April 16, 200916 yr One of the more interesting data points is actually being done right now, which is the housing count. We'll get a really good sense of the capacity of a lot of cities after this.
April 16, 200916 yr I just seen a census person going door to door yesterday.. I'm sure there are gains and loses all over the state..youngstown probably lost the most.. and I'd say Columbus gained again.
April 16, 200916 yr Urban Columbus may actually be in worse shape than many think. The Northeast side is looking worse for wear with a fair number of tear downs from driving around. Cincinnati will have lost quite a bit especially on the west side hillsides.
April 16, 200916 yr Does Cleveland count the 6000+ students in University Circle who live in Cleveland at least 9 months out of the year? (CWRU, CIA, CIM) I'm certainly no authority but I am almost certain I remember them doing the census when I was still in college and living off campus and I was counted. I don't know how they treat on-campus students.
April 16, 200916 yr I would expect Akron to be around 200K...and maybe, just maybe for Akron & Canton to actually be counted in the same MSA....
April 16, 200916 yr You are supposed to counted at your primary residence as of April 1st 2010, which means most college students should be counted at campus. There have been battles about counting dorms and the like for years. We could go biblical and have everyone return to their hometown to be counted.
April 16, 200916 yr You are supposed to counted at your primary residence as of April 1st 2010, which means most college students should be counted at campus. There have been battles about counting dorms and the like for years. We could go biblical and have everyone return to their hometown to be counted. As a college student, I was always told that when I lived in the dorm, my primary residence was still my parent's house, or wherever my guardians live.
April 16, 200916 yr As a college student, I was always told that when I lived in the dorm, my primary residence was still my parent's house, or wherever my guardians live. But for many people, the dorm is their primary/permanent residence. I didn't have a "parent's house" to go home to once I left for college (mom sold the house and moved out of my hometown to a 1-bedroom apartment in a new city), and nobody claimed me on their taxes anymore either. I was my own person and the dorm was my residence.
April 16, 200916 yr As a college student, I was always told that when I lived in the dorm, my primary residence was still my parent's house, or wherever my guardians live. But for many people, the dorm is their primary/permanent residence. I didn't have a "parent's house" to go home to once I left for college (mom sold the house and moved out of my hometown to a 1-bedroom apartment in a new city), and nobody claimed me on their taxes anymore either. I was my own person and the dorm was my residence. I'm thinking the same way Neville is. I'm under the impression that if someone can still claim you on their taxes, that address is your "primary/permanent" address.
April 16, 200916 yr As a college student, I was always told that when I lived in the dorm, my primary residence was still my parent's house, or wherever my guardians live. But for many people, the dorm is their primary/permanent residence. I didn't have a "parent's house" to go home to once I left for college (mom sold the house and moved out of my hometown to a 1-bedroom apartment in a new city), and nobody claimed me on their taxes anymore either. I was my own person and the dorm was my residence. I'm thinking the same way Neville is. I'm under the impression that if someone can still claim you on their taxes, that address is your "primary/permanent" address. I'm pretty sure that if you are claimed as a dependent on someone's taxes, your primary residence, as far as the gov is concerned, is wherever that someone lives. If you are independent, then it's wherever you live.
April 16, 200916 yr Personally I think that Cleveland's population will be higher mostly because I think they screwed up the original counting and maybe not because of actual gains. Every city that challenged the census had their population increased substantially. Im sure many remember the headlines - It's a No. 1 ranking Cincinnati doesn't want. U.S. census figures released today show that the city last year suffered the fastest population decline among the nation's 245 cities with at least 100,000 people. Cincinnati's July 2003 population of 317,361 represented a drop of 1.5 percent, or about 4,800 people, from 2002. -taken from june 06' http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060621/NEWS01/606210361 Cincinnati went from the fastest declining city in the US to having a population gain simply by challenging the census and getting the accurate figures and I think the same will hold true if they properly count the cities population this time.
April 16, 200916 yr ... Cincinnati went from the fastest declining city in the US to having a population gain simply by challenging the census ... That's far from the truth.
April 16, 200916 yr whats far from the truth? Im just saying if they would have not challenged the results then they would have not gotten the accurate figures, like in the case of many cities, and still be regarded as the fastest shrinking. I'm just expressing how challenging the census corrected the figures and changed the perception almost overnight.
April 16, 200916 yr whats far from the truth? Im just saying if they would have not challenged the results then they would have not gotten the accurate figures, like in the case of many cities, and still be regarded as the fastest shrinking. I'm just expressing how challenging the census corrected the figures and changed the perception almost overnight. Not challenging the census, but successfully challenging the census. ... It was the horrible rankings and embarrassing publicity that kicked our city leaders in the ass. We're experiencing an upswing that is a few years in the making. Far from "overnight" as you put it.
April 17, 200916 yr I'm just wondering why some cities did not challenge the results. Every city that petitioned for a challenge got an increase of at least 5% of their city population estimates. I just hope the census is more accurate this time and cities do not have to go through all the hassle to get the right estimates from the get go. What I meant by changing the perception overnight, is that going from one year's estimate of being labeled the fastest shrinking city, similar to what Cleveland is being labeled now, to one that has actually gained is a big turnaround in a years time. Cleveland always gets hammered on the population loss in irrelevant articles everywhere, which was what Cincy was putting up with for a while, yet we did nothing about it and it continues to get ridiculed on this issue, even though it most likely is not true. I was only trying to show an example of how big of a change a challenge can make. If Cincy decided to do nothing about it, the media would still be harping on it and the population numbers would still be inaccurate.
April 17, 200916 yr I'm sure changes such as this: http://www.clevelandfed.org/Research/data/regional/charts/chart7.cfm?state1=6&state2=7&state3=8&state4=24&selectUS=&startDate=01/01/2000&endDate=03/14/2009&datatype=1&subdataId=0 have a lot to do with it.
April 17, 200916 yr ^As much as I love this city, the declining population is apparent. As we sprawl out further, more and more of the city will empty out with no one to replenish the diminished population as our population growth is stagnant, at best. Part of the City of Cleveland's problem is that we have not had a population moving in to the region to help revitalize neighborhoods; partially explaining how even Fairfax, with the big gorilla in its backyard, has had very little redevelopment (without taking into account the social issues of the neighborhood). Even if Cleveland were to challenge the 2000 census (or the future 2010 census), that does not change the problems of our declining region. We truly need a change in mindset towards this city, along with new leadership and greater business innovation and retention. We don't need to ignore reality.
April 17, 200916 yr Im not saying it will change the underlying problem of the city, just the perception of the city. How many people look at those baseless lists and judge a city entirely by them? It doesn't help when u read the news and Cleveland is mentioned with the ranks of Katrina for population loss. How do you get people to have enthusiasm for a place when you have these negatives which aren't necessarily true or exaggerated. Who is to say the population gains in Cincy, Toledo, Detroit are real "gains". Just because a Census underestimates your population drastically one year and then raises the estimates the next year that is not a real gain. If Cleveland had 450k in the 2010 census it doesn't mean we "gained" in population. Also that chart of the employment situation is not a direct correlation to population, if it was then Cincy would be at the same levels as the year 2000 so I'm not sure where that was going.
April 17, 200916 yr Anyway on a different note.. Hispanic groups call for Census boycott By Haya El Nasser, USA TODAY Some Hispanic advocacy groups are calling for illegal immigrants to boycott the 2010 Census unless immigration laws are changed. The move puts them at odds with leading immigrant rights advocates and creates another hurdle in the Census Bureau's quest to count everyone in the USA. The National Coalition of Latino Clergy & Christian Leaders, a group that says it represents 20,000 evangelical churches in 34 states, issued a statement this week urging undocumented immigrants not to fill out Census forms unless Congress passes "genuine immigration reform." For more, click the link www.usatoday.com/news/ http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/census/2009-04-15-census_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip
April 17, 200916 yr They're only hurting themselves. Well, and those around them who rely on that funding, I guess. Dumb to punish one's locality for the Fed's policies, though. Very, very dumb.
April 17, 200916 yr They're only hurting themselves. Well, and those around them who rely on that funding, I guess. Dumb to punish one's locality for the Fed's policies, though. Very, very dumb. I know this is going to sound as crazy as those pendejos, but I say let them boycott. Cities with large hispanic populations will be hurt the most. S. Florida, Houston, Dallas, Austin, Phoenix, LA, San Diego & Vegas. I would say half don't trust the government but want to live here. More money for us in Ohio.
April 17, 200916 yr They're only hurting themselves. Well, and those around them who rely on that funding, I guess. Dumb to punish one's locality for the Fed's policies, though. Very, very dumb. I know this is going to sound as crazy as those pendejos, but I say let them boycott. Cities with large hispanic populations will be hurt the most. S. Florida, Houston, Dallas, Austin, Phoenix, LA, San Diego & Vegas. I would say half don't trust the government but want to live here. More money for us in Ohio. Are you forsaking your latino roots? They'll be calling you a pendejo. :-)
April 17, 200916 yr I would not be surprised to see a big push to count college students at their campi rather than their (parents') homes. Here's why: this would increase the reported population of college towns, giving them more electoral impact. Since undergrads typically vote absentee at home (if at all), this will give the votes of professors and grad students (usually liberal), more weight. I'd also expect to see some gaming involving foreclosures, with people counted both at their old homes (since vacated) and where they are currently living, and the homeless population greatly exaggerated. Perhaps even some manipulation involving graveyards, a Chicago Machine tradition. Illegal immigrants should not be counted....period.
April 17, 200916 yr They're only hurting themselves. Well, and those around them who rely on that funding, I guess. Dumb to punish one's locality for the Fed's policies, though. Very, very dumb. I know this is going to sound as crazy as those pendejos, but I say let them boycott. Cities with large hispanic populations will be hurt the most. S. Florida, Houston, Dallas, Austin, Phoenix, LA, San Diego & Vegas. I would say half don't trust the government but want to live here. More money for us in Ohio. Are you forsaking your latino roots? They'll be calling you a pendejo. :-) I'm PR, we're AMERICANS unlike those raft riders and border jumpers!
April 17, 200916 yr It's not just college towns that like to have college student counted at school. Cities argue that they should count because they use local resources at a rather high rate that should be reflected in the population of city and the battle for resources. Nearly every city in Ohio would benefit quite a bit from having college students count. It is more clear cut off campus.
April 17, 200916 yr Who is to say the population gains in Cincy, Toledo, Detroit are real "gains". Personally, I don't think the losses were accurate (not so much "gains"). I think the number of articles written regarding the Census and the lack of understanding with hi-tech devices used for counting backs this statement up. Also that chart of the employment situation is not a direct correlation to population... I'm not saying you are, this is why I'm clarifying, but are you saying employment doesn't have a direct impact on a city's population?
April 17, 200916 yr campi Campi. Smooth. I agree about counting illegal immigrants, but only because doing so would undoubtably help the sun belt at the expense of the rust belt. Students should be counted at their campi because that's where they live, and we're still trying to teach them basic civics among other things.
April 18, 200916 yr Students who live on-campus are counted there, unless the rules have changed since the 2000 census. http://www.census.gov/population/www/censusdata/resid_rules.html#Students
April 18, 200916 yr Boycotting a census is about as stupid as you can get. I agree, it only hurts ones own community. Another case of cutting off the nose to spite the face. Sometimes minority "leaders" seem to be the worst enemies of the very people they espouse to help. God only knows how many people actually live anywhere, with so many illegal apartments, etc. The house next to my sister in Columbus has at least 15 people living in it. I can guarantee that they will not participate in the census.
April 18, 200916 yr Is "campi" a word? If not, I make the 1st motion to approve it. Anyone want so Second it?
April 18, 200916 yr Considering the fact that both Obama and his Chief of Staff are products of one of the most corrupt political entities in US History, W's white house? perhaps GOP suspicions are justifiable. The GOP is suspicious anytime minorities have representation.
April 18, 200916 yr Considering the fact that both Obama and his Chief of Staff are products of one of the most corrupt political entities in US History, W's white house? No. Chicago. perhaps GOP suspicions are justifiable. The GOP is suspicious anytime minorities have representation. Talk about broad, sweeping generalizations....
April 20, 200916 yr No. Chicago. Your description was that of W's White House. Talk about broad, sweeping generalizations.... Or talk about broad, sweeping political party platforms.... like the Southern Strategy.
May 7, 200916 yr Good news!! http://cleveland.cox.net/cci/newslocal/local?_mode=view&view=LocalNewsArticleView&articleId=3960457&_action=validatearticle Ten Best Cities For Recent College Grads List Released, Including Cleveland 05-06-2009 4:13 AM (Undated) -- With tens of thousands of newly minted college graduates about to be released upon the world, the timing of a new ten best list couldn't be more perfect. CareerBuilder.com and Apartments.com have teamed up to build a list of Ten Best Cities For Recent College Graduates and Cleveland is on the list. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 7, 200916 yr Hell yeah! Go Cincinnati and Cleveland! I'm sure our housing prices really helped out for this list.
May 8, 200916 yr I would prefer that other law school graduates stayed away for a little while... market... not... good
May 8, 200916 yr Good news!! http://cleveland.cox.net/cci/newslocal/local?_mode=view&view=LocalNewsArticleView&articleId=3960457&_action=validatearticle Ten Best Cities For Recent College Grads List Released, Including Cleveland 05-06-2009 4:13 AM (Undated) -- With tens of thousands of newly minted college graduates about to be released upon the world, the timing of a new ten best list couldn't be more perfect. CareerBuilder.com and Apartments.com have teamed up to build a list of Ten Best Cities For Recent College Graduates and Cleveland is on the list. Great news! We need more positive stories like this one about the city. Perception, to those who don't know an area, is 9/10ths of reality.
May 8, 200916 yr Good news!! http://cleveland.cox.net/cci/newslocal/local?_mode=view&view=LocalNewsArticleView&articleId=3960457&_action=validatearticle Ten Best Cities For Recent College Grads List Released, Including Cleveland 05-06-2009 4:13 AM (Undated) -- With tens of thousands of newly minted college graduates about to be released upon the world, the timing of a new ten best list couldn't be more perfect. CareerBuilder.com and Apartments.com have teamed up to build a list of Ten Best Cities For Recent College Graduates and Cleveland is on the list. Great news! We need more positive stories like this one about the city. Perception, to those who don't know an area, is 9/10ths of reality. As with Forbes (and their negative polls) what methodology or credible research did they do? Who compiled and who is the source for this information. There isn't even a source for this information. Note: Disclaimer: the news stories on Cox.net are the work of leading news organizations whose services are purchased to populate Cox.net with news as a service to our customers. Views and opinions presented in the news are not necessarily the views of Cox Communications. Just because this is a favorable poll, we cant just say "gee a good one" and let it slide. I do not find this any more credible than a Forbes poll!
May 8, 200916 yr As with Forbes (and their negative polls) what methodology or credible research did they do? Who compiled and who is the source for this information. There isn't even a source for this information. Just because this is a favorable poll, we cant just say "gee a good one" and let it slide. I do not find this any more credible than a Forbes poll! I agree. It's funny how all of a sudden a POSITIVE poll comes along, and, wow! They're credible because they said something positive!
May 8, 200916 yr Agreed about the credibility. These lists are inherently subjective and unscientific, but it is nice to see a positive headline every once in a while.
May 8, 200916 yr Ditto, while I agree the credibility is possibly as questionable as a Forbes list, it is nice to have low credibility polls that shed a favorable light on Cleveland to counteract the ones that do the opposite since many people do buy into these things as being truth.
May 8, 200916 yr Good news!! http://cleveland.cox.net/cci/newslocal/local?_mode=view&view=LocalNewsArticleView&articleId=3960457&_action=validatearticle Ten Best Cities For Recent College Grads List Released, Including Cleveland 05-06-2009 4:13 AM (Undated) -- With tens of thousands of newly minted college graduates about to be released upon the world, the timing of a new ten best list couldn't be more perfect. CareerBuilder.com and Apartments.com have teamed up to build a list of Ten Best Cities For Recent College Graduates and Cleveland is on the list. . Great news! We need more positive stories like this one about the city. Perception, to those who don't know an area, is 9/10ths of reality. I agree with Oldmanladyluck. I remember a PD article a few months ago stating that employer's are having trouble finding young professionals to hire from the area. I'll try to find link from where I read about it. edit: http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/08/proposal_pledge_to_live_in_ohi.html
May 9, 200916 yr This cracked me up. Philly was reporting on the "top cities" for new college graduates...and the Philly station kept the Cleveland Skyline in the backround for the entire piece: http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/real_deal/050609_Best_Cities_For_New_College_Grads Very subtle, but still mad me smile.
August 17, 200915 yr Ranked using 2008 estimates: 1. Columbus 754,885 (increase) 2. Cleveland 433,748 (decrease) 3. Cincinnati 333,336 (increase) 4. Toledo 316,722 (decrease) 5. Akron 207,510 (decrease) 6. Dayton 154,200 (decrease) 7. Canton 78,362 (decrease) 8. Parma 77,947 (decrease) 9. Youngstown 72,925 (decrease) 10. Lorain 70,239 (increase) 11. Hamilton 62,477 (increase) 12. Springfield 62,269 (increase) 13. Elyria 54,979 (decrease) 14. Kettering 53,708 (decrease) 15. Mentor 51,825 (increase) 16. Middletown 51,422 (increase) 17. Cuyahoga Falls 51,090 (increase) 17. Lakewood 50,704 (decrease)
August 17, 200915 yr Lakewood, Elyria, Euclid, Mansfield all dropped under 50,000? What about Cleveland Hts. and S. Euclid? I find it interesting that Cbus and Cincy added. I've said it for years, my gut tells me there are more residents in Cleveland and surrounding cities than is being reported. I've written and called my council person, the mayor, PLJ and several people in political places to ask for an inquiry of the census.
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