17 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I have always felt that one of the biggest impediments/challenges with rail between the three Cs is that none of them have sufficiently developed public transportation systems (especially rail which out of towners tend to feel more comfortable using than buses because they definitely know where it is going) compared to other "rail cities".  Once you are in town you want to be able to get around quickly and easily.  It sort of defeats the purpose of the rail trip if once in Columbus I have to rent a car to get around (why not just drive in the first place) or spend a fortune on Ubers and/or taxis.  When I am in Chicago or NYC I use public transportation 90% of the time so I would have no trouble taking a rail trip to either city (except for the fact that it leaves Cleveland in the middle of the night).  I don't know if I could say that about Cincy or Columbus,

 

 

cota is love.

 

cota is life.

 

👍

38 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

The biggest challenge would be getting the state to fund a line that serves only those three cities.

There's plenty of powerful state legislators who would insist on more stops.  Which would slow the whole thing down quite a bit.

With enough daily frequencies, you can schedule a few trains trains to stop in some of the smaller communities.  

2 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

The biggest challenge would be getting the state to fund a line that serves only those three cities.

There's plenty of powerful state legislators who would insist on more stops.  Which would slow the whole thing down quite a bit.

 

Small town stops take very little time.  I would guess between slowing down, stopping for a minute or two, and starting up again, each stop costs the train maybe 3 or 4 minutes.  Put 2 or 3 in between Cleveland and Columbus and 2 or 3 more between Cincinnati and Columbus and you've only added 15-20 minutes to the entire trip (and half that if you're not going all the way to Cincinnati).

Edited November 9, 20213 yr by jam40jeff

About 5 minutes for a big, diesel-powered train like the Lake Shore Limited or any other long-distance train. Station stops for shorter, diesel-hauled trains like what 3C would be, add about 4 minutes per stop. Electrically powered trains like the Acela lose an average of 3 minutes for each smaller stop like New London or Stamford. But the bigger stations have enough on/off passengers that it adds more time.

Jim Mathews with the Rail Passengers Association hit back at a jackass reporter on News Nation Now (link below image):

 

 

https://twitter.com/RailPassengers/status/1458154928128634884

 

Looks like Amtrak Cascades is FINALLY returning to the intended design. Lost 4 years here because of a tragedy caused by incompetence. 

 

 

On 11/9/2021 at 6:54 AM, KJP said:

 

Cities have generally supported our efforts however businesses have not. When we approached chambers of commerce they responded that they're not hearing from their members a desire for passenger rail service. Of course not...why would anyone demand rail service when it is so far out of the public's awareness here in Ohio? It's an abstract concept to an Ohioan. Most Ohio cities have been without trains for 40-50 years and those that do have them don't know they exist because they "serve" cities only in the middle of the night so they may as well not exist. It takes having some usable trains to get even better trains. So we've tried to get some businesses to put pressure on their chambers but with scattered success, which is to say the end results were insufficient.

 

Building coalitions and all that goes with that is good, but unless the target of that effort is at least willing to listen, it's a waste of time. KJP, Gildone, myself and others worked on Ohio for years and nearly got to the mountaintop a number of times, only to have the state turn its back on us. The last time it was Kasich, but we had reverses several times before that. When it comes to Ohio we just have to face the fact that it's a state filled with doubters and that it has a fusty conservative streak to boot, which inhibits progress.

 

Better to put what energy we have left (I've been at this since 1974) into finding ways to BYPASS Ohio. Yes, let Ohio sit while we work on other solutions. If they want to participate later, fine, but don't wait for them to lead. One way to work around Ohio is the formation of the Lakeshore Rail Alliance, an umbrella organization representing eight rail advocacy organizations along the route of the Lake Shore Limited between New York and Chicago. This is important because for the first time, these organizations are speaking with one voice. It's already having an impact . We are finding that leaders outside of Ohio are sharing our vision and are taking real steps to create rail passenger service. They intuitively know things can and should be better.

 

One of these is in Erie County PA, which has created its first-ever rail commission and funded it with $1 million in casino tax revenue. All because we talked and they listened. Lately, US Rep. Marcy Kaptur and NOACA have been talking about doing things with passenger rail too. One thing LRA is promoting is the formation of a multi-state authority to bypass do-nothing Ohio. Such an entity could partner with developers to create development near train stations and use tax revenue to finance further rail improvements.  It's hard to say whether we will succeed, but the point is: When you encounter an obstacle, you go around it.

ugh.

 

 

November 16, 2021

 

Commuter/Regional, High Performance, Intercity, News, Passenger

A Hard Sell and a Long Shot

 

Written by David Peter Alan, Contributing Editor

 

 

In October, I reported on three events that took place within three days, all of which concerned the possibility of more Amtrak-operated state-supported trains in the Midwest. The events are now over, including the Oct. 15 online conference sponsored by the Rail Users’ Network (RUN). In light of that conference, it appears that, despite the hopeful-sounding talk from the Federal Railroad Administration and the Midwest Interstate Passenger Rail Commission (MIRPC), getting more state-supported trains and corridors in the region will be a hard sell and a long shot.

 

more:

https://www.railwayage.com/news/a-hard-sell-and-a-long-shot/

 

 

 

Amtrak’s 15-year vision calls for “improved service in major cities currently underserved by rail like Houston, Atlanta and Cincinnati, and new intercity passenger rail service to cities such as Las Vegas, Nashville, Columbus, Phoenix, and Wichita, with increased access for many towns and cities in between.”

David Peter Alan is a grouch. He's always been able to find the cloud to every silver lining.

the dire need for gateway

 

 

 

Unbelievable.   In any other first world country this would have been done years ago.   

Amtrak has yet another new CEO - Stephen Gardner (who is currently Amtrak president). This guy is only 45, so maybe he sticks around a bit longer. Very curious in the reaction of the more informed train people here. 
 

I would have loved for them to go outside and hire a person from a country that actually knows how to run passenger rail, but I suppose that’s wishful thinking. 
 

https://media.amtrak.com/2021/12/amtrak-announces-bill-flynn-to-retire-and-names-stephen-gardner-as-new-president-and-ceo/?fbclid=IwAR0FRuTU5Un7Bf9_VXcpgJjSH8tMPn9oOkRLXgsvusz1ZYWprsbmzTaaO6E
 

AMTRAK ANNOUNCES BILL FLYNN TO RETIRE AND NAMES STEPHEN GARDNER AS NEW PRESIDENT AND CEO 

 

WASHINGTON – Amtrak Board Chair Tony Coscia today announced that Bill Flynn will be retiring after leading Amtrak since April 2020 and that Stephen J. Gardner will be appointed as the company’s new President and Chief Executive Officer, effective January 17, 2022.

Gardner currently serves as Amtrak’s President, leading the railroad’s day-to-day operations, customer growth initiatives and strategies to modernize Amtrak’s products, services, infrastructure and fleet.

Flynn, who led Amtrak through COVID-19 recovery efforts, prioritized safety and customer experience initiatives, advanced major infrastructure projects, expanded the company’s diversity and inclusion and executed major equipment procurements, all to position the company for the future. Flynn will continue as a senior advisor to Gardner and the company for the remainder of the fiscal year following his retirement to support the transition.

2 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

I would have loved for them to go outside and hire a person from a country that actually knows how to run passenger rail, but I suppose that’s wishful thinking.

 

Not a very deep pool of experience in the U.S., unfortunately.

Not a fan of Stephen Gardner. Very Northeast Corridor-focused and, to a lesser degree, state-supported corridors elsewhere. He may run long-distance trains only because Congress wants him to, but I don't trust he run them well.

https://www.businessreport.com/business/amtrak-backs-rail-merger-that-could-bring-baton-rouge-to-nola-passenger-service

 

"Amtrak and Canadian Pacific Railway Limited today announced an agreement, with Amtrak supporting the proposed combination of CP and Kansas City Southern railways. 

 

The combination, which still needs final regulatory approval, is a pivotal step toward launching passenger rail service between Baton Rouge and New Orleans

 

Amtrak and CP have already committed to operating the rail service. However, today’s support agreement, which highlights CP’s positive track record in dealing with Amtrak will be filed as part of the docket in the CP-KCS proceeding at the Surface Transportation Board, adding evidence to support the merger."

Edited January 7, 20223 yr by Luke_S

Ughhh. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Railroad

“The WDWRR [Walt Disney World Railroad] would eventually become one of the most popular steam-powered railroads in the world with about 3.7 million passengers each year.[19]”

 

 

Are Amtrak charters even possible for off-route trips?  This is actually not a bad idea.  I remember as a kid going to a Pittsburgh hockey game on a Cleveland Barons special train.  It was lots of fun.

6 minutes ago, Dougal said:

 

Are Amtrak charters even possible for off-route trips?  This is actually not a bad idea.  I remember as a kid going to a Pittsburgh hockey game on a Cleveland Barons special train.  It was lots of fun.

I agree---this is a great idea.  It's close enough that the trip wouldn't be too long and people could sober up on the way home.

 

I think they are scheduled trains, but I know in NC they actively promote to Panthers fans in Raleigh.  I have a buddy there who has season tickets and takes the train to and from Charlotte on game day.  

https://www.ncdot.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/2021/2021-08-24-train-panthers.aspx

8 hours ago, Dougal said:

 

Are Amtrak charters even possible for off-route trips?  This is actually not a bad idea.  I remember as a kid going to a Pittsburgh hockey game on a Cleveland Barons special train.  It was lots of fun.

 

Yes they do. But Cleveland-Pittsburgh isn't an off-route trip. It's the route of the daily (er, nightly) east-west Capitol Limited between Chicago and Washington DC. It stops in Cleveland, Alliance and Pittsburgh.

Didn't Amtrak run a special train for the KY Derby?

49 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

Didn't Amtrak run a special train for the KY Derby?

 

looks like yes amtrak did -- also private trains from cinci:

 

https://www.cincinnatirailway.com/event/place-new-trip-here/

 

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,4547532

 

^ fyi -- the latter link from 2018 mentions amtrak no longer does specials --

12 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Yes they do. But Cleveland-Pittsburgh isn't an off-route trip. It's the route of the daily (er, nightly) east-west Capitol Limited between Chicago and Washington DC. It stops in Cleveland, Alliance and Pittsburgh.

Eliptical thinking/posting.   I actually had Cleveland-Cincinnati, another good possibility for football charters, in mind as the off-route charter.   I guess the problem for Amtrak might be lack of equipment in cities that are not route terminuses.

9 hours ago, Dougal said:

Eliptical thinking/posting.   I actually had Cleveland-Cincinnati, another good possibility for football charters, in mind as the off-route charter.   I guess the problem for Amtrak might be lack of equipment in cities that are not route terminuses.

 

What does eliptical mean? Amtrak is willing to run specials/charters on routes where they would like to expand/add new services to generate public interest that achieves a political goal.

Elliptical - writing characterized by extreme brevity, in this case so extreme as to cause misunderstanding.

 

So maybe Cleveland <-> Cincinnati football charter trains would be a VERY good idea to promote the 3C+D service.

Edited January 12, 20223 yr by Dougal

12 hours ago, Dougal said:

Elliptical - writing characterized by extreme brevity, in this case so extreme as to cause misunderstanding.

 

So maybe Cleveland <-> Cincinnati football charter trains would be a VERY good idea to promote the 3C+D service.

 

Yes it would, as would Cleveland-Cincinnati baseball trains during inter-league play.

 

So a longer answer is that, yes, Amtrak charters are still possible for off-route trips -- if it achieves a political goal for Amtrak. If Amtrak wants to run permanent service on that route and the proposed service could produce a stronger constituency for it. But if the service is going to be counter-productive (ie: running a train before infrastructure improvements necessary for permanent service can produce faster, more reliable service), then I doubt Amtrak would run it. That could be the case with 3C service, since the trains would likely need 6+ hours to make the CIN-CLE (or vice versa) trip and reinforce a negative inaccuracy that this would be the permanent schedule. It might be worthwhile to run a train from Sharonville (Cincy suburb near I-275) to Cleveland for a Bengals-Browns game because it would avoid the slowest portion of the trip. Or perhaps a Cleveland-Columbus train for an OSU game or two. The northern half of the 3C route is pretty fast but I would still want to build some padding in the schedule just in case CSX screws it up or the hand-off from CSX to NS at Berea for the remaining 12 miles on NS into downtown Cleveland goes badly. That hand-off will require boarding a "pilot" from the host (track-owning freight railroad) to ride along for the segment of the railroad on which they work. So an NS pilot would ride with the Amtrak engineer in the cab from Sharonville to Columbus, a CSX pilot would ride from Columbus to Berea, and an NS pilot from Berea to Cleveland. It could be the same NS pilot, but he/she would have to be qualified to operate over both segments. A 3C charter train would likely operate at the highest speed allowed for freight trains on that route -- I think intermodal trains are allowed to travel at 50-60 mph on CSX and NS south of Berea. But north of Berea, which is an Amtrak route and maintained to passenger train standards, Amtrak trains are allowed 79 mph here.

 

It's often said that the first day of a new road will be its best because the road is in great shape and there's no traffic. But the first day of a new train service is it's worst because no one knows what they're doing and achieving reliable train service is usually about creating routines and predictable patterns over a period of time. Things will get screwed up during a charter train trip.

 

So you asked if such charter trains are possible for off-route trips. And my reply was that Cleveland-Pittsburgh is not an off-route trip. That route is served by Amtrak trains every day.

 

Thus, a slightly better idea is Cleveland-Pittsburgh or Toledo-Cleveland which already have regular Amtrak services operating over both segments. There are qualified Amtrak crews, familiar fuel/water suppliers and Amtrak stations at both ends where the charter Amtrak train can ride piggyback on an existing Amtrak train and be dropped off at Cleveland or Pittsburgh. That will save Amtrak a lot of money on delivery charges from NS to get the train to the desired starting point and retrieve it after the trip. At Cleveland or Pittsburgh stations, the charter train can be set out on a side track, be serviced, stocked and readied for the trip with boarding-deboarding taking as long as necessary without getting in the way of freight services. And the Amtrak crews can prep for the trip by riding shotgun on the regular Amtrak train over those routes. Otherwise Amtrak would have to have an NS pilot ride in the cab with the Amtrak engineer Cleveland-Pittsburgh or Toledo-Cleveland. And because these are Amtrak routes, they are maintained by the freight railroads to passenger train standards and thus can operate at 79 mph over much of the route. This is where Amtrak would be able to put its best foot forward with a charter train.

11 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Yes it would, as would Cleveland-Cincinnati baseball trains during inter-league play.

 

So a longer answer is that, yes, Amtrak charters are still possible for off-route trips -- if it achieves a political goal for Amtrak. If Amtrak wants to run permanent service on that route and the proposed service could produce a stronger constituency for it. But if the service is going to be counter-productive (ie: running a train before infrastructure improvements necessary for permanent service can produce faster, more reliable service), then I doubt Amtrak would run it. That could be the case with 3C service, since the trains would likely need 6+ hours to make the CIN-CLE (or vice versa) trip and reinforce a negative inaccuracy that this would be the permanent schedule. It might be worthwhile to run a train from Sharonville (Cincy suburb near I-275) to Cleveland for a Bengals-Browns game because it would avoid the slowest portion of the trip. Or perhaps a Cleveland-Columbus train for an OSU game or two. The northern half of the 3C route is pretty fast but I would still want to build some padding in the schedule just in case CSX screws it up or the hand-off from CSX to NS at Berea for the remaining 12 miles on NS into downtown Cleveland goes badly. That hand-off will require boarding a "pilot" from the host (track-owning freight railroad) to ride along for the segment of the railroad on which they work. So an NS pilot would ride with the Amtrak engineer in the cab from Sharonville to Columbus, a CSX pilot would ride from Columbus to Berea, and an NS pilot from Berea to Cleveland. It could be the same NS pilot, but he/she would have to be qualified to operate over both segments. A 3C charter train would likely operate at the highest speed allowed for freight trains on that route -- I think intermodal trains are allowed to travel at 50-60 mph on CSX and NS south of Berea. But north of Berea, which is an Amtrak route and maintained to passenger train standards, Amtrak trains are allowed 79 mph here.

 

It's often said that the first day of a new road will be its best because the road is in great shape and there's no traffic. But the first day of a new train service is it's worst because no one knows what they're doing and achieving reliable train service is usually about creating routines and predictable patterns over a period of time. Things will get screwed up during a charter train trip.

 

So you asked if such charter trains are possible for off-route trips. And my reply was that Cleveland-Pittsburgh is not an off-route trip. That route is served by Amtrak trains every day.

 

Thus, a slightly better idea is Cleveland-Pittsburgh or Toledo-Cleveland which already have regular Amtrak services operating over both segments. There are qualified Amtrak crews, familiar fuel/water suppliers and Amtrak stations at both ends where the charter Amtrak train can ride piggyback on an existing Amtrak train and be dropped off at Cleveland or Pittsburgh. That will save Amtrak a lot of money on delivery charges from NS to get the train to the desired starting point and retrieve it after the trip. At Cleveland or Pittsburgh stations, the charter train can be set out on a side track, be serviced, stocked and readied for the trip with boarding-deboarding taking as long as necessary without getting in the way of freight services. And the Amtrak crews can prep for the trip by riding shotgun on the regular Amtrak train over those routes. Otherwise Amtrak would have to have an NS pilot ride in the cab with the Amtrak engineer Cleveland-Pittsburgh or Toledo-Cleveland. And because these are Amtrak routes, they are maintained by the freight railroads to passenger train standards and thus can operate at 79 mph over much of the route. This is where Amtrak would be able to put its best foot forward with a charter train.

Thanks @KJP as always!  We should all forward this to Destination Cleveland and it's Pittsburgh counterpart.   Great ideas all around!  

So ... Cleveland <-> Pittsburgh is the preferred route from an Amtrak point of view.  Pittsburgh Union Station to Heinz Field is 1.8 miles, Amtrak to the stadium in Cleveland is less than a mile. So, added bonus, the trip is pretty much walkable at both ends. For a day game, you could leave at 9AM and be back at 9PM easliy.

 

If you could get the teams interested in providing a little sponsorship publicity, it just might be doable.

Edited January 12, 20223 yr by Dougal

Passengers could get off the train at Cleveland and walk west using a temporary walkway across the Waterfront Line and use the West 3rd Street Waterfront Line station ramps/elevator for ADA access to Browns stadium at the Meijer Gate. The distance from Amtrak train to the Meijer Gate is 1,300 to 1,500 feet, depending on where they're seated on the train.

 

At Pittsburgh, passengers can walk 2,600 feet to the Steel Plaza LRT station and take the T to the Allegheny Station, which is across the street (300 feet) from the C entrance to Heinz Field. Or, a chartered LRT train could meet the Amtrak train at the Amtrak's Penn Station/PAT's Penn Plaza Station (they're under the same roof) direct to the Allegheny Station. It would require a switchback/reversing move at the Steel Plaza station, but no transfer of LRT trains.

https://www.masslive.com/news/2022/01/csx-agrees-to-work-with-amtrak-on-east-west-berkshire-passenger-rail-as-pan-am-railway-purchase-hearings-begin.html

 

"CSX also agreed to cooperate with plans to restore passenger rail to the northern east-west route from Boston through Greenfield to North Adams, tracks it hopes to buy from Pan Am.

 

And, in a deal worked out with state Sen. Adam G. Hinds, D-Pittsfield, CSX agreed to the operation of the Berkshire Flyer from Albany to Pittsfield from Memorial Day to Columbus Day 2022.

 

All parties will evaluate the service, and the number of passengers it draws, with the consideration of making the train permanent."

It would operate only between Albany and Pittsfield? That doesn't make any sense. Why not operate from Albany to Boston, or at least Pittsfield to Boston (the state capital)? 

12 minutes ago, KJP said:

It would operate only between Albany and Pittsfield? That doesn't make any sense. Why not operate from Albany to Boston, or at least Pittsfield to Boston (the state capital)? 

I think it does, the excerpt I pull just didn't have full/good detail I guess?

 

Here's another source you should be able to read, does this make more sense? 

 

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/csx-and-amtrak-reach-deal-on-new-england-passenger-service/

No, it doesn't make sense. The freight should be shifting to the Hoosick Tunnel route via North Adams, leaving the old Boston & Albany line open to passenger expansion. That includes upgrading the Springfield-Worcester portion with double track and 110 mph for Amtrak from Springfield to Boston. This would open up the more populous and less climate-affected Inland Route for Boston-New York service.

 

And I don't understand the point of the Berkshire Flyer service. Who is going to ride these trains? If they're supposed to test a market and entice future expansion from Albany to Boston, I think their failure to attract ridership would have the opposite effect.

 

Today's WSJ included a tiny mention tht the Gateway tunnel project between New Jersey and New York has been approved and budgeted at $10 billion.  And that's all she wrote; no details. In fact I can't even find the mention on the WSJ's site.  Does this $10 billion number include the proposed incorporation of a Long Island yard and new mainline route to New England? Or is it just the Hudson River tunnel, that used to be budgeted at around $3 billion?

That’s crazy. Is there anyway to bring down the cost of building new infrastructure in this country?

Just now, JB said:

That’s crazy. Is there anyway to bring down the cost of building new infrastructure in this country?

Hire the Amish?

17 minutes ago, JB said:

That’s crazy. Is there anyway to bring down the cost of building new infrastructure in this country?

If the $10 billion is just the Hudson tunnel, it's a horrible example of cost escalation.  If it includes the Long Island - Connecticut  component, it may not be a bad deal at all.

Edited January 21, 20223 yr by Dougal

The Italians build almost continuous high speed rail tunnels from Florence to Bologna, a distance of 50 miles, for $14 billion.

one week of amtrak

 

 

 

Not that it will happen in this congress but I wonder if congress can somehow empower Amtrak to take over rail lines that aren't being used by freight railroads for intercity travel? The old NS peavine in Ohio comes to mind as Amtrak could buy it, renovate it and use it as a corridor for the Cardinal. Cincinnati East Terminal railway uses the line but rather infrequently.

 

58 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

Not that it will happen in this congress but I wonder if congress can somehow empower Amtrak to take over rail lines that aren't being used by freight railroads for intercity travel? The old NS peavine in Ohio comes to mind as Amtrak could buy it, renovate it and use it as a corridor for the Cardinal. Cincinnati East Terminal railway uses the line but rather infrequently.

 

 

Amtrak has eminent domain power. All railroads have it -- one of the private sector industries that do. And they can use it on other railroads. They've done it only once but it was for tracks they already use...

 

https://www.joc.com/rail-intermodal/amtrak-seeks-icc-nod-condemn-trackage_19880405.html

 

DOT to STB: ‘Set a Precedent’ in Amtrak Gulf Coast Case. DOT also explained in the Dec. 14 filing that “it is important to set a precedent in this case that vindicates the governing statute and the purposes underlying it. Rail carriers have obligations in hosting Amtrak service, and these obligations were part and parcel of Congress’s decision five decades ago to create Amtrak and to relieve rail carriers of their obligations to carry passengers. The Board should not countenance an interpretation of the statute that makes passenger rail service illusory.  [Note – a short excerpt doesn’t do this story justice.  Those interested in this development should read the entire article.] 

https://www.railwayage.com/regulatory/dot-to-stb-set-a-precedent-in-amtrak-gulf-coast-case/

 

report says gateway needs better management from amtrak:

 

https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/for-gateway-success-amtrak-needs-better-program-management/

very niiiice looking!

 

 

February 8, 2022

Amtrak Debuts New National Network Locomotives

 

Cleaner, faster, more efficient engines now in service; More to be ordered

 

CHICAGO –  New Amtrak locomotives – made in the U.S. and cleaner, faster, and more fuel efficient than predecessors – began service today pulling the famous Amtrak Empire Builder train westbound from Chicago to Seattle. Locomotives 301 and 302 are among the first of 75 locomotives being delivered through 2024.

 

These ALC-42 locomotives are an important part of Amtrak’s sustainability initiative and are considerably more environmentally-friendly than their 1990’s predecessors. They reduce emissions of nitrogen oxide by more than 89 percent and particulate matter by 95 percent, while consuming less fuel than the locomotives being retired and reaching a greater top speed, 125 mph.

 

 

more:

https://media.amtrak.com/2022/02/amtrak-debuts-new-national-network-locomotives/?fbclid=IwAR0YLtVmi_2vcc-nMBwmmy3XCuliCaIaPT95itSQBPzSv84fX3mCSgfbzLA

 

Amtrak going on the offensive 

 

While I agree that CSX and NS are going overboard, I bet if the Gulf Coast states decided to emulate the Virginia Model and offer to buy excess ROW width from the railroads for separate passenger tracks, this probably wouldn't be happening.   As for Amtrak's eminent domain authority, I don't understand why they don't have the fortitude to actually use it.  Perhaps Amtrak's CEO and upper managers should be replaced by people who have actual railroad backgrounds.  Stephen Gardner's pre-Amtrak background is a Capitol Hill staffer. 

Edited February 17, 20223 yr by gildone

3 hours ago, gildone said:

While I agree that CSX and NS are going overboard, I bet if the Gulf Coast states decided to emulate the Virginia Model and offer to buy excess ROW width from the railroads for separate passenger tracks, this probably wouldn't be happening.  

I agree -- I'd like to see a lot more separate passenger rail trackage in the US.  But the lack of ANY passenger rail exposure in so much of the country probably contributes to failures to appreciate its potential.

 

Frankly, I'd also like to see better national freight and passenger rail planning, but with the railroads owning the rails I don't see it happening.

 

3 hours ago, gildone said:

As for Amtrak's eminent domain authority, I don't understand why they don't have the fortitude to actually use it.  Perhaps Amtrak's CEO and upper managers should be replaced by people who have actual railroad backgrounds.  Stephen Gardner's pre-Amtrak background is a Capitol Hill staffer. 

 

Agree that railroad background should be a requirement for more of the upper management, but I don't know how deep the bench is -- other management experience in other transportation industries might be helpful as long as there is a sufficient rail experience among the upper management.  I have no idea what the split is now.  Certainly Amtrak's CEO needs to be someone who wants Amtrak to succeed, which does not always seem to be the case.

 

As for eminent domain, the issue may be lack of funding rather than a lack of fortitude.  Eminent domain is neither fast nor cheap.

3 hours ago, gildone said:

While I agree that CSX and NS are going overboard, I bet if the Gulf Coast states decided to emulate the Virginia Model and offer to buy excess ROW width from the railroads for separate passenger tracks, this probably wouldn't be happening.   As for Amtrak's eminent domain authority, I don't understand why they don't have the fortitude to actually use it.  Perhaps Amtrak's CEO and upper managers should be replaced by people who have actual railroad backgrounds.  Stephen Gardner's pre-Amtrak background is a Capitol Hill staffer. 

It's only 2 trains a day. It makes sense to me that buying the RoW for separate route would not only be prohibitively expensive, but also unnecessary.

2 hours ago, Dev said:

It's only 2 trains a day. It makes sense to me that buying the RoW for separate route would not only be prohibitively expensive, but also unnecessary.

Good point. I would add that two trains per day isn't exactly visionary on the part of Amtrak.  That's far from adequate service to get a lot of people interested in actually using the train.  Successful passenger rail corridors offer enough trains to give travelers the flexibility they need to get out of their cars.  This corridor should be starting with 3 daily round trips with plans to expand the frequencies further.   I realize that it was probably difficult enough to get the states to agree on just one round trip per day, but a modern passenger rail system needs to do a lot better than that.