What am I supposed to be seeing in that map?  I get that it answer the question of who has more..... but not "why"

 

Oh, you said you wouldnt have guessed it, and I was showing that we have several areas with large Hispanic populations unlike Columbus and Cincinnati, and thats why we have the most. Why we have those areas, I have no clue.

The highest Latino pop makes sense when you think about the sizable PR communities in both Elyria/Lorain and Painesville, in addition to the westside. I would be curious to see what percent of our Latino population is PR compared to the other cities.

 

I know the PR community is the most sizable group of Hispanics in Cleveland, but I'm pretty sure the majority of the Hispanics in Painesville are Mexican.  I don't know too much about Lorain, but I thought it was heavily Mexican as well.  And I'm pretty sure the Hispanic community in Elyria is not very big.

Im surprised Columbus has more blacks than Cincinnati. I always thought Cincy had more, but maybe I was mentally referencing data from the 2000 Census.

The highest Latino pop makes sense when you think about the sizable PR communities in both Elyria/Lorain and Painesville, in addition to the westside. I would be curious to see what percent of our Latino population is PR compared to the other cities.

 

I know the PR community is the most sizable group of Hispanics in Cleveland, but I'm pretty sure the majority of the Hispanics in Painesville are Mexican.  I don't know too much about Lorain, but I thought it was heavily Mexican as well.  And I'm pretty sure the Hispanic community in Elyria is not very big.

 

Lorain is primarily PR, though mixed of course.

^Right.  I believe the PR population in Lorain is from earlier waves coming for steel/manufacturing jobs while the Lake County Hispanic population is mostly more recently arrived Mexican attracted by agricultural/greenhouse work. 

Strap, you are exactly right.

My bad on Painesville.

 

^^Ditto on Lorain. I worked at the old Ford van plant in Lorain for a year, and there were definately a lot of PR and Latino UAW members there. Maybe 10-15% of the workforce at the time.

The highest Latino pop makes sense when you think about the sizable PR communities in both Elyria/Lorain and Painesville, in addition to the westside. I would be curious to see what percent of our Latino population is PR compared to the other cities.

 

I know the PR community is the most sizable group of Hispanics in Cleveland, but I'm pretty sure the majority of the Hispanics in Painesville are Mexican.  I don't know too much about Lorain, but I thought it was heavily Mexican as well.  And I'm pretty sure the Hispanic community in Elyria is not very big.

Mexicans? In Painesville?? Impossible!

The Hispanic population in Elyria is quite big, at least compared to most places in NEO.

The highest Latino pop makes sense when you think about the sizable PR communities in both Elyria/Lorain and Painesville, in addition to the westside. I would be curious to see what percent of our Latino population is PR compared to the other cities.

 

I know the PR community is the most sizable group of Hispanics in Cleveland, but I'm pretty sure the majority of the Hispanics in Painesville are Mexican.  I don't know too much about Lorain, but I thought it was heavily Mexican as well.  And I'm pretty sure the Hispanic community in Elyria is not very big.

Mexicans? In Painesville?? Impossible!

 

Everyone loves a Polka!

The Hispanic population in Elyria is quite big, at least compared to most places in NEO.

 

Wikipedia put it at about 2%.  Lorain is like 17% and Painesville 12% I believe.  Although, Elyria is much bigger than Painesville so the raw numbers of Hispanics may be close.

^Wiki still reports the 2000 census numbers.  2010 census numbers show about 5% of Elyria as Hispanic, so growing, but yeah, still well below Lorain (about 25% now) and Painesville (22%).

^Wiki still reports the 2000 census numbers.  2010 census numbers show about 5% of Elyria as Hispanic, so growing, but yeah, still well below Lorain (about 25% now) and Painesville (22%).

you beat me! well sort of :wink:.

Though Elyria is much bigger than Painesville (by more than 2.5X), the “raw numbers" aren’t even close. The 2010 Hispanic population:

Elyria          2,649 --  4.9%

Painesville  4,298 –  22.0%

Lorain      16,177 –  25.2%

 

Census Shows Cleveland-Akron Remains Major U.S. Urban Area, Despite Losses

 

Published: Sunday, May 29, 2011, 5:25 AM    Updated: Sunday, May 29, 2011, 5:55 AM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Much concern has been raised -- with much reason -- over Cleveland's dramatic drop in population and, to a lesser extent, the lack of growth regionally.

 

But census 2010 numbers released this year also reveal another fact: despite the losses, the Greater Cleveland-Akron urban area remains a major market that can serve as a significant regional center.

 

...

 

See http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2011/05/census_shows_cleveland-akron_r.html

I read that last night.

 

This comment got me thinking. WTF

 

"The population of the city of Atlanta is 540,000. The metro area, as per above, has 5.6 million people. That's more than 10 times the population of the core. Atlanta is hardly suffering. The place has been growing by leaps and bounds over the past 30 years. The same can be said for Denver, Dallas, Houston, Charlotte, and Raleigh. None of these places are obsessed with making the downtown area the center of everything, the way idiot urban planners in Cleveland are. Plano and McKinney, TX have over 100,000 people. There are skyscrapers all over the Dallas and Houston area (not just downtown) and cranes building more dot the skyline. Denver has tons of major commercial areas in Boulder, Littleton, etc. Raleigh has downtown Raleigh, but also Durham, Cary, etc. Planners in these regions are focused on providing a region that is a good place to live, with low taxes and regulations, and a pro growth enivronment; as oppossed to obsessing over making the downtown area some type of unrealistic Shangri-la at the expense of the rest of the region."

Ouch.

Painesville is the fastest growing city between Cleveland and Niagara Falls

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/painesville-is-the-fastest-growing-city-between-cleveland-and-niagara-falls

 

By: Rich Geyser, newsnet5.com

 

PAINESVILLE, Ohio - The recent 2010 US Census revealed one of the fastest growing Ohio cities in our area is Painesville. It sits in the shadow of a nuclear power plant and its only hospital was closed and torn down.

 

Painesville does offer a small town feel with its many churches, historic buildings and open park areas. This Lake County city has been determined to be the fastest growing city between Cleveland and Niagara Falls.

 

 

 

Painesville's Hispanic community doubles in 10 years, multiplies 11 times since 1990

 

Published: Monday, October 24, 2011, 6:00 AM    Updated: Monday, October 24, 2011, 9:34 AM

 

By Regina Garcia Cano, The Plain Dealer 

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/10/painesvilles_hispanic_communit.html

 

PAINESVILLE, Ohio -- Just as the country's economy began to tank in 2007, Painesville resident Angela Flores opened her dream business: a hair salon. She didn't worry about the economic meltdown. She was convinced her business was depression- and recession-proof because it would cater to the city's Hispanic population.

 

The numbers bear Flores out. No city between Solon and Niagara Falls gained as many residents as Painesville in the last decade. The city's population grew 12 percent during that period, according to the 2010 U.S. Census. And in that time, its Hispanic community almost doubled.

I read that last night.

 

This comment got me thinking. WTF

 

"The population of the city of Atlanta is 540,000. The metro area, as per above, has 5.6 million people. That's more than 10 times the population of the core. Atlanta is hardly suffering. The place has been growing by leaps and bounds over the past 30 years. The same can be said for Denver, Dallas, Houston, Charlotte, and Raleigh. None of these places are obsessed with making the downtown area the center of everything, the way idiot urban planners in Cleveland are. Plano and McKinney, TX have over 100,000 people. There are skyscrapers all over the Dallas and Houston area (not just downtown) and cranes building more dot the skyline. Denver has tons of major commercial areas in Boulder, Littleton, etc. Raleigh has downtown Raleigh, but also Durham, Cary, etc. Planners in these regions are focused on providing a region that is a good place to live, with low taxes and regulations, and a pro growth enivronment; as oppossed to obsessing over making the downtown area some type of unrealistic Shangri-la at the expense of the rest of the region."

 

I just read this post despite that it was posted some time ago.  The other cities you mention above, with the possible exception of Denver never really were at the center.  CLE on the other hand was very muich the center of the City and to a degree still is.  For its size, downtown CLE is the 5th or 6th largest workforce population in the country with over 110,00 commuting downtown every day.  Abd ATL IS suffering.  Almost 11% unemplyment.  Overbuilt by some estimates in the 20-30 year range.  Alot of the jobs lost won;t be coming back to ATL & CLT.  Someon in another thread yesterday wrote that CLT is attempting to re-gear its economy toward the energy field and less on banking.  Seems that with the shale oil in CLE's backyard, CLE may beat them to it.  By the way, the population of CLEs metro is is aprox 3MM.  Thats also almost 10x the core city population.

Painesville's Hispanic community doubles in 10 years, multiplies 11 times since 1990

 

Published: Monday, October 24, 2011, 6:00 AM    Updated: Monday, October 24, 2011, 9:34 AM

 

By Regina Garcia Cano, The Plain Dealer 

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/10/painesvilles_hispanic_communit.html

 

PAINESVILLE, Ohio -- Just as the country's economy began to tank in 2007, Painesville resident Angela Flores opened her dream business: a hair salon. She didn't worry about the economic meltdown. She was convinced her business was depression- and recession-proof because it would cater to the city's Hispanic population.

 

The numbers bear Flores out. No city between Solon and Niagara Falls gained as many residents as Painesville in the last decade. The city's population grew 12 percent during that period, according to the 2010 U.S. Census. And in that time, its Hispanic community almost doubled.

 

The comments on cleveland.bomb make me sick to my stomach.  I wonder the ethnic/country backgrounds of some posters?!

http://www.cubitplanning.com/state/48-ohio?show=cities

 

This site might be old news.....

Painesville's Hispanic community doubles in 10 years, multiplies 11 times since 1990

 

Published: Monday, October 24, 2011, 6:00 AM    Updated: Monday, October 24, 2011, 9:34 AM

 

By Regina Garcia Cano, The Plain Dealer 

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/10/painesvilles_hispanic_communit.html

 

PAINESVILLE, Ohio -- Just as the country's economy began to tank in 2007, Painesville resident Angela Flores opened her dream business: a hair salon. She didn't worry about the economic meltdown. She was convinced her business was depression- and recession-proof because it would cater to the city's Hispanic population.

 

The numbers bear Flores out. No city between Solon and Niagara Falls gained as many residents as Painesville in the last decade. The city's population grew 12 percent during that period, according to the 2010 U.S. Census. And in that time, its Hispanic community almost doubled.

 

The comments on cleveland.bomb make me sick to my stomach.  I wonder the ethnic/country backgrounds of some posters?!

 

I guess they could have been worse. BTW, that councilman quoted in the article was a high school classmate of mine. Trust me, I could have never pictured him holding public office. Then again, it is a small town. lol

Link for quick facts.  Just type in a city/metro and get some quick results.

 

For example:

 

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=cincinnati+metro+area

 

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=cleveland+metro+area

 

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Columbus+metro+area

 

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=dayton+metro+area

 

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=akron+metro+area

 

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=toledo+metro+area

 

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=youngstown+metro+area

Has anyone seen or know of the estimated impact of each single person, in terms of Federal and State funding over 10 years?  I know that in 2000 the US Conference of Mayors was saying each person was worth $2263.  I also know that Lombard, IL said their 2010 Challenge would result in $1000 per person added.  Has anyone in Ohio looked into this question? 

 

What I'm getting at is--Dayton is getting +116, on the first of at least two challenges--which seems silly, until you think that was a $232,000 correction (at $2000/person).

Takes these as a grain of salt, but Dayton grew in it's MSA and CSA

 

MSA http://www.census.gov/popest/data/metro/totals/2011/tables/CBSA-EST2011-01.xls

 

CSA http://www.census.gov/popest/data/metro/totals/2011/tables/CBSA-EST2011-02.xls

 

Alrighty, so here they are for 2011!  On a personal note, I'm glad to see growth/stabilization in Greater Dayton (Montgomery County, MSA, & CSA) in that time period as we've been in a metropolitan decline for a decade. Red = Negative Growth; Green = Positive Growth

 

 

Ohio Census Population of the 15 Largest Counties: April 1, 2010 to July 1, 2011

 

-----County--------------2010-------2011------------

1. Cuyahoga County 1,278,000 1,270,294

2. Franklin County 1,165,789 1,178,799

3. Hamilton County 801,948 800,362

4. Summit County 541,487 539,832

5. Montgomery County 535,819 537,602

6. Lucas County 441,541 440,005

7. Stark County 375,394 375,087

8. Butler County 368,832 369,999

9. Lorain County 301,526 301,614

10. Mahoning County 238,310 237,270

11. Lake County 230,054 229,885

12. Warren County 213,271 214,910

13. Trumbull County 209,972 209,264

14. Clermont County 197,768 199,139

15. Delaware County 175,238 178,341

 

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

Ohio Census Population of Metropolitan Statistical Areas: April 1, 2010 to July 1, 2011

 

1. Cincinnati-Middletown, OH-KY-IN

2010: 2,132,415

2011: 2,138,038

Net: +5,623

 

2. Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor, OH

2010: 2,075,540

2011: 2,068,283

Net: -7,257

 

3. Columbus, OH

2010: 1,840,584

2011: 1,858,464

Net: +17,880

 

4. Dayton, OH

2010: 842,131

2011: 845,388

Net: +3,257

 

5. Akron, OH

2010: 702,868

2011: 701,456

Net: -1,412

 

6. Toledo, OH

2010: 651,150

2011: 650,266

Net: -884

 

7. Youngstown-Warren-Boardman, OH-PA

2010: 564,973

2011: 562,739

Net: -2,234

 

8. Canton-Massillon, OH

2010: 404,201

2011: 403,869

Net: -332

 

9. Huntington-Ashland, WV-KY-OH

2010: 287,736

2011: 287,599

Net: -137

 

10. Parkersburg-Marietta-Vienna, WV-OH

2010: 162,053

2011: 162,248

Net: +195

 

11. Wheeling, WV-OH

2010: 147,900

2011: 147,197

Net: -703

 

12. Springfield, OH

2010: 138,206

2011: 137,691

Net: -515

 

13. Mansfield, OH

2010: 124,263

2011: 123,510

Net: -753

 

14. Steubenville-Weirton, OH-WV

2010: 124,254

2011: 123,243

Net: -1,011

 

15. Lima, OH

2010: 106,239

2011: 106,094

Net: -145

 

16. Sandusky, OH

2010: 77,036

2011: 76,751

Net: -285

 

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

Ohio Census Population of Combined Statistical Areas: April 1, 2010 to July 1, 2011

 

1. Cleveland-Akron-Elyria, OH

2010: 2,879,875

2011: 2,871,084

Net: -8,791

 

2. Cincinnati-Middletown-Wilmington, OH-KY-IN

2010: 2,174,318

2011: 2,179,965

Net: +5,647

 

3. Columbus-Marion-Chillicothe, OH

2010: 2,075,270

2011: 2,093,185

Net: +17,915

 

4. Dayton-Springfield-Greenville, OH

2010: 1,073,340

2011: 1,075,683

Net: +2,343

 

5. Toledo-Fremont, OH

2010: 712,061

2011: 711,000

Net: -1,061

 

6. Youngstown-Warren-East Liverpool, OH-PA

2010: 672,824

2011: 670,309

Net: -2,515

 

7. Lima-Van Wert-Wapakoneta, OH

2010: 180,884

2011: 180,533

Net: -351

 

8. Mansfield-Bucyrus, OH

2010: 168,018

2011: 166,899

Net: -1,119

 

9. Findlay-Tiffin, OH

2010: 131,375

2011: 131,525

Net: +150

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

So overall...

 

Ohio Census Population of CSA & MSA: April 1, 2010 to July 1, 2011

 

1. Cleveland-Akron-Elyria: 2,871,084

2. Cincinnati-Middletown-Wilmington: 2,179,965

3. Columbus-Marion-Chillicothe: 2,093,185

4. Dayton-Springfield-Greenville: 1,075,683

5. Toledo-Fremont: 711,000

6. Youngstown-Warren-East Liverpool: 670,309

7. Canton-Massillon: 403,869

8. Huntington-Ashland-Ironton: 287,599

9. Lima-Van Wert-Wapakoneta: 180,533

10. Mansfield-Bucyrus: 166,899

11. Parkersburg-Marietta-Vienna: 162,248

12. Wheeling-St. Clairsville: 147,197

13. Findlay-Tiffin: 131,525

14. Steubenville-Weirton: 123,243

15. Sandusky: 76,751

 

And for added bonus:

*Cleveland-Akron-Canton: 3,274,953

*Cincinnati-Dayton-Springfield: 3,255,648

Here are some even newer estimates. I can't imagine the use of CSAs unless significant numbers of people are driving 100 miles each way to work each day, but notice how different they are from the estimates given just 6 months earlier. The differences suggest how many assumptions are included within these estimates and questionable their statistical validity is.

 

 

Metro or micro

 

Population (estimated as of Jan. 15, 2012)

 

Rank

 

Population (actual as of April 1, 2010)

 

Rank

 

 

 

Cincinnati-Middletown, OH-KY-IN

 

2,146,002

 

27

 

2,130,151

 

27

 

 

 

Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor, OH

 

2,064,950

 

29

 

2,077,240

 

28

 

 

 

Columbus, OH

 

1,876,811

 

31

 

1,836,536

 

32

 

 

 

Dayton, OH

 

840,331

 

62

 

841,502

 

61

 

 

 

Akron, OH

 

703,358

 

75

 

703,200

 

72

 

 

 

Toledo, OH

 

647,491

 

83

 

651,429

 

81

 

 

 

Youngstown-Warren-Boardman, OH-PA

 

559,600

 

93

 

565,773

 

90

 

 

 

Canton-Massillon, OH

 

403,239

 

129

 

404,422

 

128

 

 

 

Springfield, OH

 

137,240

 

306

 

138,333

 

297

 

 

 

Steubenville-Weirton, OH-WV

 

123,463

 

336

 

124,454

 

332

 

Crazy how Cbus MSA is creeping up on Ctown.

I wouldn't get too excited over estimates.

^Regardless though Cleveland needs to stop losing population. We all know there are elements that may point to a future stablization/turn around in the loss of population, but Cleveland's MSA has been shrinking for a while and now the CSA is losing.

 

At Matthew Hall, I can see the use of CSAs in cases where the combined metros are tightly intertwined. I don't think people need to be traveling 100 miles for work for CSAs to matter, especially when in a lot of cases a different metro area is right across the street from the other that's in the same CSA (Summit/Cuyahoga line), (Butler/Montgomery line).

^^In fairness, Cleveland's CSA/MSA was losing population according to estimates in the early/mid 1990's but then had a net population gain in both by the 2000 census. Of course 2010 was worse than the estimates for most Ohio metros. What you are pointing out is important but I'm just reflecting on what estimates are: estimates.

Crazy how Cbus MSA is creeping up on Ctown.

 

It helps when you have four directions to sprawl.  Cleveland's still the largest metro "in Ohio" 

Crazy how Cbus MSA is creeping up on Ctown.

 

It helps when you have four directions to sprawl.  Cleveland's still the largest metro "in Ohio" 

 

LOL, and the Cleveland-Akron CSA is still the largest Census designated place in Ohio as well.

My points are that business and govn't use MSAs for their decisions, not CSAs and that the MSA estimates are more wrong for some MSAs than others. That was the case for the estimates before the 2010 estimates. We have to look to other measures to understand metros between the census'.

The four directions to sprawl is inaccurate as it had been shown in another thread that Columbus is the least sprawly major metropolitan area in the state.  There are many cities that have a water barriers that sprawl heavily and are growing (Chicago, Los Angeles, Seattle, Miami, Tampa, etc) and there are many cities without any sort of water barrier (meaning, that "can sprawl on 4 sides") that are not showing "Columbus-type" growth such as St. Louis and Pittsburgh.

^What is the other thread you mention, CDM?  (Just curioius for more census talk.)

This one, good sir:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,27136.0.html

My points are that business and govn't use MSAs for their decisions, not CSAs and that the MSA estimates are more wrong for some MSAs than others. That was the case for the estimates before the 2010 estimates. We have to look to other measures to understand metros between the census'.

I understand the government part of your reply, but could you go into more detail when you say business?

The four directions to sprawl is inaccurate as it had been shown in another thread that Columbus is the least sprawly major metropolitan area in the state.  There are many cities that have a water barriers that sprawl heavily and are growing (Chicago, Los Angeles, Seattle, Miami, Tampa, etc) and there are many cities without any sort of water barrier (meaning, that "can sprawl on 4 sides") that are not showing "Columbus-type" growth such as St. Louis and Pittsburgh.

 

Now unbunch the panties.  Don't get so worked up.  It's Friday!

 

(That was meant  as something less than a serious comment, too).

Cleveland's & Youngstown's numbers are disappointing considering all the positive press about job growth in those two metros.

Now unbunch the panties.  Don't get so worked up.  It's Friday!

 

Uh huh.

Cleveland's & Youngstown's numbers are disappointing considering all the positive press about job growth in those two metros.

Yeah i don't understand it either. Fort Meyers seems to have had the worse economy in the USA and still grew by 10k+. Charlotte has had a bad economy as well and still grew 60k+. wtf!!! Las Vegas seems to have came to  a Halt though.

What data is used to produce Census estimates?

Cleveland's & Youngstown's numbers are disappointing considering all the positive press about job growth in those two metros.

Yeah i don't understand it either. Fort Meyers seems to have had the worse economy in the USA and still grew by 10k+. Charlotte has had a bad economy as well and still grew 60k+. wtf!!! Las Vegas seems to have came to  a Halt though.

Fort Myers is a popular place for those retiring from the midwest and elsewhere. Those folks aren't looking for jobs therefore the local economy isn't that much a factor.

Mainly IRS data and births and deaths.

Crazy how Cbus MSA is creeping up on Ctown.

 

And also a dedicated source of employment in taxpayer funded state jobs.

 

Census estimates assume that the trends of the last ten years have continued in a straight line. No additional census data is gathered. Then they put the deviations from the long term trends in wages, jobs, and property markets for the metro into their formulas to calculate an estimate. The models are standard economic ones and don't consider the distinct internal demographics of each metro over time or the deeper structural differences between metros explained by distinct economic histories. In other words, people are logical rational actors and all their actions, including deciding where they live, can be pefectly explained by clear measurable factors. It assumes that if two metros have the same stats, they will have the same population trends. The great economic collapse has shown such models to be wrong. In 1990 cleveland and cincinnati had similiar job, income, property markets and other measures yet their courses have clearly diverged. These models can't explain why cincinnati gained 250,000 people and cleveland lost 30,000 in the last 20 years. These estimates have little value other than as a way to compare conventional expectations and reality in metro development.

Straight line projections? So in other words we're using the past to predict the future. OK.

Straight line projections? So in other words we're using the past to predict the future. OK.

 

Estimates based on assumptions. They did that in Atlanta with the estimates for the city coming in 100,000 over the Census 2010 actuals. Seems like there would be another way to more accurately estimate populations in this country.

Theses estimates have a political purpose more than anything else. Economic development authorities like them because they can use them to promote their metro economies. Since they overestimate population growth in suburban, newer metros with more transient young people moving in and out and changing jobs and residences along the way, the real estate interests and those seeking to lure transplant operations can use them to overcome fears that even if their metros don't have the combination of services, housing choices, and social life that employers like, they will in the future. It says "hey, we may not have these things now, but if people like you keep coming, we will and you'll have gotten in on the ground floor." Much of the success of boomtowns depends on their perception as 'successful'. People move there on the expectation that they are getting in on something that will come good in the future, not based on what it actually has to offer now. Let's face it, many boomtowns look bland and lack important experiences that even the most "failed" metros still have to offer. If the perception of the inevitability of future growth is threatened, it challenges their economic development efforts much more than an established metro. Established metros aren't as threatened by this because people are actually already there and have actual experiences to use to compare to the PR image. Americans are forward looking and plan for  the future they imagine more than the present world they know. It's what makes America special, but it is also what makes America vulnerable to booms and busts. America started this economic collapse and the one in the 1930s for these reasons. These estimates are economic promotion tools, not hard data.