Finally, it looks like significant progress is being made at Lola. A large sign is up (as someone else mentioned in another thread), mounted 90 degrees to the building, and it looks like they've installed the bar.

 

Also, the boards on the ground floor of the Sincere Building have been removed, leaving the whole floor entirely open. I'm assuming this is for the Ingenuity Festival, but there's nothing in there yet. Anyone have any info?

Took this before the crowds came on Thursday. Too bad they could not have been open for the festival.

 

 

Also, I know this was talked about earlier in the thread, but what is really going to go on the lot on Prospect were ther is now a parking lot. Does anybody know for sure?

When I saw this blurb in Cool Cleveland, I was very excited:

 

"Finally, sidewalk cafes After spending some time recently in Europe, it's obvious: this town has to loosen up and put diners on the sidewalks. The city's zoning appeals board wisely voted to override concerns about having 20' clearance on East 4th Street, a street that was recently designed to be pedestrian-friendly. An idea we saw overseas: plastic bollards that easily break away, allowing safety vehicles through, while still controlling everyday traffic. Let's use a little creativity, Cleveland. "

 

But I come to find out that the mayor and Fire Department are appealing it, so it it's on hold again.  Hey JDD, can you pull some strings over there with the FD?

i think the code requires them to put landscaping here.

 

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/clevelandcodes/cco_part3_352.html

 

the city code, section 352.10 sets forth screening requirements as follows (i don't know how they are classifying this particular lot)

 

- Any open off-street loading space shall have a minimum screen barrier height of 6 feet. 

-

 

 

However, my guess is that this is a "temporary" lot, which would then fall under 325.03:

 

"(5) Temporary Uses. A temporary use shall not be subject to the provisions of this chapter if it has been issued a permit by the Commissioner of Building and Housing limiting its duration to two hundred seventy (270) days or less, or such a permit and no more than one renewal thereof for no more than ninety (90) additional days. Temporary "for hire" parking lots, however, shall be subject to the applicable requirements contained in Chapter 457 of the Codified Ordinances. "

 

In addition, section 457 requires the same.

 

I say we get Flannery's to use the "Lebron countdown to 21" timer for this parking lot. 

 

Anyone interested in performing a live reading of the aforementioned law to mr. mrn?

 

i am very interested in listening to his reasons for not putting any trees, even temp. pots or not painting a mural on the wall that jaimie mentioned, even a guinness advert would be fine. 

better yet, why not do both?

 

i'm sure mr. mrn cares about the city and wants to do what's best.

 

anyone interested in talking with the man behind mrn.  i would imagine the law would prove to be provacative persuasion.

im confident we could all come to a compromise.

 

it's great to discuss with all you fine intelligent folk, but i would like to try and do something more.  anyone interested?

 

 

btw, i believe flannery's to have bought by some CA folk, which explains the makeover to the "prototypical wooden Irish pub facade" 

 

 

Thanks, Guv.

On that note, I looked up the site on the auditors page and saw that MRN are not the owners of that particular parcel (or the one immediately to the west). It is owned, and has been for a couple of years, by Downtown Buildings, LLC.

Anybody heard of them? Is this just a different "firm" for Ari?

 

I was able to sneak a shot of the Corner Alley last night. Looks like there is still much to do.

 

 

And here are two more shots from Lola's

 

 

 

Musky,

 

thanks for the tip.

Downtown Buildings LLC is indeed MRN

http://pdfdl.oceighty.net/pdf2html.php?url=http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bza/agenda/crr6-6-05.pdf

9:30

Ward

13

Calendar No. 05-118:

711 Vincent Avenue

Joe Cimperman

6

Notices

MRN Limited aka Downtown Buildings LLC, owner, appeal to change from a nightclub to

a parking garage the use of an existing two-story brick building, situated on acreage

located in a General Retail Business District on the south side of Vincent Avenue at 711

Vincent Avenue; subject to the requirements of Section 343.18©, the driveway along

Vincent Avenue that provides access to the property must be located so that there is not

less than 15' is between the point of tangency of the driveway apron radius and a

prolongation of the property line to the curb line measured at the curb line.

(Filed 4-26-05)

 

this is certainly moving away from the intent of the restaurant thread.  where to move this new discussion?

It should go under projects. E.4th is large enough to merit its own thread.

Wow, I don't think we're going to see an opening for the Corner Alley this fall if that's what they've got going in there right now!  Why is the pace of development and rehabilitation so glacial in this town?  These guys are just losing money with every day that passes with no revenue coming in!

 

Also, a bit further down the street, wouldn't it have been nice for Fantasy One to actually open in July as they had posted on their sign?  I bet they could've made a little money off of the Ingenuity crowd!  Talk about missing an opportunity due to sluggish construction...

Wow, I don't think we're going to see an opening for the Corner Alley this fall if that's what they've got going in there right now!  Why is the pace of development and rehabilitation so glacial in this town? These guys are just losing money with every day that passes with no revenue coming in!

 

 

try living in detroit

I took a peek in their windows this past weekend and saw that there has been no action in a while. The alley side was to be full of windows (where the squares are - the picture shows the only one actually cut out). The basement level, the only place where you can actually see what's going on, has also been left vacant for a while.

 

 

I checked out their webiste - http://www.fantasy-one.com/index.html - nothing updated.

I called the number provided - disconnected

 

Next call - Cimperman.

Why is the pace of development and rehabilitation so glacial in this town? 

 

GREAT question!

 

Any thoughts?

 

I would think:

 

--low expectations; largely as a result of 50+ years of decline

--

lack of a unified downtown living campaign

look at c-bus for inspiration

> http://www.downtowncolumbus.com/downtown_housing.php (BID)

>http://www.columbusretrometro.com (individual)

retrometro is one hell of a site, in a nutshell, that's one optimistic, driven individual with either a lot of free time or tech experience or both!

 

I think we, the people on this board who live in cleveland and are not involved in the planning profession and therefore have little to lose, ought to attempt action to change the tide.

 

well, I think our presence and our optimism have to be encouraging for leaders and developers, if they're paying attention.  much of the tide for development has swung back towards downtowns and inner city neighborhoods in recent years, but in my experience, Cleveland has seen development with much more caution than other places.  (Keep an eye out for my review of my weekend in Pittsburgh a little later on.)  The term "risk averse" is one I wish I'd never heard, but it seems to sum up the Cleveland development picture quite well!

Why is the pace of development and rehabilitation so glacial in this town?

 

Financing. 

 

You can't finance most of these developments as you would a residential property, with 10% or 20% down and a good interest rate.  Just doesn't happen.  So, you need more cash to get 30% or 40% down (using creative methods and other financing) and then you still are going to find a higher interest rate.   And, almost any property that is zoned commercial will not qualify for a residential rate, no matter what you plan to do with it (ie make it into a 3 story penthouse loft for yourself).

 

My guess is that fantasy is all privately financed and once they started, their $100,000 budget went quick, some of the investers balked at putting more cash in, contractors didn't get paid...and...you have what you have today...a halt. 

 

Unfortunately, a lot of the "old money" in Cleveland is sitting on the sidelines, building office parks and malls and other sprawl development near where they live.  We need to convince this money to get off the sidelines and actually support these projects, residential especially.

 

What is cheap (relatively)?  Printing out some nice color drawings and hyping your project, in hopes that a few more investors will jump on ship, or pre-sales will skyrocket so you can build your project.    That's again why I like stonebridge:  no hype, just building after building. 

Crews worked non-stop on Fantasy One for about a month, but no progress since May. However, the club was part of the walk and dine so maybe they haven't given up on it yet.

I think urbanlife is right. It's all about the financing. Until the local banks get riskier in making loans, the projects most likely to get off the ground are those that rely on sweat equity.

 

How exactly is Stonebridge working so well? The PeeDee should do an article about it.

How exactly is Stonebridge working so well? The PeeDee should do an article about it.

 

This is the story i'd like to see as well.  I think it has to do with a couple of factors:

- they started small.  had enough money together to get financing on the first building.  went half condo/half rental.  condos sold, providing cash for next building. 

- then they started converting rentals into condos in first buildings, raising more money to fund future down payments.

- they have been extremely innovative in cutting costs.  lightweight steel construction, pre-fab panels, etc.

 

does anyone know who is doing the financing for stonebridge?  at this point, it could be all in house. 

at stonebridge, apparently every condo sold in the last phase is helping to finance construction of the newest phase and so i guess it perpetuates..

Another factor mentioned in another thread would appear to be the infrastructure regulations.  I don't recall the thread's name but the gist was that new buildings must adhere to the new regulations for putting in new sewer lines that are not combined.  So if there is no separate sewer line going to a main trunk then they must build that in addition.  Depending on the location of the land to the trunk and the amount of roads that might need dug up,  could have pretty expensive upfront costs just to get the land ready to build.

I sent Fantasy-One an e-mail back in May and asked about the age limits for the club, thinking I'd be able to attend this summer. I had long since forgot about it, and then today I get an e-mail from them that said simple,  25+.

2 quick updates on fantasy one.

 

1) they have letters from a law firm taped to their entrances, titled "Hand Delivered".  Name of a construction LLC listed as addressee.

 

2) website now has this update:  "UPDATES:

OUT OF OUR HANDS, WE WILL NOT OPEN TIL' FALL 2006"

Can anyone tell me what is going on with the gutted street level space at E.4th and Prospect. I'm talking about the space across from Flannery's. It isn't just that they have no windows, they have no walls there! What's the deal?

^the owner is trying to get a restaurant into the space (possibly some sort of mexican place), however as you can tell, there would have to be a lot of work done, and with all the cement pillars, it would be a rather tough retrofit, imo.

 

the thing those condos miss is some parking.  too bad retrofit didn't have a ramp into the basement area for parking and the use that first floor space as a very luxurious lobby area.

^that corner demo/reno is the sincere building right? i saw that and took a pic. interesting. :clap:

 

 

 

re lola news: we stayed one night downtown at the hyatt at the arcade (this past friday night 7/28/06). heading to the tribe game via e4th we peeked into lola to see the progress. the bar top was being pressed together and there were five or six people working inside.

 

being so late in the day on a summer friday i took that as a good sign things are moving along, even if slowly.

 

 

^I know what you mean. In my neigbhorhood in the OC, I like that they are working 7 days a week on the old YMCA building.

Took a stroll down Euclid this week and saw that the Corner Bowling Alley construction doors were wide open... and not a soul to be seen.

 

 

^the owner is trying to get a restaurant into the space (possibly some sort of mexican place), however as you can tell, there would have to be a lot of work done, and with all the cement pillars, it would be a rather tough retrofit, imo.

 

How about a Burritoville?  Those are pretty small and stay open late...at least there should be one somewhere Downtown, now that Tequila Ranch deleted its burrito bar!

 

I'm no expert here, but the Corner Alley doesn't look like it'll be ready to roll in the Fall...maybe they need more public subsidy?  :wink:

 

One last comment...the old Sissler [edit: oops! I meant "Sisser"] space appears to have a different owner and I don't believe MRN is the developer.  Word on the streets is that they'll be converting the upper floors to condos and have been in conversations with a couple potential retailers.

where is the old Sissler space located?

Sisser's the one that used to have the Baseball History space in it.  It's old and brick and has a prominent fire escape up the front of it.  It's sandwiched somewhere between the new Lola space and the HoB.

thanks.

 

I walked by the bowling alley today. I agree that they have a long way to go, but they are working on the place.  the facade of the mcCrory building looks almost finished.

I had a long wait for the bus in front of the vacant space on the southeast corner of E. 4th & Prospect last night and got to daydreaming about what could go in there.  I settled on a cafe that features loads of window seats and other cozy tables with comfy chairs.  The Starbucks in the BP building certainly lacks the "sit and stay for a while" vibe and just isn't open very late.  Others in the neighborhood are small or have poor hours.  This one would ideally be locally owned (Phoenix? Arabica?) and would also feature a more substantial lunch menu than your standard cafe...pressed panini's, custom made sandwiches, etc...but would also be open late and of course, feature wi-fi access!  The nearest cozy cafe is Rocco's (Huron/Prospect), but that's a little small and becomes more of a bar later on anyway.  I'd definitely hit this place up on my way home from school/work to do a little reading and unwinding!  Any takers?

 

Finally, there's a new sign on the Sisser building... Condos for sale... 1,800 square feet, 2br 2.5ba.

I like the idea of an all night coffebar/lounge atmosphere.  Cleveland really doesn't have much of that sort of culture, though you' d think the one place it would exist would be downtown.  It would certainly complement the existing bar, restaurant, music, comedy, bowling! scene very well. 

 

I wonder if phoenix or arabica has been approached? 

 

I agree with your assessment that AJ Roccos is a good hangout, but less so in the evening when it switches to beer swilling.  Have you ever been to  Bella Dubby Cafe < www.edesigned.net/bela.htm > in Lakewood ?  Though they offer beer, it is less pronounced and the feel is more coffeeshop than bar. 

 

^Hmmm...nope!  But I'm definitely going to check it out!  I think they could definitely pull off something cozy and cafe-like and still have beer & wine.  La Cave du Vin on Coventry is a great example of a very civilized wine bar where you can sit for hours and have an intimate conversation at a reasonable volume.  So, something like that, but open from 7am - midnight or 2am or 24 hours! 

I had a long wait for the bus in front of the vacant space on the southeast corner of E. 4th & Prospect last night and got to daydreaming about what could go in there.  I settled on a cafe that features loads of window seats and other cozy tables with comfy chairs.  The Starbucks in the BP building certainly lacks the "sit and stay for a while" vibe and just isn't open very late.  Others in the neighborhood are small or have poor hours.  This one would ideally be locally owned (Phoenix? Arabica?) and would also feature a more substantial lunch menu than your standard cafe...pressed panini's, custom made sandwiches, etc...but would also be open late and of course, feature wi-fi access!  The nearest cozy cafe is Rocco's (Huron/Prospect), but that's a little small and becomes more of a bar later on anyway.  I'd definitely hit this place up on my way home from school/work to do a little reading and unwinding!  Any takers?

 

 

Reserve Square is in talks with Arabica about opening a shop there.

^did the Perfect Cup close?

Don't know.

It's all part of the reimaging project going on now.

Where would it go? 

on another note, apparently that new 'temporary' parking lot next to flannery's was supposed to have a 1 foot landscaped buffer and 4 foot aluminum fence. 

 

don't see either of these.

 

anybody have access to the plans that were approved?  i can't seem to find this online.

 

the city should probably shut this down ASAP until it is up to spec.  oh wait, this is cleveland city govt, where even keeping the street lights on appears to be too much to ask.  why would someone have to follow their approved plans?

Where would it go? 

 

I don't recall them saying where it will be, but there will be access from the outside instead of the inside (as it will be for all of the businesses currently located there).

 

on another note, apparently that new 'temporary' parking lot next to flannery's was supposed to have a 1 foot landscaped buffer and 4 foot aluminum fence. 

 

don't see either of these.

 

anybody have access to the plans that were approved?  i can't seem to find this online.

 

the city should probably shut this down ASAP until it is up to spec.  oh wait, this is cleveland city govt, where even keeping the street lights on appears to be too much to ask.  why would someone have to follow their approved plans?

 

Call Cimperman.

"Reserve Square is in talks with Arabica about opening a shop there."

 

Phoenix, yes. City Roast, absolutely. But Arabica? *groan*  :roll:

 

Now, if they could convince Cork and Beans to move from the Huntington Building  :clap:

Its good to see some movement inside the bowling alley-to-be.  There are a lot of workers milling around, wall studs being installed and some concrete flooring being poured.  I also like to watch as the McCrory facade slowly is restored to its original state.

I had a long wait for the bus in front of the vacant space on the southeast corner of E. 4th & Prospect last night and got to daydreaming about what could go in there.  I settled on a cafe that features loads of window seats and other cozy tables with comfy chairs.  The Starbucks in the BP building certainly lacks the "sit and stay for a while" vibe and just isn't open very late.  Others in the neighborhood are small or have poor hours.  This one would ideally be locally owned (Phoenix? Arabica?) and would also feature a more substantial lunch menu than your standard cafe...pressed panini's, custom made sandwiches, etc...but would also be open late and of course, feature wi-fi access!  The nearest cozy cafe is Rocco's (Huron/Prospect), but that's a little small and becomes more of a bar later on anyway.  I'd definitely hit this place up on my way home from school/work to do a little reading and unwinding!  Any takers?

 

Finally, there's a new sign on the Sisser building... Condos for sale... 1,800 square feet, 2br 2.5ba.

 

hey walking by that space i instantly thought of the very same thing. something like a french style cafe open to the streets and with streetside seating that wraps around prospect & e4th. very cool. seems like a good fit of an idea esp given all the groovy pillars inside.

 

well maybe it could be an office of some sort or a foyer for condo apts above, but that would really waste a great space for the rest of us.

 

fox 8 was doing an interview at lunch today in front of sincere building space.  there was some talk about stark and property values, but i couldn't watch the whole thing, so i don't really know what was going on.  was there news for e4 today?

fox 8 was doing an interview at lunch today in front of sincere building space.  there was some talk about stark and property values, but i couldn't watch the whole thing, so i don't really know what was going on.  was there news for e4 today?

 

I caught the story on the 6 o'clock news...they said that Lola should be opening within a month, and that the Corner Alley would be opening in November or December.

 

A little further into the package, they talked about apartments/condos in the area and went on to interview one of the managers of MRN, I think it was.  She said that they have negotiated with retailers for the area and that east 4th will be leased to capacity...they are just waiting to make the announcement on what retailers are moving in.

leased to capacity?!?!?  Great news. But, why are they waiting to make this announcement?

^Probaly verbal negotiations and agreements. 

Bad News: Where the old building was on Prospect.  It is indeed paved, with no fencing, trees, or other required elements for a surface lot in the CBD:

 

 

OK.  I dug up the Cleveland Board of Zoning Appeals Resolution for 211 Prospect Avenue from Feb 27, 2006. 

 

Here is the pertinent text:

 

"Access to the parking lot is from East 3rd Street.  In addition to a 6' landscpaed buffer strip, a textured wire fence will be installed along Prospect Avenue to support the growth of climbing vines and flowering plants to screen the lot." (emphasis added)

 

2 things:

1.  why would they need climbing vines for this 'temporary' use?

2.  who signed off on approval of this building permit?  he/she should be fired immediately. 

 

 

She said that they have negotiated with retailers for the area and that east 4th will be leased to capacity

 

yes, but when?  2 years from now?  seriously, we need more information!

Not sure how relevant this is to E. 4th so I won't post the entire article here.  The PD had an article today about the Maron's (E. 4th developer) penthouse which sits atop the old National City Bank building (now the Holiday Inn).  Here is the link to the story:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/living/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/living/115519874969400.xml&coll=2

Good to see about two semis worth of drywall being delivered to the bowling alley today.  It looks like they are really starting to move on this one. By the way, it is absolutely huge inside. It appears to extend back behind Pickwick & Frolic.

It was supposed to have an East 4th St. presence in the McCrory building, making it an L-shaped complex wrapping completely around P&F, but there was some sort of problem with that (I don't remember what, precisely) so they cut out that portion.