Wow.  For the first time, I think ever... I was delighted to read the comments section on Cleveland.com.  Please check them out.

 

This really is a new low for the PD.

 

Read the comments or which story?  ;)

Wow. For the first time, I think ever... I was delighted to read the comments section on Cleveland.com. Please check them out.

 

This really is a new low for the PD.

 

I agree, this is completely stupid!  Maybe I should write and tell them about all the crimes I've been victim to in my many years in the suburbs.  Idiots.

Agreed.  Everyone who has posted so far is either sickened by the topic or purposelly deflecting their answers to the problems with white flight and high taxes.

Congrats Laura Johnston, you'll be remembered for this sensationalist tripe for the rest of your career.

This same reporter interviewed Jeffrey T. and me yesterday about downtown safety.  Of course, our responses involved around the fact that we did feel safe, the shooting didn't change our perception of downtown, you have to have street smarts (travel in groups, in well traveled and well lit areas, etc, etc).  She must've not gotten what she wanted from us.  I was a little weary about talking to her, cause if she twists my words, I'm gonna be beyond pissed.

^How did she contact you? 

^How did she contact you? 

 

Jeffrey T's friend referred him, then he referred me.  The reporter chick wanted to talk to downtown residents about our feelings on downtown safety.  You want her info, mayor?

Oh, I have it... and she best be prepared for the shreading she is going to receive from me this afternoon.  Looks like I'm skipping my lunch today.

Go mayor!  :whip:

Congrats Laura Johnston, you'll be remembered for this sensationalist tripe for the rest of your career.

 

After she notices all the comments on cleveland.com, and I'm assuming some emails she has received, I wonder if the story will just be quietly dropped...

yeah, i sent her an email as soon as i read this.  I'm sure she's gotten dozens. 

Ooo, a response.

 

From me:

 

"Ms. Johnston, you should be ashamed for posting this story today.  The PD's negative slant against this city has got to stop or at least take a few days off.  I mean, what do you possibly hope to accomplish with this post?  Don't you think that enough is enough and that things are bad enough in Cleveland without having to be reminded how much worse they are with a mean spirited post like this.  I guess what sparked this idea was Mayor Jackson's and Joe Cimperman's naivety about downtowm crime following Saturday's execution, but think about the dozens of racially charged horror stories we'll be hearing about.  What possible good does that serve anyone.

 

Have some loyalty for the city and its people for once."

 

 

A nice reply actually.

 

"TBideon",

Thanks for writing. I understand and agree. I've talked to a bunch of folks who live and work downtown, and most feel completely safe. Obviously with the caveat that they're careful. The story will definitely reflect that.

Thanks for writing.

Laura

 

Laura Johnston

The Plain Dealer

1801 Superior Ave.

Cleveland, Ohio 44114

phone: (216) 999-4115

fax: (216) 999-6374"

Recently in the PD comments an editor had to come in and try to restate the article's point.  Seems like they're getting beat up pretty well already.  I too am surprised how many pro-city comments there are.  It shows how little actual experience with the city some of their regular posters have.

 

If this article led to an open dialogue about how best to improve safety, it wouldn't be a bad thing at all.  I doubt that will happen though.  What I'd rather see the PD do is talk to the mayor and the police chief and union head about what went wrong, and what they've done in the past week to address it. 

^This is the editor's comment:

 

Posted by cquinn on 02/27/09 at 10:23AM

I'm Chris Quinn, the Metro Editor at The Plain Dealer, and I want to correct a misperception about the aim here. The Plain Dealer is working on a story about the safety of downtown Cleveland. We're trying to determine whether a pattern exists in the crimes that do happen, to show people how they might avoid being victims. We are not looking to sensationalize the crimes that have occurred. Crime statistics tell only part of the story. The experiences of crime victims tell another part.

^The editor is covering up.  If the article had been something like "Tell us about your experiences, bad and good, in Cleveland" or "Do you feel Cleveland is safe" then I could see this being a somewhat objective article.  But the theme "Are you a victim of crime in downtown Cleveland? Share your story" is written in an overely negatively slanted, almost enthusiastic connotation.  The question itself is negative

 

My comment (and boy did I try to be nice):

cquinn -

If you want a complete story on downtown safety, you need to change your title to "Share your thoughts on downtown safety". Currently, your title is biased towards negative experiences. I know your reporter has interviewed downtown residents about their experiences, and our responses are largely positive. Why not request positive responses from everyone else too? Why are you probing just the negative?

 

 

^Thank you. The "oh really, no - we're NOT trying to sensationalize" comment is nothing but backpedaling horsesh!t. God they're grasping at straws, aren't they?

I don't find Mr. Quinn's assertions credible.  Statistics, particularly on maps, will give a pretty clear view of whatever patterns exist.  Like stay away from that CMHA thing.  Victim accounts aren't going to be scientific, and it isn't hard to predict what they would sound like as a whole.  Scary.  I'm guessing the PD, Mr. Quinn and Ms. Johnston, were well aware of that.   

I love ClevelandBro's comment.

My comment (and boy did I try to be nice):

cquinn -

If you want a complete story on downtown safety, you need to change your title to "Share your thoughts on downtown safety". Currently, your title is biased towards negative experiences. I know your reporter has interviewed downtown residents about their experiences, and our responses are largely positive. Why not request positive responses from everyone else too? Why are you probing just the negative?

 

:clap:

I just got back from travelling out of the country and I tuned into cleveland.com to see what was going on (Monday).  The headline when I logged on?  Something about how hot dog sales were going to suffer on opening day this year because it was on a Friday during Lent.  I didn't think they could get much more pathetic until I saw this story.

yeah, i sent her an email as soon as i read this.   I'm sure she's gotten dozens.

Ooo, a response.

 

From me:

 

"Ms. Johnston, you should be ashamed for posting this story today. The PD's negative slant against this city has got to stop or at least take a few days off. I mean, what do you possibly hope to accomplish with this post? Don't you think that enough is enough and that things are bad enough in Cleveland without having to be reminded how much worse they are with a mean spirited post like this. I guess what sparked this idea was Mayor Jackson's and Joe Cimperman's naivety about downtowm crime following Saturday's execution, but think about the dozens of racially charged horror stories we'll be hearing about. What possible good does that serve anyone.

 

Have some loyalty for the city and its people for once."

 

 

A nice reply actually.

 

"TBideon",

Thanks for writing. I understand and agree. I've talked to a bunch of folks who live and work downtown, and most feel completely safe. Obviously with the caveat that they're careful. The story will definitely reflect that.

Thanks for writing.

Laura

 

Laura Johnston

The Plain Dealer

1801 Superior Ave.

Cleveland, Ohio 44114

phone: (216) 999-4115

fax: (216) 999-6374"

 

I wrote her an email this morning and got the exact same response, word for word.

Interesting... I spent most of my lunch writing a lengthy piece outlying much of my frustrations with our newspaper.  I wasn't a jerk, though I did stick many of their own words back in their face from quotes from articles I've held onto for a long time.  I actually ended by telling her not to bother with her cut and pasted response, and that I would appreciate the courtesy of well thought response.  There is hope for this article yet... her response:

 

"-

Thanks for writing. I do appreciate it. And although I didn't write any

of the articles you've referenced, I do understand your complaint.

I grew up in Bath, spent nine years out of town, living in Chicago,

Indiana, New York City and New Jersey. I chose to come back to Cleveland

because I like the ease of life, the cost of living, the seasons, etc. I

love this area. I hate the negativity that pervades so many minds (and

comments on cleveland.com).

The post on cleveland.com soliciting crime victims looks sensational, I

agree. But the story will not be.

Sincerely,

Laura Johnston

I hate the negativity that pervades so many minds (and

comments on cleveland.com).

The post on cleveland.com soliciting crime victims looks sensational, I

agree. But the story will not be.

Sincerely,

Laura Johnston

 

So why make that post then if you agree that it looks sensational and you claim to hate the negativity?  At least she responded with something more personal...

 

I'm really intrigued to see how this plays out.  I spoke with her for about 20 minutes on the phone, I know she spoke with docbroc, and two of my other friends who live Downtown (who sadly aren't on UO, I don't think...). 

 

I was appalled by this move by them, truly disgusting. 

The Plain Dealer owes city residents an apology.

Is it just me, or has the paper gone straight to hell since this new editor came in.

Interesting... I spent most of my lunch writing a lengthy piece outlying much of my frustrations with our newspaper.  I wasn't a jerk, though I did stick many of their own words back in their face from quotes from articles I've held onto for a long time.  I actually ended by telling her not to bother with her cut and pasted response, and that I would appreciate the courtesy of well thought response.  There is hope for this article yet... her response:

 

"-

Thanks for writing. I do appreciate it. And although I didn't write any

of the articles you've referenced, I do understand your complaint.

I grew up in Bath, spent nine years out of town, living in Chicago,

Indiana, New York City and New Jersey. I chose to come back to Cleveland

because I like the ease of life, the cost of living, the seasons, etc. I

love this area. I hate the negativity that pervades so many minds (and

comments on cleveland.com).

The post on cleveland.com soliciting crime victims looks sensational, I

agree. But the story will not be.

Sincerely,

Laura Johnston

 

Haha, I love how you made her type a different response.

The Plain Dealer owes city residents an apology.

Is it just me, or has the paper gone straight to hell since this new editor came in.

 

Yes, the paper does owe the city an apology, and yes, the paper sucks even more with this new editor.  I can not support this news publication.

Well lets hope the Plain Dealer doesn't end up like the Rocky Mountain News in Denver or the SF Chronicle.

 

let this be awake up call.  Their editorial board and EIC needs to clean house and change the culture of the news paper.

 

 

 

On an unrelated note: I went to school with this young lady.  Maybe I can egg her house if she is not good for her word, UO guerrilla warfare style.  :laugh:

Its a business like everything else.  No one is going to buy a paper because the headline says:

 

"EVERYTHING FINE DOWNTOWN, RESIDENTS FEEL SAFE"

 

Like the TV news,

 

"NO SNOW LAST NIGHT, NO SCHOOLS CLOSED, FILM AT ELEVEN"

On an unrelated note: I went to school with this young lady.  Maybe I can egg her house if she is not good for her word, UO guerrilla warfare style.  :laugh:

 

I'm sending you a coupon for eggs!

Its a business like everything else. No one is going to buy a paper because the headline says:

 

"EVERYTHING FINE DOWNTOWN, RESIDENTS FEEL SAFE"

 

Like the TV news,

 

"NO SNOW LAST NIGHT, NO SCHOOLS CLOSED, FILM AT ELEVEN"

 

Are you sure? Because it sounds like people are pretty fed up with this type of shit.

 

I really think the media (and this doesn't only apply to Cleveland .. it's the same in a lot of places) needs to stop treating people like idiots. It's such obvious manipulation because outrage and controversy draws people. I guess it sells papers, but does it establish a credible media outlet? It's such desperate tactics, and for me personally, I'd never buy copies of a paper that stoops to such obvious tactics.

 

Of course they'll deny that this is the case, like we've seen in Laura Johnston's responses. But we know better. I say, stop buying them. Let them go down in flames as far as I'm concerned. I could care less if the Plain Dealer were to close its doors forever. I'd rather Cleveland have no paper than a shit paper.

.

I agree, it appears that the print industry is almost done!

 

But, all media treats people like they are idiots!  Look at some of the TV news stories.  Sensationalism sells.

I agree, it appears that the print industry is almost done!

 

But, all media treats people like they are idiots!  Look at some of the TV news stories.  Sensationalism sells.

 

Hey...hey...hey...as a member of the media, I resent that.  That is a flat out lie!

 

 

 

On an unrelated note: I went to school with this young lady. Maybe I can egg her house if she is not good for her word, UO guerrilla warfare style. :laugh:

 

I'm sending you a coupon for eggs!

 

Cartons of large eggs happen to be on sale this week at Giant Eagle for $1 ;).

One thing I've heard from a few people who have moved here is that they are shocked by the level of hate locals exhibit towards their cities in Ohio.

 

Why do you think this is unique to Ohio?  I guess you don't get out much!  Do you think the people in Norwich or Cooperstown, New York have a fondness for NYC?  How about those in southern Illinois?  Think they are dying to get to Chicago?  How about one closer to home, do you think the people in Allegan, Michigan wish they lived in Detroit?

 

It's the same where ever there are large cities dominating the population of a state.

I kinda think maybe DanB may not have been out of state much. 

Not totally unique to Ohio, but you used a couple of the worst examples.

NY and Chicago, yeah kindof draws for others within and outside those states (did you think the people of those states left for citites in Ohio?). 

 

Residents, workers believe Downtown Cleveland is safe

Posted by Laura Johnston/Plain Dealer Reporter March 01, 2009 04:50AM

 

Melissa Zujkowski walks her dog downtown at 2 a.m.

 

She shares an East Fourth Street condo with her husband, walks to her law firm at Tower City, sees every Broadway show at PlayhouseSquare. She has never felt unsafe.

 

So the shootings on East 12th Street last weekend haven't shaken her sense of security; they frustrate her because they may overshadow the

positives downtown...

 

Post edited 9-4-09 to comply with terms of use

Plain Dealer computer-assisted reporting editor Rich Exner and reporter Mark Puente contributed to this story.

Folks, this is a plea, when posting, please, please, please include a link

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/residents_workers_believe_down.html

 

Lo siento mucho, senor.  Se ha fijado.

Lo siento mucho, senor.  Se ha fijado.

 

LOL  Laaawd!

I think the article was pretty fair.  Hell, she quoted someone who said they would feel as safe in Legacy Village as Downtown, which would probably put her among the 1% of people who feel that way. 

I think the article was pretty fair.  Hell, she quoted someone who said they would feel as safe in Legacy Village as Downtown, which would probably put her among the 1% of people who feel that way. 

not necessarily true. My cousins (female) say they are much more cautious when shooping in the 'burbs.

I kinda think maybe DanB may not have been out of state much. 

Not totally unique to Ohio, but you used a couple of the worst examples.

NY and Chicago, yeah kindof draws for others within and outside those states (did you think the people of those states left for citites in Ohio?). 

 

 

Read much Willy?  The discussion and my response had nothing to do with drawing people to the cities.  Strictly what those in the state, outside the cities, think about the cities.  The people in those states as a whole, outside of those cities, don't think much of them.  And that's all based on my personal experience.

I think the article was pretty fair. Hell, she quoted someone who said they would feel as safe in Legacy Village as Downtown, which would probably put her among the 1% of people who feel that way.

not necessarily true. My cousins (female) say they are much more cautious when shooping in the 'burbs.

 

I am not comparing downtown to the 'burbs.  Just downtown to Legacy Village. 

I think the article was pretty fair.  Hell, she quoted someone who said they would feel as safe in Legacy Village as Downtown, which would probably put her among the 1% of people who feel that way. 

not necessarily true. My cousins (female) say they are much more cautious when shooping in the 'burbs.

 

I am not comparing downtown to the 'burbs.  Just downtown to Legacy Village. 

 

I was speaking about Beachwood in general as they are frequent Legacy, La Place and Beachwood Place shoppers.

 

 

Comprendo.

I hate the negativity that pervades so many minds (and

comments on cleveland.com).

The post on cleveland.com soliciting crime victims looks sensational, I

agree. But the story will not be.

Sincerely,

Laura Johnston

 

So why make that post then if you agree that it looks sensational and you claim to hate the negativity?  At least she responded with something more personal...

 

 

I got the impression that she didn't make the post, but some editor did.  She was just the one who would be writing the story.

 

Regarding the story, I thouhgt it was a very fair well done piece.

I kinda think maybe DanB may not have been out of state much. 

Not totally unique to Ohio, but you used a couple of the worst examples.

NY and Chicago, yeah kindof draws for others within and outside those states (did you think the people of those states left for citites in Ohio?). 

 

 

Read much Willy?  The discussion and my response had nothing to do with drawing people to the cities.  Strictly what those in the state, outside the cities, think about the cities.  The people in those states as a whole, outside of those cities, don't think much of them.  And that's all based on my personal experience.

 

Comprehend much Dan :??  The discussion and the other comments is in regard to the perception and local attitude towards our city’s (Clevelanders specifically in some of the arguments, since very often people from other places cant believe the negative attitudes we have towards our own cities) and how the local media contributes to that.

 

I was simply pointing out how your argument was bad and irrelevant.  You using an example of people that would likely not appreciate any big city.  What somebody from southern Illinois feels about Chicago etc. would be relevant if we were talking about how somebody from Marietta or Portsmouth feels about Cleveland, I’m guessing many of the people except for the types I mention wouldn’t necessarily “think much about” the city at the opposite end of the state, since it most likely would lie outside of what matters to them. 

 

I actually attempted to make your argument relevant the best I could, thus the logical connection being to compare equivalent people from the places you mention.  So I wont further go into how people in and around Chicago really seem to love their city and how I would not likely hear them saying that they wished they were another city......