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Or a twofer ... Attract migrating populations that are disproportionately more likely to have children / multigenerational migration? It would be interesting to see if international migration patterns match up to larger household sizes. My guess, anectdotally, is that it probably differs by native culture but that in-migration of international households probably has more "bang for its buck" than does domestic in-migration, all things being equal. If the sole/main goal is population stabilization/increases, I would think this is where you put the focus of your marketing focus.

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I'm not sure that the highest educated foreign in-migration will provide the kind of population stimulus that other groups of foreign migrants mights (or internal migrants from certain places).

  • 2 weeks later...

I've talked some about foreign-born population, and did the numbers for the 3 largest counties, but not for the 7 largest metro counties, nor did I include 2010.  So here they are.

 

Foreign-born population by county, 1950-2010, total and % of population.

 

Cuyahoga County

Total

1950: 183,833

1960: 146,720

1970: 138,633

1980: 98,608

1990: 77,701

2000: 88,700

2010: 89,609

 

% of Population

1950: 13.2%

1960: 8.9%

1970: 8.1%

1980: 6.6%

1990: 5.5%

2000: 6.4%

2010: 7.0%

 

Franklin County

Total

1950: 13,046

1960: 15,426

1970: 17,882

1980: 22,080

1990: 31,542

2000: 64,253

2010: 103,544

 

% of Population

1950: 2.6%

1960: 2.3%

1970: 2.1%

1980: 2.5%

1990: 3.3%

2000: 6.0%

2010: 8.9%

 

Hamilton County

Total

1950: 25.654

1960: 25,790

1970: 22,658

1980: 20,590

1990: 21,636

2000: 28,441

2010: 36,909

 

% of Population

1950: 3.5%

1960: 3.0%

1970: 2.5%

1980: 2.4%

1990: 2.5%

2000: 3.4%

2010: 4.6%

 

Lucas County

Total

1950: 22,604

1960: 22,652

1970: 15,103

1980: 13,153

1990: 12,312

2000: 14,442

2010: 16,347

 

% of Population

1950: 5.7%

1960: 5.0%

1970: 3.1%

1980: 2.8%

1990: 2.7%

2000: 3.2%

2010: 3.7%

 

Mahoning County

Total

1950: 29,774

1960: 24,055

1970: 16,936

1980: 11,867

1990: 7,441

2000: 6,061

2010: 7,404

 

% of Population

1950: 11.6%

1960: 8.0%

1970: 5.6%

1980: 4.1%

1990: 2.8%

2000: 2.4%

2010: 3.1%

 

Montgomery County

Total

1950: 10,558

1960: 10,795

1970: 10,714

1980: 11,148

1990: 11,094

2000: 13,795

2010: 17,660

 

% of Population

1950: 2.6%

1960: 2.0%

1970: 1.8%

1980: 1.9%

1990: 1.9%

2000: 2.5%

2010: 3.3%

 

Summit County

Total

1950: 28,606

1960: 24,269

1970: 22,379

1980: 17,180

1990: 14,860

2000: 17,709

2010: 22,755

 

% of Population

1950: 7.0%

1960: 4.7%

1970: 4.0%

1980: 3.3%

1990: 2.9%

2000: 3.3%

2010: 4.2%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At this rate, Cleveland's MSA will completely disappear by the year 2295..... around the same time Columbus will reach twice the population of any other Ohio MSA..... and The USS Enterprise NCC-1701-B will be embarking on its first missions.

Farewell Cleveland...

 

1701b.jpg

 

 

On a more serious note-  I'm shocked at the fact that of Ohio's 13 metros only three are growing.  And more shocked that I found almost no other States in that bad of shape.  I obviously knew the vast majority of Cities would be declining but assumed most of the metros would be stagnant or barely growing as opposed to declining.

 

Scary!

This should still like all estimates be taken with a grain of salt. 

On a more serious note-  I'm shocked at the fact that of Ohio's 13 metros only three are growing.  And more shocked that I found almost no other States in that bad of shape.  I obviously knew the vast majority of Cities would be declining but assumed most of the metros would be stagnant or barely growing as opposed to declining.

 

Scary!

 

Everyone wants to live in a desert.  Everyone eats McDonald's.  Everyone drinks Bud Light.  Everyone shops at Wal-Mart.  Everyone watches Jersey Shore.  Nothing surprises me in America anymore.

 

On a more serious note-  I'm shocked at the fact that of Ohio's 13 metros only three are growing.  And more shocked that I found almost no other States in that bad of shape.  I obviously knew the vast majority of Cities would be declining but assumed most of the metros would be stagnant or barely growing as opposed to declining.

 

Scary!

 

Everyone wants to live in a dessert.  Everyone eats McDonald's.  Everyone drinks Bud Light.  Everyone shops at Wal-Mart.  Everyone watches Jersey Shore.  Nothing surprises me in America anymore.

 

If I could live in a dessert, it would pumpkin pie with whipped cream and a little pumpkin ice cream on the side.

^ I'm trying to decide which dessert I want to live in: chocolate mousse, cheesecake, or pumpkin pie.

Dammit, I got beat to the punch. But you have convinced me -- pumpkin pie it is!

On a more serious note-  I'm shocked at the fact that of Ohio's 13 metros only three are growing.  And more shocked that I found almost no other States in that bad of shape.  I obviously knew the vast majority of Cities would be declining but assumed most of the metros would be stagnant or barely growing as opposed to declining.

 

Scary!

 

Everyone wants to live in a dessert.  Everyone eats McDonald's.  Everyone drinks Bud Light.  Everyone shops at Wal-Mart.  Everyone watches Jersey Shore.  Nothing surprises me in America anymore.

 

If I could live in a dessert, it would pumpkin pie with whipped cream and a little pumpkin ice cream on the side.

 

Haha, whoops.

On a more serious note-  I'm shocked at the fact that of Ohio's 13 metros only three are growing.  And more shocked that I found almost no other States in that bad of shape.  I obviously knew the vast majority of Cities would be declining but assumed most of the metros would be stagnant or barely growing as opposed to declining.

 

Scary!

 

Everyone wants to live in a desert.  Everyone eats McDonald's.  Everyone drinks Bud Light.  Everyone shops at Wal-Mart.  Everyone watches Jersey Shore.  Nothing surprises me in America anymore.

 

 

....NO...NO...NO.........

michaelshh.gif

I like McDonald's breakfast--good if you are on the run. 

I like McDonald's breakfast--good if you are on the want the runs

 

There... fixed that for you...

These figures should surprise no one.  Years of physical decline compounded by the foreclosure crisis have left Ohio's cities difficult to market.  And as the city goes, so goes the metro.  All of the problems we talk about here-- lack of transit, anti-density policies, rampant demolition-- remain largely unchecked, and shrinkage is the inevitable result.  I think it will take a solid decade of improvement before we see any indication of a corner being turned.

Correct on your first sentence.  Correct on your second sentence.  Correct on your third sentence.  3 for 3.

 

However, take a look at the large gains made by numerous metros with "anti-density policies" and relative "lack of transit"...... and putting aside the fact that your conspiracy theory of "anti-density policies" is a point of contention...... I don't think there is a strong connection between anything you are constantly complaining about and the loss of population in the inner city core.

 

I also am not in the camp, at least for the City I know (Cleveland), that loss of population is a bad thing.  I would need some more context on exactly who we are losing, why they are moving away, and to where.  Not really relevant to the numbers above, but I happen to think positively about the long-term effects of the shift of low income families from Cleveland proper to the post-war, blue collar former middle class suburbs on the south side (which in turn may cause those areas to decline).  It may not look good from a pure population statistics view, but it is a burden lifted off the City which has too many low-income families vs. more stable households..... and, like you implied, what's good for the City is good for the metro.

Correct on your first sentence.  Correct on your second sentence.  Correct on your third sentence.  3 for 3.

 

How very gracious of you to point this out.

These figures should surprise no one.  Years of physical decline compounded by the foreclosure crisis have left Ohio's cities difficult to market.  And as the city goes, so goes the metro.  All of the problems we talk about here-- lack of transit, anti-density policies, rampant demolition-- remain largely unchecked, and shrinkage is the inevitable result.  I think it will take a solid decade of improvement before we see any indication of a corner being turned.

 

Yep, pretty much.

Not sure how they come up with some of these numbers. The state is doing better economy wise than other faster growing states. Adding jobs yet the population is not increasing as fast as those other states. Do Ohio have more people working 2 or 3 jobs than those faster growing states or something?

^Retirees and illegal immigrants could be a major factor because neither of those groups is likely to have any effect on the "official" jobs numbers..... the "boom" states have those in spades.  Us, not so much.

These figures should surprise no one.  Years of physical decline compounded by the foreclosure crisis have left Ohio's cities difficult to market.  And as the city goes, so goes the metro.  All of the problems we talk about here-- lack of transit, anti-density policies, rampant demolition-- remain largely unchecked, and shrinkage is the inevitable result.  I think it will take a solid decade of improvement before we see any indication of a corner being turned.

 

Maybe all Ohio's metros just spend too much time in the pool...

Not sure how they come up with some of these numbers. The state is doing better economy wise than other faster growing states. Adding jobs yet the population is not increasing as fast as those other states. Do Ohio have more people working 2 or 3 jobs than those faster growing states or something?

 

People continue to move to places with terrible economies (California, Nevada, North Carolina) too.  Conclusion: people don't bother to research where they're moving and would rather live in a state perceived as "cool" or "up and coming" rather than economically stable or where they would have far more opportunity for upward mobility.  The Sun Belt is notoriously bad with this.

  • 2 weeks later...

Does anyone know when the ACS estimates are released?

  • 1 year later...

I found the population portion of the RTA budget intriguing and it  gave me hope for the future.

gy9yzege.jpg

 

  • 3 months later...

Look at how many people are moving out of Ohio and the rest of the Midwest vs moving in from other states. Ever wonder why Ohio's population hasn't grown much since 1970? This is a pretty good reason why (and that we aren't fighting for the declining number of immigrants coming to America vs. to other countries like Canada)......

 

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/11/22/chart-of-the-week-americans-on-the-move/

 

BZsCreFCUAAlkjN.png:large

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

Hmm, Im actually pleasantly surprised that the net loss for Ohio isnt even 3k. With the way people make it out to be I thought it would be looking more like NY...

according to the chart, big number of Ohioans moving to Florida, obviously baby boomers retiring.  No surprise there but def skews the numbers

How do we know that this is really a "brain drain" anyway?  My guess is that the average IQ in most southeastern states and Ohio both go up when someone moves from here to there, especially for the types of jobs they are moving for.

How do we know that this is really a "brain drain" anyway?  My guess is that the average IQ in most southeastern states and Ohio both go up when someone moves from here to there, especially for the types of jobs they are moving for.

 

It was the only thread covering statewide population changes and I didn't want to start a new thread.

 

BTW, I was very surprised at the total lack of ingress of Americans into several northeastern states even though the populations of those states have grown faster than Ohio's (+6%) since 1980 -- Pennsylvania (+10%), New York (+11%), Connecticut (+16%), Massachusetts (+18%) and New Jersey (+20%).

 

I chalk that up to a lack of new foreign immigrants coming to Ohio vs the other states.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

Interesting graphic, though not the easiest to use. According to it, NOBODY moved to Washington DC except from MD and VA--I find this difficult to be true.

I read the graphic as suggesting fewer than 10,000 people moved between DC and any non-MD/VA state.

^Ah, thanks, I didn't noticed the cut-off at 10,000 when I first looked at it. Thanks. That must mess with the totals, though, and thus the overall impact. For example if one state lost 7,000 on average to 10 states---that's a loss of 70,000, but it would not be reflected in the diagram at all.

Some population/racial distributions/locations in Cleveland-Akron......

 

BaF54N-CQAA9bH6.jpg:large

 

West Cleveland/Lakewood...

BaF73OHCEAAGRbR.jpg:large

 

Wow.....That line between black folks and white folks in Cleveland / Shaker Hts is the Blue Line rapid / Van Aken Blvd.

 

BaF6xpxCcAAMfyW.jpg:large

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

^And also the line between some very expensive housing and some fairly middle of the road housing, correct?

Hmm, Im actually pleasantly surprised that the net loss for Ohio isnt even 3k. With the way people make it out to be I thought it would be looking more like NY...

 

http://allcolumbusdata.com/?p=2065

 

Ohio's domestic migration problem has been improving for some time. 

according to the chart, big number of Ohioans moving to Florida, obviously baby boomers retiring.  No surprise there but def skews the numbers

 

Florida is the #1 state for out-migration from Ohio, but it's also the #1 state for in-migration TO Ohio.  I suspect this is a lot of old retirees, though it does seem like quite a few end up coming back.

In a few years Ohio's out-migration to Florida will be surpassed by out-migration to Cuba. 

according to the chart, big number of Ohioans moving to Florida, obviously baby boomers retiring.  No surprise there but def skews the numbers

 

Florida is the #1 state for out-migration from Ohio, but it's also the #1 state for in-migration TO Ohio.  I suspect this is a lot of old retirees, though it does seem like quite a few end up coming back.

 

Also a lot of younger people tapping out and coming back as they found out moving to Florida didn't turn to be the cure-all hard reset they expected.

according to the chart, big number of Ohioans moving to Florida, obviously baby boomers retiring.  No surprise there but def skews the numbers

 

Florida is the #1 state for out-migration from Ohio, but it's also the #1 state for in-migration TO Ohio.  I suspect this is a lot of old retirees, though it does seem like quite a few end up coming back.

 

Also a lot of younger people tapping out and coming back as they found out moving to Florida didn't turn to be the cure-all hard reset they expected.

 

Yep, this happens a lot more than people realize.

Hmm, Im actually pleasantly surprised that the net loss for Ohio isnt even 3k. With the way people make it out to be I thought it would be looking more like NY...

 

http://allcolumbusdata.com/?p=2065

 

Ohio's domestic migration problem has been improving for some time. 

 

Could the slowing of outmigration be related to the recession? No jobs to move to (especially in the Sunbelt), and no chance to sell the house with the underwater mortgage?

according to the chart, big number of Ohioans moving to Florida, obviously baby boomers retiring.  No surprise there but def skews the numbers

 

Florida is the #1 state for out-migration from Ohio, but it's also the #1 state for in-migration TO Ohio.  I suspect this is a lot of old retirees, though it does seem like quite a few end up coming back.

 

Also a lot of younger people tapping out and coming back as they found out moving to Florida didn't turn to be the cure-all hard reset they expected.

 

Yep, this happens a lot more than people realize.

 

Except for very specific areas, Florida is a dump.  And the problem is you're surrounded by thousands upon thousands of people who moved their with the same visions in their head, few of whom will ever admit that the reality is something other than what they want to imagine it is. 

 

The absolute worst are those people who feel a need to email or call you when they hear there's snow in Ohio, and tell you what the weather is there.  Yeah, it's sunny and warm, but everyone's inside watching TV getting fat, just like they would have been doing here.

 

 

 

The things I love about Florida are the beaches, bays and backwaters, the everglades....the man made stuff, not so much.

Yeah, it's sunny and warm, but everyone's inside watching TV getting fat, just like they would have been doing here.

 

I can't help notice that about Florida every time I go there.  Everyone moves there for the weather, and then never goes outside.  It's a very weird place.

Yeah, it's sunny and warm, but everyone's inside watching TV getting fat, just like they would have been doing here.

 

I can't help notice that about Florida every time I go there.  Everyone moves there for the weather, and then never goes outside.  It's a very weird place.

 

Having lived there for three years, that's entirely accurate. I argue that it's mostly a function of urban design. Florida just isn't very walkable and has little civic infrastructure that lends itself to just being outside recreationally, unless you're right on the beach. When you go to the small areas of walkable neighborhood like south beach, downtown Orlando, or Riverside in Jacksonville, you see people outside in abundance, unless it's very hot.

Hmm, Im actually pleasantly surprised that the net loss for Ohio isnt even 3k. With the way people make it out to be I thought it would be looking more like NY...

 

http://allcolumbusdata.com/?p=2065

 

Ohio's domestic migration problem has been improving for some time. 

 

Could the slowing of outmigration be related to the recession? No jobs to move to (especially in the Sunbelt), and no chance to sell the house with the underwater mortgage?

 

Doubtful, as it seems the trend began before the recession and has continued since it ended.

according to the chart, big number of Ohioans moving to Florida, obviously baby boomers retiring.  No surprise there but def skews the numbers

 

Florida is the #1 state for out-migration from Ohio, but it's also the #1 state for in-migration TO Ohio.  I suspect this is a lot of old retirees, though it does seem like quite a few end up coming back.

 

Also a lot of younger people tapping out and coming back as they found out moving to Florida didn't turn to be the cure-all hard reset they expected.

 

Yep, this happens a lot more than people realize.

 

Except for very specific areas, Florida is a dump.  And the problem is you're surrounded by thousands upon thousands of people who moved their with the same visions in their head, few of whom will ever admit that the reality is something other than what they want to imagine it is. 

 

The absolute worst are those people who feel a need to email or call you when they hear there's snow in Ohio, and tell you what the weather is there.  Yeah, it's sunny and warm, but everyone's inside watching TV getting fat, just like they would have been doing here.

 

All of this is spot on.

 

It's miserable in Florida with no job prospects.  I went to UF and most graduates goals were to find a job OUTSIDE of Florida because opportunity there was so hard to come by.  It's nice to visit, but give it a week and you are ready to leave again.  Everything looks the same, and it is one chain after another sprawled along 10 miles of Walmarts and Targets.  Leave your air conditioned house to get into your air conditioned car, and check your shoes for scorpions.

My parents lived in Orlando (College Park area) during the winters until they were too old to travel back and forth with the change of seasons. So they picked Ohio to live in year round. The reason was family and while they liked the College Park area, they hated how Orlando was developing with look-a-like sprawl everywhere and out of control traffic.

 

There are some general areas of Florida I really like -- the north central part of the state with the rolling hills and orange tree orchards. In that area, the citrus smell alone is worth driving to Florida for, but you have to drive far inland to ever-shrinking areas to find "natural Florida." I remember a decade ago driving north from Orlando in search of "real Florida" and not finding until passing north of Leesburg -- an hour out of Orlando. I also like the Everglades and a few of the beach areas like Naples, Key West and South Beach -- but those are the kinds of places I could only visit. I could never live there. I could live in Orlando's College Park or in Winter Park. But those areas are so small that I would have to venture into the sprawl to find many things for basic living.

 

I like history, and old structures, and the sense that where I am living has roots and traditions -- as well as modern architecture. I like that Ohio has this -- including the snow (although I do get tired of snow by February and March). Ohio lacks other things I like, but I can at least get my rail fix here in Cleveland. Maybe some day I'll move to a colonial town in the Northeast with lots of rail service and awesome scenery. But for now I am content with what I have.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

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