In the next week, the Wall Street Journal is going to be very confused when Amtrak announces an investment in the Southwest Chief. In short, our friends at Amtrak say they "have learned their lesson" from Congress. The Wall Street Journal has its own agenda which is that long-distance trains serve no valuable purpose. They have misinterpreted what little they know of Amtrak's plan because it fit their own agenda.

 

My understanding is that Amtrak is going to deliver a pretty aggressive plan to Congress with a basic message.... "If you want Amtrak to run a real, modern passenger railroad with refreshed long-distance trains AND multiple, fast trains on more corridors, including those Amtrak doesn't yet presently serve (e.g. 3C, CLE-CHI and CIN-CHI will apparently be in it but will require state support unless PRIIA Sec. 209 is amended or rescinded), then this is what it is going to cost...." Amtrak will not only present a plan but a dollar figure to Congress.

 

I'm told it is going to be a LOT of money. In other words, billions. Just acquiring enough new locomotives for the whole national network will cost upwards of $800 million, for example. That doesn't include expansion.

If Congress doesn't pay to replaced outdated equipment and infrastructure, then long-distance trains will likely be downgraded or discontinued.

 

There apparently are some questions remaining as to how the funding would be awarded. Funds could be paid from the federal treasury directly to Amtrak. They could be awarded competitively by the FRA to Amtrak (Congress will want competitive bidding among Amtrak and private operators). Funds could be distributed by the FRA through a cost-sharing program with the states, much like the FAST Act grants, with the states bidding out services and construction. A mix is possible depending on routes, types of expenditures, etc. Also, if Amtrak wants expansion in partnership with the host railroads (instead of a bitter fight) then it's going to have to pay market-rate track access charges, not the incremental cost it pays now. 

 

Unfortunately, no one among mid- or lower-level Amtrak management knows when anything will be announced. But it could be sometime this year considering that word is already leaking out.

Edited February 24, 20196 yr by KJP

amtrak plans faster trains for the ne corridor:

 

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/New-Acela-Trains-Shorten-Route-Between-DC-New-York-506344971.html

 

they have a hammer, so everything is a nail? a call to apply the new mta L train fix procedure to the gateway tunnels problem.

 

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-edit-gateway-20190301-story.html

more on gateway today:

 

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-metro-schumer-gateway-tunnels-funding-20190304-story.html?outputType=amp

 

$600M for penn station upgrade:

More space, accessibility part of $600 million Penn Station makeover 

MTA project leader Janno Lieber said the upgrades will go a long way toward making the commutes of more than 200,000 Long Island Rail Road riders more "humane."

more:
https://www.amny.com/transit/upgrades-penn-station-lirr-amtrak-1.28623935

Thanks KJP. Been hearing about possible Amtrak interest in Chicago-Toledo-Cleveland and Chicago-Indianapolis-Cincinnati. How this will play out is anyone's guess, but Indiana refusal to fund the Hoosier State will be a negative and of course, Ohio is not exactly at the forefront of state supported Passenger rail. I do hope NE Ohio and Toledo will step up if that state fails to act.

Edited April 13, 20196 yr by neony

Welcome, Neony.

Thank you sir.

Is the new precise train scheduling practiced by CSX and being introduced Norfolk and Southern expected to benefit the timeliness of Amtrak?  Seems as if it should ...

42 minutes ago, Dougal said:

Is the new precise train scheduling practiced by CSX and being introduced Norfolk and Southern expected to benefit the timeliness of Amtrak?  Seems as if it should ...

 

Not at all. It's been a disaster everywhere it's been implemented. Wall Street is pushing for precision train scheduling, not railroad people.

20 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Not at all. It's been a disaster everywhere it's been implemented. Wall Street is pushing for precision train scheduling, not railroad people.

 

The most recent report I read (in the WSJ or the FT) said that after a wrenching year-long adjustment for the railrod AND its customers, CSX now has it working satisfactorily, with a pretty high on-time number - over 70% IIRC. It seems like something that should work, but we all know how those theoretical certainties can go off the rails in practice.  

CSX's plan was to single-track Chicago-Greenwich-Cleveland-Buffalo-Albany/Selkirk-New York (NJ) with passing sidings, coincident with their introduction of "precision railroading." Thankfully that hasn't happened. But Hunter Harrison did chop up the Illinois Central, which drove away nearly half of their customers. He tried it again on the CP, cutting services by half and losing major customers to rival CN. Now CP and CSX are engaged in an apology tour to win back lost customers....

 

More: https://www.wsj.com/articles/canadian-pacific-csx-seek-to-woo-back-customers-upset-by-ex-ceo-hunter-harrison-1519656743

^ Thanks for pointing that out.  It referenced the one I read two weeks ago:

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-revolution-sweeping-railroads-upends-how-america-moves-its-stuff-11554302583?mod=cx_picks&cx_navSource=cx_picks&cx_tag=contextual&cx_artPos=4#cxrecs_s

 

Opinions vary on HH's legacy. ?  But it does sound as if at least some of his "precision" will survive.

No varying opinions here on Hunter Harrison. I would gladly urinate on his grave. But modern-day robber barons like him would have less effect on destroying the nation's rail infrastructure if said infrastructure was publicly owned. Railroads are the only sector of the transportation system that owns, manages, builds, repairs, abandons, finances, dispatches, insures and secures its own infrastructure. And all of those costs are internalized to the railroad operation. It's why we have so little of it left and so much traffic is crammed into what remains, especially when its competitors' infrastructure costs are heavily externalized on to taxpayers. 

Wondering why I had not seen the article you referenced, I dug yesterday's WSJ out of the trash and did not find it.  Do you have a web-only subscription? Or maybe my local edition (Wash DC) didn't choose to carry it ... Letter to editor will be forthcoming. ?

 

Back on HH: Single tracking of branch lines has proved a mistake in Virginia, according to one opinion at the Propeller Club in DC. It's useful only to maintain current operations and prevents growth, according to the speaker.

4 hours ago, Dougal said:

Wondering why I had not seen the article you referenced, I dug yesterday's WSJ out of the trash and did not find it.  Do you have a web-only subscription? Or maybe my local edition (Wash DC) didn't choose to carry it ... Letter to editor will be forthcoming. ?

 

Back on HH: Single tracking of branch lines has proved a mistake in Virginia, according to one opinion at the Propeller Club in DC. It's useful only to maintain current operations and prevents growth, according to the speaker.

 

Nah, I just googled it. Railroads have no long-term business sense. They are hyper-focused on the here-and-now. They have no clue about long-term trends or expectations. So if they no longer need a rail line, many railroads rip it out because if they can't see a new use for it beyond 90 days, it's useless. Eventually, every shipper fades with time, and so each time another one moves or shuts down, the railroad shrinks a little more and makes itself a little less relevant in an unrecoverable way. Not all railroads are so myopic (NS is an exception). I wish more railbanked their rights of way like NS often does.

Next-Generation Acela Rail Cars Taking Shape in N.Y. Factory

Amtrak’s new $2 billion fleet of high-speed trains, built by France’s Alstom, will enter service in two years

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/next-generation-acela-rail-cars-taking-shape-in-n-y-factory-11557662401

new penn moynihan renders

 

 

 

new main entrance to penn  --- there will be a total of six new entrances.

 

 

 

Any chance that gets though the Senate and past the veto pen?

I don't expect the Senate to reduce, if at all, the House amounts. Both houses of Congress have been pretty supportive of passenger rail and transit. Trump has complained about but not vetoed recent transportation spending bills as they they are staying under the funding ceilings as set by the FAST Act.

^ hear! hear!

 

 

amtrak penn service improvements video:

 

 

https://www.amny.com/news/amtrak-penn-station-1.34253409

5 hours ago, mrnyc said:

^ hear! hear!

amtrak penn service improvements video:

 

I'm glad Amtrak will be bringing back non-stop NY-DC trains in September - one roundtrip with a promise of more. I thought they claimed the Acela fleet was maxed out, but somehow they are finding the utilization time. 

I'm still mystified why Connecticut DOT has a 79 mph limit (and on many segments, far lower) along the Shore Line east to New Haven. The limit should be 90 on most segments with rails secured directly to bridge decks and 90+ with ballasted bridge decks. Constant-tension overhead wires have already been installed by ConnDOT so that's no longer an impediment to high-speed operations.

 

Travel times between New Haven and New York, for instance, are slower now that they were in 1949 (the Merchant’s Limited was scheduled at 83 minutes; the fastest Acela now takes 92), even if the technology, equipment and infrastructure are (at least in theory) much better.

 

The slow-running between New Rochelle and New Haven is mind-numbing. Just a steady 90 mph would be a massive improvement and make a decent dent in NYC-BOS trip times.

Edited July 29, 20195 yr by KJP

Each of the last two weeks I've ended up using the Milwaukee Intermodal Station to catch the direct bus to Chicago O'Hare to return home to Cleveland Thursday evening.  (Because the Southwest direct flight is in the early afternoon.  Anyway...)  This is the Amtrak station for both the Hiawatha Express with 7 daily trips to Chicago Union Station and the Empire Builder (Chicago to Seattle).  It is also the home to Greyhound, Megabus, and a bunch of regional bus lines.  The new streetcar has a station just across the street.  This Intermodal Center is a good example of what @KJP has been advocating for to replace the existing Cleveland Amtrak station, East 9th Waterfront line RTA station, and a relocated Greyhound station, hopefully in combination with a land bridge from the Mall across the railroad tracks and Shoreway.  With that in mind, I though the Urban Ohio crew might enjoy a little photo tour.

 

The Milwaukee Intermodal Station is in downtown Milwaukee and was fully rebuilt in 2007 on the site of the previous train station.  It has a large, pleasant, light filled waiting area - three walls are glass.  It has both a small restaurant and a convenience store, along with restrooms.  This photo tour is a combination of pictures I found online and a few that I took.

 

And yes, I spent my entire journey home thinking about how if we had proper high speed rail in this country I could have made the trip in 3.5 hours (downtown Milwaukee to downtown Cleveland).  Especially when United changed my gate in O'Hare 5 times in less than 2 hours and I didn't get home until 3am, roughly 3 hours late.

 

 

The buses use the spaces to the right in this picture.  The trains pass through behind.

 

 

In this view from the rear, you can see that the train shed has two island platforms plus a single sided platform closest to the station's waiting area.

 

 

Each platform is connected via escalators and elevators to an overhead passenger walkway:

 

 

The bus area:

 

 

Waiting area.  The wall to the left is entirely glass, as seen in the first image above.

 

 

Trainspotting - the Hiawatha, about to leave for Chicago.

 

 

Thanks for the pics! The overhead walkway, escalators and elevators are a new addition as well as refurbished platforms.

8 hours ago, Terdolph said:

Almost as nice as the Terminal Tower intermodal station we already have.

 

Except there's no railroad tracks into Cleveland Union Terminal Tower. The cost of restoring them for four Amtrak trains per day would be in the $100 million to $150 million range and add nearly 30 minutes to each train's schedule due to slower-speed operations, primarily due to tighter curves but also due to having to reenter Norfolk Southern's flow of traffic. Then there's the cost of building a new station (or ripping  out the parking facilities from the old station) which could be in the $50 million to $75 million range.

42 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Except there's no railroad tracks into Cleveland Union Terminal Tower. The cost of restoring them for four Amtrak trains per day would be in the $100 million to $150 million range and add nearly 30 minutes to each train's schedule due to slower-speed operations, primarily due to tighter curves but also due to having to reenter Norfolk Southern's flow of traffic. Then there's the cost of building a new station (or ripping  out the parking facilities from the old station) which could be in the $50 million to $75 million range.

 

You are remarkably patient in explaining things that you have explained in this forum many times before. I genuinely appreciate that - I’m sure there are casual viewers or random new members who have never heard these things before. As always, thank you!

Edited July 30, 20195 yr by Boomerang_Brian

Press 1 to hear why we can't do that.

Press 2 to hear how much it might cost if we could.

Press 3 to hear how long it would take to plan/design/build if federal funds are used.

Press 4 to hear all the ways other countries are running circles around us, transportation-wise.

Press 5 to hear about all of the transportation options we used to have in Ohio and the USA.

On 7/28/2019 at 10:31 PM, KJP said:

I'm still mystified why Connecticut DOT has a 79 mph limit (and on many segments, far lower) along the Shore Line east to New Haven. The limit should be 90 on most segments with rails secured directly to bridge decks and 90+ with ballasted bridge decks. Constant-tension overhead wires have already been installed by ConnDOT so that's no longer an impediment to high-speed operations.

 

Travel times between New Haven and New York, for instance, are slower now that they were in 1949 (the Merchant’s Limited was scheduled at 83 minutes; the fastest Acela now takes 92), even if the technology, equipment and infrastructure are (at least in theory) much better.

 

The slow-running between New Rochelle and New Haven is mind-numbing. Just a steady 90 mph would be a massive improvement and make a decent dent in NYC-BOS trip times.

 

 

yes acela has saved us a whole 15mins in getting to boston over the years -- i found this:

 

The Merchants Limited the New Haven's crack express, with diesel power in 1963 would cover the distance from New York to Boston in 3 hours and 55 minutes. The Acela Express, in the same time slot and far from it’s proposed goal of 3 hours, covers the distance in 3 hours and 40 minutes.

 

ha.

 

i read one of the big issues is they have no way of seeing ahead, so the trains have to run at whatever speed they are assigned for an entire block of distance. that often leaves for a lot of dead slow travel for no reason. you see this clearly happening on both the boston and dc bound trains and its very frustrating. so that system could use updating. 

 

i'm sure there are other reasons as well,  curves and bottlenecks and the like. 

 

i know amtrak does have a goal of 3h8m to boston, i dk where they are in even incrementally doing anything about that goal though.

 

This weekend I took NE Regional trains New Carrollton - Penn Station.  The ride was pretty good except for the Wilmington-Baltimore stretch southbound, which was too bumpy for even Regional trains, I would guess.  The ride was so rough I'd say the train was speeding, except we were on time; so it was apparently travelling at its specified speed. Is one of the four mainline tracks not up to standard?

I noticed that stretch was bumpy last year when I rode Acela. I have no idea what the schedule/location is for Amtrak's track renewal crews.

As @mrnyc has pointed out, huge improvements to Penn Station are now very obvious and the completion of underground work is in sight.  Lighting and directional signs are much (like night and day) improved. Going between Amtrak and the LIRR is no longer a magical mystery tour.   

 

On 7/29/2019 at 9:19 PM, Boomerang_Brian said:

Each of the last two weeks I've ended up using the Milwaukee Intermodal Station to catch the direct bus to Chicago O'Hare to return home to Cleveland Thursday evening.  (Because the Southwest direct flight is in the early afternoon.  Anyway...)  This is the Amtrak station for both the Hiawatha Express with 7 daily trips to Chicago Union Station and the Empire Builder (Chicago to Seattle).  It is also the home to Greyhound, Megabus, and a bunch of regional bus lines.  The new streetcar has a station just across the street.  This Intermodal Center is a good example of what @KJP has been advocating for to replace the existing Cleveland Amtrak station, East 9th Waterfront line RTA station, and a relocated Greyhound station, hopefully in combination with a land bridge from the Mall across the railroad tracks and Shoreway.  With that in mind, I though the Urban Ohio crew might enjoy a little photo tour.

 

The Milwaukee Intermodal Station is in downtown Milwaukee and was fully rebuilt in 2007 on the site of the previous train station.  It has a large, pleasant, light filled waiting area - three walls are glass.  It has both a small restaurant and a convenience store, along with restrooms.  This photo tour is a combination of pictures I found online and a few that I took.

 

And yes, I spent my entire journey home thinking about how if we had proper high speed rail in this country I could have made the trip in 3.5 hours (downtown Milwaukee to downtown Cleveland).  Especially when United changed my gate in O'Hare 5 times in less than 2 hours and I didn't get home until 3am, roughly 3 hours late.

 

 

Does anyone here have a contact at the PD?  This story and the pictures should be widely distributed (with a comparison photo of the Cleveland station) with KJP's proposed intermodal.  I don't the average person in Ohio has any clue about what they're missing.  And until they do, there will be no pressure on our representatives to change that.

I do, but what's the news angle? I can tell you there may be mutual interest between some state officials and Amtrak in providing lawmakers and others a tour of another Midwest state's passenger rail service that has resulted from a state-supported program. That might provide the news angle.

Biden advocating for rail and mass transit, hooray! (Video link)

 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/09/05/joe-biden-cnn-climate-crisis-town-hall-rail-and-cars-sot-2020-vpx.cnn

 

“Joe Biden: We can take millions of vehicles off the road

Former Vice President Joe Biden tells CNN's Anderson Cooper about what it would take for mass transit and a rail system in the US to succeed, and how electric cars could create jobs and opportunities.”

 

 

On 6/5/2019 at 4:37 PM, KJP said:

 

 

Update....

 

Senate appropriators approved spending levels for all 12 Fiscal Year 2020 spending bills, setting aside $74.3 billion for transportation and housing.

 

Rail Passengers should find out the specific levels and policy riders next week, with a mark-up scheduled for the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee on Transportation and Housing. Transportation leadership expects to avoid controversy, and the numbers are expected to match well with the House rail funding levels.

 

“I’ve worked very closely with our ranking member, our staffs have worked very closely, and I expect at least at the subcommittee level, that everything will go smoothly,” said subcommittee Chairwoman Susan Collins (R-Maine). “You never know what’s going to come out of the full committee.”

 

https://www.railpassengers.org/happening-now/news/hotline/hotline-1134/

“for two days only, Amtrak is having a 50% off sale on travel this November.”

 

https://lifehacker.com/get-50-off-amtrak-tickets-right-now-1839262210

 

Save 50% Nationwide on Fall Fares (purchased on October 22-23):

 

https://m.amtrak.com/h5/r/www.amtrak.com/fall-getaway

 

 

Edited October 22, 20195 yr by Boomerang_Brian
Added sale dates

Another Amtrak sale:  Save 60% on November Travel

 

Start Giving Thanks Early This Year

Pumpkin pie. Turkey. Cranberry sauce and apple cider. Who wouldn’t want to start celebrating Thanksgiving early? And with Amtrak, there’s more to be thankful for than ever. From November 5 to November 7, 2019 you can get 60% off many fares nationally for holiday travel anytime between November 11 to November 24, 2019.

 

https://m.amtrak.com/h5/r/www.amtrak.com/national-60-deal?dclid=CNuskrG41OUCFYLewAod3IQIWA

 

 

Amtrak, Seeking to Break Even, Sees Some Light at the End of the Tunnel

The passenger-rail operator cut losses as ridership hit a record 32.5 million trips in 2019 fiscal year

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amtrak-seeking-to-break-even-sees-some-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-11573223401

7 minutes ago, KJP said:

Amtrak, Seeking to Break Even, Sees Some Light at the End of the Tunnel

The passenger-rail operator cut losses as ridership hit a record 32.5 million trips in 2019 fiscal year

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amtrak-seeking-to-break-even-sees-some-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-11573223401

 

I’m interested in the response to the quote in the article: 

“The best five years of Amtrak’s history have been the last five,” said Anthony Coscia, the chairman of Amtrak’s board of directors, in an interview. “We’re within visibility of earning a profit for the first time in the company’s history.”

 

Last five are the best five in Amtrak history. Agree? Disagree? It’s not like the bar is set high. 

Depends on what your metrics are. If you mean service available to more regions of the country, then the years leading up to 1979 would qualify -- especially for Ohio and the Midwest. We lost a lot of service from the Carter budgets cuts of 1979, including service to Columbus and Dayton which has yet to return.

 

Ditto for the years leading up to 2003, when Amtrak decided to get out of the mail/express business. We lost a lot of trains then, too. Including the only daylight train service to Ohio. That was the Chicago-Philadelphia "Pennsylvanian" which retreated to its previous Pittsburgh-New York City route. The level of incompetence I encountered in trying to work with Amtrak in improving that train service was incredible. Except for writing and editing the Ohio Passenger Rail News, I withdrew from being a passenger rail advocate until I traveled to Europe for the first time in 2007.

 @KJP gets a nice shout out from Susan Glaser in her Plain Dealer article on taking Amtrak to Chicago.  This is great coverage for awareness.  And it does a good job of covering the reasons for schedule challenges and what Amtrak is doing about it.

 

It also revisits the Ohio 3C train debacle, which was fresh on my mind since I had yet another round trip to Columbus in my car this weekend on an absolutely packed I-71.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/life-and-culture/g66l-2019/11/ff77621f463469/amtrak-from-cleveland-to-chicago-a-relaxing-ride-despite-middleofthenight-departures-late-trains-.html

 

 

Amtrak from Cleveland to Chicago: A relaxing ride despite middle-of-the-night departures, late trains

 

 

Edited November 11, 20195 yr by Boomerang_Brian

5 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

 @KJP gets a nice shout out from Susan Glaser in her Plain Dealer article on taking Amtrak to Chicago.  This is great coverage for awareness.  And it does a good job of covering the reasons for schedule challenges and what Amtrak is doing about it.

 

It also revisits the Ohio 3C train debacle, which was fresh on my mind since I had yet another round trip to Columbus in my car this weekend on an absolutely packed I-71.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/life-and-culture/g66l-2019/11/ff77621f463469/amtrak-from-cleveland-to-chicago-a-relaxing-ride-despite-middleofthenight-departures-late-trains-.html

 

 

Amtrak from Cleveland to Chicago: A relaxing ride despite middle-of-the-night departures, late trains

 

 

 

I traveled back from Cincinnati three days ago on Friday evening, passing through Columbus at 4:30-5 pm and moving at 75 mph in bumper-to-bumper traffic across the three lanes, all the way back to Cleveland. It was crazy, stressful and dangerous. Two times we went from 75 mph to near zero in a very short distance to get around a recent crash. That's not civilized. We're better than that.

Edited November 11, 20195 yr by KJP

Amtrak sale this weekend - 35% off for travel through April

 

https://m.amtrak.com/h5/r/www.amtrak.com/trackfridaysale?dclid=CPnVoNnmkOYCFQQ8TwodrY4AFw

 

Track Friday Sale - Save 35% Nationwide

BOOK NOW

Happy Track Friday

Forget the shopping carts and fill your thoughts with travel plans instead — Amtrak is bringing Black Friday to the tracks. Now through Cyber Monday, save 35% on one-way travel nationwide for travel from December 9, 2019 to April 30, 2020. Why spend your savings on things when you could spend them on opportunities to travel, discover and relax?

 

A terrific news segment from May. HSR is already operating beyond Europe and Asia, including in Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iran, Uzbekistan -- but barely in the USA....

 

Japan has trains that can reach nearly 200 miles per hour. France began high-speed train service in the '80s. China has the world's fastest and largest high-speed rail network. And the U.S., well the U.S. has next to nothing. Watch the full video here:

 

The US is terrible at building high-speed rail — here’s why

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/07/why-is-there-no-high-speed-rail-in-the-us.html

An article in today's WSJ makes it sound as if AMTRAK's management and the House Transportation Committee's chairman are working at cross purposes. Rep. Peter DeFazio: " ... I think they should think about efficiency but not profit..." 

 

I did like AMTRAK's chairman's comment, "What we're after here is the person who lives in Atlanta or Charlotte who doesn't have train service ... the person who has to wake up at 3 in the morning in Cleveland to take a train."

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/surging-amtrak-seeks-green-light-from-congress-11577889706?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1