Let's just say they took a lot of liberties with the proposed design and that it has not gone unnoticed. 

All these places around E4th are really producing some of the crappiest/cheapest storefronts I've ever seen.  That is unfortunate.

All these places around E4th are really producing some of the crappiest/cheapest storefronts I've ever seen.  That is unfortunate.

 

What are you talking about?

How much more info do you want?

Zocalo, the "new" flannerie's front (the old was way better), Bang and Clatter... These three in particulare are really pretty bad.

what about Flannery's (^I think it adds more to the street than the old one), Wonder Bar, Corner Alley, Lola, Pickwick, and HOBs??   What's wrong with Bang and Clatter other than the doors?

 

And isn't the news signage for Saigon and Zocalo still coming?

This thread isn't going to take another "fashion police" jag, is it?

Flannery's might look nice at a quick glance, but it was really sh!ttily (very technical I know) constructed.  A lot of it is simple stuff, instead of actually having fluted columns they nailed half rounds to the column to make it "appear" fluted.  As W28th indicated... most of them wreak of cheapness.  I think if you're involved in the A&D / Construction fields in any form, you'll spot them a mile a way.  What I don't get is that it looks like they've dropped some money on the interiors, and the exteriors are primarily half assed and cheap as hell.  Pickwick gets a pass it was there way before MRN. And Zocalo is the worst, new signage aside that storefront looks like it was made out of cardboard.

 

PS  For a perfect example of this stand on the other side of Euclid from B&C.  Take a look at the 5 columns... Then look at the one on the far right.  The (for lack of better term because I have no idea what they are attempting to construct with these things) "cap" at the top of this colum is a solid 3-4" longer than all the others so it doesn't line up.... Bush league stuff.  You can kind of see this Mayday's pic but the perspective hides it a bit.

^^Nothing wrong with critiquing the storefronts, no?

 

Just for (unrelated) kicks:

 

 

 

From: http://images.ulib.csuohio.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/postcards&CISOPTR=3013&CISOBOX=1&REC=8

So if I understand correctly, design review did not appove the design? If they did not , then actions should be taken to remedy this as we can only expect more of this on 4th and in other areas. If they DID approve this, for shame! Does e.4th have their own design review or is it a larger downtown one? I know WHD has their own.

^Design review is not comprehensive and is sometimes elusive. When you have a large building, some of the smaller details don't always get noticed. Then there are instances like the new townhomes across the street from my house. Design review approved a certain style of brick. Some guy who orders the materials for the developer punched in the wrong number for the brick order. The bricklayers didn't give a second thought to it and simply put up the brick that was dropped off by the supplier. I called landmarks and told them that the bricks that were being put up were not the bricks that were approved. A meeting ensued. The developer had to apply a stain to the bricks so that the color would match the approved design (the staining process is pretty cool and very effective, yet expensive).

good for you. sadly people do not bother and these builders count on that when they want to cut cost or be sloppy. I think the residents and neighbor businesses need to press to make sure these details are given the attention they deserve. that door is the grossest thing I have ever seen. What is next, a Greekesque concrete angel-a- peeing fountain?

good for you. sadly people do not bother and these builders count on that when they want to cut cost or be sloppy. I think the residents and neighbor businesses need to press to make sure these details are given the attention they deserve. that door is the grossest thing I have ever seen. What is next, a Greekesque concrete angel-a- peeing fountain?

 

How can you expect people to complain, when they don't even go to community board meetings?  How would they know that anything is wrong.

 

3231, AKA, Gladys Kravitz, good for you!  I bet those builders across the street really like you!  LOL

Feisty Bang and the Clatter Theatre Company set to open $700,000 facility in Downtown Cleveland

 

by Tony Brown/Plain Dealer Theater Critic

Saturday April 19, 2008, 12:00 AM

 

 

The stakes: $700,000. Which, by the way, they don't actually have.

 

The players: Two scruffy, mid-30s longhairs from Akron. They're both named Sean, and both have Irish surnames, but they call themselves "the Hillbilly" and "the Jew."

 

The gamble: That on a torn-up street in a desperate-to-be-cool downtown entertainment district of depressed Cleveburg, these hiptidudes can produce in-yer-face theater in an abandoned shoe store they've transformed into a state-of-the-art smackdown forum...

 

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2008/04/feisty_bang_and_the_clatter_th.html

So if I understand correctly, design review did not appove the design? If they did not , then actions should be taken to remedy this as we can only expect more of this on 4th and in other areas. If they DID approve this, for shame! Does e.4th have their own design review or is it a larger downtown one? I know WHD has their own.

Eassssssyyyy Peabody.

1.  East 4th is part of the Historic Gateway Neighborhood and reports to the HGN design review board.

2.  As I mentioned above there were several "liberties" taken from the approved design in this case.

3.  As 3231 points out design review can often be "elusive".  In particular when talking about a store front that can go up in about a week, it can be hard to tell what is happening until it is almost finished.

4.  If liberties are taken, what do you expect the design review to do, show up with a bulldozer and knock it over?  It is difficult when people don't play by the rules and make changes without notification. There are steps that can be taken (and I assure you in every instance they are) but again, it's not like a bulldozer is showing up.  Playing by the rules take time.

5.  Actually for all the liberties, outside the door they really did stick with the "intent" of the design.  The real problem (in this partiular street) is as W.28th alluded to, the "value engineering" that occurs, which is pretty hard to defend against.  Corner Alley, Pickwick, Lola, Wonderbar don't really have that problem because they pretty much worked with the existing storefront. Zocalo, B & C, and Flannery's are problems because they created new storefronts.

 

  I really don't have the time or the inclination to get into all the ins and outs of this particular area.  Needless to say many people are aware of some "issues".  I'm done commenting on it... But please do not "for shame" myself or anyone else who spends an awful lot of their time trying to make this place better, without having all the facts.

 

The gamble: That on a torn-up street in a desperate-to-be-cool downtown entertainment district of depressed Cleveburg, these hiptidudes can produce in-yer-face theater in an abandoned shoe store they've transformed into a state-of-the-art smackdown forum.

 

 

Ahhhh... the plain dealer at their finest.

mcCleveland you misunderstood my tone. I am not shaming YOU as I don't know where you live or what you do. As it happens I don't have dossiers on every forumer so not sure why you are taking this personally. I think you said that trailer door was not what was passed through (or was not really on the table as it was a smaller detail). Seeing as such design variations do take place-and I am hearing there is not much that can be done (I never proposed a bull dozer btw), I will be less likely to bother to go to design review meetings in my neighborhood since builders are going to do what they are going to do. This is only my opinion, but it seems like OC is a little ahead of the other neighborhoods with regard to keeping an eye on these things. Maybe to a fault even.

 

The gamble: That on a torn-up street in a desperate-to-be-cool downtown entertainment district of depressed Cleveburg, these hiptidudes can produce in-yer-face theater in an abandoned shoe store they've transformed into a state-of-the-art smackdown forum.

 

 

Ahhhh... the plain dealer at their finest.

 

Yep, if the we in the media get tired of being accused of hyperbole (and we do), this type of crap doesn't help.

 

What is our level of unemployment? If someone from the Great Depression or even the recession of the early 1980s could be teleported to today, they would laugh out loud if they read that.

desperate-trying to be cool like Crocker Park?  Probably what they're thinking :|

Alright, back to East 4th folks. I'll try to be nice.

Story on Bang and Clatter opening night....overflowing as expected.  Hopefully they can keep it up!

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Bang and Clatter opens theater in Cleveland

4/24/2008 - West Side Leader

By David Ritchey

 

‘This Is How It Goes’ features fine acting, but moves slowly

CLEVELAND —  The Bang and The Clatter Theatre Company, a star in the Akron entertainment galaxy, opened its second theater — Sometimes In The Silence ... — last week, at 224 E. Euclid in Cleveland.

 

The Cleveland space is about 8,000 square feet and is in a facility that was once used as a shoe store. However, the playing area is flexible and, of course, has a seating area that can be expanded to accommodate more people. The theater is near The House of Blues and about half a block from several good restaurants and bars...

 

http://www.akron.com/akron-ohio-entertainment-news.asp?aID=2220

Wow, for someone who has a Ph. D. in communications, Mr. Ritchie's writing style leaves a bit to be desired, IMHO.

 

But great to hear Bang and Clatter's opening went so well!  With their pricing program and almost nightly shows, I'm jealous off all the downtown dwellers who can decide to go catch a show on a whim.  "Honey, do you want to watch American Idol or Survivor tonight?"  "Meh, let's just go to the Bang."  :wink:

La Strada's front facade is up, and the construction barrier is down.  It's just the frame and windows, so it's hard to tell much about how it will look finally, but if is nice to have some windows in that space.

As La Strada's neighbor, I was thrilled to see that their barrier is finally down!  As a token of my appreciation of all your interest in E. 4th, and Cleveland at large, I want to offer you guys a deal.  :clap:

 

Print this post and bring it in to Wonder Bar for a [glow=red,2,300]free pizza [/glow] during Happy Hour with a drink purchase.  HH is Tues-Fri from 5-7. We are also open on Mondays when there is a home game. 

---

I have to say all the following - you understand - offer valid until May 9, one pizza per person and per printout.  Management has the right to recind offer at any time.

 

Can't have an endless free pizza offer!  There is always someone who will take advantage, you know.

---

If you want to get onboard for more special offers, email me your email address and I will put you on my mailing list.  [email protected]

 

Thanks!

Valerie, that's very kind!

 

Just call it the "urban ohio" discount!

 

 

With so many people down on Cleveland, I want to reward the people who are enthusiastic and hopeful about it! 

Thank you Valerie, we may just have to have a forum happy hour meet sometime! I "wonder" where we could have it? ;-)

I was actually thinking of starting a monthly happy hour meet-up at WB called "iWonder".  Each month I would propose a different topic of current interest in the Cleveland area and people could come and discuss!  Except, I won't care if people go off topic.  Topics could be things like, what would the impact of a bank merger be on Cleveland?, will the Cavs make the finals?, how can we get natives to appreciate the city? And on and on...

Well you've got a built in audience here!

Yes, but would you guys actually come in for something like that?

If there were Happy Hour specials & like minded people, I think so. 

 

I love conversations with intelligent people.  :-)

 

And beer.  :drunk:

I think it sounds potentially good, but I have to say that whenever we organize happy hours/meets, etc., it's usually a priority to spread the wealth. Maybe have a roving downtown event like that where Wonder Bar hosts one month, another place hosts another month - granted that would involve some coordinating. :-|

Well, the whole idea is to play up the "wonder" in Wonder Bar, hence the iWonder. Plus that silly little i that is infront of everything these days! There is a roving tech networking event. The first one was at WB, don't know where the next one is yet, and the third will be back at WB in June. If you want to know more, again, send me your email and I will send out invites. Its called Digital Cocktails. I would of course provide some gratis apps for iWonder HH. We have good HH deals, too. I don't want to take advantage of the forum by advertising my place too much!

 

With all that said, I do really appreciate spreading the wealth.

Regarding this comment in the article above - "Because of ongoing street repair, don’t plan to park on the street. Some parking decks are within a couple of blocks of the theater."

 

Who is this guy?

 

Can I just say that I have parked ON EUCLID in front of City Blue, etc, on more than one occasion FOR FREE.  Recently.  There are places to be had and there is a parking deck across the street.  In addition, it might be a good thing to actually have to walk more than five feet from car to destination.  Sure, when it is cold and what not, I don't like to walk, but during this great weather lately, walking is a pleasure.

 

Plus, if you know how to parallel park well, you get good spaces that other people are afraid to try.  :)

 

 

regarding iWonder- I think Great Lakes Brewery is doing something similar, revolving around science topics.  They usually bring in someone like a Case professor to give a talk, and to lead the discussion.  You may look into that to see a little more about how it is organized.

 

And thanks for the happy hour pizza special.  I will definitely do my best to come on down.

regarding iWonder- I think Great Lakes Brewery is doing something similar, revolving around science topics.  They usually bring in someone like a Case professor to give a talk, and to lead the discussion.  You may look into that to see a little more about how it is organized.

 

And thanks for the happy hour pizza special.  I will definitely do my best to come on down.

 

That's a great idea!  Maybe someone from Urban at CSU.

With so many people down on Cleveland, I want to reward the people who are enthusiastic and hopeful about it! 

 

Wow! That's very generous!! I'll be down there this week and buy something too to extend my appreciation. I believe in voting with my money!

.  I don't want to take advantage of the forum by advertising my place too much!

 

 

I speak only for myself, but having champagne tastes on a beer budget, I like hearing about and taking advantge of quality HH drink specials.

Saigon started to add its outdoor patio today.

Was at Zocalos for the first time on Friday.  Excellent margaritas!

.  I don't want to take advantage of the forum by advertising my place too much!

 

 

I speak only for myself, but having champagne tastes on a beer budget, I like hearing about and taking advantge of quality HH drink specials.

 

My mom always said that I had caviar taste on an egg salad budget.

 

I am glad to hear that Saigon is getting its patio out.  That will add to the street's MoJo.  Will Lola ever have a patio?  I can probably find this out on my own, but...

They had one last year, but didn't use it.  I don't understand why they seem to object to the notion.

They had one last year, but didn't use it.  I don't understand why they seem to object to the notion.

 

Has anyone asked?

"I don't want to take advantage of the forum by advertising my place too much!"

 

Valerie, I think you have a good grasp on the difference between mentioning your place (or happy hour specials which I absolutely love to hear about) vs. gratuitous mentioning-your-place-in-every-single-post-whether-relevant-or-not. It's the same guidelines we give to the realtors on the forum - as long as you're upfront about who you are (or what business you represent), and aren't spamming the boards, it's all good :-)

 

 

I guess I could see why Lola wouldn't use outdoor dining.  Sometimes E4th has some rif raf from Indians games that patrons may not want to deal with if they're dropping $150 on dinner.  But I personally like sitting outsid regardless.

I've heard variations on that argument before, but it still doesn't make sense to me.  If people don't want to be subjected to what is going on out on the street, they can still sit inside.  The only other thing I can think of is that they can't really handle the extra capacity because of service or cooking line limitations.

I guess I could see why Lola wouldn't use outdoor dining.  Sometimes E4th has some rif raf from Indians games that patrons may not want to deal with if they're dropping $150 on dinner.  But I personally like sitting outsid regardless.

 

I don't buy that. You're an architect there are so many ways to use that space.  Correct? 

 

• You put up bamboo or other greenery to block that noise or "intrusion" to your meals
  
• There are various styles of tents they could use which would block noise, but still give folks privacy and it doesn't obstruct the flow of the street
  
• Use the space as an outdoor lounge and serve small plates.
  

 

 

So to say they don't use it because of "undesirables" coming past is horse poop!

 

^I really don't think any of us want to see E4th spatially coopted by tents and fences beyond the stupid little fences the city's puritantical alcohol laws already force them to put up.

 

I agree with X- it never hurts to offer options (gramps can stay inside if he's offended by rowdy fans), but I can understand W28th's comments: proximity to Gateway is great for business, but it doesn't exactly lend a classy air to the street on game day.  Watching drunk cavs fans pick a fight with some sad Pistons fans last June (with a crowd of some of our classier neighbors chanting "F him up" over and over again) was not great street theater for people dropping big money for dinner.

Isn't that all apart of the urban experience??

 

Ok, I see you kids cant visualize what I'm speaking off, so you don't "get" what I mean.  I'm not talking about a huge tent you would see at a wedding or fences.  What I propose would not take away from the ambiance of the street or disconnect one establishment for the other.

 

On the flip side, only the people dropping $150 are the only concern?

 

I'd really like to know why - from Lola - they don't use their outdoor space.

Thanks, May Day.  Since you mentioned it, I will say one of our HH deals in $3 pints which are all great beers, Great Lakes, Guinness, Magic Hat 9, Sierra Nevada, Stella Artois, etc.  Great for 4th street and a patio, IMO.  Also we are a bar so we don't kick drinkers off of the patio to accommodate diners! 

 

I'll see what I can find out about Lola viz a viz the patio.  I will try to keep the heardsay & "hands" to a minimum, i.e I will get as close to the source as possible.  :wink2:

 

Unless of course a Lola rep posts on their own. :wtf: