Well it aint Killadelphia :-P and I like the fact that in summer its open al fresco and in winter easy to walk down.  However, I wish there was a compromise that some of the venue would offer winter lighted dining as that would be a way to signal the street is still alive and offer a glimpse of what a great time folks on the inside are having to those outside, but I think my marketing ideas are crossing the line with reality.

I actually really like that it's closed off, too. It also encourages pedestrian activity, which I think it sorely needed in downtown. I wish the WHD would enact something like this, too.

Why does it have to be an entertainment district instead of a neighborhood that just has alot of entertainment. 

 

To give you something to complain about. :-D

Personally, I can't stand that the street is closed at all.  Why does it have to be an entertainment district instead of a neighborhood that just has alot of entertainment.  The E 4th area is a far cry from a neighborhood being that the main stretch isn't open to traffic.  It reminds me of a block party.  I wish it was just a nice narrow street with buidings right up to it, kind of like Philly.  

 

You raise a valid point, gotribe.  Originally, I thought E. 4th was being overdone -- sometimes, part of me still does.  E. 4th's been popular a long time as a New York- type narrow busy/junky street.  Over time, though, I've warmed to the idea of its present incarnation.  I guess maybe once ECP is finally finished I'll feel more of a loss in driving btw Prospect and Euclid, but for now I'm fine with the closure.  Bourbon Street in New Orleans closes every night to auto traffic after 8 or 9p, I believe, and the ped-only feeling is exciting.  E. 4th is starting to have that kind of feel. 

 

MRN's proving that, in the summer, E.4th doesn't need cars because the word-of-mouth excitement drawing people to the wider patios (along without the added pressure of having to dodge autos) in numbers like it never has in the past.  And the re-energizing jolt E. 4th is providing to the Gateway side of Public Sq is helping balance off that of the old-news Warehouse Dist... I'm fine with E. 4th the way it is and can't wait till it's completely filled out housing-wise and restaurant-wise.

 

*   *    *

 

As for Philly, I lived there during the 90s when there was a controversy as to whether the sidewalks on tight streets (which are the vast majority in Center City) could safely accommodate al fresco dining on the sidewalks.  City ordinance had to be changed to allow such dining on streets where sidewalks lacked the footage width(s) needed for such dining.  Like Cleveland (there are parallels btw the 2 city's inferiority-complexwise, btw) city promoters feared the by-the-book law & order folks were dumping on the city's chances to be a more tourist-desirable place like NYC up the road (or even DC, down)... But several years and many hearings later, it was changed and Center City is now booming.  However, on many E.4th Street-like Philly streets where there is al fresco dining there are problems for pedestrians to squeeze between diners and car traffic; it's a headache and, from time to time, a ped gets hit by a car.  As visually interesting as such streets are, I'd rather have E. 4th street the way it is.  If you want to see al fresco dining mixed with live car traffic -- albeit significantly 'calmed' traffic, the WHD is only a few blocks away.

 

Did I just see a pedestrian-only street?!?! Im gonna have to look at that closer.

What would be nice is more restaurants with multiple levels. Having balconies on the second floor where people can eat outside,so that it's not taking up valuable sidewalk space. Even if the sidewalk is wide. The sidewalk tables are usually small and up against the building, not taking up much space so I don't really have a problem with 'em. I'm all about eating outside. That's the reason 80 percent of the people at my old restaurant ate there. They'd get to eat with their dogs after a long walk and they'd see people they knew walking past; it forces some interaction. It's a beautiful thing.

so if i'm reading you correctly, you want a restaurant on the second floor with balconies?

 

I know that Lola will be opening an upper floor lounge in the adjacent building.

thx for the update shot mayday. i like the "spillover" of flannerys onto prospect.

 

what is going on across the street from flannery's? i mean the green corner on the ne side of e4th at prospect by the flame? i remember that was the difficult corner with all the pillars inside that i thought would be cool for an afternoon or after dinner coffee/wine/gelato bar type of joint. i see they have it all sealed up from the street now so that it looks like a bank branch space. hmm. is it leased?

Nothing has been announced for that space.

thx for the update shot mayday. i like the "spillover" of flannerys onto prospect.

 

what is going on across the street from flannery's? i mean the green corner on the ne side of e4th at prospect by the flame? i remember that was the difficult corner with all the pillars inside that i thought would be cool for an afternoon or after dinner coffee/wine/gelato bar type of joint. i see they have it all sealed up from the street now so that it looks like a bank branch space. hmm. is it leased?

 

You're talking about the ground level of the Sincere Building condos.  Yes, it appears the pillars do limit usage type, but there must be some type of usage in that space that can fly -- bank branch wouldn't be such a bad idea -- anything than its current eye-diverting state... Yes, Flannery's has been a huge success and anchors the south E. 4th entrance similar to how the Corner Alley anchors the north... It sure would be nice if that old, abandoned Goldfish Army-Navy block of buildings could be rehabbed... not the most appealing view from Flannery's while knocking down a few cold ones... I think, though, with the renaissance occurring on E. 4th, and in Gateway in general, it's only a matter of time.

" there must be some type of usage in that space that can fly -- bank branch wouldn't be such a bad idea"

 

The pillars would be a serious impediment to sight lines for security's sake.

It sure would be nice if that old, abandoned Goldfish Army-Navy block of buildings could be rehabbed... not the most appealing view from Flannery's while knocking down a few cold ones... I think, though, with the renaissance occurring on E. 4th, and in Gateway in general, it's only a matter of time.

 

i think we will see something happen with this block.  it is my understanding that the owner, who lives in shaker heights, has been negotiating the sale of these properties.  he obviously wasn't doing much, so if they can get these into the hands of some competent developers that would be great.  i had heard $1.2m being tossed around, but i don't know specific details for what buildings that would include.

 

hopefully it doesn't end up like the space across from winking lizard that stopped work in the middle of the project.  or the old ny spaghetti factory which was going open by opening day (and is still closed).  and hopefully it gets rehabbed ASAP and not as part of a larger "buy and hold" strategy.

Maybe we can start here: What used to be in this spot?

Maybe we can start here: What used to be in this spot?

 

well, here is a photo from 1980 (which shows buildings on the surface parking lots as well).  hard to tell from this angle what was there.

 

http://images.ulib.csuohio.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/herrick&CISOPTR=712&REC=8

 

if you look at the ceiling, though, you can see where the entrance used to be off of the corner of east 4th and prospect and was recessed back a few feet (similar to corner alley's entrance).  you can also see where a stairway used to cut through the 2d floor, but was filled in.    my guess is that there were small storefronts and a main entrance to the stairs for the upper levels. 

"Maybe we can start here: What used to be in this spot?"

 

When I first started working downtown (1997ish), it was vacant (along with most storefronts on East 4th). Not sure what was there prior to that.

What shocked/impressed me about E. 4th was how many people were there at 8 p.m. on a Sunday night.

(also that they were able to get all the building owners to allow them to drill holes in their building facades for the hanging lights)

 

I recently ate at both 4th Street Grille and Blues Cafe (are those the names?) and was pleased, although 4th Street has a better menu.

I bought my first pair of punk rock combat boots from that Goldfish store. They lasted me about five years of play, work, and more play.

one more, it shows a "J & G Shoes" and a "shoe repair" sign before the entrance doors for the new condos.

 

http://images.ulib.csuohio.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/herrick&CISOPTR=149&REC=18

I've been meaning to post these for a while now.  These are shots I took back on the Monday that Wonder Bar [was supposed to] open up...went over there with a friend after work hoping to check it out and found out that the grand opening had mistakenly been announced for Monday instead of Tuesday, as mentioned before. 

 

I also got some shots of the inside and outside of Zócalo.  I haven't been back on East 4th since that night (two weeks ago), but I would imagine we are getting dangerously close to being able to experience the "tequila bomb" and everything else promised at that place!  Interestingly, I was chatting with the bar maid at Flannery's about it and she did not seem to be too happy about it.  She wouldn't elaborate, but apparently it's being opened up by the same group that owns Flannery's.  If anything, I think she might have been a bit worried about losing patrons across the street, although she said she had no plans to transfer over there. 

 

Anyway, take a look at the pics.  I'd say the street was looking pretty good for a Monday evening! I'd love to see the progress its made in just the past two weeks...which is what is so great about E. 4th!

 

Outside of Wonder Bar, just before it opened up for the Friends and Family Night.  Nice looking patio...

 

...and even better full of people!

 

Someone had posted earlier asking if Lola was going to add sidewalk dining.  They have, and it's quite extensive, spanning its entire frontage:

 

Here's the rather nondescript (at least at this point) front of Zócalo:

 

..and the interior, which looks a bit more exciting.

 

Finally, East 4th in all of its (Monday) glory!

i really like the way the interior of zocalo turned out, thanks for the pic.

i really wish Wonder Bar was a bit more tacky/crazy with a green and purple interior and had a magic potion theme to it

"magic potion" you say??  Zaceman, you kill me.  LOL

Is it me or do the owners of the patios need to get a designer in and make the spaces a bit more interesting (rather than just tables and chairs).  

Is it me or do the owners of the patios need to get a designer in and make the spaces a bit more interesting (rather than just tables and chairs).  

 

i think it is just the e4 developer standard patio.  some curves and planters would be nice though.  maybe when v2 appears next summer, they will have made some modifications.

 

i also wish some of these places had bars that were inside, near the windows, with sliding glass doors that opened, but with the ability to place stools on the outside, viewing televisions or whatever on the inside.

^at least plop a planter or two on there with some leafy greens.

I'd like to see them incorporate some metal artwork into the rails.

Is it me or do the owners of the patios need to get a designer in and make the spaces a bit more interesting (rather than just tables and chairs).  

 

Hell I would do it for free!  Call MayDay's partner, he's got a green thumb!  Anyone!  Sheeesh!

And those "Road Closed" signs SUCK.  Sounds like E4th needs a quick design competition for some signage.  Between the road closed signs and those horrible lanterns at either end, there's enough 'tack' in the neighborhood as it is.

I like the lanterns!  Now the "road closed" signs could have used a lil juzzing up!

"Road Closed" sends the wrong message anyway.  Is a sign with that exact phrase a legal requirement for closing the street to traffic?

"Road Closed" sends the wrong message anyway.  Is a sign with that exact phrase a legal requirement for closing the street to traffic?

 

How so?  It's not the same as when Shaker built barricades on the city line of the streets it shared with Cleveland. 

 

Central and Prospect parks close their roads to vehicular traffic from (I believe) the start to the end of Daylight Savings. It encourages walkers, bikers, joggers and general pedestrians and makes them feel safer when walking the streets of the park.  I think this is what East 4 is trying to emulate.

 

Instead of "road closed" what would you prefer.  My comment is to add, why its closed and be the duration of the closure.

"Instead of "road closed" what would you prefer"

 

Pedestrians Only :-)

"Instead of "road closed" what would you prefer"

 

Pedestrians Only :-)

 

Issue solved!  Next!

And I want to see the human figures on the pedestrian signs doing glamour poses! World-class signage, please!!

Alright, first the fussing about what to wear Thursday night at Great Lakes, and now you're saying things like "glamour poses"? That's MY territory, so step off!!!

 

FLEE!

hah!

"Instead of "road closed" what would you prefer"

 

Pedestrians Only :-)

 

Actually, that's a good phrase.  East 4th St. isn't "closed".  Far from it.  It is an auto-free zone.

seriously, the nerve of those cars to think they are entitled to roads.

It is an auto-free zone.

 

Thats a great way to put it X!

Streets were for pedestrians, fewer horses and and even fewer wagons for several thousand years before there cars. Even in a new city like Cleveland, streets were for those things for half of the city's 211-year life.

one more, it shows a "J & G Shoes" and a "shoe repair" sign before the entrance doors for the new condos.

 

http://images.ulib.csuohio.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/herrick&CISOPTR=149&REC=18

 

Hard to get more "New York" than that, eh?

^fast forward to Aug 2007.  Scrubbed up a lot, but some grit is still there!

 

Love those fire escapes on Wonder Bar's building... they're a keeper!... TGIM, thank goodness it's Monday.  Who needs New York anyway?

^ well....for one thing that fire escape you like had to be developed somewhere!  :wink:

 

this block is looking real real good. its a fun mix. i like how it encourages the afterwork crowd to hang around.  :clap:

 

i would agree with what someone else said above -- the only improvements i can imagine would be for new places to open up their joints to their outdoor patios even more so the flow is improved and its even more inviting. in destination zones like this with a lot of competition i tend to be instantly drawn to places that are thee most wide open to the street.

 

toward the south end it would be nice to add an open eurostyle coffee/wine bar too as a variation to the beer/drinks crowd. maybe serve some real italian pannini's and stuff  -- they could prob get a regular lunch crowd with that. eh, just a whim -- i've been out to a few wine bars lately.

 

 

 

 

I have no pictures, but they are placing the signage for Zocalo this afternoon, and I must say, it is tragically crappy looking.  Hopefully they get some neon out there to make it a little more interesting.

Tragically crappy, eh?  I guess we'll have to wait and see!

 

I have to admit that I'm a little turned off by the massive outdoor seating "pens."  I think they detract from the classic character of the street.

I believe the design is pen-like to conform to state liquor laws. Not that it's a good excuse, but I imagine if they could do something different, they would.

like Pope said, planters would do wonders

liquor license reqs. or otherwise, I'm not digging the fact that 2/3 of the public realm is now turned over to paying customers only.  maybe I'll be happier down on the street, but something about the look of things just turns me off.