^Hell while we are at it lets add Lexington to the mix. It's 80+ miles down the road.

Might as well, would make about as much sense as Springfield.

I can't believe you are questioning that. I guess it's all rural to get from Cincy to Springfield.

I don't know why Wash PA is mentioned, it's not a separate core, or a CSA county. Washington county has spillover 'burbs from Allegheny county and there is a corridor down to the town of Washington along 79.

 

Lawrence County, with New Castle is however a CSA county and has a little more distance, but its inclusion i think must statistically meet the Census standard, but I can't imagine significantly.

 

It was mentioned as an adjacent urbanized county to a larger county. 

 

Cleveland-Akron-Canton. MSA: 3,184,862 CSA: 3,286,359

 

Cincinnati-Dayton-Springfield. MSA: 3,109,986 CSA: 3,245,082

 

 

While I feel that Akron should have never been separated from Cleveland, given the close proximity, it seems awkward having Canton included. And I just dont see Dayton as close enough to Cincy to add up, let alone having Springfield in the mix. Hell, why not add Columbus?

 

Dayton and Springfield are one in the same, like Pittsburgh and WashPA.  So if Dayton does get merged with Cincinnati, so does Springfield by default.  And really, I always thought of Akron-Canton being more close than Cleveland-Akron but who knows.

Cincinnati to Dayton: 54 miles

Dayton to Springfield: 26 miles

Cincinnati to Springfield: 81 miles

 

Columbus to Springfield: 46 miles

 

Pittsburgh to Washington, PA: 25 miles

 

Cleveland to Akron: 39 miles

Akron to Canton: 23 miles

Cleveland to Canton: 60 miles

 

So, you're agreeing with me?  Never thought I'd see THAT day happen on this forum!  Akron is close to Canton; Dayton is close to Springfield; Pittsburgh is close to WashPA.  Meanwhile, Cincinnati to Springfield and Cleveland to Canton are hour drives.  Glad that's settled!

Yes, you read my mind..  And Cleveland to Sandusky/Norwalk (62 miles), Mansfield (81 miles) and Youngstown (74 miles) are shorter (or the same) drives than Cincinnati to Springfield.  Should Cleveland claim them in their CSA?  While we're at it, how about Port Clinton, Fremont, Bellevue?  All about the same distance as Cincinnati to Springfield?

 

Where's the *beating a dead horse* thing at, CBC?

^ Sorry I was out of town....

 

Or the "Get Back On Topic" post that I so often get? :)

I wish!  Then I'd have 8 Titles!

But for old times sakes!

 

Out of curiosity I checked my current census tract in NY against the one from my old neighborhood in Painesville, and the latter actually seems more diverse, except for the absence of an Asian population. How ironic is that? It’s all those damn white yuppies taking over the East Village! lol Although I am starting to question the new overall total for Painesville, which reflects nearly 12% growth, since none of the census tracts show anywhere near that rate (the highest I could see was +6.6%) As a matter of fact, my old one showed a 0.4% decline. hmmmm...another census scandal in the making. Has anyone else discovered a similar discrepancy? Or maybe I'm somehow misreading the results.

 

Tract 2042, Painesville

47% white

18% black

30% hispanic

4% multiracial

 

Tract 32, E. Village

69% white

3% black

10% hispanic

15% asian

2% multiracial

 

 

 

 

Just realized you can also see things such as density, racial/ethnic groups, and vacant houses on this map.

 

http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/map?hp

 

On the left where it says "view more maps" is how you change it.

Not sure if this is the right thread for this, mods, feel free to move if not.

 

Cleveland and Cincinnati are both on this list:

 

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/03/29/most_segregated_cities

 

And so is NYC, Chicago, LA, Philly....

 

Point being, I don't think racial prejudices are driving this statistical breakdown.  Clevleand definitely does have a center of the black population, dilutting out into the suburbs.  But one thing my Stepmom (from Charlotte) was always amazed at whenever she came and visited is how diverse our streets can be.  Mine, for instance, is probably 30-40 percent black.  The one I grew up on as a kid, was more like 50/50 (probably a few more black families than whites and we might have been the only white non-catholic family on the entire block).  She always said you just won't find small residential streets (or even neighborhoods) in Charlotte like that.  Yet Charlotte is not on this list. 

Not sure if this is the right thread for this, mods, feel free to move if not.

 

Cleveland and Cincinnati are both on this list:

 

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/03/29/most_segregated_cities

 

 

I take it Salon does not like John Kasich:

 

Which brings us back to Over-the-Rhine, where many displaced blacks moved in the 1960s. In 2001, the neighborhood was the epicenter of major riots that exploded after the police killing of an unarmed black teenager. The neighborhood is now gentrifying. Meanwhile, the region's segregation remains intact and the matter is not considered a priority for newly inaugurated Republican Gov. John Kasich.

 

"Right now, we've got a pretty reactionary governor," says Stradling. "And he's not interested in the urban core. There are a lot of places growing in Ohio, but the problem is how they grow at the expense of other parts of Ohio. I see years of expanded highway spending, and not spending in the urban core."

^Well pretty much on point as far as Kasich is concerned.  I have pretty much come to the conclusion that for the next for years Cleveland is going to have to ignore the state of Ohio and go at it on its own in terms of urban of development and positive urban policy.  This of course makes a tough job even tougher but we cannot cry over spilled milk. 

It's not just Cleveland.  EVERY city has to ignore the state of Ohio, especially Cincinnati (streetcar anyone?).

Speaking of race, it seems Englewood is the "new Trotwood", for those of you familiar with Dayton suburban geography.

I had a roomate in college from Trotwood (before the horseless carriage was invented).  Please explain.

He means black folks moving to 1960's white suburbia in droves as Trotwood has "gone down hill" in the view of suburban Daytonians.

Yep. 18% black.  What's the local white flight tipping point?

 

Though one could say "the Dayton Mall is the new Salem Mall", based on that RTA controversy. 

 

>cue Foghorn Leghorn accent<  "Ah say,  Ah, say, son, Too many coloreds wandering about.  Don't feel safe." 

 

@@@

 

But it does look like the census tract south of the Mall (Say, "Villages of Miami") is becoming more, ahem, diverse? No?

I've notice MANY more Latinos moving in, which is a great thing.

27 percent of Ohioans live within 10 miles of Lake Erie or the Ohio River: Sunday's Numbers

 

3.1 million: Number of Ohioans living within 10 miles of either Lake Erie or the Ohio River, demonstrating the economic and population draw of key waterways.

 

 

27 percent: Share of Ohio's population living within 10 miles of Lake Erie or the Ohio River.

 

 

2 million: Number of Ohioans living within 10 miles of Lake Erie.

 

 

300,000: Number of Ohioans living within 1 mile of Lake Erie.

 

 

1.1 million: Number of Ohioans living within 10 miles of the Ohio River.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2011/04/27_percent_of_ohioans_live_wit.html

Asians, Hispanics populate latest wave of Northeast Ohio's newcomers

Published: Monday, April 04, 2011, 5:55 AM    Updated: Monday, April 04, 2011, 10:54 AM

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/04/asians_hispanics_populate_late.html

Good article. Encouraging the region is picking up more Hispanics and Asians. It's also nice to see Hispanics from Central and South America moving here.  I like this quote from the end..."In Cleveland, he said, he never felt locked into an ethnic stereotype. Cleveland's not like New Jersey, with a bazillion Hispanics...There's not a traditional Hispanic here. You can, like, go and be an engineer."

This map by the New York times is incredible.

 

http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/map

Oh yeah, I've been wasting an incredible amount of time staring at that map.

I do believe our very own XUMelanie was interviewed for the Cincinnati Enquirer article about the census. Of course, I wish that she'd stayed in PR, but I'm glad she could be one of the ones to help increase the population downtown.

Just realized you can also see things such as density, racial/ethnic groups, and vacant houses on this map.

 

http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/map?hp

 

On the left where it says "view more maps" is how you change it.

 

It also shows same-sex couple households, but I won't say which city is far ahead of the rest of Ohio, except that it rhymes with the last name of a famous Italian explorer (hint: his first name is Christopher).

Where do you see that?

I just wanted to bump this link that was posted several months back in this thread:

 

http://www.forbes.com/2010/06/04/migration-moving-wealthy-interactive-counties-map.html

 

This data is just for 2008 and shows how fluid the population really is. In just ONE YEAR, over 10 million americans moved into a different county. When you compound that over 10 years, you can really see how quickly populations shift.

 

This nifty little tool also shows how many 1,000s of people each year move INTO overall declining population counties such as Cuyahoga. When you click on Cuyahoga County you see a sea of red lines, but if you read the information, the numbers are somewhat encouraging.

 

Take for example Atlanta, 220 people left Cuyahoga County in 2008 for Fulton County, but 82 people actually moved to Cuyahoga County from Atlanta in 2008.

 

There were 113 people who moved from Miami-Dade to Cuyahoga in 2008.

 

What's truly impressive is the yearly cross flow of people moving between Franklin and Cuyahoga County. While yes, the pull into central Ohio comes mainly from the north, it cannot be ignored that 919 people in 2008 alone moved from Franklin County to Cuyahoga County. It should also be pointed out that while Franklin County picked up more than it lost, the per capita income of those moving into Cuyahoga County WERE HIGHER than those who left.

 

So why is all of this important? Despite the overall population loss in Cuyahoga County, EACH YEAR, 1000s of NEW people move into the county from another county. This bodes well for urban revitalization. We know lots of people are moving in, and in many instances are replacing lower income people who are moving south. The question is how can we get the new residents to choose to relocate in the urban core?

\

 

Take for example Atlanta, 220 people left Cuyahoga County in 2008 for Fulton County, but 82 people actually moved to Cuyahoga County from Atlanta in 2008.

 

There were 113 people who moved from Miami-Dade to Cuyahoga in 2008.

 

 

The income figures for these moves, as well as most large urban counties show the outbound per capita incomes being replaced by much lower per capita incomes.  I would attribute this to immigrant migration. 

 

The figures you noted for Franklin to Cuyahoga are much closer in number. 

 

Great map -very interesting!

 

 

A positive story from Cleveland Scene -- in itself a shocker!

 

"The number of college-educated young professionals who moved into the city rose by 49 percent since 2000, according to a recent crunch of the numbers. This means we beat out such allegedly desirable locales as Boston, Chicago, Columbus, and Cincinnati."

 

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2011/04/12/young-people-love-clevelands-grit-and-funk-or-something

Not to be a wet blanket, but I think Scene is just picking up the stuff reported by this USAToday article (which was brought up in another thread): http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-04-01-1Ayoungrestless01_ST_N.htm

 

It's certainly good news locally, but it's only looking within 3 miles of the CBD, and Cleveland benefited from having a very tiny denominator when calculating that percentage increase.  Of the 17 many cities that are listed in the piece, only Hartford, Birmingham, AL and Buffalo a few had a smaller increase in absolute terms than Cleveland.  [uPDATED.  I didn't notice that the list had a scroll bar at first.]

Where do you see that?

 

I'm pretty sure he's wrong.  I didn't see anything about same sex couples on that map.  Also, there is no city in Ohio that rhymes with Columbus.

I'm guessing he was referring to similar maps the NYTimes made using the USCB's 2005-2009 ACS data: http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/explorer?ref=us

Not to be a wet blanket, but I think Scene is just picking up the stuff reported by this USAToday article (which was brought up in another thread): http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-04-01-1Ayoungrestless01_ST_N.htm

 

It's certainly good news locally, but it's only looking within 3 miles of the CBD, and Cleveland benefited from having a very tiny denominator when calculating that percentage increase.  Of the 17 many cities that are listed in the piece, only Hartford, Birmingham, AL and Buffalo a few had a smaller increase in absolute terms than Cleveland.  [uPDATED.  I didn't notice that the list had a scroll bar at first.]

 

Not to mention that the percentages do not address the whole story.  Columbus gained 3x-4x as many YP's than Cleveland, yet ended up with a slightly lower percentage. 

Not to be a wet blanket, but I think Scene is just picking up the stuff reported by this USAToday article (which was brought up in another thread): http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-04-01-1Ayoungrestless01_ST_N.htm

 

It's certainly good news locally, but it's only looking within 3 miles of the CBD, and Cleveland benefited from having a very tiny denominator when calculating that percentage increase.  Of the 17 many cities that are listed in the piece, only Hartford, Birmingham, AL and Buffalo a few had a smaller increase in absolute terms than Cleveland.  [uPDATED.  I didn't notice that the list had a scroll bar at first.]

 

Not to mention that the percentages do not adress the whole store.  Columbus gained 3x-4x as many YP's than Cleveland, yet ended up with a slightly lower percentage. 

 

All this underscores my argument for Division I football at Cleveland State to build a residential campus environment.  Give 30,000 kids a reason to live downtown through their four years of college and a good percentage will stay after graduation (assuming there are some jobs for them)

 

Columbus is a perfect example of that process at work.

 

Go Vikings! 

They were looking at a radius of 3 miles from the center of the city.  I don't think anyone considers areas anywhere near 3 miles to still be downtown, so the stats are very misleading.  For example, 3 miles from the center of Columbus includes the entirety of OSU's campus, but that's clearly not downtown.  (For comparison to Cleveland 3 miles east doesn't even stretch to E. 79th, so University Circle was not included in these stats.)  It would be interesting to see what the stats were like for actual downtown areas.

^Yeah, I think X already rightfully panned the 3 mile thing as being pretty arbitrary for these purposes.  Though I'd argue not totally meaningless for others.  I'd guess that retail is going to be a struggle in downtown Cleveland for a while because there is so little disposal income within walking distance or even easy biking/quick transit trip distance compared to most metros.  The river valley, lake and industrial areas ringing our downtown are a statistical disadvantage but a real geographic impediment too.

 

Neither here nor there, but it totally trips me out that this within 3 miles of the Ohio Statehouse: http://bit.ly/gq2xOe  As opposed to Cleveland's post-industrial re-ruralification, this just look straight-out pre-urban.  Maybe because of the annexation history of Columbus? 

I'd guess that retail is going to be a struggle in downtown Cleveland for a while because there is so little disposal income within walking distance or even easy biking/quick transit trip distance compared to most metros. 

 

Shaker Heights has no disposable income?  West Park?  Clifton?  These places all have a 15 minute express transit ride downtown. 

^Draw any size ring around public square between 0 and 10 6 miles and I will be shocked if it captures more disposable income than the analogous area of any similarly sized metro area in the country or larger (except Detroit).  This isn't a new insight, but downtown is the most convenient shopping area for very few people with money to spend.  Which means we're probably more likely to see a Nobu than a new hardware store downtown.

 

[Edit: 10 miles actually gets you pretty deep into the burbs, so I'm less confident about that claim.  In any case, our geographic distribution of wealth with respect to downtown seems particularly bad.]

^Yeah, I think X already rightfully panned the 3 mile thing as being pretty arbitrary for these purposes.  Though I'd argue not totally meaningless for others.  I'd guess that retail is going to be a struggle in downtown Cleveland for a while because there is so little disposal income within walking distance or even easy biking/quick transit trip distance compared to most metros.  The river valley, lake and industrial areas ringing our downtown are a statistical disadvantage but a real geographic impediment too.

 

Neither here nor there, but it totally trips me out that this within 3 miles of the Ohio Statehouse: http://bit.ly/gq2xOe  As opposed to Cleveland's post-industrial re-ruralification, this just look straight-out pre-urban.  Maybe because of the annexation history of Columbus? 

 

Watershed/light-industry issues in Franklinton.  Partly annexation history, partly undesirable area south of the city where most (if not all) of the pollution is.  Think of it as Columbus' "Duck Island/Industrial Valley"...minus the valley.

But back to the topic at hand...

 

Some 3C's Ohio Ethnic numbers for 2010:

 

Cleveland-Akron-Elyria, OH CSA

White alone: 2,217,846

Black or African American alone: 504,921

American Indian and Alaska Native alone: 5,608

Asian alone: 55,087

Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone: 593

Some Other Race alone: 39,325

Two or More Races: 58,557

Hispanic or Latino (of any race): 112,307

Total: 2,881,937

 

Cincinnati-Middletown-Wilmington, OH-KY-IN CSA

White alone: 1,806,250

Black or African American alone: 256,837

American Indian and Alaska Native alone: 4,201

Asian alone: 40,635

Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone: 1,414

Some Other Race alone: 22,689

Two or More Races: 40,165

Hispanic or Latino (of any race): 55,679

Total: 2,172,191

 

Columbus-Marion-Chillicothe, OH CSA

White alone: 1,641,400

Black or African American alone: 283,289

American Indian and Alaska Native alone: 4,787

Asian alone: 58,416

Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone: 994

Some Other Race alone: 31,739

Two or More Races: 50,427

Hispanic or Latino (of any race): 69,968

Total: 2,071,052

I would not have guessed that Cle CSA has the highest latino pop.  Ohio REALLY is not popular with that demographic.  I wonder why that is.

Jobs, jobs, oh, and jobs.

I would not have guessed that Cle CSA has the highest latino pop.  Ohio REALLY is not popular with that demographic.  I wonder why that is.

The highest Latino pop makes sense when you think about the sizable PR communities in both Elyria/Lorain and Painesville, in addition to the westside. I would be curious to see what percent of our Latino population is PR compared to the other cities.

I'm sure we can all assume that Ohio's largest Puerto Rican & Domincan groups are in Cleveland and largest Mexican group is in Columbus.

Jobs, jobs, oh, and jobs.

 

I'm sure that is a factor, but that is not the only factor.  Other states, with worse or comparable economies, have much higher latino populations and those populations are growing at a faster rate.

http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/explorer?ref=us

 

Go to the Hispanic Map and you can see why Cleveland has the most, and why Cincinnati has the least.

What am I supposed to be seeing in that map?  I get that it answer the question of who has more..... but not "why"

Was wondering the same thing...

I'm sure we can all assume that Ohio's largest Puerto Rican & Domincan groups are in Cleveland and largest Mexican group is in Columbus.

 

Easily. I just wondering if the Non-PR portion was growing at the same pace as the other Ohio cities.

 

Huge displaced low(er)-skilled workforce in the state would be my guess. Lots of guys already willing to roof and hang sheet rock up.