It is/was an Irish pub style eatery planned for the space at the southwest corner of East 4th and Euclid (in the Windsor Building).

 

I highly recommend learning how the forum's search function works. It will search for key words at whatever level you're viewing. For example, if you typed in "Blackfinn" while viewing this thread - it will only pull up posts from this thread. If you typed in "Blackfinn" on the forum's home page, it will pull up every post/thread on the forum containing "Blackfinn". It's actually pretty handy for finding out the answers to questions that have been answered a few times :-)

CHECK IT OUT -- Love from the NY Times:

 

An Enclave of Entertainment in Cleveland

Barney Taxel for The New York Times

Published: July 7, 2009

 

CLEVELAND — Coal and steel and steam were the foundations of Cleveland’s 20th-century rise to a prosperous city of nearly one million people — at one point the nation’s fifth-largest. But, today the city is much, much smaller, and its economy relies more on good food, drink and experiences.

 

This is highly apparent along 450 feet of East Fourth Street, site of a 600,000-square-foot mixed-use historic redevelopment that The Cleveland Plain Dealer, the city’s major newspaper, has characterized as “the jewel of Cleveland’s entertainment district.”

 

About a third of the $110 million project is retail space and two-thirds is housing. The redeveloped area has 14 restaurants, eight bars, a 16-lane bowling alley, a coffee shop, a theater, a nightclub and a concert stage that attracts national acts. Above the restaurants, the developer, the Cleveland-based MRN Ltd., has built 322 rental apartments.

 

The last 64 units were finished in March and are being offered at attractive prices. A 1,200-square-foot apartment with two bedrooms and a bath goes for $1,200 a month, for example, said Ari Maron, 31, a partner in the family-owned company.

 

The current vitality of Fourth Street is the culmination of 15 years of work by the Maron family to turn a worn thoroughfare and its old buildings into a prime example of 21st-century urban redevelopment in the Midwest.

 

More at

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/realestate/commercial/08fourth.html?_r=1&ref=business&pagewanted=all

nice article.  but really, zocalo is the best mexican restaurant in ohio?!  okay, sure.  and apparently we only have one block of intact buildings in this city.  guess we should board up and go home.  a few strange statements in an otherwise nice piece.

I think those are the sort of things that happen when you have to rely on out of state newspapers for positive press.  :)

14 restaraunts?  What am I missing....

 

Flannery's

Lola

La Strada

Greenhouse Tavern

House of Blues

Wonder Bar

4th Street Bar and Grille

Pickwick

Saigon

Zocalo

Erie Island

 

That's 11, right?

Theresa's & Jimmy John's are considered part of east 4th... I'm assuming they are counting chinato as well.

Pizza place, the Bruel place just announced and Black Finn, maybe?

They may be including Quiznos and Jimmy Johns....

I find it interesting that it was in the "Real Estate" section.  Invest in Cleveland!

Corner Alley could account for one bar and one restaurant.

I think those are the sort of things that happen when you have to rely on out of state newspapers for positive press.  :)

 

Interesting point. I think The Plain Dealer is even worse, though! Why is it that every time I read an article that presents something positive about Cleveland, it seems as though the writers have this obligation to hint at crime, rust, and population loss? Or, the same Cleveland smears, for that matter....as if the problems we face are strictly endemic and exclusively Cleveland's! When they mention population loss, they cast a dark shadow over the entire region..as if people left the whole region all together, when maybe they've shifted to the suburbs, or just on the other side of the imaginary line. Regionally, we have lost too, but in the future we can focus on quality more than quantity. Sometimes less could lead to more. Anyway, otherwise it was a pretty good article.

Interesting little note... I noticed out walking today that there is a large for sale sign on the building adjacent to the sincere building that houses volk's.  This could be a very good thing.  Obviously the current owner hasn't had much interest in doing anything with it... Hopefully whoever gobbles it up will.

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=41.498349,-81.689653&spn=0,359.995188&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=41.498368,-81.689548&panoid=rIu3neI18aYoWSX-kcujgQ&cbp=12,341.33,,0,-2.12

Any chance Ari Maron could gobble it up? :)

I've heard nothing of that, but it would certainly be logical.

But if he was going to sell to Maron, it seems like he wouldn't need a sign.  Unless he's trying to get other investors/developers interested, raising the value of his property.

that would also be logical on the sellers end  :)  So long as they sell to someone who is interested in fixing that building up... I'll be happy. 

But if he was going to sell to Maron, it seems like he wouldn't need a sign. Unless he's trying to get other investors/developers interested, raising the value of his property.

 

Exactly...the seller is quite possibly testing the market to make sure he gets the maximum price out of the property.  I would expect (or at least hope) Maron ends up as the buyer.

^I'd actually be 100% OK if someone other than Maron bought it, as long they were going to do something with it (other than parking).  I like E4th a whole lot, but it's important to have multiple stakeholders experimenting and competing to keep it vital and varied, IMHO.

How bout we knock it over and put in a 20-story condo tower with first floor retail :-D :-P

I actually really like that building, it has some great details.  Just needs a little love.

How bout we knock it over and put in a 20-story condo tower with first floor retail :-D :-P

 

Please, no. Not when we have a sea of surface parking across the street.

Volks has been an institution in downtown for as long as I can remember. It would be nice if the building was actually renovated how it should look, but with keeping Volks? Maybe? Or not? PLEASE..Nooooo Parking lots.

I love the Volk's building and especially the signage.  We need those little storefronts with quirky little shops.  They make cities.

I think given it's placement in the historic district, anyone would have a very, very, very, very, difficult time getting that building down.

 

The only way to get around it is to do what was done in the early 1990s to the building (at Prospect & 4th) next to the Harry Buffalo downtown (originally Ferris Steakhouse but it had a common owner for both)... The building suddenly catches fire and is too severely damaged to save. So it has to be torn down for parking.

I love the Volk's building and especially the signage.  We need those little storefronts with quirky little shops.  They make cities.

 

Yes, I agree..some of these quirky signs actually add some character. So since this is a historic district, does anyone think the building will be saved? I also do not understand all the emphasis for 'parking' downtown. Decks maybe, underground ok..BUT, no surface lot crapola.

you mean kind of the way a chemical explosion ended the life cycle of a building over by prospect and 14th which had been owned by someone who wanted to turn it into a parking lot for a decade?  yes, unfortunatley, crap like that is always possible.

I love the Volk's building and especially the signage. We need those little storefronts with quirky little shops. They make cities.

 

I'd love to keep all 3 of those businesses... i just don't want to see the building crumbling with broken out windows.

Exactly. There are a million ways to get around the law if you don't mind breaking another law to get there.

Is Volks still open?

yup.

I think given it's placement in the historic district, anyone would have a very, very, very, very, difficult time getting that building down.

 

Interesting.  Do the historic district protections extend to the "goldfish" block of buildings on prospect directly south of the Flannery's/Buckeye building?

Those buildings are part of the lower Prospect and Huron Roads Historic District.  At this point anyone who would want to demo one of those buildings would have to make a case before the landmarks comission. 

I think given it's placement in the historic district, anyone would have a very, very, very, very, difficult time getting that building down.

 

Interesting.  Do the historic district protections extend to the "goldfish" block of buildings on prospect directly south of the Flannery's/Buckeye building?

 

 

I would love to see the 'goldfish' buildings renovated. Those are eyesores for 4th nearby. A bit dark and desolate too. But I would want the existing businesses to stay. Even if these buildings were washed somehow, it would make a difference.

the only business left over there is the family sportswear store.  all the other businesses are shuttered.

Those buildings are part of the lower Prospect and Huron Roads Historic District. At this point anyone who would want to demo one of those buildings would have to make a case before the landmarks comission.

 

Thanks.  I've always had this ominous feeling when looking at those buildings that they would eventually become surface parking.  It's good to know that there are some controls in place to at least restrict that from happening.

I think the city learned after the Warehouse District was so leveled by parking lots. I'm very thankful for that historical designation.

Not to pull this thread off-topic for more than a brief sec, but McCleveland, do you know if the same kind of protections exist on Superior between 19th and 26th(ish), where a historic designation was sought for the corridor a year and a half ago or so? Or to the existing Warehouse District stock? And to what degree is protection of the buildings built into the Landmark review? It seems that quite a few buildings (some that are arguably of historic note, although none recently that I can think of in the CBD) have been given relatively quick demolition approval.

 

If this is too off-topic, feel free to PM me, but it does seem to have relevance to the area directly adjacent to E. 4th.

I pretty much just stay involved with the downtown stuff, though after a quick internet search see that there was an application for a Superior Avenue Historic District from 1860-2553 submitted in January of 2007... it is not however listed as a historic district on the landmarks website so I am not sure what happened.  The Warehouse district is a both a National Register Historic District as declared by the Secratary of the Interior as well as a Cleveland Landmark district.  We didn't just learn from the demolition of the Warehouse District, we were inspired by it.  In the early 80's there was a movement to try and tear down the Bradley Building for a parking lot, there were groups of people who stayed in the building round the clock to ensure it wouldn't go.  That movement birthed the Historic Warehouse District Development Coprporation.  In 1982 the last building in the Warehouse District was torn down on West 9th Street.  The next night there was a candle light vigil held in front of the demolished structure.  About a week later the district won the Cleveland Landmark designation and later that year it was added to the National Historic Register.  Not a single building has been torn down since.  Most historic districts, like East 4th have similar stories.  The protection, once designated, is that anyone who wants to tear down a building in a desigated historic district has to face a panel of 11 preservation minded people and state their case for demolition (or building alteration for that matter).  Buildings don't have to be in a historic district to gain landmark status but it certainly doesn't hurt.  It also doesn't guarantee that a building won't be demolished as we've seen this year with the buildings at 55th and Euclid.  Fact is those buildings were structurally unstable, would have cost millions of dollars just to stabilize not even thinking of development costs, the non profits certainly couldn't afford it, and they were unable to find a developer willing to take the chance of investing so much in them... so very sadly, their time was up.  But I would say the odds of the landmarks commission approving the demolition of a perfectly good, architecturally and historically significant building in one of these districts is pretty close to zero (unless of course the cleveland clinic is involved).

 

Demolition may have run rampant in Cleveland during the 60's, 70's, and early 80's... but very quietly Cleveland has become a leader nationwide in preservation and restoration.  Cleveland ranks 3rd in the country over the last 20 years in number of preservation and restoration projects behind Charleston, SC and someone else... my brain must have stopped working.  People come from all over the country to see how we do what we do here.

 

Unfortunately as many strides as we're making in some areas there are some unbelievably shortsighted people demolishing faster in some areas than districts can be created  ***cough, east of Jacobs Field, cough***.

 

End of preservation rant let's try to keep this to East 4th development.

I think preservation is a part of the East 4th topic, and is a reason why we still have its buildings (most of them anyway) to enjoy. I'm still pissed the L-shaped building behind the one that has Flannery's was demolished.

 

EDIT: So while Googling to find the name of the building that has Flannery's in it, I found the New York Times article! I didn't realize it had already been posted here.... Thanks Mayor McCleveland! (see below)

The Buckeye Building.

Went to East 4th last night after an appetizer fundraiser at progressive field...it was hoppin!  I usually stay around lakewood when i go out, but for a thursday night it was alive and my uncle from out of town (originally from CLE) was impressed and proud of Cleveland.

 

Walking to my car though, I did take a good look at those buildings across prospect from flannery's and see much potential to restore and make the neighborhood grow.  I hope the approrpiate people have considered this.

I was there last night too. I love it, but there is something that concerns me about the long term future of E. 4th.......that it would start swaying in the direction of becoming just another version of The Flats...with only drinking/eating establishments. Here we go again! There needs to be more than this alone in that area...more diversity.

 

Not everyone, especially stakeholders/residents who get up and work the next day, want to do the party/bar scene ALL the time. So, it is imperative some more intertwined galleries, and retail that actually add to making the 'neighborhood' FUNCTIONAL for daily needs, must be implemented. If people spend a hefty pile of cash to either rent there or purchase a condo....I don't think they will want to have to get in the car and drive to suburbs for other needs. That defeats the purpose of the urban neighborhood. I just think so far, as much as I like this district, that it is going one way. I hope I am wrong. I am by no means trying to be a Debbie Damper on East 4th, but think about it.

 

 

Lastly, I am surprised, since this is such a well run and maintained area, that the empty space on the west corner of 4th and Euclid has, in the meanwhile, been left for so long, with cracked door windows, smeared glass and a bunch of construction-like mess, which is clearly visible.

 

Until someone rents this space, or any other like space for that matter, it would be good to place some sort of signage, display, or art, murals in the windows to exude future activity....or a display that would inspire, and demonstrate just how nice a downtown storefront can look for a future business. 

 

Such a scenario would not deter potential businesses, either, by suggesting that the space is already occupied.......because such empty places have already sat for ages with the old shoe polish smeared windows with the "For Rent" sign hanging.

 

 

Displays would inspire future possible business, and make the place look a hell of a lot better in the meanwhile. Nothing exudes depression more than seeing empty storefronts that actually look ghostly empty. Instead someone can look at something that would help to stir ideas.

I was there last night too. I love it, but there is something that concerns me about the long term future of E. 4th.......that it would start swaying in the direction of becoming just another version of The Flats...with only drinking/eating establishments. Here we go again! There needs to be more than this alone in that area...more diversity.

 

Not everyone, especially stakeholders/residents who get up and work the next day, want to do the party/bar scene ALL the time. So, it is imperative some more intertwined galleries, and retail that actually add to making the 'neighborhood' FUNCTIONAL for daily needs, must be implemented. If people spend a hefty pile of cash to either rent there or purchase a condo....I don't think they will want to have to get in th car and drive to suburbs for other needs. That defeats the purpose of the urban neighborhood. I just think so far, as much as I like this district, that it is going one way. I hope I am wrong. I am by no means trying to be a Debbie Damper on East 4th, but think about it.

 

I agree 1000%.  There's more to life than drinking and "noshing" or whatever it is they say in reviews these days.  Downtown is starting to become a broken record.  We're the Martini District!  No WE are!  No... WE are!  Enough already. 

I agree, that corner does look like Sh!t.  I think McCleveland mentioned the development could start up again there in the near future.

 

Also... I heard the litigation tying up the former Blackfinn space across from corner alley has been resolved bringing that back into play.

 

Sounds like whatever the issue was prevented much of anyhting happing there.  Thus its terrible visage.

Yes, I agree with the two posts that responded to my original.... The Blackfinn.. Hmmm..indeed another restaurant/pub...that's swell, but still, if I lived there (I live on the near west side but support downtown a lot) it would be nice to have a food market with real freshly baked breads, NO FRITO LAY products, a real fruit market that sold local produce when possible. (I know we have the many farm markets and WSM too, but I am referring to something that serves daily needs right within a 5-10 minute walk) Maybe a section that has light hardware needs like light bulbs, electric, and simple basics... How about a local furniture maker or linens...

 

What I am trying to say is we need more of the basics that such a walkable neighborhood needs for residents. It would be attractive to future residents who actually chose to live right there. Afterall, you can only eat and party so much until you have to live daily life...and to me, a real neighborhood, as in the origin of neighborhood's past, had all the daily essentials very close. I do not want to have to have such a place like 668 Euclid, and have to drive over to Steelyard. That is not the kind of experience I would want to be paying for if I invest in such an urban core neighborhood.

 

Also, and I know I may get bashed for this...But, if it is going to be predominantly eating.. Then for Pete's sake, PLEASE... Not everyone likes eating grease, meat, and bar food..and some like to eat REAL exclusive vegetarian cuisine. Not just menus where vegetarian is an afterthought option. But food where such can be found on the island of Kauai at Blossoming Lotus, Youngstown with Flaming Ice Cube, Akron with Vegeterranean.

 

I know there are some great restaurants here at 4th, but it does lack one important element...and that is, catering to the spending power of a very high vegetarian population in this part of Ohio. If it is going to be another culinary type district....then you cannot ignore real art of vegetarian cuisine and cooking. It is much much  more than a few pieces of lettuce and a cherry tomato. Most people have not been exposed to just how divine the cuisine can be. And when they do get exposed to it, they're in for the shock pleasant surprise of their life.

 

Anyway, yesterday was nice in the afternoon at Flannery's with the Irish music outside. Much more to my taste. Then night came and all the Flatsy-like kiddie crowd was there...filling the air with smoke. That's when I say... Not my cup of tea. When you reach a point you develop other interests, you see how important creating a neighborhood of economic diversity, offering something for everyone is, in maintaining long term stake holding residents.

 

 

Let's do this right. Look how crappy the Flats became. I don't know how many times I scraped vomit off my shoes back in the late 80's!

Such a scenario would not deter potential businesses, either, by suggesting that the space is already occupied.......because such empty places have already sat for ages with the old shoe polish smeared windows with the "For Rent" sign hanging.

 

The Maron's could have filled up their storefronts in a heartbeat once the neighborhood took off.  But, we all know they are doing it in a deliberate way, and selecting their choices from a presumebly long list of offers/choices (altough BlackFinn tie-up was not part of the plan I'm guessing)

 

I do, however, agree that art or "moving pictures" would improve that last piece of property ten fold on E.4th and Euclid...I too wonder if the BlackFinn lawsuit did not even allow them to do anything at all with the property.

We may have discussed this somewhere upthread, but I still think a cooking school and gourmet equipment/ingredient store would be good somewhere around here.  The Blackfinn site may not be big enough, but this could be a nice ground floor tenant to spur another nearby renovation.

I like that idea, 327!