone elses experience was and then let you know how mine went.

 

FuninCle,

 

Welcome to UO!

Welcome indeed! I have a question about House of Cues... they used to have a Luchita's (in or part of the place), but that's no longer the case. I've *heard* they still have Mexican food but I presume it's still decent?

I had enchiladas suizas there about a year ago, they were excellent.

 

In other news:

 

Some of the tubs for the apts above The Corner Alley went in today.  I asked the workers, and they said that they are still 8 months away, which is a long time, but at least they are coming along.  There are going to be 66 units.  I'm guessing rental because they are installing standard fixtures- on condos they would probably be custom.

I'm guessing it's also a matter of historic preservation credits and their stipulation of "must be rentals for so many years". I'm paraphrasing of course...

House of Cues chimichunga=incredible.

Thanks for the greetings everyone!  Look forward to sharing.

 

As to the one question from mayday, the first time I went to House of Cues about 2 years ago, I thought I was going to Luchitas (since you are correct, it was there).  The staff reassured me that the food was just as good or better.  (Of course they are going to say that).  But i was very very pleased and have been everytime I've gone.  I asked the manager and he said that they have a mexican chef that is responsible for all authentic sauces and so forth.

 

Anyway, are there any plans for a East 4th festival, simlar to west sixth?  Probably next summer?

Thank you for the info - now I'll have to see if they have empanadas (and set aside extra time on the elliptical!).

I noticed that it looks like some work has been done on the site that the Vietnamese restaurant will be going into- demo, mostly, but also the steel frame studwork is in.

I noticed that it looks like some work has been done on the site that the Vietnamese restaurant will be going into- demo, mostly, but also the steel frame studwork is in.

 

where will it be located?

The two storefronts between the East 4th offices and Zocalo.  They are combined into one space.

Always something in the works over there!  It's hard to believe that someday, they'll be all done and move on to the next big project...

 

I'm happy to hear about the units over Corner Alley.  I didn't realize there'd be so many!  What are there now?  200 or so?  My experience has been that they're always within one or two units of being 100% occupied.  66 new units should add more energy and should fill up quickly!  Especially as they should be opening right around when the ECTP is about to start operations...

Currently there are 173 units.  They are adding 66 above The Corner Alley, and 5 units are being added above The Wonder Bar by a seperate developer.  That will account for all the potential apt space on the street.  So that works out to 244 units when the whole block is done.

very nice.  And the 5 units above Wonder Bar are the only for-sale units at the present time, correct?

very nice.  And the 5 units above Wonder Bar are the only for-sale units at the present time, correct?

 

i don't think the 173 number includes the 12 or so for sale units in the Sincere Building at e4 and Prospect.

^sure seems like there would be demand for some neighborhood retail.

very nice.  And the 5 units above Wonder Bar are the only for-sale units at the present time, correct?

 

yup.

 

very nice.  And the 5 units above Wonder Bar are the only for-sale units at the present time, correct?

 

i don't think the 173 number includes the 12 or so for sale units in the Sincere Building at e4 and Prospect.

 

You sir, may be right.  I pulled the 173 out of my notes, and am not sure what the original source was.

 

^sure seems like there would be demand for some neighborhood retail.

 

There is some demand.  Enough for neighborhood oriented retail to make a go of it?  I still kind of doubt it.  It'd be interesting to see the market size requirements that various businesses require.  I remember two though from some time ago- roughly a population of 15,000 for a convenient store, 25,000 for a full service grocery, with some variability for income level.