I have a few friends who are looking in the $300,000-$400,000 range.  Out of where they have looked downtown, I honestly don't see it as too bad of a price range--not to mention the work, time, and money Cicerchi put into them...I wonder what profit he'd even be making anyway.?

For that amount, I'd want more windows, a more steely kitchen and some added perks.

I have a few friends who are looking in the $300,000-$400,000 range.  Out of where they have looked downtown, I honestly don't see it as too bad of a price range--not to mention the work, time, and money Cicerchi put into them...I wonder what profit he'd even be making anyway.?

 

To me those units fall flat, in terms of amenities, in unit features, compared to the units they are priced against at the Pinnacle, Stonebridge and The Avenue district.

For that amount, I'd want more windows, a more steely kitchen and some added perks.

 

Exactly.  The "kitchen" doesn't have a pantry or double oven.  An Expectation at that price point.

I find double ovens to be overrated.  They are usually too small to fit big pans in such as a turkey roaster. 

about the lofts. say what you will about whether you need or should have a car downtown-other places at that price point have indoor parking. I expect those prices to be adjusted. Also- I hate carpet-how much is in there? The size is pretty decent I guess. As far as condo fees-low fees are always a lure. every place raises them fairly quickly. I would completely disregrad low condo fees in my decision making of any place being sold by a developer.

Well if no one buys them they will have no choice but to accept lower offers. Real estate is only worth what people are willing to pay.

about the lofts. say what you will about whether you need or should have a car downtown-other places at that price point have indoor parking. I expect those prices to be adjusted. Also- I hate carpet-how much is in there? The size is pretty decent I guess. As far as condo fees-low fees are always a lure. every place raises them fairly quickly. I would completely disregrad low condo fees in my decision making of any place being sold by a developer.

 

I didn't even think about that!  another minus.  I'm sorry 1,800 sq.ft for 425k is crazy for what they are offering based on the pictures/website.

 

Also are there any in building amenities?? Club floor, movie/community room, pool, spa, gym, etc????

 

Those prices will need to come down $120-150k

^one thing that they do have going for them--they are the only for-sale units on the market on E.4th (Sincere is all sold).

they'll get 400k. it's not that far out of the price range of everything else in that area. Sincere was listing at 270-300, and that was 4 years ago when there was only pickwick, flannery's, and the thought of house of blues.  Plus I toured this unit in the fall (it was only roughed out at the time), it feels significantly larger than those pictures lead on, and there is plenty of storage areas.  I remember thinking what an unbelievably unique space it was, and the view sitting overtop of 4th with a lively crowd below was really cool.  People can pick apart all the things they don't like about this model... but they'll get the $$$$. There are only 4 units. Of course when i win the mega millions Friday and am looking to drop my 400k-1m, I am marching right around the corner to the park building.

The building itself in incredible.  I'm not that surprised by the price even though I dislike the way it is built out.  Original fire escape out front, large windows, probably 12' ceilings, bar on the first floor.  If you're worried about freaking parking, walk a half a block.  I'd take this over Stonebridge and Pinnacle any day of the week.

^not to mention they still have the orginal elevator in the building, everything about the space is unique.

would either of you, buy a unit, as is, right now?  "yes" or "no"?

Only 14 condos for sale in 44114? Maybe they can get what they are asking.

For the record, the person who used the photo has apologized and will be making appropriate amends :-)

 

Can I rent at a discount your $425K condo you just received?

I said appropriate amends, not amends involving choice real estate ;-)

^^^^  If i was looking to spend 400k, Yes. I would buy that unit.  You are failing to recognize, that the unit you see in the photos is not located in shaker square (I can now see MTS's face turning various shades of red while hunting down the nearest espresso and screaming profanity :roll:)... It is in a beautiful old building with a tremendous amount of character. It has a jazz bar underneath, it is flanked by Michael Symon's restaurant and soon to be Michael Symon's lounge. Out your front window you look upon maybe the most vibrant and yet quaint street in the entire city. You are footsteps from the new Euclid corridor transit system... 4 blocks to access to any train line... and development is taking place all around you.  And this place undoubtedly offers a level of intimacy to city living that doesn't exist anywhere else in Cleveland. This is the type of place other "big" cities have in abundance.  The only place I can even think that is comparable here is Joshua Hall... but that looks out on a fairly lifeless prospect.  The money is buying a lot more than the "unit".  And they don't need to find 200 people with money to feel the way I do... they need 4. And they'll find them...

 

On a side note as far as I am concernd their biggest problem is that they must have allowed the same individual who designed that attrocious web site to set up the interior.  For god's sake pick out a color scheme, and try to make it look like you didn't furnish it after spending 20 minutes in target.

It's that whole non-committal tuscan/craftsman/earthtone/keepitneutralsowedon'tputofftheBainbridgecrowd look. Mind you, I've seen worse, but yeah for what they're asking, they could jazz it up a little.

the stark white walls everywhere kill me. and the lighting choices are just awful... but i'm telling you the pictures do zero justice to the "space". I don't think they'll have any problems fetching their price.

the stark white walls everywhere kill me. and the lighting choices are just awful... but i'm telling you the pictures do zero justice to the "space". I don't think they'll have any problems fetching their price.

 

If they get that price, God bless them.  I just cant see it.  In addition to my other gripes, the French Doors in the living room bother me a lot.

I agree with the girls on this. The whole cheap earthtone thing does not work. What are they thinking? make it raw and clean (think those erie view lofts) . Not this dark wood, dark granite heavy fireplace, beige blech thing. You DO have location, location, location, but why the cheap looking circa 1997 breakfast bar?

^^^^  If i was looking to spend 400k, Yes. I would buy that unit.  You are failing to recognize, that the unit you see in the photos is not located in shaker square (I can now see MTS's face turning various shades of red while hunting down the nearest espresso and screaming profanity :roll:)...

 

I agree with the girls on this.

 

You people are wonderful!

For the record, I wouldn't pay $425 to live there either.

 

However, as an avid HGTV watcher, I wouldn't pay anything near what some of the places are going for in other cities (DC, NYC, Chicago, etc).  I saw a House Hunters in Maui last night and they paid $1 million+ for a 2700 sq ft house that needed susbstantial upgrades.  I know, that's what the market commands, but my point is its not worth living in Maui (or city X) if that's what I have to pay...but paying that price is worth it to some people, which is probably what will happen here.

 

I mean, the exact same unit 2 floors up from me is listed for $40k more than what I paid for mine.  Their view of the lake is blocked by the bridge (whereas mine you can see under it) and our downtown views are the same.  Despite this, someone will pay more to simply be "2 floors higher".  So hey, to each his own.

would either of you, buy a unit, as is, right now?  "yes" or "no"?

 

Yes, and I would rip out everything for a clean slate.

For the record, I wouldn't pay $425 to live there either.

 

However, as an avid HGTV watcher, I wouldn't pay anything near what some of the places are going for in other cities (DC, NYC, Chicago, etc).  I saw a House Hunters in Maui last night and they paid $1 million+ for a 2700 sq ft house that needed susbstantial upgrades.  I know, that's what the market commands, but my point is its not worth living in Maui (or city X) if that's what I have to pay...but paying that price is worth it to some people, which is probably what will happen here.

 

I mean, the exact same unit 2 floors up from me is listed for $40k more than what I paid for mine.  Their view of the lake is blocked by the bridge (whereas mine you can see under it) and our downtown views are the same.  Despite this, someone will pay more to simply be "2 floors higher".  So hey, to each his own.

 

I think downtown is coming along and the price points are good.  However, the 425k is crazy.  Once Euclid, Prospect or Huron HAVE everyday needs and the major retailers are in place.  Then I see the price points from Public Square to East 18 to crazy!

 

In regard to your points in NYC, then you'll be a life long renter, unless you want to live in an area of the city with little transportation, amentites and you'll need a car to do everything.   In NYC that is what the market commands.  I paid 4-and change for shell and was in a bidding war with four other party's.

 

However, to you credit, you sound EXACTLY like my father.  He constantly says, "I can' believe that damn row house is more than my damn home!  No yard, no privacy, no parking and all those damn people living on top of one-another.  I know it's NYC but just makes no d*man sense!"

 

Keep in mind, homes similar in size to mine and in the same condition as mine when I bought are today selling for 1.5-1.75 million - 7 years later. 

I love what they're doing w/ E. 4th, and the location and unit amenities (granite tops, stainless steel, fireplace, yadda, yadda) and size (1800 sq ft) are nice, but comparatively speaking, $425K seems a tad high.  For one thing, the view can't be all that great.  I'd like looking down on 4th St, but really, its so narrow it might seem claustrophobic.  No lake/river views, no sweeping downtown panorama -- this building's too short for that ... yes, in NYC realtors can get away with this, but in Cleveland?

 

Plus, I'm a little surprised the windows weren't removed and expanded (although, maybe historic pres considerations were at issue).  Those little windows in the “great room” are a turnoff.  I demand lots of natural light in my homes  ... Also, as great as this location is entertainment, restaurant and transit-wise, there's no grocery store in the immediate area in easy walking distance -- one must get to Reserve Sq or Constantino's -- which, though very nice, is pretty expensive.  And then there's the old downtown bugaboo of lack of major retail.  Unless Tower City, 4 blocks away meets your needs, well...

 

Compare Pinnacle, an all new building which has many of the things I mention as lacking in the Krause (Wonder Bar) Building.  What are they charging for comp-sized units?  What about Sincere across the street or the Park Building on Public Sq?

 

$425 to me seems pricey, considering no building amenities, ?parking?, no balcony/deck, no mention of rooftop lounge or deck, and a lackluster layout - that great room is more of a bowling alley at 13 x 38 - if you try to separate/define it, you lose all natural light deeper within the unit.

I want a great room that doubles as a bowling alley.

Like in "There Will Be Blood"?

As over the top as I can be with home decor & design, I still don't see how 425k is going to fly with no doorman, white glove services, no true master suite, top of the line appliances or amenities.  I hope they sell out, so I can be wrong.

$425g is ridiculously high but considering the demand for E4 rental housing, I'm sure they'll sell. 

 

Saigon has its Grand Opening on Thursday.

^ Open to the public? Or one of those private grand openings?

I also peered into the Bang and Clatter space. They've made a lot of interior progress. Just one month it seemed to be just an empty shell.

Yeah, I too peeked in there today. It looked like most of the studs are up.

I thought BNC was open already and having performances?

Yeah, there are a lot of studs performing there.  :-P

^ Open to the public? Or one of those private grand openings?

 

I don't know for sure, but I got the news off of a sign in the window, so I'm guessing public.

I thought BNC was open already and having performances?

 

BNC started in Akron and will continue there, along with their new, 2nd location downtown Clevleland. The Akron space is where their current performances are.

Saigon opens Thursday. The space looks real good, hopefully they'll have signage that looks nothing like Zocalo's.

Woohoo!!! Pho for the winter!

I talked to the people who own #1 Pho and Saigon last night.  I discovered that a couple of months ago they opened another #1 Pho location about 5 minutes from where I live! (middleburg hts)  I happened to drive by it the other day and so stopped by to pick up take-out.  Ended up talking to the owner/manager, really nice guy.  I asked if they were the same folks that owned the location downtown on Superior and he said yes and then mentioned Saigon on E 4th.  I was all excited and said how many people I know have been excitedly waiting for them to open and he went and got me a cup of tea while I waited and showed me some pictures of the food.  He and the lone waitress (it was pretty slow there, only one table when I arrived and they were on their way out) were really jazzed about the new location and said the interior is really beautiful and they hate how long it's been delayed but they're looking forward to it opening.  They really couldn't have been nicer and practically made me feel like a member of the family. 

 

So I wanted to spread the news about the location on Sprague, I think it's probably North Royalton, it's at Sprague and 130th, in case anyone is over that way, and to suggest that maybe once they get their legs under them and they aren't slammed every day like new places tend to be, we can plan an U.O. lunch at Saigon.

From this week's Free Times

---

 

Breaking The Silence

Akron Theater Bangs And Clatters Toward Opening A Branch In Cleveland

By Michael Gill

UNDER CONSTRUCTION: The old Cole Shoe building, 224 Euclid Ave.

 

Three doors down from the House of Blues, cordoned off by the Euclid Corridor's maze of orange barrels and plastic mesh fence, a construction crew is hammering out the shape of a new downtown theater. Peek in the door of the long, narrow storefront, and they are hanging drywall on a frame of metal studs. Just nine days after this newspaper hits the streets, Northeast Ohio's most daring and even reckless entrepreneurs of the stage, Bang and the Clatter's Sean Derry and Sean McConaha, plan to open their second venue, which they'll call Sometimes in the Silence. They're doing it just a little more than two years after opening their first theater. It's the kind of growth you might expect from a coffee shop or a burger joint, but certainly not from a nonprofit theater - especially one that puts on shows never before seen in Ohio, a state that goes (according to the conventional wisdom) for the tried and true. Unless, of course, they're serving free beer, as these guys do.

 

It's difficult not to marvel at the ambition and chutzpah that drives Derry and McConaha. They were both married with children when they decided to launch a theater, which they hoped would become their way of making a living. People who struggle to keep their established, mainstream theaters from falling too deep into the red will be the ones who marvel the most at this. But the Seans' story gets weirder and weirder. Their plan has been to produce all Ohio premiere works - eight of them per year, with no reliable cash cows - and to do it year round, without an off season to catch their breath. Their Cleveland venue will host annual seasons of eight more shows, without repeats - at least not many.

 

"The more we work," Derry said in an interview a year ago, "the more money we make."

 

So, while the more common path for nonprofit theaters hurting for money is to cut productions out of the schedule, they pile on the shows.

 

"I grew up thinking I'm not going to amount to much, the only thing is graduate high school and get a factory job and pop out some kids and die," Derry said last week. "I grew up thinking I don't want to live like this. I was fortunate enough to get out and find something that made me feel like I was accomplishing something, that there was something to say. When I found I had some talent I went for it. I went to NY and trained and LA and got married, had kids. I finally decided, put up or shut up. Get busy living or get busy dying. That's how Sean and I got started with this thing."

 

So Bang and the Clatter was born. It was about a year ago - just as they were starting to pay rent after having incubated rent-free for a year at Summit Artspace in downtown Akron - that they publicly announced plans for a second venue in Cleveland. At first they were planning to raise $500,000 for the project. They had a fundraiser last summer, but the plan is to secure most of the money from grants and donations "from people who believe in what [they're] doing." So far they have a $250,000 loan from the city of Cleveland, and several grant proposals out to local foundations, Derry said. Their fundraising goal - the budget for the Cleveland project - has grown to $700,000.

 

The Cleveland space, at 224 Euclid, will be a long, narrow room equipped with a flexible configuration of portable risers so that seating can face a traditional proscenium (which would be built as part of a set) or surround a thrust stage, or flank a stage on two sides, like the audience for a tennis match - which is the arrangement for their first production, Adam Rapp's Blackbird, scheduled to open next Friday, Feb. 29. The flexible arrangement allows for a maximum of 150 seats - a number Derry says they don't want to exceed, for the sake of intimacy.

 

Blackbird - the company's opening production in Akron a little more than two years ago, directed again in Cleveland by Sean McConaha - is a love story, Derry says, "about two people who have nothing going in their lives except their love for each other." The main character, Baylis (played by Derry), is a Gulf War vet and recovering heroin addict who lives with a 19-year-old former prostitute and stripper (played by Alanna Romansky) who takes care of him. It's Christmas Eve. They live in a one-room squat, above a bar in New York. Throughout the show, a blackbird representing death pecks at the glass window.

 

Derry will build the set, but he can't start until the contractors are finished with the interior of the new space. He expects to have a week to work on it, including the construction of a real brick wall. A light board and sound system have been ordered. Electrical crews are due to make connections this week. Even as opening day looms, Derry is not concerned.

 

It's reasonable to wonder how they keep all this together. The truth is, it hasn't gone off without a hitch. Last season in Akron, a show was taken out of the schedule and moved when - what else? - Derry took on a movie role. The Cleveland theater was originally slated to open Feb. 1. Their Web site has been "under construction" for months. A media walk-through of the new space is supposed to happen just before the opening, but no official announcement had been made yet at press time. And during the last two years of burning the candle at both ends, both men got divorced.

 

The Seans have become accustomed to this kind of pressure and pace. For them, having a professional contractor do their remodeling (MRN Ltd., the developer for East Fourth Street) feels luxurious. So if all goes as planned, Cleveland will have a new theater next Friday.

 

As Derry says, "If this fails it's going to fail bigger than everyone has ever failed before, and I'm OK with that. What's there to be nervous about?"

 

 

It's kind of strange... the show opens in a little more than a week, and I haven't seen any info on how to buy tickets.

It's probably door only. 

^ They are door only sales.

serving free beer

 

Is it free Eliot Ness or free Natty Ice..or free something in between?

Nice, seems like this area is getting better and better. 

Construction delays are causing a delay to opening of Bang & Clatter.  Hope they get it fixed in time for the re-scheduled opening:

http://www.cleveland.com/arts/index.ssf/2008/02/bang_and_clatter_delays_clevel.html