Speaking of E 4th, you might want to know the chef at Wonder Bar (who produced GREAT food) is leaving and going to Nemo Grille in Avon.  The place is really not well-managed and my food has always been way, way better than my service there and I've been there dozens of times.  With the chef's departure, I basically have no reason to go there anymore so I am done talking up the place.

Rocknroller, it has nothing to do with the state of Euclid and "forgotten" Prospect.  It has to do with cheesy interior design.  I'm personally a fan of the neon.

^ I have not had a chance to try the food. we were there (edit: wonder bar) last week, but the bar service was so bad we were afraid we would miss our film if the kitchen was any where near as bad as the service. The place only had a few people in when we came. We watched THREE other parties of various sizes come in, stand there, and then  leave before ordering. The bartender was too busy popping olives and gossiping with the waitresses to even notice. 

:roll: to the turn this thread has taken recently.

Rocknroller, it has nothing to do with the state of Euclid and "forgotten" Prospect.  It has to do with cheesy interior design.  I'm personally a fan of the neon.

 

I think you're confusing me with someone else. I didn't say anything about the stuff you mention.

Sorry RnR, that was to CLE2030.  My bad.

I'm not going to defend a chain restaurant or someplace that may feel corporate.  But even the most corporate of chains is still most likely locally owned and operated with the owner simply paying a franchising fee to the corporation.  And, of course, all of the employees are local.  So even when you're eating there, the money is still going into the pockets of people in Cleveland.  As long as its successful - regardless of the audience it caters to - that's fine with me, particularly when there are a great number of alternatives for those who want nothing to do with a chain/corporate place.

^Disagree.  The owner(s)/corporation sees a large chunk of the revenue, which for a national chain, goes to the headquarters, nearly always in another city (or state).  For a local restaurant, this profit stays in the community and is most likely pumped back into the local economy by the owner when he/she spends it.

I guess it would depend on whether or not the location is a franchise. Franchise fees are pretty minimal. I think they're 5-10 percent of revenue. Most of it goes towards marketing and advertising. Entrepreneurs can still make a lot of money from a franchise. I always prefer local places though. More character and more welcoming  :-D

^Disagree.  The owner(s)/corporation sees a large chunk of the revenue, which for a national chain, goes to the headquarters, nearly always in another city (or state).  For a local restaurant, this profit stays in the community and is most likely pumped back into the local economy by the owner when he/she spends it.

 

I disagree with you.  If MTS Restaurant Group franchises several applebees, Jamba Juice, Friday's, Capital Grills, Starbucks, Cheesecake factory's, etc.  I'm keeping the money local.  I pay a franchisee license fee (that to be determined for a single unit OR for an entire region - if I wanted to keep other franchisees out of the market) for each unit, yet I'm using local

– Vendors (garbage, stagers, furniture supplier/maker, Insurance, Bank, utilities, Uniform supplier, etc.)

– I'm buying all the produce, meat, etc from local grocery stores and markets.

– My organic growers will be locally

– Office staff and service workers

– advertising and market personnel AND target audience (radio, TV, newspaper, internet)

– leasing  contractors and maintenance professionals

 

Shall I go on?

 

I think the whole E.4th feel is just "new", not necessarily corporate. It takes a little a while for designs to mature and to develop a patron culture; both of which create the character. All this is inevitable. Don't hold it against them.

Many of you may have noticed hanging in several windows signage along the street exclaiming, "Go Fourth!".  This was done as part of my agencies initial, albeit limited, phase of marketing designed to draw attention/increase traffic to this area.  I am now going to be working on this project much more closely and will play a direct role as we heighten our efforts over the next few months in advance of the plans to turn the street into a flower-lined strolling promenade. 

 

As the UO community offers a wide-array of diverse talents to draw upon, I welcome any ideas or thoughts that you may have that will aid in our efforts.  All ideas are welcome. :-D

 

Well, this will be a tough sell but if you could make the outdoor patios non-smoking, that would be a big plus.

 

Another idea: I think it would be cool for the 4th street restaurants to have a discount day on the 4th of every month. 

 

 

Fourth Fest the week of July 4th -including the Orchestra day at Tower City

I love the "go fourth" plan.

 

I think that there should be a dowtown discount card.

Another idea: I think it would be cool for the 4th street restaurants to have a discount day on the 4th of every month. 

 

RNR I love that.

 

Am I getting paid for this "consultation"???  :wink:

– Buy three meals, get the fourth for free

– A East Fourth Festival

there is a tenant of MRN apartments discount card, X can probably further explain.

 

Can anyone shed some light on Blackfin Saloon?

Tenants get it, so do workers.  It entitles one to discounts at the businesses along or some near, East 4th.  Usually 10%, maybe 20%, but still nice.

Well, this will be a tough sell but if you could make the outdoor patios non-smoking, that would be a big plus.

 

An outrageous suggestion and a completely unnecessary policy.

Well, this will be a tough sell but if you could make the outdoor patios non-smoking, that would be a big plus.

 

Exactly.  This basically tells smokers that they can not go to E4th street...

 

An outrageous suggestion and a completely unnecessary policy.

Well, this will be a tough sell but if you could make the outdoor patios non-smoking, that would be a big plus.

 

Exactly.  This basically tells smokers that they can not go to E4th street...

 

An outrageous suggestion and a completely unnecessary policy.

 

Everyone tread carefully, we've discussed smoking non-smoking before on the website, I'd prefer to keep the general smoking vs. non-smoking argument here

Many of you may have noticed hanging in several windows signage along the street exclaiming, "Go Fourth!".  This was done as part of my agencies initial, albeit limited, phase of marketing designed to draw attention/increase traffic to this area.  I am now going to be working on this project much more closely and will play a direct role as we heighten our efforts over the next few months in advance of the plans to turn the street into a flower-lined strolling promenade. 

 

As the UO community offers a wide-array of diverse talents to draw upon, I welcome any ideas or thoughts that you may have that will aid in our efforts.  All ideas are welcome. :-D

 

 

Have an open competition to design a legitamate "ROAD CLOSED" sign for the street.  The sign with a sign painted on it is the crappiest thing I've ever seen.

Lets see your design.

Well, this will be a tough sell but if you could make the outdoor patios non-smoking, that would be a big plus.

 

Exactly.  This basically tells smokers that they can not go to E4th street...

 

An outrageous suggestion and a completely unnecessary policy.

 

Everyone tread carefully, we've discussed smoking non-smoking before on the website, I'd prefer to keep the general smoking vs. non-smoking argument here

 

It's my opinion and I'm entitled to voice it, just as you are welcome to disagree with it. 

Many of you may have noticed hanging in several windows signage along the street exclaiming, "Go Fourth!".  This was done as part of my agencies initial, albeit limited, phase of marketing designed to draw attention/increase traffic to this area.  I am now going to be working on this project much more closely and will play a direct role as we heighten our efforts over the next few months in advance of the plans to turn the street into a flower-lined strolling promenade. 

 

As the UO community offers a wide-array of diverse talents to draw upon, I welcome any ideas or thoughts that you may have that will aid in our efforts.  All ideas are welcome. :-D

 

 

Have an open competition to design a legitamate "ROAD CLOSED" sign for the street.  The sign with a sign painted on it is the crappiest thing I've ever seen.

 

A good idea, and do the same with the patio fences.  Is this the sort of thing you are looking for though?

 

It's my opinion and I'm entitled to voice it, just as you are welcome to disagree with it. 

 

Easy there tiger, I wasn't saying you can't air your opinion. I was saying I would like to see this thread remain on topic. Based on the few responses to your posit, it looked as if the thread was going to meander off into the smoking vs. anti-smoking debate.

 

FYI, This forum is not a democracy.

My comment wasn't directed to you, pope, but I understand what you're saying.  I was simply offering my suggestions, just like anyone offers theirs.  I never intended to start a debate.

every fourth shot of whiskey free

My opinion is that East Fourth marketing should be a little more restrained. There is a little bit of danger in over commercializing. For instance the inlaid brick East Fourth "logo" on the street and vertical lanterns are a bit much, and somewhat distracting from the experience rather than reinforcing the experience. Don't get me wrong - There should be some marketing strategy and destination spotting.

 

Authenticity and uniqueness are important considerations, but a lot of what I see is generic flare.

 

I do like the mix of tenants, string lights and pedestrian only traffic. I also like the idea of street performers/musicians, and discount days.

 

I'd like to see retractble angled canopies over the patios to get more use of the patios. A normal designated municipal sign depicting an x through a car, and/or "Pedestrian Traffic Only" in Bold Futura Font would be a lot better than the current "road closed" sign.

   

 

 

I would also like them to market themselves as a street within the Gateway neighborhood, and not as their own neighborhood, but that's just my own little beef about reinventing the wheel with each new thing.

My opinion is that East Fourth marketing should be a little more restrained. There is a little bit of danger in over commercializing. For instance the inlaid brick East Fourth "logo" on the street and vertical lanterns are a bit much, and somewhat distracting from the experience rather than reinforcing the experience. Don't get me wrong - There should be some marketing strategy and destination spotting.

 

Authenticity and uniqueness are important considerations, but a lot of what I see is generic flare.

 

I do like the string lights and pedestrian only traffic. I also like the idea of street performers/musicians, and discount days.

 

I'd like to see retractble angled canopies over the patios to get more use of the patios. A normal designated municipal sign depicting an x through a car, and/or "Pedestrian Traffic Only" in Bold Futura Font would be a lot better than the current "road closed" sign.

 

The phoenix statue and the light sticks are very tacky. I love the light strings.

I agree some restraint is not a bad idea. I was in Chicago few days ago and thought the River North entertainment area had a feel of corporate chains meet tourists and suburbanites ( people from Naperville have to go somewhere when they go to the big city). E4th is far from that point, but the scale could get tipped. Again, I guess there is  nothing really wrong all that, but I think our local scene can and should be showcased more

^^cool article.  Do you have a link--I was just curious of the source.

bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/04/cleveland-is-like-trendy

 

here you go

We've had some nice articles throughout national publications all year!  Off the top of my head, we were in the Chicago Tribune for the food scene, a Chicago Red Eye 2 weeks ago for things to do on a short weekend trip in Cleveland, Oprah's mag's little article, and a HUGE (25 +/- pages!)  story about the city in in USAirways Oct 2007 magazine (btw, I have a few left if anyone would like one--quite an impressive spread!).

 

 

Speaking of E 4th, you might want to know the chef at Wonder Bar (who produced GREAT food) is leaving and going to Nemo Grille in Avon.  The place is really not well-managed and my food has always been way, way better than my service there and I've been there dozens of times.  With the chef's departure, I basically have no reason to go there anymore so I am done talking up the place.

 

I am sorry to hear that you were disappointed in Wonder Bar. We have recently undergone a transition, which was touched on in this string. That transition, however, is now complete.

 

We have expanded the menu, which you can view here http://www.wonderbarcleveland.com/dinner-menu.htm. The items we serve, all of the highest quality, give our patrons a variety of options to complement their experience at our upscale bar.

 

We welcome you back to Wonder Bar.

 

If you ever want to discuss a particular issue, feel free to contact me at [email protected]. I appreciate the feedback.

 

We look forward to seeing you!

 

 

^While it seems that a few of us have had less than stellar experiences there, it means a lot (to me) to see you here and perhaps take some of our whining into consideration.

I absolutely will!  I care about WB and, while positive feedback is great, critical comments provide an opportunity to improve.  More small changes, for the better of course, are coming so keep us in mind.

 

^While it seems that a few of us have had less than stellar experiences there, it means a lot (to me) to see you here and perhaps take some of our whining into consideration.

Any updates on the new The Bang and The Clatter space? Last time I was down there a few weeks ago, it was still facadeless, so I'm assuming the March 14 production didn't happen.

We have recently undergone a transition, which was touched on in this string. That transition, however, is now complete.

 

We welcome you back to Wonder Bar.

 

If you ever want to discuss a particular issue, feel free to contact me at [email protected]. I appreciate the feedback.

 

Just let us know when the transition of the service there is complete (or the concept of "the customer is important")....  Also, what is the current identity there?  What happened to "jazz bar"  (too difficult in the Gateway District, so the televisions were added at the expense of live music?)   

Any updates on the new The Bang and The Clatter space? Last time I was down there a few weeks ago, it was still facadeless, so I'm assuming the March 14 production didn't happen.

 

Today the bricklayers were working in front of it (euclid corridor streetscape). No facade yet, but inside it looked like walls were painted and the feel of the place was developing.

Proper service is a concern of ours, and can always be improved.  As far as Jazz, we have had live Jazz from the day we opened in August until the end of this March, just two weeks ago.  The live Jazz will return in late spring.  The TVs, as well, have been there since opening day. 

 

You can track changes and updates on our website at www.wonderbarcleveland.com.

 

 

 

Just let us know when the transition of the service there is complete (or the concept of the importance of the customer)....  Also, what is the current identity there?  What happened to "jazz bar"  (too difficult in the Gateway District, so the televisions were added at the expense of live music?)   

Thanks!

Just wanted to say that I was at Wonder Bar in November with some friends and everything was fine - service was good (relatively attentive w/o being obtrusive), and everyone at our table was happy with the food (lots of small plates) we ordered. :-)

thanks Wonder Bar for caring! My feedback on Wonder Bar: I have had fine service for a couple drinks there once before. The other visits have not been so lucky. I have felt like staff is kind of "put upon"  by my presence. Not just me either. From observation it seems they are easily  annoyed by  customers (from simple questions like "what is on draft", to "do you have happy hour"). For what it is worth,my tastes are from the most humble corner bar to really nice places sometimes. I do not have unreasonable expectations and equally turned off by over arse kissing as attitude.  Having paid some dues in the business, something I think should be required to be human,  I always treat staff with very due respect and tip minimum 20% (plus, plus,plus in many times) and am very patient.  So I hope service will get on track. A sincere smile and hello/good bye (no slapping tab down and walking away) would not hurt. It is 3/4 of the battle. I hope you will just sit an observe your staff interacting with customers or send in a mystery shopper. Thanks again for checking in here. The space is great so I hope you can get more regulars!

thanks Wonder Bar for caring! My feedback on Wonder Bar: I have had fine service for a couple drinks there once before. The other visits have not been so lucky. I have felt like staff is kind of "put upon"  by my presence. Not just me either. From observation it seems they are easily  annoyed by  customers (from simple questions like "what is on draft", to "do you have happy hour"). For what it is worth,my tastes are from the most humble corner bar to really nice places sometimes. I do not have unreasonable expectations and equally turned off by over arse kissing as attitude.  Having paid some dues in the business, something I think should be required to be human,  I always treat staff with very due respect and tip minimum 20% (plus, plus,plus in many times) and am very patient.  So I hope service will get on track. A sincere smile and hello/good bye (no slapping tab down and walking away) would not hurt. It is 3/4 of the battle. I hope you will just sit an observe your staff interacting with customers or send in a mystery shopper. Thanks again for checking in here. The space is great so I hope you can get more regulars!

 

I am definitely going to put the service on the top of my list.  There is no point in having good food and drink if the service is bad!

 

Thanks again for your feedback!

has anyone heard of a date for the grand opening of black finn?

I love the fact that Wonder Bar, Cleveland RTA, software companies, developers and others come here to give us the direct scoop on what's going on with their projects and businesses.

 

Getting the information directly from the source is so much more helpful than getting: "I heard from a friend who knows a guy at such-and-such place that they're going to be building XYZ..."

I love the fact that Wonder Bar, Cleveland RTA, software companies, developers and others come here to give us the direct scoop on what's going on with their projects and businesses.

 

Very true. You don't see that at Cleveland.com.

You don't see either logic or reasoning in the comments section to cleveland.com.  The Plain Dealer does everyone a disservice by including that unmoderated forum of ignorance.

pace seems to be picking up pretty rapidly at Bang and Clatter... they had the MDF up over most of the front as of lunch, and with the windows cut out you could see that the interior was nearing completion.