We may have discussed this somewhere upthread, but I still think a cooking school and gourmet equipment/ingredient store would be good somewhere around here.  The Blackfinn site may not be big enough, but this could be a nice ground floor tenant to spur another nearby renovation.

 

Isn't the May Company building getting something like that?

 

EDIT: well ...    http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/tric_to_rent_space_in_old_may.html

We may have discussed this somewhere upthread, but I still think a cooking school and gourmet equipment/ingredient store would be good somewhere around here.  The Blackfinn site may not be big enough, but this could be a nice ground floor tenant to spur another nearby renovation.

 

Isn't the May Company building getting something like that?

 

Is it?  That would be great.

 

EDIT:  Tri-C isn't exactly what I had in mind, but it's still pretty cool.  My cherished retail aspect seems to be lacking from their plan.

Memories! The May Company, when it was actually The May Company, was a great store.. it had everything and of higher quality. 

 

A cooking supply store would be good. That's an idea. Tower City has that new sea salt/oil store...  for cooking.  Anyway, I would hope that such a fabulous structure of the May Company, will not just have CR there.

E.C., I don't think you'll find many folks here who disagree with you that it would be awesome to have more retail amenities on E4th.  If you don't get a lot of affirmation here, it's because this topic has been discussed ad nauseum on various threads already.  The broad (but not unanimous) consensus is that the lack of retail is not because the developers or leaders lack vision, or because folks like us haven't thought of it, but because in the eyes of retailers, there simply isn't the market demand necessary to sustain non-bar/restaurant enterprise at this point.  Juicing the downtown population (like 668) will help change this we all hope, but not overnight.

 

Note that this is a bigger problem than just downtown...non-shopping center retail in the City of Cleveland is pretty moribund.

Just a fleeting thought.. Are there any "East 4th Street" T-shirts anywhere?

eesh.  I don't think the flats and east 4th street are remotely comparable.  Nor is it with the warehouse district.  It is much more of a restaurants row a la 46th street in NYC but more intimate.  Nowhere else do we attract such a wide range of demographics, from little kids to twenty and thirty somethings, to people in their 50's and twilight years.  While flannery's and corner alley attract the younger drinking crowd, other places attract more sophisticated diners and drinkers, and most all of these places are family friendly.  Flannery's and corner alley are really the only two "party places" on the street.  I agree that an art gallery or vegetarian place would be a great addition, though I have no idea what they are planning.  Blackfinn's inclusion is not a definite, though I did hear at one point that they may be taking the space in the McRory Building in the middle of the street.  That was far from a done deal.  My guess is the spot on the SW corner of 4th and Euclid, which was in litigation for over a year, and was just resolved within the past monthish, will be getting a completely new storefront so simply replacing the glass probably would be a waste of money, though it certainly is a HUGE eyesore, and we all can't wait for that space to be filled.  No idea how quickly that will happen, it's not exactly easy to close deals right now.  The Maron's have put a great deal of thought into the lineup they have, and have turned down many people interested in taking spots.  I'm sure they'll use the same care and consideration in leasing the final 2 storefronts.

 

Also, I know people love to complain about it all the time, but I assure people after living downtown for several years, tower city does still in fact exist and though I wouldn't ever go "shopping" there, you can still get a great many things there.  I know this because I use it. Bath & Body Works, Borders Express, Brooks Brothers, Champs Sports, The Cleveland Store, Designer Perfumes, Foot Locker, fye: music and movies, GameStop, GNC, Johnston & Murphy, Lady Foot Locker, Lids, Nine West, Payless Shoe Source, The Olive and The Grape, Revol Wireless, T-Mobile, Trade Secret, Victoria's Secret, White Barn Candle Co. are all places that people on East 4th street and other downtown residents use all the time to get the things they need.  There are also places like M. Lang that offer a great selection men's business attire at fantastic prices.  And while the couple times a year I decide I do want to go "shopping" I find myself out in the suburbs it is a very small price to pay for all the wonderful amenities available to me on foot that allow me and my wife to live car light extremely easily.  Also, the Euclid Avenue retail plan is not a myth it is very real, has the approval and backing of many downtown property owners and stakeholders, and work is being done to finalize a contract with the company that will be responsible for implementing it.  Believe it or not, people actually work on this stuff.

 

Now... let's PLEASE not take this thread any further into the shopping needs of overall downtown residents.  Gracias  :wink:

Just one comment about the pacing of the street.  By having one place open every 6 months or so, it re-energizes the street with newness.  I always thought Clevelanders will try something once, check it out, if they like it the place will be hopping for a while, then fade away. 

Remember Dave and Busters on the west side when they opened?  It was something like an hour wait to get in.

 

If all parts of E. 4th opened with House of Blues, it would be old news by now.

 

That is my humble opinion.  I think Maron not only did it right, what they did was nearly revolutionary.  Good for them!

Agreed.  It's also continuing to grow... the amount of foot traffic and patio sitters this year as opposed to even last year even on Tuesday and Wednesday nights (weather permitted of course) is remarkable.

Agreed, the Marons couldn't have done this any better.  Their contribution to Cleveland's present and future is immeasurable.  I think the next step is promoting East 4th, and downtown generally, to make it as much a national attraction as the Flats were.

I never meant in my posts to say they (Marons) did anything wrong. On the contrary, I like what I see happening and do not want it to evolve into things of the past..and just thought that in and near that district, that they needed a few more important elements to make it more complete. McCleveland, you are right... Tower City is much still there. I like the retail plan because it disperses the retail through out downtown which encourages more exploration and foot traffic downtown...and does not polarize it into districts. It actually connects the dots, so to speak. And implementing window displays (as do many malls until they fill the voids) would just be a better site than seeing such a site as empty site on Est 4th and Euclid. That is really a simple thing to do. Gives artists a chance to have fun.

Whoever is in charge of the website needs to keep it updated for out of towners who seek it.  It still has erie island and greenhouse as "coming soon" and the last newsletter is August 2008.

Whoever is in charge of the website needs to keep it updated for out of towners who seek it.  It still has erie island and greenhouse as "coming soon" and the last newsletter is August 2008.

 

I'm sure you dropped them an email, right??

While I would love another bar to go in on 4th (I'm a CSU Student). I agree that something else should be in there. I would like to see an upscale tanning salon go in. I used to go with the girls in my dorm to the salon near public square and I have to say, what a DUMP! While a tanning salon is not "artsy" or "unique" I think downtown could use an upscale tanning salon. It wouldn’t contribute to night life but it could do well, and be busy. Not to mention, after 15 min of lying in a hot tanning booth those people are going to need a drink. "Where to go..... Bars and restaurants just foot steps away.

While I would love another bar to go in on 4th (I'm a CSU Student). I agree that something else should be in there. I would like to see an upscale tanning salon go in. I used to go with the girls in my dorm to the salon near public square and I have to say, what a DUMP! While a tanning salon is not "artsy" or "unique" I think downtown could use an upscale tanning salon. It wouldn’t contribute to night life but it could do well, and be busy. Not to mention, after 15 min of lying in a hot tanning booth those people are going to need a drink. "Where to go..... Bars and restaurants just foot steps away.

 

I think that is a good idea.  I don't fake tan, nor do I really understand the orange glow some prefer to get from it, but tanning beds are in demand among young people.  I think they are planning a tanning salon for the 668 building, which is just down the street from E.4th.

While I would love another bar to go in on 4th (I'm a CSU Student). I agree that something else should be in there. I would like to see an upscale tanning salon go in. I used to go with the girls in my dorm to the salon near public square and I have to say, what a DUMP! While a tanning salon is not "artsy" or "unique" I think downtown could use an upscale tanning salon. It wouldn’t contribute to night life but it could do well, and be busy. Not to mention, after 15 min of lying in a hot tanning booth those people are going to need a drink. "Where to go..... Bars and restaurants just foot steps away.

 

I think that is a good idea.  I don't fake tan, nor do I really understand the orange glow some prefer to get from it, but tanning beds are in demand among young people.  I think they are planning a tanning salon for the 668 building, which is just down the street from E.4th.

 

 

This can be a good idea, but in a prime space such as 4th and Euclid, I am not so sure that would be the place. That's a large space and a showcase space...and I would like to think we can showcase something a bit more than tanning spas. Not to downplay the idea...as I am not, but that can be implemented more in a gym environment already downtown. Maybe they can offer expanded facilities for such. E. 4th is also for visitors and I doubt the latest tanning spa will beacon to them and have them arriving in droves. Isn't there a spa in the Arcade? Or is that just massage, etc?... 

 

I suggested, if it is going to be food/drink oriented, then one element lacking at 4th is an exclusive vegetarian establishment that specializes in this cuisine art (not just a place with veg, options as an afterthought, but exclusive with exclusive veg chefs) such as Vegeterranean in Akron, Ice Cube in Youngstown. The best I have ever been to was Blossoming Lotus on the island of Kauai.

 

As for functional places to serve the needs of residents, we could always use another nice higher end grocer...(preferably no chains) or even a 'fresh food district' (produce) eventhough WSM isn't far and the farm markets come, still...another fruit market, bakery, etc. is due, offering local foods whenever possible and when in season. This would be good AS LONG AS, it would not put the markets already downtown out of business. Can the downtown sustain it, is the question. There is already a Daves, Constantinos, The place in Reserve Square, etc. Could we have room for one more smaller store?

 

Even a small hardware store that caters to the quick needs of residents who would want to walk 5-10 minutes away, and do not necessarily enjoy walking in a huge Home Depot type place more suited for building a house, to pick up a few things..... and would rather, prefer a place to pick up the basic needs, like light bulbs, extension cords pails, cleaning supplies, batteries, simple plumbing needs like washers, spigots, etc...basic tools, some paints, etc.

 

My idea is having it a comfortable balance between offering the attractions for visitors, and the essential needs for residents to make it functional. There are a lot of needs served there...a few more would make it just right. I know there ARE some suppliers like this on the near east side, but they're more for contractors and such.

a tanning salon?  Lawd!  NO!  just NO.

 

 

I can see a nice hip spa, like a Bliss spa since E. 4th is within their target audience.

a chocolate bar w/ peanuts AND vodka could open on E4........

------------------------------------------------

http://www.clevelandepicure.com/

Digg This

June 16, 2009

Chocolate Bar Coming to Cleveland!

 

"Last year Mrs. Epicure and I made a trip to Buffalo with the usual suspects M&J to visit our good friend C and his family.  Luckily for us, his uncle owns an amazing chocolate/martini bar called the Chocolate Bar.

 

And now, luckily for all Clevelanders, the first franchised Chocolate Bar is coming to our fair city sometime later this year, if all goes well.

 

The location will be at the intersection of Euclid and East 4th, just north of the hopping pedestrian street that houses Greenhouse Tavern, Saigon, La Strada, Erie Island Coffee Co. and Lola, of course.

 

So, for all of the naysayers who think that the good stuff goes everywhere else, this is just one more example of how Cleveland is transforming itself into a center of culinary excellence and excitement that people want to invest in and make even better."

 

---------------------------------------------

In this post, I forgot to say how very much I enjoy chocolate micxed with hot peppers, milk, cinnamon, coffee, cheese, hot sauce, etc.  Chocolate is really really good.

 

I believe this is going in the old vivo space... this actually fits the description perfectly of what I was told would be going in there...

^^ On the north side of Euclid?? Perhaps the ground floor of 515?

 

^ Where is the old vivo space?

 

^ Where is the old vivo space?

 

Arcade, space just west of the euclid entrance

Hopefully this only leads to more movement down Euclid in terms of new businesses opening.  Anyone have any idea of a tentative opening?  or is this in too much of the preliminary stages to have any specific target dates?

i've heard they have a letter of intent signed on the space, and are working out the details of the lease agreement.  I can't imagine it would take them too long once the lease is signed, I'm sure they'll want to change it up a bit, but that is a pretty nice space and shouldn't need a ton of work.  Maybe sometime this fall?

Here's the Buffalo Chocolate Bar's website:

 

http://www.buffalochocolatebar.com/home.html

I almost wanted to eat my computer. But it wouldn't taste like chocolate.

Isn't that space somewhat large for another martini bar theme? Or, will it serve a full menu?

Isn't that space somewhat large for another martini bar theme? Or, will it serve a full menu?

 

which space? 

Isn't that space somewhat large for another martini bar theme? Or, will it serve a full menu?

 

Click the link and find the answers that you seek, my friend!

I had a look at this.. Wonderful....really.. I hope it does well.. But again, yet another establishment serving predominantly meat dishes, and that's fine.....But I'll say it again, if this district is going to evolve into a culinary district, as I see often mentioned, it lacks a very important element. An exclusive vegan/vegetarian cuisine venue. There is a lot of money those who prefer a non-meat based diet can spend in this area...and who would like to see more exclusive options such as Vegeterranean in Akron, Ice Cube, Youngstown, and Blossoming Lotus on Kauai... and many others----and not have this excellent cuisine be an afterthought on menus, or 'option'. These places don't just attract vegetarians, they attract many who would like something different for a change. Cannot believe the district still lacks that one exclusive element in what is a very diverse and spectacular menu to be offered. Maybe I'll have to start it myself. And MTS, don't even start.

 

I hope this place does well.... Good to see another void filled. Looks like some pretty nifty things to do with the drinks and chocolate. I was watching on the food channel about the liquid nitrogen infused drinks...and this place looks like it could launch some pretty interesting drink ideas in its own right. The spices in the chocolate are great...It is sort of how the ancient Mayans used to drink it!

"meat dishes? it's a chocolate bar"

 

 

Go look at the menu!

 

But it's a chocolate bar first.  It's called the chocolate bar.  Isn't Greenhouse Tavern do a lot of vegetarian/vegan food?

GHT's menu is rather small.... but they do have a veggie dish and I believe everything is organic.  The problem with an exclusively veggie restaraunt is that people that need some 'sustenance' with their meal will not want to go with their veggetarian friends/family to eat there.  Two of my sisters and my mom are all veggetarians so we often have this problem.  We usually compromise on places like Lemongrass or Cafe Tandoor where everybody can get what they want.

"meat dishes? it's a chocolate bar"

 

 

Go look at the menu!

 

But it's a chocolate bar first. It's called the chocolate bar. Isn't Greenhouse Tavern do a lot of vegetarian/vegan food?

 

They serve soup, salads and sandwiches, not steaks.  I don't think most people will go there for their sandwiches, maybe at lunch.

 

I have to agree, Greenhouse is as close to that type of clientele that one would want to get to.  Personally, I don't think an all vegan bar could survive in this social climate.  I could only see that in CA.

This is a Martini/Desert bar that happens to have 10 or so items that contain meat on the menu, and most of those are sandwiches.  The appetizers section while small is entirely vegetarian.  It's certainly not a vegetarian/vegan hangout but it's not a steakhouse or traditional eatery either.

I was hoping that Vivo would re-open because I thought it would benenfit from the restaurant row of E. 4th.  But it is nice to see Euclid Ave getting another boost as E. 4th is having another spin off development.

 

How is Caddy Ranch doing lately?

Here is a thread about Vegetarian dining options in Cleveland

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,18724.0.html

 

 

I was hoping that Vivo would re-open because I thought it would benenfit from the restaurant row of E. 4th. But it is nice to see Euclid Ave getting another boost as E. 4th is having another spin off development.

 

How is Caddy Ranch doing lately?

 

Totally off topic but I drove past there today and people were outside holding labor dispute banners or something the Ranch.

I was hoping that Vivo would re-open because I thought it would benenfit from the restaurant row of E. 4th.  But it is nice to see Euclid Ave getting another boost as E. 4th is having another spin off development.

 

How is Caddy Ranch doing lately?

 

 

They're out there just about every day picketing outside. And some of them park there cars at the soldiers and sailors monument trying to blend in with the construction workers cars. Went in Friday around 3pm and there were a few tables and people sitting at the bar. Back to East 4th street!!

Totally off topic but I drove past there today and people were outside holding labor dispute banners or something the Ranch.

I heard construction on the new Zach Bruell restaurant should begin in about 2 weeks.  :)

I've heard similar as well...

Is that the parcel in the middle of the street that is currently boared up?

No, it's the one on the ground floor of the sincere building across from flannery's.

No, it's the one on the ground floor of the sincere building across from flannery's.

 

Only one more corner space to go!

What is going in that space?  And now that you say that I do recall seeing workerrs going in and out.  So if construction is just starting I would not have seen them previously. 

 

Aside: Wake up Brain time to work again.

Chinato (Italian cuisine), Zack Bruell's newest restaurant, should be opening by the end of October.

Chinato (Italian cuisine), Zack Bruell's newest restaurant, should be opening by the end of October.

 

2 months? I'll be watching and hopefully they can get it done, but that doesnt seem like enough time to me. Best of luck

Bang and Clatter theatre closed :-(

 

http://www.cleveland.com/onstage/index.ssf/2009/09/the_bang_and_the_clatter_theat_1.html

Bang and Clatter theatre closed :-(

 

I hate to say it, but I kinda saw this coming...  My girlfriend and I went to Bang and Clatter in Cleveland when it first opened.  The performance itself was GREAT but it didn't feel like the business end of it was run very well.  Alcohol was free which, while nice for us, couldn't have helped their bottom line.  They would also let people in free all the time.  Kind of like a "pay what you can" system.  Again, that's nice and all, but if you're running a business, don't expect to stay around for long.

 

Another time we won tickets but when we showed up for the performance, they said it was canceled.  They didn't even call us to let us know.  Many other times we would walk by and it always looked like it was closed.  I actually haven't heard about any performances their in months and I'm more plugged into Cleveland's art scene than the average citizen... 

 

I hope they find other entertaining, non-bar or restaurant tenant to fill that space.

Really sad. As a note, they are completely folding ... ending both their Akron and Cleveland operations, not just losing this particular location.

Wow, I'm so sorry to hear about this.

:(

I was just asking someone Saturday night how Bang and Clatter could possibly be doing well, I never see any motion there.