I discovered that a couple of months ago they opened another #1 Pho location about 5 minutes from where I live! (middleburg hts) 

This good info. I hate being stuck in burbs for work w/no place to eat. I think they will do well, as I am suprised what a broad range of people love #1 Pho. I would love an UO lunch there (DT of course) sometime

Gov. Strickland will be at Corner Alley tonight after the debate according to Channel 3....VIP room though they said

Construction delays are causing a delay to opening of Bang & Clatter.  Hope they get it fixed in time for the re-scheduled opening:

http://www.cleveland.com/arts/index.ssf/2008/02/bang_and_clatter_delays_clevel.html

 

Also, the plywood "tent" needed to do facade work has finally gone up around the front of the building.  That is a good sign, at least.

Bang and Clatter delays Cleveland opening

by Tony Brown/Plain Dealer Theater Critic

Friday February 22, 2008, 1:22 PM

 

Construction delays have forced Akron's the Bang and the Clatter Theatre Company to push back the opening production of its new downtown Cleveland performance space, at 224 Euclid Ave., from Friday, Feb. 29 to Friday, March 14.

 

The company, which specializes in new, in-your-face theater, is in the midst of a $700,000 renovation of a former shoe store in the East Fourth Street entertainment district. It will operate there and in Akron.

 

The opening production of the Cleveland branch of Bang and Clatter is "Blackbird" by Adam Rapp. For details, call 330-606-5317.

thanks blinky, but you're a day late and a dollar short with that news.  :wink:

So I just went through the Gateway Design review and we had the following items on the agenda.  A new vertical protruding sign is set to be added to the valet stand on 4th.  It is kind of a swooping arrow with annimated neon.  Mainly black with VALET in white neon and the arrow lined with blue neon...  I find it kind of reminiscent of 50's drive in movie type sign.  That falling appart crappy Fredrick at 4th sign is being redone.  Nothing thrilling... but nice.  Deep Navy storefront (to mimic the awnings that lead to all the other residential on the street). With stand off letters.  Not illuminated, but a significant upgrade over the weathered peeling paint plywood there now.  The new vertical protruding sign for saigon is phenomenal.  I'm not even really sure how to describe it, so I won't try, but it's really eye catching.  I can say it is mainly brushed aluminum, and illuminated from the inside.  The storefront signage still needs some work, and they are going to get some proposed revisions to us before next week.  I just love the way this street is coming together from a signage point of view.  A lot of unique and interesting signage that seem to come together well to provide some level of vibrancy and excitement all on it's own.  Also, I know that Zocalo is coming back with new signage in the near future so we don't have to worry about the painted plywood being up there forever...  With no setbacks I would expect to start seeing these elements this spring.

About time the Valet gets better signage.  People miss it all the time.  And drunks smack or knock over the stand signs, creating loud metallic bangs in the middle of the night.  Hopefully those will go away when the protuding sign gets put up.

I had to explain to someone yesterday where it was while they were at the intersection of prospect and 4th... the lighted projection sign on the wall of the commercial building (Lola) looks cool but doesn't work well... and trust me, no one will be able to miss this sign.

About time the Valet gets better signage.  People miss it all the time.  And drunks smack or knock over the stand signs, creating loud metallic bangs in the middle of the night.  Hopefully those will go away when the protuding sign gets put up.

 

Better yet, I look forward to the day the valet is closed and that missing tooth is built out...

 

X, do you get a lot of weekend night honking on E4th or are drivers generally pretty patient downtown?

Not really alot, I suppose, but enough to be annoying.  Really what it comes down to is a small percentage of jerks who decide to lay on their horns continuously till they are out of the neighborhood.

Don't you have eggs? :-P

by the way... while i was walking down to the view the carnage at public square... i noticed that they are removing the contstruction front at the Bang and the Clatter and getting ready to move forward with the store front.

Bang and Clatter delays Cleveland opening

by Tony Brown/Plain Dealer Theater Critic

Friday February 22, 2008, 1:22 PM

 

Construction delays have forced Akron's the Bang and the Clatter Theatre Company to push back the opening production of its new downtown Cleveland performance space, at 224 Euclid Ave., from Friday, Feb. 29 to Friday, March 14.

 

The company, which specializes in new, in-your-face theater, is in the midst of a $700,000 renovation of a former shoe store in the East Fourth Street entertainment district. It will operate there and in Akron.

 

The opening production of the Cleveland branch of Bang and Clatter is "Blackbird" by Adam Rapp. For details, call 330-606-5317.

 

I hate to be one of those people of "has anyone heard anything?"--but nonetheless the updated delay release states that opening night is infact tomorrow.... so, who's heard anything?

well there's still no entrance to be had with the building, that's all i know.

East 4th St will be closed to traffic beginning on March 17th and lasting till Nov. 1st.

Fabulous!  I hope that encourages more walkers!

Tis the season!!!  I wish we could turn Cleveland into mini-Europe!

Went to Saigon last week before the film festival.  Service was great, as was the food, which was identical in quality & portions to #1 Pho. 

I bumped into some 'hippies' at Euclid & Ontario who were looking for some Thai food. I recommended Saigon as something pretty close.  Are there any curries on Saigon's menu?  Minh Ahn in DSCDO has a number of delightful curries similar to Thai restaurants.  Anyone know?  Or, better yet, any other restaurants downtown with either Thai dishes or curries??

I think someone posted the Saigon menu-either on this thread or the restaurant thread. I was unable to get it to open though. I am struggling to recall if there were any curries. I do recall a claypot dish, which may go that direction. I liked Saigon, as I do #1 Pho, but I think they sort of tone the food down some to have wider western/Cleveland appeal (pho w/o tendon and tripe, blasphemy!). Of course their lovely settings are a step above the rest, but I kind of think the flavors are not as vibrant as some other Vietnamese places I have been to in other cities and even Cleveland.  I do think that Saigon is most welcome on east 4th which I still argue has sort of a corporate feel whether these places are corporate or not. I can’t put my finger on why this is…but it is. If you ever see a hippie on e4th again, they might like Phenom Penh

Saigon has a handful of curry dishes - nothing Thai-specific, but I imagine they're good enough for a curry fix. Have to agree with peabody, now that I've tried a few dishes, the flavors are very good but a little less "baseball bat to the tastebuds" than other spots in town. And yeah, for a curry fix one Rapid stop from downtown - go with Phnom Penh.

I think someone posted the Saigon menu-either on this thread or the restaurant thread. I was unable to get it to open though. I am struggling to recall if there were any curries. I do recall a claypot dish, which may go that direction. I liked Saigon, as I do #1 Pho, but I think they sort of tone the food down some to have wider western/Cleveland appeal (pho w/o tendon and tripe, blasphemy!). Of course their lovely settings are a step above the rest, but I kind of think the flavors are not as vibrant as some other Vietnamese places I have been to in other cities and even Cleveland.  I do think that Saigon is most welcome on east 4th which I still argue has sort of a corporate feel whether these places are corporate or not. I cant put my finger on why this isbut it is. If you ever see a hippie on e4th again, they might like Phenom Penh

 

I totally agree with your "corporate feel" on East 4th peabody.  I think it stems from a heavy handed flambouancy of the interior design along with the corny flaming bird pilars that give it a Las Vegas casino vibe. 

Not sure who is designing all this stuff, but the interiors are all poorly done in my opinion.  A good quote from the Wrath Arcane clothing designers was how they said Cleveland has influenced them with a "durable, utilitarian minimalism."  That is certainly not the case with the spaces on E4th.

However, I do like the use of all the neon for exterior signs.

I think it stems from a heavy handed flambouancy of the interior design along with the corny flaming bird pilars that give it a Las Vegas casino vibe.

 

I couldn't agree with you more. Those phoenix signs are so so, um, silly. Quit trying to tell people that they've arrived somewhere. Let the street speak for itself.

 

Zocalo will be getting new signage. They'll be doing some sort of blade sign.

zocalo's signage will be horizontal in nature... they are trying to alternate vertical and horizontal signage so they aren't all right on top of eachother.

"Not sure who is designing all this stuff, but the interiors are all poorly done in my opinion."

 

Not all of the spaces are my cup of tea and if they decided to take down the "torches" I'd show up with a wrench/sledgehammer in hand. Corner Alley - a bit over-the-top. Pickwick and Frolick - chintzy but given its use, "durable utilitarian minimalism" wouldn't be appropriate for a comedy club/cabaret complex. I actually like what they've done with Lola, and Saigon's not bad. Since you're in the business I'd really (sincerely) like to see what you've done. "Durable utilitarian minimalism" sounds great in theory but what does that look like? We know what it *doesn't* look like, but have we ever SEEN it? How appropriate would it be for an entertainment district?

Quit trying to tell people that they've arrived somewhere. Let the street speak for itself.

 

I agree 10,000,000%.  And I think our town is starting to go a little crazy with special district signage/streetscapes/gateway elements, etc.  Starts verging on precious.

^ :laugh:

 

Mayday, I actually really like that sculpture. It is not like the place is overcrowded with public art and other significant landmarks. If that were the case, then I'd say the sculpture is a stretch.

It's not like it's in a place where it can be enjoyed, either. But back to East 4th/Vegas Boulevard... ;-)

 

Not sure if everone is aware that, as was mentioned back a ways, Trifecta management who developed Zocala also developed Corner Alley, 4th St. Grill and Flannery’s. (actually I dont think they developed Flannery's but took over the management maybe) 

They may seem similarly corporate, since Trifecta "provides innovative concepts, comprehensive management services and value added solutions/systems to the restaurant and retail entertainment industries.  Create, deliver and manage compelling, customized restaurant and entertainment concepts tailored to the specific needs of the marketplace.  Maximize profitability for shareholders of retail concerns focusing on product enhancement, sales, management and operating efficiencies". 

 

So they are unique to Cleveland (unless they are just the first of a string since I wasn't clear), but not exactly a local concept (corporate concept).  I don't think they are responsible for the flamy things though. 

 

Pickwick is actually a brilliant concept in terms of its historic significance and what they've done there.  Charles Dickens and the Pickwick papers.  Chandalier, Opera House.........  If your not aware of the concept, read about and then take a look.  You may have a better appreciation for it.     

 

Mayday, hopefully I'll have a chance to PM some images to you later today.

As for "durable, utilitarian mimimalism," I'd say it simply refers to a concept of allowing quality materials to remain authentic to their characteristics, and using them efficiently.

I think a bar or entertainment space that has translated this thought into their space well is Beir Markt.  A rather subdued space with simple but interesting details like the tube lights above the bar, the skewed stainless steel railing outside, and then my favorite, the rubber membrane for sound absorbtion on the ceiling.

Nothing abrasive, or overpowering about it, they are well crafted (especially the railing), and probably don't cost that much more than what they are doing on E4th.

They decided what needed to look good, focused on those details, and thriftily let everything else slip into the background.

I think it's an inherently Cleveland ideal:  making THE best with limited, but excellent resources.

post them here, we'd all love to see your work.

Thanks for the interest, but I'll have to let you wait until our website gets put together.  Sorry MTS :mrgreen:

I agree that E. 4 definitely has a corporate feel and also a somewhat stodgy feel.  Compare this to C-bus's  south campus gateway (also a mixture of regional and national chains) and it's a very different feel.  I suppose it's due to the intended audience, but it's a wee bit frustrating. 

 

In my mind Cleveland is missing the boat on funky downtown establishments.  While Teresa's Pizza might make okay za, the place is definitely not funky!  It's really not even phun!  I think funky is maybe some intangible combination of aesthetics, service, food-style, spatial arrangement, and ethos that conjures up youthful spirit and good vibes.  The funkiest places I can think in dwntwn Clv are TeaHouse Noodles and Dave's Cosmic Subs and they don't exactly score high on the funk-o-meter! 

Jhonny Mangos, IMHO, sets the benchmark for a funky establishment  in Clv!

 

I'll be curious to see what E.4 morphs into over the coming years.  Right now, way too many set lunch & dinner spots with no places offering flex space.  Where can one go on E. 4th to just hang-out, say during the in between parts of the day?

 

When I think funky, I think of the Short North in C-bus and Wicker Park in Chicago.

I really like  W.28th's def of 'durable, utilitarian mimimalism' (d,um)  If that were a design element/criteria that could be communicated to Clv developers, we'd all be better off for it.

 

Maybe, though I'm not sure, a D,UM is what I'm getting at with funky.  I definitely believe that it is part of it.

 

While I'm not normally in agreement with most of W. 28th's posts, I do wholeheartedly agree with him in this case. 

truthfully while I could probably get into living downtown (ie warehouse or e4th), I just can't get into the establishments. I have many issues with corporate ownership-much of it is the fact that profits go to people who are not our friends and neighbors here in town. Of course every biz wants to make money, but there are too many people sitting around outside of Cleveland making money for nothing -other than they invested. Another problem as mentioned is the style (or lack of) of these places. It is kind of like they are saying we are such imbeciles they have to theme up the place so we get were we are- you know that over the top Irish, Italian,Cajun, Mexican or what have you decor. At the same time the food is completely dumbed down. I have to say the worst, most expensive, most horrible service meal I had at my life was at the Foundation Room at the HOB in Chicago. I just canot think of anywhere "funky" downtown

 

As far as DT places with a tad of character, I think Little Bar and Grill can be the kind of place you can relax and hang out, but even that can be hit or miss if you get one of the servers with an attitude.  Becky's over by CSU seems to be open during the day and has a pretty friendly crowd.   I am guessing the DT rents are higher, so investors are sought, and little by little the heart and soul of a place is chipped away until you look around and wonder whether you are in Peoria, Orlando, or Cleveland. who knows it all looks the same?

I think its a combination of what peabody states and the "watered down" affect of today's generation. 

 

Look at how many people think a neighborhood is cool or rate a neighborhood as interesting because its full of chain restaurants.

It is kind of like they are saying we are such imbeciles they have to theme up the place so we get were we are- you know that over the top Irish, Italian,Cajun, Mexican or what have you decor. At the same time the food is completely dumbed down.

 

Very well said.  When you can imagine some project manager presenting his "ethnic food" concepts to shareholders in a polished presentation on foam core boards....well, the romance is a little killed.

 

I've never been in there, so I shouldn't knock it, but from the street, Teresa's looks like a seriously bland, nondescript pizza factory that is likely manned by pizza-indifferent wages slaves.  How is it really?  I want to be wrong.

"Chains" are in some ways a necessary evil. In enconomies not known as New York, Chicago, and a handful of others (which are complete self sustaining unique places), there simply aren't enough efficient local places to survive.  And really Zocalo is the only place on this street that p*sses me off.  Otherwise, yes corner alley is "corporate" but it is certainly unique to this area and I'm glad it's here.  It's something different to do down here.  Otherwise the street is filled, with Lola (local), Saigon (local), soon to be La Dolce Vida (local), Wonder Bar (local), Flannery's (now corporately owned but still has the same manager for the past 15 years, and still feels awfully local to me).  I mean seriously that is not bad. And if a unique chain or two is what's required to pump some life in so be it.  I think you guys might be being slightly overly critical on east 4th street as a whole... eesh.

I did not mean to be hard on it . Lord knows it is not nearly as bad as what is out there in the burbs, and in fact the whole urban lite (its kinda city its kinda North Olmsted too!) might help bring more people in town to enjoy the city.  I am sure most Cleveland metro area sheep people feel more comfortable with predictability and uniformity so it may not be a bad thing.

"Chains" are in some ways a necessary evil. In enconomies not known as New York, Chicago, and a handful of others (which are complete self sustaining unique places), there simply aren't enough efficient local places to survive.  And really Zocalo is the only place on this street that p*sses me off.  Otherwise, yes corner alley is "corporate" but it is certainly unique to this area and I'm glad it's here.  It's something different to do down here.  Otherwise the street is filled, with Lola (local), Saigon (local), soon to be La Dolce Vida (local), Wonder Bar (local), Flannery's (now corporately owned but still has the same manager for the past 15 years, and still feels awfully local to me).  I mean seriously that is not bad. And if a unique chain or two is what's required to pump some life in so be it.  I think you guys might be being slightly overly critical on east 4th street as a whole... eesh.

 

I don't really mean to be so critical, just explaining why E4th isn't my favorite part of town.  Not really important, but I thought Wonder Bar was corporate, no?  And Black Fin (or whatever that place is called).  I'm not even rabidly anti-chain...only when it's bland dumbed down chain.

 

And there are PLENTY of non-NYC/non-Chicago places not dominated by chains.  I know the numbers don't work for these places to pay rents large enough to finance redevelopment projects, but it's not like only the big cities have non-chain choices.  Inner ring burbs (Lakewood, the Heights) are still mostly family/local owned places.  As for why Cleveland seems largely out of entrepeneurial gas...I think the very low rates of foreign immigration have really hurt the city.

 

 

i guess my point is that it's not exactly like the street is lined with olive garden and applebee's.  Some of our best local restaraunts are represented here.  Honestly, I think if Zocalo's were Luchita's it wouldn't be an issue.

Cleveland is actually unique and fortunate in its one of a kind, locally owned places, whether they are corporate feeling or not, and E4th was certainly going for some destination type places.  This is what out of towners that I bring to Cleveland always point out and are impressed by. 

 

In most cities you do see more chain crap downtown..  Im sure we will see more of it if Pesht is realized though.   

Cleveland is actually unique and fortunate in its one of a kind, locally owned places, whether they are corporate feeling or not, and E4th was certainly going for some destination type places.  This is what out of towners that I bring to Cleveland always point out and are impressed by. 

 

In most cities you do see more chain crap downtown..  Im sure we will see more of it if Pesht is realized though.   

 

That I can agree with.  Most of these "new city's" downtowns or near downtown area's are full of chains. Look at Atlanta, Houston, DC, Miami and Charlotte for example. 

 

I think Cleveland, which to me is very similar to Philly in the way downtown is evolving, has a very good mix of restaurants and it's only going to get better.

Honestly, I think if Zocalo's were Luchita's it wouldn't be an issue.

 

I would have been on board with that!

 

I think I've just been spoiled by the development of OC and Tremont- great bar and restaurant options, all the visions of local entrepreneurs.

I agree about tremont/oc as well other neighborhoods throughout the city. One of my favorite things about this area are the multitudes of places full of character. Truthfully it would be hard to find many more cites with such a relatively high concentrations of charming, interesting or innovative restaurants and pubs. It might be just me though. I am not from the region so I find whole scene unique.

Honestly, I think if Zocalo's were Luchita's it wouldn't be an issue.

 

I would have been on board with that!

 

I think I've just been spoiled by the development of OC and Tremont- great bar and restaurant options, all the visions of local entrepreneurs.

 

  I hear you.  I just don't know how this thread turned so unbelievably negative so fast. Not EVERYTHING can be completely local. Maybe I just got angry when i started reading that Teresa's wasn't funky enough...  :?  I mean, what's wrong with Teresa's? It's very local (Teresa is the daughter of Auggie's) and I for one was very excited to have a neighborhood pizza place open up down the street.  People can turn their nose up, but the food is good, and it has great hours, I have been eating Auggie's and Teresa's since I can remember.  It is not a bad thing for the area.  Also Pickwick is local... So on the local side of the scoreboard we have Lola, Saigon, La Dolce Vida, Pickwick, Teresa's, soon to be Hush, Wonder Bar... and I'm throwing in Flannery's since it's the same management team and staff and it's been there forever... I'm even throwing in Vivo since it's right there.  That's 9.  Corporate team gets Crapcalo's, HOB, Corner Alley, Jimmy John's, and Black Fin.  That's 5... And out of those five one is a premier concert venue, and one is a bowling alley with half way decent food.  This is hardly a corporate megaplex.  However I may go burn Zocalo down (even though i did have a burrito recently and it was much better than i remember) and then try to begin my own negotiations with luchita's to move in. :-P

^Nah, I know you're right.  I really do admire the MRN for their willingness to put the time into E4th- they are certainly getting results.  I've come to peace with what e4th is and what it's not, but occasionally the impractical/naive armchair developer inside each of us bubbles up.

well put^

I think some may feel that E4 has a corporate influence because it's this rather polished, "lively" street in between a dug-up Euclid and a forgotten Prospect.  And let's not act like downtown Chicago is all local either.  There's an abundance of Chipotles, Jimmy Johns, Starbucks, Bennigans, Cheesecake Factory, Chilis, Rock Bottom, Red Lobster, ETC ETC ETC. 

 

The isolated nature of E4 keeps it from feeling like an integrated part of the community.  Once Euclid is finished and we hopefully begin to see Euclid and Prospect connecting the east and west parts of downtown, the neon lights of E4 won't seem as silly.

 

E4 is far from finished-but even more importantly, it's only one piece of the puzzle!