March 22, 20187 yr The numbers aren't fully out yet, but Cuyahoga County made the top 10 list... for biggest numeric population decrease. 2016: 1,253,45 2017: 1,248,514 Change: -4,940 This was the 3rd largest county decrease in the nation. Your hatred for Cleveland shows every time you talk about the place. I get it you go back and forth with several Cleveland posters on other sites, but again, I don't get why you talk so negatively about a city you know literally nothing about. I'm still waiting to hear about this. And if you don't think this post I quoted you in doesn't reek of being smart, try reading it from an outsiders perspective. "Made a top 10 list..." Don't troll, it doesn't look good. At the time I posted it, it was the only Ohio-related information available. And I just stated a fact, I did not go into some anti-Cleveland rant. Jesus you guys are sensitive. Chill out.
March 22, 20187 yr I wouldn't say it's irrelevant. It can become skewed if you have lots of rural areas like you mention with Hamilton County, but it's certainly relevant if the entire county is a contiguous urban area like Cuyahoga is and like Franklin is getting very close to being. I wonder if you took the inner 75% of Franklin County, what the population density would be compared to Cuyahoga. (Excluding mainly the areas on the western and southern edges of the county) Fact is that that walkable areas that are gentrified in the Midwest are almost, to a man, populated by people who also own cars. The authentic urban areas that were built on walking and streetcars become drive-to urbanism. The walkability is just a selling point and the walking is mostly dog walking and jogging and the occasional walk to a restaurant. Most people still drive to the grocery and to work and the gym. Mt. Adams and German Village are probably the prime examples of this.
March 22, 20187 yr Oh most definitely, I have lived in Cleveland and Columbus in "walkable areas" and most of my friends and acquaintances seem to be surprised when I actually want to walk places. Especially if it takes more than, gasp, ten minutes.
March 22, 20187 yr Yet Cuyahoga County, which is smaller in area than Franklin County, remains far more densely populated. There are 2,731 people per square mile in Cuyahoga County versus 2,428 per square mile in Franklin County. http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2018/03/cuyahoga_county_no_3_nationall.html#incart_m-rpt-1 Aside from Jake's points which I agree with, I would hardly call a difference of 300 "far more" considering one is increasing by greater than 50 per year and the other is dropping by over 10 In less than 5 years from now Franklin County will likely be on top as far as density, and that's with a substantial amount of the southwestern portion embargoed from any development at all thanks to the Big Darby Accord
March 22, 20187 yr Didn't know we were keeping score...I really hate this thread. It always turns into a pissing contest. I was just quoting the Dispatch, didn't mean to imply there was a "score" - it was just how the author of the article wrote it. Very Stable Genius
March 22, 20187 yr Most people still drive to the grocery and to work and the gym. Mt. Adams and German Village are probably the prime examples of this. I live in German Village and walk to work (downtown), the gym (a street north of me), and probably 50% of the time I walk or bike to the grocery store. Ymmv. Very Stable Genius
March 22, 20187 yr Yeah, I'm not getting into this pissing contest but yes, sections of western Franklin County are in the Big Darby Accord and will likely not be urbanized anytime soon. Still, impressive for the state as a whole for growing when folks count us out all the time. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 22, 20187 yr Aside from Jake's points which I agree with, I would hardly call a difference of 300 "far more" considering one is increasing by greater than 50 per year and the other is dropping by over 10 In less than 5 years from now Franklin County will likely be on top as far as density, and that's with a substantial amount of the southwestern portion embargoed from any development at all thanks to the Big Darby Accord I don't get the sense that Cincinnatians are in the least threatened by the likely rise of Columbus as the state's #1 city in 10-20 years. The big difference between the two is that Columbus is soon going to max out repopulation of its prewar areas, which are probably half of what Cincinnati has. So Cincinnati housing prices, overall, are going to remain lower because there are so many uncool 2-3 bedroom Cape Cods ALL OVER THE PLACE in Cincinnati. Nobody wants to live in them but the market isn't motivating tear-downs outside of Maedeira and a handful of wealthy east side neighborhoods. Cincinnati also has tons and tons of small multi-families owned by local landlords. Again, I wouldn't hesitate to estimate that Cincinnati has 2x as many 2-4 family dwellings as Columbus. Columbus is going to need more new construction to keep growing and so housing prices will get much higher even if the metro is only 5-10% larger than Cincinnati. Small-time investors can't build multi-families profitably, so Columbus could run into a housing crisis situation in short order.
March 22, 20187 yr Am I missing something here? I thought Cuyahoga County's population as of 2016 was 1,249,352 which would put the population loss only at 838. Which would also mean the MSA had a net population gain. Brand new so I don't know how to post links, but see the cleveland.com article from a year ago on the census release. He's right, the 2016 estimate for Cuyahoga Co was 1,249,352 https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2017/cb17-44.html So did Cleveland MSA gain or lose in these new estimates?
March 22, 20187 yr Aside from Jake's points which I agree with, I would hardly call a difference of 300 "far more" considering one is increasing by greater than 50 per year and the other is dropping by over 10 In less than 5 years from now Franklin County will likely be on top as far as density, and that's with a substantial amount of the southwestern portion embargoed from any development at all thanks to the Big Darby Accord I don't get the sense that Cincinnatians are in the least threatened by the likely rise of Columbus as the state's #1 city in 10-20 years. The big difference between the two is that Columbus is soon going to max out repopulation of its prewar areas, which are probably half of what Cincinnati has. So Cincinnati housing prices, overall, are going to remain lower because there are so many uncool 2-3 bedroom Cape Cods ALL OVER THE PLACE in Cincinnati. Nobody wants to live in them but the market isn't motivating tear-downs outside of Maedeira and a handful of wealthy east side neighborhoods. Cincinnati also has tons and tons of small multi-families owned by local landlords. Again, I wouldn't hesitate to estimate that Cincinnati has 2x as many 2-4 family dwellings as Columbus. Columbus is going to need more new construction to keep growing and so housing prices will get much higher even if the metro is only 5-10% larger than Cincinnati. Small-time investors can't build multi-families profitably, so Columbus could run into a housing crisis situation in short order. Columbus housing, I believe, is already more expensive and has been for some time. As far as crappy 1950s-60s Cape Cods, that’s basically most of Linden.
March 22, 20187 yr Am I missing something here? I thought Cuyahoga County's population as of 2016 was 1,249,352 which would put the population loss only at 838. Which would also mean the MSA had a net population gain. Brand new so I don't know how to post links, but see the cleveland.com article from a year ago on the census release. He's right, the 2016 estimate for Cuyahoga Co was 1,249,352 https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2017/cb17-44.html So did Cleveland MSA gain or lose in these new estimates? "down an estimated 272 people" http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2018/03/cuyahoga_county_no_3_nationall.html Sorry, the above was for combined Cleveland/Akron area. I just checked the Census site and the Cleveland MSA alone was down 1,221 from 2016.
March 22, 20187 yr Am I missing something here? I thought Cuyahoga County's population as of 2016 was 1,249,352 which would put the population loss only at 838. Which would also mean the MSA had a net population gain. Brand new so I don't know how to post links, but see the cleveland.com article from a year ago on the census release. He's right, the 2016 estimate for Cuyahoga Co was 1,249,352 https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2017/cb17-44.html So did Cleveland MSA gain or lose in these new estimates? It lost, but the loss is not as great as in recent years. Hope that’s not a controversial statement!
March 22, 20187 yr Aside from Jake's points which I agree with, I would hardly call a difference of 300 "far more" considering one is increasing by greater than 50 per year and the other is dropping by over 10 In less than 5 years from now Franklin County will likely be on top as far as density, and that's with a substantial amount of the southwestern portion embargoed from any development at all thanks to the Big Darby Accord I don't get the sense that Cincinnatians are in the least threatened by the likely rise of Columbus as the state's #1 city in 10-20 years. The big difference between the two is that Columbus is soon going to max out repopulation of its prewar areas, which are probably half of what Cincinnati has. So Cincinnati housing prices, overall, are going to remain lower because there are so many uncool 2-3 bedroom Cape Cods ALL OVER THE PLACE in Cincinnati. Nobody wants to live in them but the market isn't motivating tear-downs outside of Maedeira and a handful of wealthy east side neighborhoods. Cincinnati also has tons and tons of small multi-families owned by local landlords. Again, I wouldn't hesitate to estimate that Cincinnati has 2x as many 2-4 family dwellings as Columbus. Columbus is going to need more new construction to keep growing and so housing prices will get much higher even if the metro is only 5-10% larger than Cincinnati. Small-time investors can't build multi-families profitably, so Columbus could run into a housing crisis situation in short order. And there's really not much in the way of new subdivision development around Columbus as compared to the increase in population. It is definitely not the mid-2000s. You've got some action up in Delaware County but that's most of it. Much more of the growth is infill.
March 22, 20187 yr So did Cleveland MSA gain or lose in these new estimates? It lost - along with most of the older big-city, big-county jurisdictions in the NE-Midwest. The morning WSJ attributes it to baby-boomer retirements and moves to some modern version of purgatory. One interesting deduction from the PD's count, the region (including Akron) lost 272 which is fewer people than died of murders and overdoses. This, coupled with boomer departures, seems to support the general impression that there is substantial regional growth in upcoming generations' numbers. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
March 22, 20187 yr The big difference between the two is that Columbus is soon going to max out repopulation of its prewar areas, which are probably half of what Cincinnati has. So Cincinnati housing prices, overall, are going to remain lower because there are so many uncool 2-3 bedroom Cape Cods ALL OVER THE PLACE in Cincinnati. Nobody wants to live in them but the market isn't motivating tear-downs outside of Maedeira and a handful of wealthy east side neighborhoods. Cincinnati also has tons and tons of small multi-families owned by local landlords. Again, I wouldn't hesitate to estimate that Cincinnati has 2x as many 2-4 family dwellings as Columbus. Columbus is going to need more new construction to keep growing and so housing prices will get much higher even if the metro is only 5-10% larger than Cincinnati. Small-time investors can't build multi-families profitably, so Columbus could run into a housing crisis situation in short order. I think there could definitely be a coming crisis in the Columbus housing market, especially at the lower end. I actually think some of the postwar 60s-70s areas that have become very cheap in the last 20 years (Forest Park, Northland) will be desirable once again before some of the prewar neighborhoods like the Hilltop or South Linden Couple this together with the fact that a lot of other postwar development that has aged (and would traditionally be the next stop out for those displaced from gentrifying inner city neighborhoods) never lost its desirability at all (Bethel Rd, NW Columbus in general) and are unlikely to. So, when places like the Hilltop finally do start to get repopulated and invested in, I'm really not sure where is left for those people to go... Right now the only places that seem to make sense are Eastland/Reynoldsburg and S High between Grove City and Obetz, which are not even remotely large enough to carry that burden by themselves
March 22, 20187 yr Am I missing something here? I thought Cuyahoga County's population as of 2016 was 1,249,352 which would put the population loss only at 838. Which would also mean the MSA had a net population gain. Brand new so I don't know how to post links, but see the cleveland.com article from a year ago on the census release. Previous year estimates are usually adjusted when new ones come out. Estimates are not adjusted.. From the census website... With each new release of annual estimates, the entire time series of estimates is revised for all years back to the last census.
March 22, 20187 yr And there's really not much in the way of new subdivision development around Columbus as compared to the increase in population. It is definitely not the mid-2000s. You've got some action up in Delaware County but that's most of it. Much more of the growth is infill. Suburban townships and incorporated areas have generally zoned out small houses. You can't build a 1200 sq foot 1941 cape cod even if you wanted to. You can't build a 2100 sq foot 2-family. Meanwhile, there aren't that many people, percentage-wise, who are having 4 kids AND have the income to afford a 3000+ sq foot house. Yeah, they're going up, but not in huge numbers. In the city, it's tough to build anything for under $200,000. It doesn't cost much more to build an 1800 sq foot house as compared to a 1200 sq foot, so the smaller infill houses aren't getting built.
March 22, 20187 yr The big difference between the two is that Columbus is soon going to max out repopulation of its prewar areas, which are probably half of what Cincinnati has. So Cincinnati housing prices, overall, are going to remain lower because there are so many uncool 2-3 bedroom Cape Cods ALL OVER THE PLACE in Cincinnati. Nobody wants to live in them but the market isn't motivating tear-downs outside of Maedeira and a handful of wealthy east side neighborhoods. Cincinnati also has tons and tons of small multi-families owned by local landlords. Again, I wouldn't hesitate to estimate that Cincinnati has 2x as many 2-4 family dwellings as Columbus. Columbus is going to need more new construction to keep growing and so housing prices will get much higher even if the metro is only 5-10% larger than Cincinnati. Small-time investors can't build multi-families profitably, so Columbus could run into a housing crisis situation in short order. I think there could definitely be a coming crisis in the Columbus housing market, especially at the lower end. I actually think some of the postwar 60s-70s areas that have become very cheap in the last 20 years (Forest Park, Northland) will be desirable once again before some of the prewar neighborhoods like the Hilltop or South Linden A lot of the houses in those two neighborhoods specifically have had a million dogs in them for 50 years and you CANNOT get the smell to go away.
March 22, 20187 yr In terms of the population changes in Cuyahoga County and greater cleveland, a couple thoughts: First, these are estimates, so take all this with a very big grain of salt. Second, Cuyahoga county’s population loss is accelerating. Looking strictly at population changes from the previous year, here is Cuyahoga County: 2016-2017: -4940 2015-2016: -4503 2014-2015: -4502 2013-2014: -2163 2012-2013: -1588 2011-2012: -4251 2010-2011: -7739 In the greater cleveland region, however (cleveland-Elyria-mentor), population loss has been slowing in the most recent years. 2016-2017: -1221 2015-2016: -2777 2014-2015: -3385 2013-2014: +384 2012-2013: +1133 2011-2012: -4280 2010-2011: -6566
March 22, 20187 yr A lot of the houses in those two neighborhoods specifically have had a million dogs in them for 50 years and you CANNOT get the smell to go away. I have read posts by some real estate investors who favor buying buildings of 1-bedroom apartments over 2-bedrooms and small houses for this reason alone. It's impossible to keep tenants from keeping pets but if you have really small units they're less likely to do it. The other thing -- few 1-bedroom apartments have kids in them and kids REALLY tear a place up.
March 22, 20187 yr The numbers aren't fully out yet, but Cuyahoga County made the top 10 list... for biggest numeric population decrease. 2016: 1,253,45 2017: 1,248,514 Change: -4,940 This was the 3rd largest county decrease in the nation. Your hatred for Cleveland shows every time you talk about the place. I get it you go back and forth with several Cleveland posters on other sites, but again, I don't get why you talk so negatively about a city you know literally nothing about. I'm still waiting to hear about this. And if you don't think this post I quoted you in doesn't reek of being smart, try reading it from an outsiders perspective. "Made a top 10 list..." Don't troll, it doesn't look good. At the time I posted it, it was the only Ohio-related information available. And I just stated a fact, I did not go into some anti-Cleveland rant. Jesus you guys are sensitive. Chill out. Not being sensitive at all. That's just the typical Columbus attitude towards anything Cleveland, and your reputation proceeds you. At this point, it's expected out of you. Go back and read what you said. You certainly worded it to make a negative point towards Cleveland. Try again.
March 22, 20187 yr The numbers aren't fully out yet, but Cuyahoga County made the top 10 list... for biggest numeric population decrease. 2016: 1,253,45 2017: 1,248,514 Change: -4,940 This was the 3rd largest county decrease in the nation. Your hatred for Cleveland shows every time you talk about the place. I get it you go back and forth with several Cleveland posters on other sites, but again, I don't get why you talk so negatively about a city you know literally nothing about. I'm still waiting to hear about this. And if you don't think this post I quoted you in doesn't reek of being smart, try reading it from an outsiders perspective. "Made a top 10 list..." Don't troll, it doesn't look good. At the time I posted it, it was the only Ohio-related information available. And I just stated a fact, I did not go into some anti-Cleveland rant. Jesus you guys are sensitive. Chill out. Not being sensitive at all. That's just the typical Columbus attitude towards anything Cleveland, and your reputation proceeds you. At this point, it's expected out of you. Go back and read what you said. You certainly worded it to make a negative point towards Cleveland. Try again. The numbers aren't fully out yet, but Cuyahoga County made the top 10 list... for biggest numeric population decrease. 2016: 1,253,45 2017: 1,248,514 Change: -4,940 This was the 3rd largest county decrease in the nation. Your hatred for Cleveland shows every time you talk about the place. I get it you go back and forth with several Cleveland posters on other sites, but again, I don't get why you talk so negatively about a city you know literally nothing about. I'm still waiting to hear about this. And if you don't think this post I quoted you in doesn't reek of being smart, try reading it from an outsiders perspective. "Made a top 10 list..." Don't troll, it doesn't look good. At the time I posted it, it was the only Ohio-related information available. And I just stated a fact, I did not go into some anti-Cleveland rant. Jesus you guys are sensitive. Chill out. Not being sensitive at all. That's just the typical Columbus attitude towards anything Cleveland, and your reputation proceeds you. At this point, it's expected out of you. Go back and read what you said. You certainly worded it to make a negative point towards Cleveland. Try again. Yeah you are being sensitive. Let it go. Nobody went off the deep end at the Cleveland posters who jokingly posted right before the actual info came out. Leave the city vs city stuff out of it("typical Columbus attitude towards anything Cleveland"). Do you want to get this thread shut down because you don't like the info? Geez.
March 22, 20187 yr The numbers aren't fully out yet, but Cuyahoga County made the top 10 list... for biggest numeric population decrease. 2016: 1,253,45 2017: 1,248,514 Change: -4,940 This was the 3rd largest county decrease in the nation. Your hatred for Cleveland shows every time you talk about the place. I get it you go back and forth with several Cleveland posters on other sites, but again, I don't get why you talk so negatively about a city you know literally nothing about. I'm still waiting to hear about this. And if you don't think this post I quoted you in doesn't reek of being smart, try reading it from an outsiders perspective. "Made a top 10 list..." Don't troll, it doesn't look good. At the time I posted it, it was the only Ohio-related information available. And I just stated a fact, I did not go into some anti-Cleveland rant. Jesus you guys are sensitive. Chill out. Not being sensitive at all. That's just the typical Columbus attitude towards anything Cleveland, and your reputation proceeds you. At this point, it's expected out of you. Go back and read what you said. You certainly worded it to make a negative point towards Cleveland. Try again. The numbers aren't fully out yet, but Cuyahoga County made the top 10 list... for biggest numeric population decrease. 2016: 1,253,45 2017: 1,248,514 Change: -4,940 This was the 3rd largest county decrease in the nation. Your hatred for Cleveland shows every time you talk about the place. I get it you go back and forth with several Cleveland posters on other sites, but again, I don't get why you talk so negatively about a city you know literally nothing about. I'm still waiting to hear about this. And if you don't think this post I quoted you in doesn't reek of being smart, try reading it from an outsiders perspective. "Made a top 10 list..." Don't troll, it doesn't look good. At the time I posted it, it was the only Ohio-related information available. And I just stated a fact, I did not go into some anti-Cleveland rant. Jesus you guys are sensitive. Chill out. Not being sensitive at all. That's just the typical Columbus attitude towards anything Cleveland, and your reputation proceeds you. At this point, it's expected out of you. Go back and read what you said. You certainly worded it to make a negative point towards Cleveland. Try again. Yeah you are being sensitive. Let it go. Nobody went off the deep end at the Cleveland posters who jokingly posted right before the actual info came out. Leave the city vs city stuff out of it("typical Columbus attitude towards anything Cleveland"). Do you want to get this thread shut down because you don't like the info? Geez. I asked a question. If you didn't like it, it's easy, you don't have to respond. I asked a specific question to one forumer, not you, so heed your own advice and just let it go. The one poster before that was obviously posting nonsense and seems to be new, best to ignore it. But the way the next Cleveland post came about "in the top 10...", I mean come on, it's been known this poster has had a problem with Cleveland for a very long time. This is a thread comparing the population numbers in Ohio, so we can talk about all areas. It's not city vs city. I have stuck up and posted positively for all areas of Ohio, including Columbus in forums where YOU yourself post. I get annoyed with certain posters who bring their posting habits from other sites here who feel the need to put down Cleveland because they get into pi$$ing contests with posters elsewhere. What info is not to like? I am not from any of the areas being discussed. The way the wording went in which some intentional motive seemed to be at play.
March 22, 20187 yr ^^ You said "THE typical Columbus attitude towards anything Cleveland" in your response to him, not "YOUR typical Columbus attitude towards anything Cleveland" or something like that. He did not attack you-he just posted some info, and explained why he posted it when questioned. You personally attacked him. It was uncalled for.
March 22, 20187 yr Not to wade into this, but "top 10" lists are the way the Census Bureau released stats at midnight, the full data wasn't available yet till later this morning. I don't think it was worded that way as an intentional slight. That press release is here - https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/popest-metro-county.html The only mention of Ohio on the whole page is Cuyahoga County ranking #3 for numeric decrease
March 22, 20187 yr http://www.dispatch.com/news/20180322/columbus-metro-area-now-bigger-than-that-of-cleveland-and-gaining-on-cincinnati/1 New census estimates released Thursday say the growing Columbus metro area now has more people than the Cleveland metro area. The score: Columbus, 2,078,725 over Cleveland, 2,058,844. The five-fastest growing counties (on a YoY % basis) are all in central Ohio. I didn't know we were doing THAT well, especially Madison and Fairfield. I do see a ton of warehouses going up on U.S. 40 in Madison County. I agree about Madison....there are very few houses being built out here. That was a big surprise. And yeah, The West Jeff business park has expanded (I live fairly close to it) but there have only been a few homes built near the High school in the last ten years in the area. Just a couple dozen. And London has not built that much either in the last few years. I still don't know where Franklin County is putting 21,000 new people a year either.
March 22, 20187 yr If population keeps going down, why does real estate keep going up? Household sizes are decreasing
March 22, 20187 yr Not to wade into this, but "top 10" lists are the way the Census Bureau released stats at midnight, the full data wasn't available yet till later this morning. I don't think it was worded that way as an intentional slight. That press release is here - https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/popest-metro-county.html The only mention of Ohio on the whole page is Cuyahoga County ranking #3 for numeric decrease Keep in mind that these census figures are only measuring people, not jobs. People moving from Ohio to Florida or Arizona when they retire doesn't indicate the health of the local economies as well as job growth. However, recent business growth data puts Columbus and Cincinnati far ahead of many cities with cities that are growing more quickly, esp Florida and Arizona. Cleveland again lags well behind Columbus and Cincinnati in this more important category. Cleveland (and the rest of Ohio) isn't going to win the battle for retirees. More people will always retire southward as opposed to the opposite. That population doesn't matter so much to the long-term vitality of the state as does business growth, which does attract people here.
March 22, 20187 yr Household sizes are decreasing A married couple with kids occupies one house. A divorced couple occupies a house and an apartment, or two apartments.
March 23, 20187 yr If population keeps going down, why does real estate keep going up? Household sizes are decreasing That alone doesn't suggest we're gaining households, not enough of them to alter the housing market. And migration data suggests we aren't gaining many households at all. And yet we hear of home values skyrocketing, of buyers showing up with sacks of cash the moment homes go on sale. Who are these people? I wish they'd open some businesses here, with their sacks of cash.
March 23, 20187 yr Home value increases are specific to certain neighborhoods. Household size decreases coupled with no or little new inventory in demand areas increases values.
March 23, 20187 yr If population keeps going down, why does real estate keep going up? Household sizes are decreasing That alone doesn't suggest we're gaining households, not enough of them to alter the housing market. And migration data suggests we aren't gaining many households at all. And yet we hear of home values skyrocketing, of buyers showing up with sacks of cash the moment homes go on sale. Who are these people? I wish they'd open some businesses here, with their sacks of cash. Let's look at actual data from the Census' 1-year American Community Survey. Total households in Cuyahoga County: 2016: 534,355 2015: 532,752 2014: 535,295 2013: 535,088 2012: 529,284 2011: 533,756 2010: 529,942 2009: 532,369 2008: 534,705 2007: 537,492 2006: 538,609 What I think is interesting is that there was a clear and consistent trend downward through 2010 and then the data starts bumping around. This despite a clear and consistent trend downward of total population.
March 23, 20187 yr Of note, the year-over-year growth total for Franklin County looks to be the highest of all time. I have yearly growth totals going back to 1970, and there was no other year close. Before that, growth rates were generally much slower. The metro's more than 31K growth total also appears to be the highest on record, at least in a year when metro area limits didn't add counties. The TAMU site has all counties' data going back to 1970. It will likely be a week or so before these are added to it though.
March 23, 20187 yr If population keeps going down, why does real estate keep going up? Household sizes are decreasing That alone doesn't suggest we're gaining households, not enough of them to alter the housing market. And migration data suggests we aren't gaining many households at all. And yet we hear of home values skyrocketing, of buyers showing up with sacks of cash the moment homes go on sale. Who are these people? I wish they'd open some businesses here, with their sacks of cash. Let's look at actual data from the Census' 1-year American Community Survey. Total households in Cuyahoga County: 2016: 534,355 2015: 532,752 2014: 535,295 2013: 535,088 2012: 529,284 2011: 533,756 2010: 529,942 2009: 532,369 2008: 534,705 2007: 537,492 2006: 538,609 What I think is interesting is that there was a clear and consistent trend downward through 2010 and then the data starts bumping around. This despite a clear and consistent trend downward of total population. Shouldn't households be a better barometer of growth than population? Elsewhere on this site, it was pointed out that the reduction in family size alone can account for about half of the population slide in Cleveland and other places. If more households are forming, but the are one or two-person, isn't that just as good?
March 23, 20187 yr Not to wade into this, but "top 10" lists are the way the Census Bureau released stats at midnight, the full data wasn't available yet till later this morning. I don't think it was worded that way as an intentional slight. That press release is here - https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2018/popest-metro-county.html The only mention of Ohio on the whole page is Cuyahoga County ranking #3 for numeric decrease Yep, thanks. Don't know why people fly off the handle about this stuff.
May 24, 20187 yr Ohio city census came out today. https://www.ohio.com/akron/news/local/census-bureau-finds-five-of-ohios-largest-cities-growing-akron-slows-population-loss "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 24, 20187 yr Census: Population tops 300K again in Cincinnati, surges in most suburbs Cincinnati's population is over 300,000 for the first time in more than a decade, according to U.S. Census estimates released Thursday. The city barely made it with an estimated population last year of 301,301, but the increase is part of a trend that has seen Cincinnati's numbers edge up each year since 2011. The Census estimates, which come out every year, show the city's population has increased about 4,500, or 1.5 percent, since the 2010 Census. More below: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2018/05/24/cincinnati-population-census-estimates-say-its-over-300-000-again/638122002/ "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 24, 20187 yr Ohio city census came out today. https://www.ohio.com/akron/news/local/census-bureau-finds-five-of-ohios-largest-cities-growing-akron-slows-population-loss Yikes. That's a pretty bleak graphic ??? . But, yay for Cincy and Cbus!
May 24, 20187 yr Frankly I am amazed that Cincinnati's population has increased, given all of the demolitions of apartment buildings that have occurred in the last few years. We likely lost 500 units along MLK alone for the widening near Good Sam and the I-71 interchange.
May 24, 20187 yr We'll have to wait until 2022 to see what the 2020 census says. ACS estimates are interesting, but can be subject to major corrections in census years.
May 24, 20187 yr In the last 20 years, it just seems like Cincy and Columbus have been carrying Ohio In this context (population trends), Columbus has been pulling people from the rest of Ohio over the last 20 years. Though one could argue that if those people weren't able to go to Columbus, they may have instead moved out of state. Hard to prove or disprove a counterfactual.
May 24, 20187 yr In the last 20 years, it just seems like Cincy and Columbus have been carrying Ohio Since the 2000 census, the state population has grown by ~305,000. The Columbus metro area alone has grown by well over 500,000 in that same time. Very Stable Genius
May 24, 20187 yr We'll have to wait until 2022 to see what the 2020 census says. ACS estimates are interesting, but can be subject to major corrections in census years. This is true, though I'd note that the ACS methodology has gotten better over time. Also each year they revise the numbers for years prior and they usually become more accurate. So the 2012 and 2013 numbers released in 2017 should be more accurate than they were when they were originally released.
May 24, 20187 yr Why Do Americans Stay When Their Town Has No Future? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-05-23/why-do-americans-stay-when-their-town-has-no-future Related to the population and economic trends in Ohio (specifically Adams County), I thought this was a super interesting read. When silver mining cities in Nevada became ghost towns that made sense, so should we let the coal towns in Southeast Ohio or West Virginia die as well? To me the money quote is "There’s support on the left for public investment in struggling areas, but less so, he says, when it comes to communities that are increasingly voting Republican and whose decline is linked to fossil fuels. On the right, he says, there’s no appetite for public investment, period." It's clear that many Ohioan's ARE leaving the smaller and more post-industrial cities to either Columbus or leaving the state entirely, as shown in the census today.
May 24, 20187 yr In the last 20 years, it just seems like Cincy and Columbus have been carrying Ohio Since the 2000 census, the state population has grown by ~305,000. The Columbus metro area alone has grown by well over 500,000 in that same time. I think it was in this thread that I went over the numbers, but Columbus only has a positive domestic migration due to in-migration from the rest of Ohio. Then you have births and foreign migration to boost that a bit, but the relationship with Ohio is clear: Columbus's gain is the rest of the state's loss.
May 24, 20187 yr I was up in Cleveland years ago and it just seemed like people from NE Ohio, more Akron/Canton/Youngstown were going to Columbus to seek more opportunity. You did not see as many people from Cincinnati matriculate to Columbus as you saw people in the NE Ohio area and even Toledo move that direction.
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