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5 minutes ago, neony said:

They were probably doing a crew change for the engineer if you were just short of the platform. Once on board, the engineer has to boot up the PTC signaling system and that can take as much as 15 minutes. Before 1968, the New York Central used automatic train stop which was electro-mechanical as opposed to the hi-tech gadgetry we have now. ATS would bring a train to a stop if the engineer ran a signal and he would have to get out of the cab to reset it.

Wouldn't this all be easier at the station while on the platform? 

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2 hours ago, Cleburger said:

Wouldn't this all be easier at the station while on the platform? 

One would think so, but Amtrak sometimes does some odd stuff. That was just an educated guess anyway

Finished a book called "The Northeast Corridor" by David Alff.  Lots of old RR lore and a quick read. The author is a poet, not an historian; so the prose gets too florid at times.  My only other complaint: he dismisses the Metroliner as "glitchy".  It ran for 37 years and was vastly better than what it replaced.  

Remember: It's the Year of the Snake

  • Author

But the original electrically Metroliner trainsets were glitchy. They didn't survive the 80s as trainsets but they were de-motored and converted into cab cars for use on push-pull trains with a diesel or electric locomotive at the other end.

 

In 1983 or so, Amtrak replaced the trainsets in Metroliner service with AEM7 electric locos hauling Amfleet II's with more legroom than the Amfleet I's and called them Metroliners. The late-1960s trainsets survived a few more years in Keystone Service until repurposed as unpowered cab cars.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

15 hours ago, KJP said:

But the original electrically Metroliner trainsets were glitchy. They didn't survive the 80s as trainsets but they were de-motored and converted into cab cars for use on push-pull trains with a diesel or electric locomotive at the other end.

 

In 1983 or so, Amtrak replaced the trainsets in Metroliner service with AEM7 electric locos hauling Amfleet II's with more legroom than the Amfleet I's and called them Metroliners. The late-1960s trainsets survived a few more years in Keystone Service until repurposed as unpowered cab cars.

They were also rough riders. The Silverliners used in high speed testing rode more smoothly on the trucks they had, but the Pennsylvania RR insisted on another design, which was not near as good. The original Metroliners also underwent a rebuilding program to address some other issues as well.

 

The Metroliners were the basis for the Amfleet cars which have been around for nearly 50 years now and are finally being replaced.

Edited by neony

1 hour ago, neony said:

They were also rough riders. The Silverliners used in high speed testing rode more smoothly on the trucks they had, but the Pennsylvania RR insisted on another design, which was not near as good. The original Metroliners also underwent a rebuilding program to address some other issues as well.

 

The Metroliners were the basis for the Amfleet cars which have been around for nearly 50 years now and are finally being replaced.

 

Thanks KJP and neony. My memories of Metroliners are apparently making them better than they actually were.  They were rough riders - you definitely knew when you hit 110mph.  But I was younger then and in more of a hurry ... The speedometer on the front wall of the car was also a nice touch.

Remember: It's the Year of the Snake

The only new thing here is a one seat ride to Florida (or NC). 
 

 

When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?

We have been in the dark for 30 years. I think we need to be a lot more vocal about that.

17 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

The only new thing here is a one seat ride to Florida (or NC). 
 

 

38 hours to West Palm Beach.  Ouch.

  • Author
1 hour ago, Foraker said:

38 hours to West Palm Beach.  Ouch.

 

Yup. Because it goes to Tampa first and then reverses direction. If you want to arrive West Palm by train, you could save 90 minutes if you got off at Orlando, took a taxi to the Airport and caught Brightline. Takes Brightline 2 hours to go ORL-WPB vs 4-6 hours by Amtrak. Brightline has 16 ORL-WPB round trips per day. Amtrak has two. Imagine if Brightline was the model for passenger rail nationwide and not Amtrak.

 

 

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

Amtrak's explanation of why the Capitol Limited will go to Florida: 

 

"Amtrak’s East River Tunnel Rehabilitation Project in New York will require closing one tunnel tube at a time to safely and efficiently conduct modernization work, resulting in minor capacity limits on train operations in this area. As a result, Amtrak is temporarily combining the Capitol Limited and Silver Star trains to create the Floridian, which will run between Chicago and Miami via Washington, DC—beginning November 10."

 

Maybe temporary will become permanent. 

Remember: It's the Year of the Snake

5 hours ago, Dougal said:

Amtrak's explanation of why the Capitol Limited will go to Florida: 

 

"Amtrak’s East River Tunnel Rehabilitation Project in New York will require closing one tunnel tube at a time to safely and efficiently conduct modernization work, resulting in minor capacity limits on train operations in this area. As a result, Amtrak is temporarily combining the Capitol Limited and Silver Star trains to create the Floridian, which will run between Chicago and Miami via Washington, DC—beginning November 10."

 

Maybe temporary will become permanent. 

It’s also because of Superliner shortages. The new service will use the Silver Star equipment and the Superliners currently on the Capital Limited will be redeployed to western US service. 

When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?

21 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Yup. Because it goes to Tampa first and then reverses direction. If you want to arrive West Palm by train, you could save 90 minutes if you got off at Orlando, took a taxi to the Airport and caught Brightline. Takes Brightline 2 hours to go ORL-WPB vs 4-6 hours by Amtrak. Brightline has 16 ORL-WPB round trips per day. Amtrak has two. Imagine if Brightline was the model for passenger rail nationwide and not Amtrak.

 

 

Even with your workaround, it's still more than 34 hours -- double the drive time.  Can we get it to 24-hours, please?!?  And yes, it seems we would be much better off with Brightline than Amtrak.

 

Strong federal enforcement of the requirement for passenger train right-of-way also would go a long way.  If the freight company doesn't have a siding long enough for their train to get out of the way, the fine should be steep enough that it makes financial sense for the freight companies to build longer sidings or shorten freight trains.  The current slap on the wrist isn't working.

1 hour ago, Foraker said:

Even with your workaround, it's still more than 34 hours -- double the drive time.  Can we get it to 24-hours, please?!?  And yes, it seems we would be much better off with Brightline than Amtrak.

 

Strong federal enforcement of the requirement for passenger train right-of-way also would go a long way.  If the freight company doesn't have a siding long enough for their train to get out of the way, the fine should be steep enough that it makes financial sense for the freight companies to build longer sidings or shorten freight trains.  The current slap on the wrist isn't working.

You won't be able to do a run in 24 hours without an entirely new railroad. Also, Brightline is focused on corridors under 300 miles and won't be developing long distance services such as this. For now, the Amtrak on freight tracks is all we have. It's worth noting that even the direct Floridian schedule before its discontinuance in 1979 took two nights and a day to make the Chicago-Miami run. It was the longest run east of the Mississippi. By contrast, the Florida Special, an all Pullman seasonal train back in the old days made the run from New York to Miami in 24 hours and was in the latter city by noon the day following following its endpoint departure. Topography and distance make all the difference.

 

This "new" train is not a serious attempt to penetrate the Chicago-Florda market. It's just a way for Amtrak to better utilize equipment in the face of a severe shortage of cars.

Edited by neony

Amtrak launches direct Chicago to Miami route with stop in Cleveland

 

Amtrak has started ticket sales for the Floridian, a new temporary route offering a direct round-trip between Chicago and Miami with intermediate stops in Tampa, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Washington, D.C., Jacksonville and Orlando.

 

The rail service temporarily combines Capitol Limited and Silver Star due to the East River Tunnel Rehabilitation Project in New York.

 

The Rail Passengers Association, representing more than 40 million riders, said the route will "take pressure off" the Northeast Corridor's infrastructure during the rehab. Previously, travelers going from Chicago to Miami would've transferred trains in D.C., but that won't be the case while the Floridian is running.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2024/09/24/amtrak-announces-new-route-chicago-miami.html

 

20140624acelabushriverbridgemg2603.jpg

"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

  • Author

Capitol-Limited-Cleveland-071723-KJP-5Rs

 

Realities behind Amtrak’s ‘new’ train to Florida
By Ken Prendergast / September 25, 2024

 

While Amtrak’s press release about the creation of a direct-but-temporary Chicago-Florida passenger rail service through Cleveland touted it as an achievement, the reality behind it is actually quite different. According to several sources, the direct service is being implemented to rescue Amtrak from its own shortcomings — both internal and external.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/09/25/realities-behind-amtraks-new-train-to-florida/

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

so let me get this straight, instead of doing major train car fixes during covid downtime, amtrak laid their repair staff off and executives gave themselves bonuses? 

 

sounds like a house cleaning is in order.

 

get rid of all of them except train daddy, put him in charge. see if they can coax ron tober to come aboard too. and i would hope there are a few other good, wise eggs.

3 hours ago, mrnyc said:

so let me get this straight, instead of doing major train car fixes during covid downtime, amtrak laid their repair staff off and executives gave themselves bonuses? 

 

sounds like a house cleaning is in order.

 

get rid of all of them except train daddy, put him in charge. see if they can coax ron tober to come aboard too. and i would hope there are a few other good, wise eggs.

Sounds a lot like airlines and rental car companies as well.  

8 hours ago, mrnyc said:

so let me get this straight, instead of doing major train car fixes during covid downtime, amtrak laid their repair staff off and executives gave themselves bonuses? 

 

sounds like a house cleaning is in order.

 

get rid of all of them except train daddy, put him in charge. see if they can coax ron tober to come aboard too. and i would hope there are a few other good, wise eggs.

It's even worse than that. Members of Congress begged them not to lay people off during the pandemic, but they did it anyway. And yes, there was money to keep things running. Management has been rewarding execs for cutting costs, so they parked the cars and let them sit. They also gave senior employees buyouts, whose skillsets can't be easily replaced. Now Amtrak is scrambling to hire replacements in a hot job market. These bonuses amount to $75 million per year and some members of Congress are not happy about that.

 

Meanwhile, Amtrak teeters on the edge because they don't have enough equipment through their own actions. Logic tells us that a slowdown is exactly when to repair equipment to prepare for the return of business, but execs won't get bonuses for that. Amtrak has been babbling about new long distance cars since at least 2010. It may be years before an order is place and the equipment is delivered. It's also an open question as to whether shortages will force shutdowns over the intervening time.

 

What we are seeing is not a growth strategy and stuff like this Amtrak makes advocating for more service a very frustrating experience. If I had my way, management would get their walking papers. Anymore I find myself looking for non-Amtrak workarounds.

Edited by neony

  • 2 weeks later...

mta & amtrak dropped this feasability study today for increasing capacity at ny penn — the conclusion is no surprize —

 

 

 

 

ICYMI: Amtrak, MTA, and NJ TRANSIT Release Feasibility Study as Next Major Step to Increase Capacity at New York Penn Station

 

MTA 

Updated Oct 2, 2024

 

 

Assesses the technical practicality of four design concepts

 

NEW YORK – Amtrak, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA), and NJ TRANSIT released today the engineering feasibility study, “Doubling Trans-Hudson Train Capacity at New York Penn Station” (NYP), that analyzes the potential of four concepts to double train capacity at the station during the peak period, as well as expand Amtrak Empire Service, without expanding the current station’s footprint. The study concludes none of the concepts achieve this capacity goal, a significant milestone that determines the focus going forward will be on options that expand the station physical footprint.

 

 

more:

https://new.mta.info/press-release/icymi-amtrak-mta-and-nj-transit-release-feasibility-study-next-major-step-increase

 

 

 

October 2, 2024

Amtrak, MTA, and NJ TRANSIT Release Feasibility Study as Next Major Step to Increase Capacity at New York Penn Station

 

more:

https://media.amtrak.com/2024/10/amtrak-mta-and-nj-transit-release-feasibility-study-as-next-major-step-to-increase-capacity-at-new-york-penn-station/

 

 

10 hours ago, mrnyc said:

mta & amtrak dropped this feasability study today for increasing capacity at ny penn — the conclusion is no surprize —

 

 

 

 

ICYMI: Amtrak, MTA, and NJ TRANSIT Release Feasibility Study as Next Major Step to Increase Capacity at New York Penn Station

 

MTA 

Updated Oct 2, 2024

 

 

Assesses the technical practicality of four design concepts

 

NEW YORK – Amtrak, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA), and NJ TRANSIT released today the engineering feasibility study, “Doubling Trans-Hudson Train Capacity at New York Penn Station” (NYP), that analyzes the potential of four concepts to double train capacity at the station during the peak period, as well as expand Amtrak Empire Service, without expanding the current station’s footprint. The study concludes none of the concepts achieve this capacity goal, a significant milestone that determines the focus going forward will be on options that expand the station physical footprint.

 

 

more:

https://new.mta.info/press-release/icymi-amtrak-mta-and-nj-transit-release-feasibility-study-next-major-step-increase

 

 

 

October 2, 2024

Amtrak, MTA, and NJ TRANSIT Release Feasibility Study as Next Major Step to Increase Capacity at New York Penn Station

 

more:

https://media.amtrak.com/2024/10/amtrak-mta-and-nj-transit-release-feasibility-study-as-next-major-step-to-increase-capacity-at-new-york-penn-station/

 

 

Sounds to me that they will end up calling for a deep bore under the existing station and under the East River. Is that right?

7 hours ago, neony said:

Sounds to me that they will end up calling for a deep bore under the existing station and under the East River. Is that right?

 

not sure they are immediately looking at new east river tunnels and thru-running — i think its more about tearing down some blocks around penn station to expand with the gateway tunneling.

 

as it stands the teardown of the block just south of penn station for expansion is understandable by all, but they controversially want to use eminent domain to tear up more around there if they can get away with it because they think its scubby (actually its just regular old school nyc). they did tear down the penn hotel and now its an empty lot and people dont want more of that unless its for income adjusted or working class housing. imo seeking more room for penn station than the penn south block is just an excuse to do teardowns for developers. maybe im off base, but thats my grasp of it. of course they do need to justify penn south though.

they’re making good progress on gateway — 👍

 

 

 

 

More Pieces of $16B Hudson River Rail Tunnel Come Together

 

By James Leggate

October 11, 2024

 

 

As work progresses on existing contracts of the $16.1-billion Hudson Tunnel Project between New York City and northern New Jersey, outgoing Gateway Development Commission CEO Kris Kolluri said during its Oct. 11 meeting that seven of the nine contract packages will be under construction or in procurement by Dec. 31.

 

“A significant amount of work is happening on site and in our finance department,” he said.

 

Work on the Tonnelle Avenue bridge in Jersey City, which will carry road traffic over the New Jersey side approach to the rail tunnel, is about 48% complete, according to Hamed Nejad, commission acting chief technical officer. He also told commissioners that 65% of secant piles for the Hudson Yards concrete casing on the New York City side are complete, crews have begun underpinning the High Line walkway, and 17,000 tons of soil have been excavated to date. 

 

In the river, Nejad said crews have been working on a test section of the riverbed for stabilization and are preparing to start deep soil mixing. 

 

 

more:

https://www.enr.com/articles/59491-more-pieces-of-16b-hudson-river-rail-tunnel-come-together

 

spacer.png

Hudson River ground stabilization work is one of early piece of the Hudson Tunnel Project planned to add a new rail link between New Jersey and New York City. Photo courtesy Gateway Development Commission

 

  • 4 weeks later...
  • Author

Omitted are Brightline's Florida and LA-Vegas routes

 

 

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

I wonder what this means for some of the Ohio projects.

2 minutes ago, guardianpayroll said:

I wonder what this means for some of the Ohio projects.

I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count. Probably toast.

2 hours ago, KJP said:

Omitted are Brightline's Florida and LA-Vegas routes

 

 

Yep. Any discretionary programs will likely go away, except for those funded with monies already disbursed. If any state wants trains, they will have to pay. Socialist trains in blue states will be a no-no and long distance trains will be a goner. Amtrak will probably disappear and the right to run on freight railroad tracks along with it. Ditto transit for "those" people in blue cities. It's all tribal now.

  • Author
1 hour ago, guardianpayroll said:

I wonder what this means for some of the Ohio projects.

 

@guardianpayroll  The only way it happens is if Brightline shows an interest in Ohio. Brightline and America are now run by billionaire oligarchs. If a billionaire doesn't want it, it's not going to happen.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

Miles in Transit managed to get his new Floridian trip report posted already. Unfortunately, they (understandably) slept through Cleveland (since it is on an overnight portion).

 

 

When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?

On 11/14/2024 at 7:17 AM, Boomerang_Brian said:

Miles in Transit managed to get his new Floridian trip report posted already. Unfortunately, they (understandably) slept through Cleveland (since it is on an overnight portion).

 

 

Always good to get reviews before we take the long ride - it is still on our bucket list at some point but the time...Until then we are enjoying seeing the long-haul Amtrak experience thru the eyes of these yutes and others such as this recent Amtrak review we saw on a news aggregation site from a traveler just days before the switich of the route from NYC to Chicago.  If you can overlook the reason for this Brit's (from the Brexit/Farage era) travel from Florida to DC it is another interesting perspective of an experienced world train traveler on the pros/cons of 1st class travel on our Amtrak.

https://raheemkassam.substack.com/p/26-hours-on-an-american-amtrak

Edited by Willo

  • Author

Unfortunately this morning's train #40 was 4 hours late across Ohio thanks to South Carolina freight train congestion.

 

And on Wednesday night, the diner caught fire and was put out by Cumberland, MD fire department. 

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

1 hour ago, KJP said:

Unfortunately this morning's train #40 was 4 hours late across Ohio thanks to South Carolina freight train congestion.

 

And on Wednesday night, the diner caught fire and was put out by Cumberland, MD fire department. 

I can't iamgine on an already lengthy trip from Florida to Chicago. 

If Ohio had least an Acela equivalent (3Cs +) it would encourage intra-State travel and tourism as we found somewhat easy on Acela to/from DC and points north on the corridor. We always paid extra premium for the Acela when able due to the time saved. The regular Amtrak trains (though often on sale for $29 or $39 one way) factored in the track priorites of freight and Acela trains and often have to pull over to allow both to pass. It was torture on these relatively short routes up and down the corridor but still easier than the hourly airline shuttles.  

  • Author
1 hour ago, VintageLife said:

All to be ruined in the next 4 years, most likely. Hopefully Amtrak can survive and grow more and more. 

 

Amtrak isn't a railroad. It's a rollercoaster. But unlike a rollercoaster, it has been trending generally upward since its inception.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

1 hour ago, VintageLife said:

All to be ruined in the next 4 years, most likely. Hopefully Amtrak can survive and grow more and more. 

We are nervously watching what's next for Amtrak and hgih-speed rail.  While DOT SEC nominee Duffy seemed to vote against Amtrak every time when given a chance as Congressman, he has publicly supported nationwide high-speed rail as has Trump.  Let's see how they square those two viewpoints and who Duffy appoints as his transit and rail Administrators. 

 

https://www.travelmole.com/news/us-high-speed-rail-looks-forward-to-working-with-new-dot-chief/

 

https://www.railpassengers.org/happening-now/news/blog/trumps-transportation-secretary-nominee-has-voting-history-that-demands-answers/

  • Author

I'm sure Brightline and anyone else willing to pay to play will be fine under this administration.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

 

More people are riding Amtrak than ever before, and improvements are on the way

By Julianna Bragg, CNN

Published 2:58 PM EST, Tue December 3, 2024

 

Amtrak has reached a historic milestone, carrying 32.8 million passengers on the passenger rail system in fiscal year 2024.

That’s a 15% increase from the previous fiscal year when it carried nearly 28.6 million riders, according to a news release from Amtrak.

 

“This record ridership shows that travelers throughout the U.S. want efficient travel options, and we are committed to meeting that demand,” said Stephen Gardner, Amtrak’s CEO, in the release.

 

Amtrak said its goal is to double its ridership to 66 million passengers a year by 2040.

 

MORE

Took Amtrak Lakeshore Limited Chicago/Cleveland and back for Thanksgiving. Was on time going and a couple hours late coming back due to the weather in NY. Was packed, and tons of Amish. If All Aboard Ohio and Ohio Dems don't engage the Ohio Amish population on the train issue, they should! 

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Author

So if you want to see/photograph Amtrak in daytime across Northern Ohio today, the eastbound Lake Shore Ltd #48 is running about 7 hours late. It was just leaving Chicago last night (on time) when a freight train derailed in Gary, IN, blocking all main tracks. The tracks were cleared overnight.

 

It is due to arrive Toledo about 10 a.m., Sandusky about 11 a.m., and Cleveland about 12 noon or soon thereafter. This is assuming it doesn't lose any more time. You can track it here: https://dixielandsoftware.net/cgi-bin/gettrain.pl?seltrain=48&selyear=2024&selmonth=12&selday=22

 

Or officially here: https://www.amtrak.com/track-your-train.html

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

alternatives to penn south demos included a sub-basement and through running — and of course all this riled everyone up —

 

 

 

Penn Station railroads say complex must be enlarged to meet expected demand

 

By Ben BrachfeldPosted on October 2, 2024

 

 

Amtrak, the MTA, and New Jersey Transit say they cannot expand train capacity at Penn Station without enlarging the terminal’s Midtown footprint, and possibly demolishing several blocks of Midtown Manhattan.

 

 

more:

https://www.amny.com/nyc-transit/penn-station-railroad-complex-enlarge-feasibility/

 

 

 

 

15 hours ago, KJP said:

So if you want to see/photograph Amtrak in daytime across Northern Ohio today, the eastbound Lake Shore Ltd #48 is running about 7 hours late. It was just leaving Chicago last night (on time) when a freight train derailed in Gary, IN, blocking all main tracks. The tracks were cleared overnight.

 

It is due to arrive Toledo about 10 a.m., Sandusky about 11 a.m., and Cleveland about 12 noon or soon thereafter. This is assuming it doesn't lose any more time. You can track it here: https://dixielandsoftware.net/cgi-bin/gettrain.pl?seltrain=48&selyear=2024&selmonth=12&selday=22

 

Or officially here: https://www.amtrak.com/track-your-train.html

 

I just rode the Lake Shore Limited 14 hours east 2 days before... talk about a close call. Luckily we arrived about 10 minutes early.

Amtrak screws over Miami.  27 year of negotiations and millions of dollars spent by the state of Florida, and at the last moment, Amtrak pulls out of a deal to have its trains serve a station at Miami airport.  They apparently did a similar thing in Salt Lake City some years back.  I have had it with Amtrak. They should be embracing the concept of multi-modalism.  We need to completely re-think passenger rail policy in this country, devote the money necessary to build a modern passenger rail system, and ultimately get rid of Amtrak as the nation's go-to operator for passenger trains.

 

Amtrak derails decades of deals to serve Miami International Airport

https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2024/12/30/amtrak-derails-decades-of-deals-to-serve-miami-international-airport/

 

 

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