May 18, 20232 yr 7 hours ago, KJP said: There are no plans for such a service. It's just a wish by a congressman. Lots of elected officials over the decades propose things like this and they never go anywhere. Even if this one did, the new Acela trains will likely be retired before a project development process advances far enough to where the the types of trains can be considered. I was actually more interested in his proposed passenger rail caucus in Congress.
May 18, 20232 yr 5 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: If we lived in an actual first world country, an HSR tunnel under the Alleghenies between Pitt and Harrisburg would be our number 2 top priority infrastructure project (after upgrading the Northeast corridor to true HSR). I don't think a 200mph~ true HSR line is practical. The line would cross the state's many parallel ridges at a diagonal, which would increase the length and expense of earthworks, bridges, and tunnels. The route of the Pennsylvania Turnpike follows a never-built railroad ROW that deflects many miles to cross the ridges at shallow passes and shorten the length of special construction. An electrified Class 6 125mph operation between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg would no doubt be much, much cheaper than Class 9.
May 19, 20232 yr Author Only a portion of the PA Turnpike follows the old Portage Railroad. And the turnpike has since been rerouted from the former RR ROW. I think a 200 mph HSR line is doable, especially considering the number of cities that could be connected -- from Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and Pittsburgh in the west to Washington DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia and New York in the east. Imagine eliminating nearly all of the flights between those cities for cheaper, all-weather, environmentally benign high-speed rail. You could travel NYC-Chicago in five hours, downtown to downtown (with slightly slower overnight trains offering on-board hotel service that saves you time, stress and money, arriving in Chicago or New York hourly at 6, 7, 8 and 9 am). You could travel from Cleveland to NYC in three hours, or to Chicago in two, or Washington DC in two and a half hours. Or how about Detroit in one hour, or Pittsburgh in 40 minutes? This is how fast the trains are in Europe, the Pacific Rim and increasingly in other places like Morocco, Vietnam, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, etc. In Italy, I rode a high-speed train across the mountains between Florence and Bologna. Some 95 percent of that 60-mile segment was in tunnels. In China, the Lanzhou to Chongqing high-speed line is 500 miles long and travels through some of the most rugged country in China including the Qinling Mountains. Engineering-wise, it can be done. Politically? That's a whole 'nother matter. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 19, 20232 yr ^The main technical problem is that aerodynamics prevent conventional high speed rail from traveling at anything close to its maximum speed in long tunnels. In California, the trains will slow from 220mph to 125-150mph. In Europe, high speed trains only travel at 125mph in the new base tunnels under the Alps. By contrast, the new maglev between Tokyo and Osaka will be almost entirely underground (yes, hundreds of miles of tunneling) and will travel near or above 300mph in the tunnel. I'm not sure how/why this is possible from an aerodynamic perspective. In Pennsylvania, it's plain to see that there is no way that even half of the route between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg can be traversed at 200mph+. It looks like there is a nice flat stretch west of Harrisburg where trains could travel at maximum speed for about 30 miles, but otherwise, trains would only be able to operate at maximum speeds for very brief distances.
May 19, 20232 yr Author The problem is tunnel boom -- where the air displaced by the train as it enters the tunnel cannot be displaced because there's nowhere for the air to go. So not only does the tunnel portal and tube have to be designed differently, so does the train. Check out the Tohoku Shinkansen and the Zao Tunnel near Fukushima where the speed limit in the tunnel is 320kph, exactly the same as the top speed of the rest of the Tohoku Shinkansen. Note the design of the Tohoku Shinkansen at left. The Zao Tunnel diameter is also larger. But the tunnels under the Allegheny Mountains don't need to be continuous. They only need to be under each ridge. Once on a snowy weekend, I mapped out a level route once and I recall that in the most rugged section -- the 60 miles between Mercersburg and Berlin near Somerset -- it needed a half-dozen tunnels. Several more tunnels, albeit shorter, were needed between Somerset and Pittsburgh, a distance of another 60 miles or so. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 20, 20232 yr 5 hours ago, KJP said: So not only does the tunnel portal and tube have to be designed differently, so does the train. Check out the Tohoku Shinkansen and the Zao Tunnel near Fukushima where the speed limit in the tunnel is 320kph, exactly the same as the top speed of the rest of the Tohoku Shinkansen. Apparently the strange shape of the newer Japanese trains was necessary to achieve higher speeds in the 1960s-era tunnels, which are narrower than modern tunnels. Speaking of which, full speed in tunnels is possible, but only by digging very large bores, which greatly increases the expense. They are absolutely not planning to dig super-large bores in California, where the shorter of the two major tunnels will be about 13 miles long and the longer of the two will be roughly 30 miles long. With a bit of sleuthing I was able to find stats on what is necessary to achieve max speeds in tunnels: 8.8m tunnels = 29 feet. California HSR is planning 28-foot diameter tunnels. The one-foot difference is significant, but the bigger issue is that England's HS2 trains are being built to their existing loading gauges, which are much smaller than what exists in the United States - roughly 2 feet. So California will have 11-foot wide trains running through 28-foot diameter bores whereas England will have 9-foot wide trains traveling at a much higher speed through 29-foot bores. More:
May 20, 20232 yr Author Cool. Let's do it. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 2, 20232 yr Author This is west of Schenectady, NY and it's Amtrak's Cleveland- and Chicago-bound Lake Shore Limited at 100 mph that almost obliterated that idiot. Instead, only the gate got obliterated (twice). "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 5, 20232 yr ya don't say?!! -- in what might be the first ever show of nyc metro unity the mta, njtransit, amtrak and nyc all agreed msg needs to go -- and our homeboy dolan clan immediately went ballistic lol -- get out the popcorn! 😳 Bombshell Report: After More than 50 Years, Railroads Now Say MSG is “Not Compatible” Atop Penn Station A just released “Compatibility Report on MSG” by the big three railroad titans says that while loading plan arrangements were fine in a bygone era in the early 60s, that is no longer the case in 21st century NYC. MTA, Amtrak and NJ Transit in a show of unity are all calling for major changes in a dramatic new statement released June 2 about the future of Penn Station. MSG Entertainment, the owner of the Garden, blasted the new report. MICHAEL ORESKES | 03 JUN 2023 For half a century Madison Square Garden, the fourth arena of that name, has sat atop Penn Station like a dental cap sealing the root of an extracted tooth. Now, after all that time, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority has joined with two other railroad behemoths, Amtrak and NJ Transit, saying the arena and the station are “not compatible.” “The Garden’s site plan and loading arrangements may have been compatible with Penn Station and the surrounding community in the early 1960’s,” The MTA, Amtrak and Jersey Transit said Friday in a report. “Today, however, MSG’s existing configuration and property boundaries impose severe constraints on the Station that impede the safe and efficient movement of passengers and restrict efforts to implement improvements, particularly at the street and platform levels.” The timing of this statement was dramatic. Coming essentially on the eve of the City Planning Commission hearing June 7th to consider whether the Gardens permit to operate a large arena on that site should be extended after it expires July 24th. more: https://www.chelseanewsny.com/news/bombshell-report-after-more-than-50-years-railroads-now-say-msg-is-not-compatible-atop-penn-station-BD2566333 The cover of the new MTA, Amtrak and NJ Transit “Compatibility Report on MSG.” In a united front, the big three railroad concerns now say that MSG is “not compatible” sitting atop Penn Station even though it was a deal with the foundering Pennsylvania Railroad that hatched the current MSG situation.
June 6, 20232 yr Author If approved, this would be the first time Cincinnati has had daily passenger rail service since 1981. But this is not a complete list of components in the application.... https://media.amtrak.com/2023/06/amtrak-applies-for-federal-grants-to-improve-long-distance-network/ June 5, 2023 Amtrak Applies for Federal Grants to Improve Long Distance Network Proposals would upgrade existing routes and add new service WASHINGTON – Amtrak has submitted applications for approximately $716 million in Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) funding for 16 proposed projects around the country that would improve Long Distance reliability, reduce travel times and expand service. “Amtrak’s Long Distance routes are vital mobility and economic links for communities around the country and we’re continually working to enhance them,” said Amtrak Board Chair Tony Coscia. “These grant applications reiterate our commitment to improving service for all Amtrak customers, from small, rural towns to major metropolitan areas.” The applications were submitted through two FRA programs funded by the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA), including the Federal-State Partnership for Intercity Passenger Rail Program funding opportunity for projects outside the Northeast Corridor and the Corridor Identification and Development Program (Corridor ID Program). Example Long Distance projects include: o Multiple Cardinal and Sunset Limited service improvements + Increase service to operate daily – up from 3x/week currently (Corridor ID Program) + Increase Cardinal train speeds and reduce travel times between Indianapolis and Dyer, Ind. + Sunset Limited return to Phoenix o Southwest Chief signal modernization between Colorado and New Mexico o Empire Builder rail enhancements in Montana o I-20 Crescent service extension from Mississippi through Louisiana to Texas o Construction of new Crystal City station that would add service to Arlington, Va. In addition to these Long Distance grant applications submitted in conjunction with various partners, Amtrak also applied for several grants to improve Northeast Corridor and State Supported routes and provided letters of support for 83 projects outside the Northeast Corridor submitted by others. ### "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 6, 20232 yr ^ Hmm ... The existing Alexandria, VA, station is about two miles away from the Crystal City proposal. I wonder if they'll stop service to Alexandria, which is also served by VRE. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
June 6, 20232 yr 10 hours ago, KJP said: If approved, this would be the first time Cincinnati has had daily passenger rail service since 1981. But this is not a complete list of components in the application.... https://media.amtrak.com/2023/06/amtrak-applies-for-federal-grants-to-improve-long-distance-network/ June 5, 2023 Amtrak Applies for Federal Grants to Improve Long Distance Network Proposals would upgrade existing routes and add new service WASHINGTON – Amtrak has submitted applications for approximately $716 million in Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) funding for 16 proposed projects around the country that would improve Long Distance reliability, reduce travel times and expand service. “Amtrak’s Long Distance routes are vital mobility and economic links for communities around the country and we’re continually working to enhance them,” said Amtrak Board Chair Tony Coscia. “These grant applications reiterate our commitment to improving service for all Amtrak customers, from small, rural towns to major metropolitan areas.” The applications were submitted through two FRA programs funded by the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA), including the Federal-State Partnership for Intercity Passenger Rail Program funding opportunity for projects outside the Northeast Corridor and the Corridor Identification and Development Program (Corridor ID Program). Example Long Distance projects include: o Multiple Cardinal and Sunset Limited service improvements + Increase service to operate daily – up from 3x/week currently (Corridor ID Program) + Increase Cardinal train speeds and reduce travel times between Indianapolis and Dyer, Ind. + Sunset Limited return to Phoenix o Southwest Chief signal modernization between Colorado and New Mexico o Empire Builder rail enhancements in Montana o I-20 Crescent service extension from Mississippi through Louisiana to Texas o Construction of new Crystal City station that would add service to Arlington, Va. In addition to these Long Distance grant applications submitted in conjunction with various partners, Amtrak also applied for several grants to improve Northeast Corridor and State Supported routes and provided letters of support for 83 projects outside the Northeast Corridor submitted by others. ### Ken, have you been able to find the complete list of long distance routes they submitted? I dug around and ended up with circular links. I never did find the complete list. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
June 6, 20232 yr Author 4 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: Ken, have you been able to find the complete list of long distance routes they submitted? I dug around and ended up with circular links. I never did find the complete list. @Boomerang_Brian No I haven't. The PR mentions 16 projects. The detail only ID's five, or eight if you include the sub-bullets. And I don't know what they're counting as a project or a sub-project. How about rerouting/extending to Columbus the Maple Leaf? Or extend Empire trains 280/283 to Chicago? Or a Pennsylvanian extension to Detroit? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 12, 20232 yr Amtrak seeks daily Cincinnati-New York-Chicago service By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier Jun 12, 2023 Amtrak has asked for hundreds of millions of dollars to improve its long-distance service, including making the Cardinal route, which connects Cincinnati to Chicago and New York, a daily train. Amtrak submitted applications for $716 million in Federal Railroad Administration Funding for 16 projects around the country, including the Cardinal, with the aim of improving reliability, cutting travel times and expanding service. “Amtrak’s long distance routes are vital mobility and economic links for communities around the country, and we’re continually working to enhance them,” Tony Coscia, Amtrak's board chair, said in a news release. “These grant applications reiterate our commitment to improving service for all Amtrak customers, from small, rural towns to major metropolitan areas.” MORE
June 12, 20232 yr 5 hours ago, The_Cincinnati_Kid said: the Cardinal Will we get new trains and will the new trains have a real dining car rather than the current snack car?
June 12, 20232 yr Maybe I’m missing it here in all the stories over the last year or so, but if The Cardinal goes daily - are we talking better departure/arrival times out of and into Cincinnati, or, would we just be getting daily late night service? An improvement either way, but just hoping for some real times.
June 12, 20232 yr 14 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said: if The Cardinal goes daily They'd need two trains in each direction per day, at which point we could say The Cardinal Has Gone Plaid:
June 12, 20232 yr From Cincinnati's perspective, flipping the schedule by 12 hours for a second set of trains would mean the following: To Chicago - board 1:31pm, arrive 10:00pm To Washington - board 3:17pm, arrive 6:19am (arrive at NYC 9:58am)
June 12, 20232 yr If that was the Cardinal's schedule, I'd take so many more trips to Chicago. Driving there isn't hard but you will easily spend $150 on parking for two days in hotel
June 12, 20232 yr Yeah, leaving at 1:30 pm and arriving by 10:00 p.m. wouldn't be bad. Even better if that could speed up a bit too.
June 12, 20232 yr My favorite place to stay is two blocks from Union Station so that would be a great arrival time
June 12, 20232 yr Author 2 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said: Yeah, leaving at 1:30 pm and arriving by 10:00 p.m. wouldn't be bad. Even better if that could speed up a bit too. The plan is to speed up the route between Indianapolis and Dyer, IN, per Amtrak's latest FRA grant request. There's also a way Amtrak could cut the Cincy-Indy travel time in half, but would probably cost $500 million or more. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 14, 20232 yr On 6/12/2023 at 6:32 PM, KJP said: The plan is to speed up the route between Indianapolis and Dyer, IN, per Amtrak's latest FRA grant request. There's also a way Amtrak could cut the Cincy-Indy travel time in half, but would probably cost $500 million or more. That's great news. Is that Indianapolis - Dyer improvement part of this most recent grant application? Also, any ideas on when the decision on these grants might be made/and if the Cardinal gets said grant when daily service improvements could be implemented? Not a BizCourier subscriber and unfortunately all other online pieces don't seem to have that information.
June 14, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Gordon Bombay said: That's great news. Is that Indianapolis - Dyer improvement part of this most recent grant application? Also, any ideas on when the decision on these grants might be made/and if the Cardinal gets said grant when daily service improvements could be implemented? Not a BizCourier subscriber and unfortunately all other online pieces don't seem to have that information. According to the Business Courier article, they are asking for $5 million for the Cardinal. $4.4M to improve speeds (shorten the time by about 56 minutes) between Indianapolis and Dyer. The remaining ~$500k would be for planning to make it daily. The current trip from Cincinnati to Chicago is scheduled at 8 hours 19 minutes. With the 56 minute improvement we would see the trip take 7 hours 15 minutes. Not game changing, but certainly a needed improvement. And at such a low cost, seems like a clear winner. No timeline was given in the article for the Indy-Dyer improvements or the timeline for daily service, though. The long-term vision according to the article is 4 trains per day. I would venture to say we are many years away from that becoming reality even if all of the funding was ready today. But I don't have more info on timing. Maybe @KJP has more info on timing?
June 14, 20232 yr Author Sorry, I have no further information on timing. Under federal law, it would depend on someone other than Amtrak (like a state or an MPO) taking the lead on the filing of applications for planning and development funds. So far, no one has. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 14, 20232 yr May be a dumb question...Do the railroads lobby hard for these grants? I would imagine they would love for Amtrak to improve their tracks on the taxpayer dime?
June 14, 20232 yr Author 3 hours ago, Cleburger said: May be a dumb question...Do the railroads lobby hard for these grants? I would imagine they would love for Amtrak to improve their tracks on the taxpayer dime? Sometimes, yes. Sometimes they just say, it's okay. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 26, 20231 yr moving forward on the penn redo — while waiting on gateway and the penn south expansion. Penn Station's $7B overhaul to be paid for by federal and state subsidies, Hochul says By Stephen Nessen Published Jun 26, 2023 It’s back to the drawing board for the plan to renovate Penn Station, Gov. Kathy Hochul said Monday. After five years of relying on former Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s plan to use fees from 10 new skyscrapers to help pay for an overhaul of the train hub and its surrounding area, Hochul now says the estimated $7 billion of work will be paid for by state and federal subsidies. The announcement comes after the developer Vornado backed away from plans to build new skyscrapers near the station last year due to low demand for office space. Hochul said the MTA will run the redesign of the station, which is owned by Amtrak. Preliminary renderings of the plan released Monday are similar to previous ones released by the MTA, with a new skylight and a single concourse with high ceilings. more: https://gothamist.com/news/penn-stations-7b-overhaul-to-be-paid-for-by-federal-and-state-subsidies-hochul-says https://www.newsbreak.com/new-york-city-ny/3071524465196-nyc-s-7b-penn-station-concourse-rebuild-moves-ahead-without-controversial-towers A rendering of Italian firm ASTM’s proposal for Penn Station.
June 26, 20231 yr ^ it looks like they have new designs and renders — renders — https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2023-06/Penn_Renderings.pdf JUNE 26, 2023 Albany, NY Governor Hochul, Elected Officials and Railroad Partners Unite on Vision for Penn Station Modernization Plan more: https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-elected-officials-and-railroad-partners-unite-vision-penn-station
June 29, 20231 yr penn revamp pix -- Engineering firm ASTM unveils $6 billion plan to redesign Penn Station By Ben Brachfeld Posted on June 28, 2023 more: https://www.amny.com/transit/engineering-firm-astm-unveils-6-billion-plan-to-redesign-penn-station/ A rendering of ASTM’s proposed midblock train hall. Courtesy of ASTM, PAU, and HOK A rendering of ASTM’s proposed Eighth Avenue train hall. Courtesy of ASTM, PAU, and HOK A rendering of ASTM’s proposed Eighth Avenue grand entrance to a redesigned Penn Station. Courtesy of ASTM, PAU, and HOK
July 4, 20231 yr ^ of course penn south is not addressed in that, but in the meanwhile hudson tunnel work planning is moving along as well -- Hudson Tunnel Project gains momentum with $25M grant Matthew Fazelpoor June 28, 2023 As part of a $2.2 billion round of funding through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, a $25 million grant was awarded for the Tonnelle Avenue Bridge and Utility Relocation Project — an early, key component of the Hudson Tunnel Project and the broader Gateway Program. The grant comes via the Rebuilding American Infrastructure with Sustainability and Equity (RAISE) grant program, which is aimed at funding and completing critical freight and passenger transportation infrastructure projects. “Using the funds in President [Joe] Biden’s infrastructure law, we are helping communities in every state across the country realize their visions for new infrastructure projects,” said U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg. “This round of RAISE grants is helping a new generation of good-paying jobs in rural and urban communities alike, with projects whose benefits will include improving safety, fighting climate change, advancing equity, strengthening our supply chain, and more.” The project, which will build an overpass and move necessary utilities to carry Tonnelle Avenue in North Bergen over the alignment of the new Hudson River Tunnel, will commence this year and is expected to take roughly two years to complete. It will be the first early work in New Jersey for the new Hudson Tunnel. *** “With this $25 million grant award from U.S. DOT, the Tonnelle Avenue Gateway early work project will happen. Before this year is out, there will be shovels in the ground on this project and on the Hudson Yards Concrete Casing Section 3, so work will be underway on the Hudson Tunnel Project in both New Jersey and New York,” said Gateway Development Commission (GDC)’s Balpreet Grewal-Virk, New Jersey commissioner and co-chair; Alicia Glen, New York commissioner and co-chair; and Tony Coscia, vice-chair and Amtrak commissioner, in a joint statement. “Gateway is moving rapidly from planning to reality. The award shows confidence in GDC’s growth and capability to receive federal funding, and we are grateful to the Biden Administration, U.S. DOT, Majority Leader [Charles] Schumer (D-N.Y.), our congressional allies, and our governors for that confidence, and for putting real money behind their support.” more: https://njbiz.com/hudson-tunnel-project-gains-momentum-with-25m-grant/
July 7, 20231 yr Metra chosen as passenger rail service provider from Rockford/Belvidere to Chicago https://www.wrex.com/news/metra-to-spearhead-chicago-train-service-to-rockford-and-belvidere-by-2027/article_afe56eb2-1bac-11ee-8555-63a7e526a51b.html “This is a major step for Metra to journey outside our six-county, Chicago-area home, but it is something we are well-prepared to do,” said Metra CEO and Executive Director Jim Derwinski. “We know how to operate passenger trains – we’ve been doing it for nearly 40 years, through polar vortexes and hot streaks and pandemics and with an on-time performance rate that is the envy of our peers [emphasis added]. And we could not be more excited that we will soon be providing service to Rockford.” Make no mistake, this is a not-so-veiled shot at Amtrak. Amtrak's service meltdowns, using cold weather as an excuse, foolishly furloughing of crews (which contributed to service meltdowns) when Congress asked them not to because Covid relief money was coming (and that money did come) has resulted in deteriorated service for Amtrak's state partners, including Illinois. This route is in Amtrak's ConnectsUS plan (https://www.amtrakconnectsus.com/maps/chicago-rockford/), and Amtrak has been hoping to start this route in the 2030s. Metra will be starting this route in four years per the article. That alone doesn't make Amtrak look good. Even the Union Pacific got a veiled dig in: “Union Pacific couldn’t be prouder of the partnerships we’ve forged with Metra and the Illinois Department of Transportation to expand passenger rail service in Illinois,” said Union Pacific Chairman, President and CEO Lance Fritz. “This project underscores the opportunities that exist when the public and private sector work together.” UP is never glowing about Amtrak. It should also be noted that a couple years ago, former Illinois congressman Dan Lipinski called for Metra to take over Union station, so I think there has been dissatisfaction with Amtrak brewing there for some time (https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/transportation/ct-biz-lipinski-metra-amtrak-union-station-service-20191113-ftiy6d2sajdobgtl2tfmiefedm-story.html). Illinois may not be the only state to make this kind of move. In 2019 Stacey Mortensen, Executive Director of the San Joaquin Joint Powers Authority (SJJPA), testified before Congress in 2019 about California's strained relationship with Amtrak and said point blank that she wanted to contract out the San Joaquin Corridor to another operator. She cited a strained working relationship with Amtrak, Amtrak's opaqueness and defensiveness when she asks them to rationalize their costs. By contrast, Herzog Transit Services operates the Altamont Commuter Express trains over a portion of the same corridor as the SJCs, but Amtrak charges 3X per train mile what Herzog does when Herzog has to pay UP a market rate for track access, and Amtrak gets a statutory discount. Herzog also has a very open book (literally--accounting books) relationship with the SJJPA. Already, California is taking away all maintenance functions for their intercity trains from Amtrak. They are completing the construction of a new maintenance center for their intercity train equipment, I believe this year if it hasn't happened already. It is very possible that they will take away operations at some point. I should also add that Indiana stopped funding the Hoosier State not because the state is anti-train, but because they considered Amtrak to be a bad business partner. They got much better service out of the Iowa Pacific during the short time they operated the Hoosier State. IPs mistakes aside, it has been said by people in the know that Amtrak did everything they could to sandbag IPs operation of the train. Bottom line: This move by the state of Illinois is encouraging. I hope it leads other states to do the same thing. Amtrak needs competition. Edited July 7, 20231 yr by gildone additional info.
July 7, 20231 yr happy friday! boom goes the dynamite, show me the money, there it is: Biden admin awards nearly $7B to Gateway Tunnel project, largest federal transit grant in US history By Ben Brachfeld Posted on July 6, 2023 The Biden administration has awarded an eye-popping $6.88 billion to build new train tunnels under the Hudson River between New York and New Jersey, with plans to start constructing the new tubes next summer and finally get the ball rolling on the long-gestating Gateway project. more: https://www.amny.com/transit/gateway-tunnel-project-federal-funding/
July 7, 20231 yr ^It would be nice if the Biden administration would push for the South-of-the-Lake Bypass between Chicago and Porter, Indiana. The SOTLB is every bit as important as the Gateway Tunnels because there can be absolutely no expansion of passenger rail service from Chicago to the East without it. Michigan can't add more DET-CHI trainsa, Ohio can't do COL-LIM-FTW-CHI or CLE-CHI. Were talking a few dozen trains per day at full build-out of just these three corridors. More if we ever get to European levels of service. (to compare, Amtrak operates about 35 trains per day on the NEC, though I know the Gateway tunnels will serve many local trains from local transit agencies). Regarding my previous post on Rockford-Chicago... @KJPinforms me that Metra and possibly the Union Pacific as well have submitted RFPs to Illinois for operation of Chicago-St. Louis. Amtrak should be getting nervous. About 20 years ago, Amtrak lost all of their commuter contracts, but it appears they haven't learned anything. Edited July 7, 20231 yr by gildone additional info.
July 7, 20231 yr Author @gildone Clarification -- the Illinois DOT RFP for Chicago-St. Louis was a long time ago. I think it was in 2005 when the state funded the doubling of its sponsored passenger rail services statewide. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 7, 20231 yr 22 minutes ago, gildone said: ^It would be nice if the Biden administration would push for the South-of-the-Lake Bypass between Chicago and Porter, Indiana. The SOTLB is every bit as important as the Gateway Tunnels because there can be absolutely no expansion of passenger rail service from Chicago to the East without it. Michigan can't add more DET-CHI trainsa, Ohio can't do COL-LIM-FTW-CHI or CLE-CHI. Were talking a few dozen trains per day at full build-out of just these three corridors. More if we ever get to European levels of service. (to compare, Amtrak operates about 35 trains per day on the NEC, though I know the Gateway tunnels will serve many local trains from local transit agencies). Regarding my previous post on Rockford-Chicago... @KJPinforms me that Metra and possibly the Union Pacific as well have submitted RFPs to Illinois for operation of Chicago-St. Louis. Amtrak should be getting nervous. About 20 years ago, Amtrak lost all of their commuter contracts, but it appears they haven't learned anything. SOTLB is no where near as important as gateway is today, remember also that the current hudson tunnel is a disaster waiting to happen, but yes it certainly has the potential to be in the future. plus everything bottlenecking thru chicago and the hudson river is a pretty big problem in and of itself already. so basically we need more service everywhere. like amtrak should probably have toledo-indy-st louis, or cle-cols-indy-st louis routes around chicago. and connect nashville-carbondale-st louis for the south too while we are at it. unfortunately, the upper east coast is pretty limited by geography and urban etc. etc. until i suppose south past balto-wash.
July 7, 20231 yr Just now, gildone said: @mrnycwe can agree to disagree. ok, but i don't see how we dont agree. many people are literally going to die in an epic disaster and the economy grind to serious problems if not a halt if gateway isnt done asap. its not just an expedient expansion, its an emergency repair job. adding amtrak routes and services is not the same thing, although yes unbottlenecking chicago is also very important.
July 8, 20231 yr Author The difference is that, with the Gateway project, Amtrak and commuter services already exist and carry hundreds of thousands of people per day. It and the existing Northeast economy it supports will be damaged if the Gateway project isn't built. The South of the Lake Bypass is an opportunity that we will be better off if we build it but very little is going to be destroyed if we don't. If we start running 200-plus trains a day with 150,000 daily riders and reshape/grow our economy around this, then the SOTLB will equal the Gateway project in importance. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 8, 20231 yr https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2023/07/person-hospitalized-after-car-vs-amtrak-train-crash-cleveland-police-say.html
July 8, 20231 yr Author Train 48, the eastbound Lake Shore Ltd, left Cleveland on time at 5:50 am. Just 1 mile east of the station, a car drove into the path of the train. The lead locomotive had no noticeable damage as it went by the Northeast, PA webcam at 11:30 am -- 4 hours late. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 8, 20231 yr 56 minutes ago, KJP said: Train 48, the eastbound Lake Shore Ltd, left Cleveland on time at 5:50 am. Just 1 mile east of the station, a car drove into the path of the train. The lead locomotive had no noticeable damage as it went by the Northeast, PA webcam at 11:30 am -- 4 hours late. Looks like the person in the car is in serious condition at Metro. I believe there are crossing gates on 40th there. I wonder if they were working or if the car went around them? https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2023/07/person-hospitalized-after-car-vs-amtrak-train-crash-cleveland-police-say.html
July 8, 20231 yr Author Sometimes some motorists crash through the gates and sometimes people drive right in the side of a moving train. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 9, 20231 yr so it turns out the newer italian astm penn station renders were funded by jimmy dolan. you can tell the difference by looking at msg, the plans make it modernized and permanent. so those plans wont happen and nys is moving ahead on its original plans. you can tell the nys plans because in them msg looks the same as it does today, hideous grotty facade and all. ugh, the nonsense never ends, but at least the state is charging ahead. and with a nice workaround for now that lets light in all around and could accomodate removing msg someday.
July 10, 20231 yr Author Amtrak's Lake Shore Limited was also canceled south of Albany, disrupting service between the Ohio cities of Bryan, Toledo, Sandusky, Elyria and Cleveland to New York City. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 10, 20231 yr On 7/8/2023 at 1:57 PM, KJP said: Train 48, the eastbound Lake Shore Ltd, left Cleveland on time at 5:50 am. Just 1 mile east of the station, a car drove into the path of the train. The lead locomotive had no noticeable damage as it went by the Northeast, PA webcam at 11:30 am -- 4 hours late. Another reason US infrastructure isn't up to first world standards Was in Italy in March. Grade crossings are very rare there. They are pretty much only on regional lines in rural areas where train speeds are low. And, they make it impossible to drive around the gates. Of course, driver training requirements are much highet all over the EU.
July 12, 20231 yr re penn its a battle royale already with mta vs msg/the dolans — *** Both plans would consolidate Penn Station’s split levels into a single concourse, allowing designers and engineers to install vastly higher ceilings and wider passageways. The fight centers on the location of the new train hall. Instead of facing 8th Avenue, Lieber wants a dramatic hall between 7th and 8th Avenues with vaulted ceilings stretching roughly 100 feet into the sky, bringing sunlight into the complex for the first time since the original Penn Station was demolished in the 1960s. The MTA would find the space by ripping out the skybridge that links MSG to the neighboring office building, 2 Penn Plaza. MSG has pushed back hard, arguing that removing the skybridge would mean relocating key utilities — including its cooling systems — and could interrupt the operations of the arena. The MTA has dismissed those worries and countered that demolishing the Hulu Theater would also be complicated. *** The MTA estimates its plan would cost $7 billion. ASTM claims it could get the construction done for $1 billion less. more … or less: https://nypost.com/2023/07/11/msg-could-score-500m-if-plan-to-update-penn-station-is-approved/
July 12, 20231 yr Many of you may know that one of the biggest problems holding up passenger rail expansion from Chicago eastward is all of the freight congestion between Porter, Indiana and Chicago. The Lakeshore and Capitol Ltds have around an extra hour or so of running time in their schedules because of this. The proposed service increases from Chicago-east is The fix that is needed is called the South-of-the-Lake Bypass: constructing about 80-miles of passenger-only tracks between Porter and Chicago. This is a billion-dollar project which is going to take years to complete (although the Trump administration killed a grant application for it, which put it further behind). One interesting item to note is that, as an interim measure, Amtrak is currently in talks with the Northern Indiana Commuter Transportation District (operator of the South Shore Line) to use the South Shore Line until the Bypass can be constructed. I don't know exactly where Amtrak would switch over to the SS Line from NS. The segment in yellow below is the problem area: Edited July 12, 20231 yr by gildone
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