3 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

Yeah, so why not regionalize and potentially have access to a greater pool of money and resources?

 

Gary and Akron aren't alike in any way, so no use comparing them. It's silly and pointless.

 

Gary and Akron ARE alike, it's just one fall hard and the other was successful.  Both are rustbelt, manufacturing cities in Midwestern states that had different paths.  I don't know why that would be considered "silly."  What would be "silly" is if I compared Cleveland to, say, Vancouver.

 

And as stated by another forumer, there hasn't been shown any benefits from merging into MSA and having a greater pool of money and resources.  If you can show me an example of a secondary city benefiting from a merger into a larger MSA and getting more money and resources out of it, then I'll re-evaulate.  Otherwise, it would be, as you said, silly and pointless.

14 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

 

And as stated by another forumer, there hasn't been shown any benefits from merging into MSA and having a greater pool of money and resources.  If you can show me an example of a secondary city benefiting from a merger into a larger MSA and getting more money and resources out of it, then I'll re-evaulate.  Otherwise, it would be, as you said, silly and pointless.

 

Do you have any examples of secondary cities getting less money and resources? Like I said, pointless.

Edited April 27, 20205 yr by Clefan98

6 minutes ago, westakron1 said:

I'll be honest , this situation has always confused me becuase as I understand it Summit & Cuyahoga already meets the MSA commuting threshold, as do Stark & Summit.  Is this true?  I know that where I live in West Akron I have neighbors who work in both Cuyahoga and Stark County.  While I understand the Mayor of Akron's apprehension to this proposed meger, if done wisely regionalism is the way to go IMHO. 

I believe Summit and Stark meets the threshold but not Summit and Cuyahoga.The governments threshold is 25 percent, Summit and Cuyohoga counties are at about 18 percent whereas Summit and Stark are at about 39 percent. Summit and Stark both have many  employers in relatively close proximity, even from West Akron to the Canton area by way of interstate 77is a breeze. Also I would guess that with the opening of the Amazon warehouse not far from 76 or 77 that the Akron/Canton commute will be even higher.

Everyone knows NEO runs the state - make it official!

Edited April 27, 20205 yr by Clefan98

18 minutes ago, Clefan98 said:

 

Do you have any examples of secondary cities getting less money and resources? Like I said, pointless.

 

So you're arguing over nothing.  A Trump move, got it.

18 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

 

So you're arguing over nothing.  A Trump move, got it.

 

And you're worrying/arguing about something that has less than a 0% impact on you. Another Trump move, get it.

Edited April 27, 20205 yr by Clefan98

33 minutes ago, vulcana said:

I believe Summit and Stark meets the threshold but not Summit and Cuyahoga.The governments threshold is 25 percent, Summit and Cuyohoga counties are at about 18 percent whereas Summit and Stark are at about 39 percent. Summit and Stark both have many  employers in relatively close proximity, even from West Akron to the Canton area by way of interstate 77is a breeze. Also I would guess that with the opening of the Amazon warehouse not far from 76 or 77 that the Akron/Canton commute will be even higher.

Yes, I can be in either county in 20 minutes.  Thanks for the numbers. So I wonder if we would see a Akron-Canton meger sooner? 

A relevant quote from an old article from when Springfield left the Dayton MSA:

 

Quote

The changes [Clark County leaving the MSA] took effect Jan. 1, but local and national experts say the smaller MSAs will have little impact on economic development efforts or how much government funding the region receives. There are several ways to determine the size and scope of a region, and MSAs are notoriously incomplete, experts said.

 

The Office of Management and Budget, a White House agency that determines MSAs nationally, said the area shrunk because of a dwindling number of commuters between Clark County and the other counties.

 

"The change is irrelevant," said Robert Sawyer, regional director for the U.S. Economic Development Administration.

He said his office uses data that is specific to a certain area or city to guide the EDA's development programs rather than the often broader-based MSA figures.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/stories/2005/02/28/story7.html

 

Doesn't sound like the federal government gives much of a crap about MSAs, anyway.

In this regard i would say that Summit and Stark are interlinked. I would think if Stark is combined that the rest of Wayne county, which has Wooster, should be as well. Currently Doylestown and Rittman are in Amats MPO.  But there is a lot of traffic going back and forth from Akron to Wooster. 
  

3 hours ago, Clefan98 said:

Everyone knows NEO runs the state

Honestly, these kinds of comments by NE Ohioans are just sad.

11 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

 

I'm not sure Akron would get more federal dollars. Most programs are allocated on a per capita basis. Say the Akron MSA gets $1 million from a certain program and the Cleveland MSA gets $3 million. The new combined MSA would get $4 million from that program. The total amount of money is the same. I can't think of any federal programs that scale up with metro size. I could be wrong though.

 

There are federal transit programs that are available to larger metros, but the separate transit systems would have to unite under a common umbrella organization, such as NEO-Ride, in order to maximize the benefits. 

On 4/26/2020 at 10:33 AM, Brutus_buckeye said:

If this were to happen, I wonder from a regional view if it would ultimately hurt Columbus. Cleveland MSA would vault back to No 1 in Ohio, Cincinnati would be 2 (especially if they merge with Dayton) and Columbus would fall behind at 3.  Does that limit Columbus strength some when the peer cities in Ohio become top 20 metros through such a merger

 

The Cleveland and Cincinnati cities and MSAs were larger than Columbus for most of the past 200 years. 

 

In any case, unless Cleveland and Akron meet the MSA guidelines, it's not going to happen regardless of who wants it.  Even if they were added, I'm not sure how it helps attract people.  It's not organic growth through attraction domestically or internationally.  It's just incorporating more existing area.  It might help with federal dollar allocation, but what else really changes?  It would be 1 year of big growth followed immediately by the typical out-migration that's been the case for the past 60 years because none of the problems that cause out migration in the first place would be fixed. This would essentially be a temporary ego booster to claim to be the biggest, but otherwise meaningless.  Chicago is the biggest city and metro in the Midwest.  It is not anywhere close to the fastest growing, nor has it prevented other cities in the region from  growing.

Edited April 28, 20205 yr by jonoh81

7 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

 

The Cleveland and Cincinnati cities and MSAs were larger than Columbus for most of the past 200 years. 

 

In any case, unless Cleveland and Akron meet the MSA guidelines, it's not going to happen regardless of who wants it.  Even if they were added, I'm not sure how it helps attract people.  It's not organic growth through attraction domestically or internationally.  It's just incorporating more existing area.  It might help with federal dollar allocation, but what else really changes?  It would be 1 year of big growth followed immediately by the typical out-migration that's been the case for the past 60 years because none of the problems that cause out migration in the first place would be fixed. This would essentially be a temporary ego booster to claim to be the biggest, but otherwise meaningless.  Chicago is the biggest city and metro in the Midwest.  It is not anywhere close to the fastest growing, nor has it prevented other cities in the region from  growing.

it does not really matter for population growth. I think it has more to do with capital being attracted to a specific region. If you are sitting in an office in Hong Kong or even New York (in a bubble) and you want to invest a concept into a top 20 market and only look to the top 20 market it may open up Cleveland to such opportunity at that point. It will not increase Cleveland's population directly, but theoretically, it could act as a catalyst to spur growth down the line. Does it change the dynamics of attracting say an Amazon HQ2 to Cleveland, probably not. It would be a much smaller scale, imo. 

18 hours ago, audidave said:

Well apparently they technically meet the requirements of the 25% commute?  There certainly is a lot of traffic that goes between the two cities throughout the day on I-77.  

 

According to LEHD data, 19% of Summit County commuters work in Cuyahoga County. And 4.7% of Cuyahoga County commuters work in Summit. 

 

I'm not sure 25% is the number though. That's been said here, but I haven't seen any documentation. I found some old Census documentation that says 15%, but I don't know if the formula has been changed? Also, Bracken County, KY is in the Cincinnati MSA despite having very little commuting flow to any of the core MSA counties. 

 

Edit to tag @westakron1 so they see this.

Edited April 28, 20205 yr by DEPACincy

9 hours ago, KJP said:

 

There are federal transit programs that are available to larger metros, but the separate transit systems would have to unite under a common umbrella organization, such as NEO-Ride, in order to maximize the benefits. 

 

Right, but the transit systems aren't going to do that. To go back to my Philly/Wilmington analogy, within the Philly MSA you have SEPTA, PATCO, NJ Transit, and DART. Four transit systems for one metro. Merging transit systems is A LOT harder than adding counties to an MSA.

5 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

According to LEHD data, 19% of Summit County commuters work in Cuyahoga County. And 4.7% of Cuyahoga County commuters work in Summit. 

 

I'm not sure 25% is the number though. That's been said here, but I haven't seen any documentation. I found some old Census documentation that says 15%, but I don't know if the formula has been changed? Also, Bracken County, KY is in the Cincinnati MSA despite having very little commuting flow to any of the core MSA counties. 

 

Edit to tag @westakron1 so they see this.

 

 

"A county qualifies as an outlying county of a CBSA if it meets the following commuting requirements: (a) At least 25 percent of the workers living in the county work in the central county or counties of the CBSA; or (b) At least 25 percent of the employment in the county is accounted for by workers who reside in the central county or counties of the CBSA."

 

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2010-06-28/pdf/2010-15605.pdf

6 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said:

 

 

"A county qualifies as an outlying county of a CBSA if it meets the following commuting requirements: (a) At least 25 percent of the workers living in the county work in the central county or counties of the CBSA; or (b) At least 25 percent of the employment in the county is accounted for by workers who reside in the central county or counties of the CBSA."

 

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2010-06-28/pdf/2010-15605.pdf

 

Awesome, thanks! So Summit and Cuyahoga don't meet the threshold. But also, Bracken County, KY shouldn't be in the Cincy MSA either, yet it is. Clear as mud haha.

Do they have a lot of people commuting to Campbell County? I bet Campbell and Kenton are counted as "core counties" since they're basically the southern extension of downtown.

19 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

Awesome, thanks! So Summit and Cuyahoga don't meet the threshold. But also, Bracken County, KY shouldn't be in the Cincy MSA either, yet it is. Clear as mud haha.

I was referring to Summit county and Stark county meeting the 25% as Akron is looking to make it an Akron-Canton metroplex if you read a bit higher in the thread. 

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

it does not really matter for population growth. I think it has more to do with capital being attracted to a specific region. If you are sitting in an office in Hong Kong or even New York (in a bubble) and you want to invest a concept into a top 20 market and only look to the top 20 market it may open up Cleveland to such opportunity at that point. It will not increase Cleveland's population directly, but theoretically, it could act as a catalyst to spur growth down the line. Does it change the dynamics of attracting say an Amazon HQ2 to Cleveland, probably not. It would be a much smaller scale, imo. 

 

I would argue that if you're someone sitting in a Hong Kong office ready to pump millions or billions into a foreign country/city, you're going to do your homework on where the best places to do that would be.  Simply having more historic name recognition doesn't really pass the smell test as the single most important criteria a multi-national company would look at.  If it did, Cleveland has LONG had more name recognition than Columbus, probably even now with Columbus passing Cleveland's MSA.  It hasn't seemed to matter most of the last half century, though, in terms of trajectory.  A company like Amazon would probably not care that Cleveland's MSA boundaries increased.  It would care about the economic climate, distribution chains, the ability to attract talent, amenities, etc.  

Edited April 28, 20205 yr by jonoh81

1 hour ago, DEPACincy said:

 

According to LEHD data, 19% of Summit County commuters work in Cuyahoga County. And 4.7% of Cuyahoga County commuters work in Summit. 

 

I'm not sure 25% is the number though. That's been said here, but I haven't seen any documentation. I found some old Census documentation that says 15%, but I don't know if the formula has been changed? Also, Bracken County, KY is in the Cincinnati MSA despite having very little commuting flow to any of the core MSA counties. 

 

Edit to tag @westakron1 so they see this.

Thank you, these are numbers I remember seeing becasue there were posts about the legal threshold being close Cuyahoga and Summit. I do wonder if Akron/Summit can resist or if it's simply cut and dry on commuting pattern %s? I guess if it was then Akron and Canton would already be a combined metro. 

25 minutes ago, westakron1 said:

Thank you, these are numbers I remember seeing becasue there were posts about the legal threshold being close Cuyahoga and Summit. I do wonder if Akron/Summit can resist or if it's simply cut and dry on commuting pattern %s? I guess if it was then Akron and Canton would already be a combined metro. 

Bracken countys situation is not a good comparison to Akron/ Cleveland MSA scenario because Akron is already a Metropolitan area whereas Bracken county is only a small outlying county in the Cincinnati  Metro area. So trying to add another Metro into yours is a totally different scenario than having an outlying county added. Also Akron and Cantons commuting percentage is much greater in 2020 than it was in 2010, whereas Summit and Cuyahoga county has decreased slightly or remained stagnant at best. And I would add its not Akron/Summits resistance but Akron and Cantons agreement that might rule the day .Will be interesting to see....

1 hour ago, jonoh81 said:

 

I would argue that if you're someone sitting in a Hong Kong office ready to pump millions or billions into a foreign country/city, you're going to do your homework on where the best places to do that would be.  Simply having more historic name recognition doesn't really pass the smell test as the single most important criteria a multi-national company would look at.  If it did, Cleveland has LONG had more name recognition than Columbus, probably even now with Columbus passing Cleveland's MSA.  It hasn't seemed to matter most of the last half century, though, in terms of trajectory.  A company like Amazon would probably not care that Cleveland's MSA boundaries increased.  It would care about the economic climate, distribution chains, the ability to attract talent, amenities, etc.  

 

 

We're ALL from Cleveland if you ask someone from overseas!

2 hours ago, audidave said:

I was referring to Summit county and Stark county meeting the 25% as Akron is looking to make it an Akron-Canton metroplex if you read a bit higher in the thread. 

 

Oh, I know. I didn't mean to direct that at you. Sorry for the confusion.

42 minutes ago, vulcana said:

Bracken countys situation is not a good comparison to Akron/ Cleveland MSA scenario because Akron is already a Metropolitan area whereas Bracken county is only a small outlying county in the Cincinnati  Metro area. So trying to add another Metro into yours is a totally different scenario than having an outlying county added. Also Akron and Cantons commuting percentage is much greater in 2020 than it was in 2010, whereas Summit and Cuyahoga county has decreased slightly or remained stagnant at best. And I would add its not Akron/Summits resistance but Akron and Cantons agreement that might rule the day .Will be interesting to see....

 

But it seems that, based on the criteria shared here, Bracken County still does not meet the threshold.

2 hours ago, BigDipper 80 said:

Do they have a lot of people commuting to Campbell County? I bet Campbell and Kenton are counted as "core counties" since they're basically the southern extension of downtown.

 

Nope, I considered that. If you add up all the people commuting from Bracken to Campbell, Kenton, Boone, Clermont, Hamilton, Warren, and Butler it still doesn't hit 25%. And if you add all the people commuting from all those counties to Bracken, it's not even close to 25% either. 

20 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

 

So you're arguing over nothing.  An Internet Trump move, got it.

 

FTFY. ?

 

===========================

 

More serious question about the statistical methodology for work "accounted for" or workers. 

 

My old law firm was headquartered in Akron.  We also had an office in Cleveland.  Several of our partners and employees who lived in Richfield, and at least one from Hudson (both on the northern border of Summit County), had the Cleveland office as their main office, even though it wasn't the main office of the firm.

 

Do they count in the 25% cross-commuting/cross-"accounted for" quota(s)?

3 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

 

I would argue that if you're someone sitting in a Hong Kong office ready to pump millions or billions into a foreign country/city, you're going to do your homework on where the best places to do that would be.  Simply having more historic name recognition doesn't really pass the smell test as the single most important criteria a multi-national company would look at.  If it did, Cleveland has LONG had more name recognition than Columbus, probably even now with Columbus passing Cleveland's MSA.  It hasn't seemed to matter most of the last half century, though, in terms of trajectory.  A company like Amazon would probably not care that Cleveland's MSA boundaries increased.  It would care about the economic climate, distribution chains, the ability to attract talent, amenities, etc.  

You do your homework but when you are choosing 3 markets and you have 100 to choose from, you don't go deep into the weeds of all 100 markets so you just immediately make an arbitrary decision and lop off the bottom 80 markets and only study the top 10-20 markets. While they could miss the diamond in the rough on some of them, they recognize it is not worth their time to study them in depth as much. It essentially means getting a look and study vs not even being invited to the party. 

Edited April 28, 20205 yr by Brutus_buckeye

6 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

You do your homework but when you are choosing 3 markets and you have 100 to choose from, you don't go deep into the weeds of all 100 markets so you just immediately make an arbitrary decision and lop off the bottom 80 markets and only study the top 10-20 markets. While they could miss the diamond in the rough on some of them, they recognize it is not worth their time to study them in depth as much. It essentially means getting a look and study vs not even being invited to the party. 

I think this "top 20" is very arbitrary. Why not look at the top 40 instead. By "top 20" they would miss hot spots like Austin, Nashville, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, etc. What makes you so sure that Cleveland will be so much better off over such an arbitrary rating bases completely off of metro population size? 

 

This rationale is just bizarre and seems like a way to justify Cleveland somehow really needing to move into the top 20 of metro areas in population. I don't think it is that serious. If Cleveland is in the top 20 is it really going to change the perceptions of the city good or bad?

 

Until the relevant government agency decides that the criteria are met to make the changes it ain't gonna happen anyway so why even ponder it?

Edited April 28, 20205 yr by Toddguy

Is there any downside to most of NEO merging into a single MSA? If it's just for Cleveland to get access to funding that Akron already gets, then I can see why Akron would be against it. But if it increases the total pie then it seems like a no-brainer.

 

Regarding the ranking in public perception, I doubt many companies draw an arbitrary line in the sand at the top X MSAs. The ones that don't will continue to do their research regardless of ranking. The (very) few that do might include the Cleveland area when they wouldn't have otherwise. No telling how many that "few" is without polling actual companies.

Edited April 28, 20205 yr by Mendo

Quote

I'm not sure 25% is the number though. That's been said here, but I haven't seen any documentation.

 

It's been mentioned on other city related sites as well. I have never read anything official, but it's been repeated a lot over years.

36 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

I think this "top 20" is very arbitrary. Why not look at the top 40 instead. By "top 20" they would miss hot spots like Austin, Nashville, Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, etc. What makes you so sure that Cleveland will be so much better off over such an arbitrary rating bases completely off of metro population size? 

 

This rationale is just bizarre and seems like a way to justify Cleveland somehow really needing to move into the top 20 of metro areas in population. I don't think it is that serious. If Cleveland is in the top 20 is it really going to change the perceptions of the city good or bad?

 

Until the relevant government agency decides that the criteria are met to make the changes it ain't gonna happen anyway so why even ponder it?

Of course it is arbitrary. There are no rules stating what the investor is going to look at, however, it is easy to have a hard cut off of top 10 or top 20 and just ignore the rest. 

1 minute ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Of course it is arbitrary. There are no rules stating what the investor is going to look at, however, it is easy to have a hard cut off of top 10 or top 20 and just ignore the rest. 

And miss out on boomtowns like Austin, Charlotte, Nashville, Raleigh-Durham, etc.?  Ok.

Just now, Toddguy said:

And miss out on boomtowns like Austin, Charlotte, Nashville, Raleigh-Durham, etc.?  Ok.

Some institutional investors do. They set their own criteria. I cant tell them what to look for. 

Quote

I'll post an update since there has been recent news regarding MSAs in Northeast Ohio. First, Akron-Canton business leaders announcing a plan a couple months ago to try to form their own MSA called the "Metroplex."

Now, there is a plan by NOACA that could try to get Cleveland-Akron-Canton all into one MSA. I've updated the spreadsheet I started a couple of years ago and added the 2016 and 2017 numbers (from onthemap).

As of the 2017 numbers, the flow between Summit County to Cuyahoga/Lorain (the two core counties in the Cleveland MSA) is now at 24.26 percent. That's up slightly from 2016 when it was 24.11 percent. Though it's interesting that the number from 2015 to 2016 dipped from 24.11 to 23.84, before then surging from 23.84 to the 24.26 it sits at now. Going back to 2002, though, there has been mostly a steady increase from 19.88 to the 24.26.

Between 2016 and 2017, there was an increase of 1,224 people commuting from Summit County to Cuyahoga/Lorain and an increase of 490 commuting from Cuyahoga/Lorain to Summit. So, bottom line is based on how MSAs are currently determined, it's likely that Cleveland and Akron would meet the threshold (over 25 percent on a three-year average) by the 2028 realignment.

The number of workers who cross commute between Summit and Cuyahoga has surpassed 70,000 to 70,490 ... 45,378 commute from Summit to Cuyahoga (19.16 percent) and 25,112 commute from Cuyahoga to Summit (4.7 percent). So, just Cuyahoga and Summit alone that adds up to 23.87 percent (so Lorain makes up a very small portion of getting the two close to 25 percent).

How close are Akron and Canton from meeting the MSA threshold? It's still a ways off (despite the popular assumption that Akron and Canton are more closely linked).

In 2015, the commuter flow between Stark and Summit County was at 19.8 percent (34,948 total with 11,710 from Summit to Stark and 23,238 from Stark to Summit). That is up to 20.54 percent in 2017 (36,723 with 12,349 from Summit to Stark and 24,374 from Stark to Summit). I don't doubt that there can be some political pull that would get those two into a combined MSA with enough local/state/federal political support, but the two areas are still about 4.5 percent away from technically meeting the standards.

In fact, Cleveland and Akron seem to be slightly growing closer together than what Akron and Canton are. ... and if Lake County didn't lose its core county designation in 2013, it would have reached 25 percent in the 2017 numbers (25.03)

Also, are now more total people from Cuyahoga County who commute to Summit County than those who commute from Stark to Summit. And there are about four times as many people who commute from Summit to Cuyahoga compared to those who commute from Summit to Stark.

Over the past two years, here is the numerical change between them:

Cuyahoga to Summit: +1,107
Stark to Summit: +1,046
Summit to Cuyahoga: +802
Summit to Stark: +639

It's close but that's a total gain of 1,909 between Cuyahoga/Summit and a gain of 1,685 between Summit/Stark.

However, I think those numbers are close enough where the NOACA plan of combining all three makes the most sense because the three are all interconnected. And if Cleveland-Akron were to organically merge into an MSA, Canton's overall commuting percent between (Lorain/Cuyahoga/Summit ... which would be the three core counties) would be 22.46 percent based off the 2017 numbers. Still falls short, but it's still closer than if Akron and Canton were to merge (22.46 vs. 20.54).

As for some other notes. When I started this thread a couple years ago, I speculated that Ashland County could potentially reach the 10 percent threshold to enter the CSA if Cleveland and Akron were to merge. That looks like it would be the case as the overall flow would be at 12.21 percent as of 2017.

It looked then like Youngstown-Warren would fall just short of joining the CSA, but now looks like they would join as the overall flow percentage is 10.35 percent between Trumbull/Mahoning and Cuyahoga/Summit/Lorain. ... Though if Canton were also to enter, that could get bumped up to I'm guessing 15-plus percent, but it would still fall well short of what would be needed for all four of the Northeast Ohio metros to qualify as one.

As for a Cincinnati-Dayton update, it looks like the two have now reached the 10 percent threshold that could lead to a CSA. The flow between Hamilton/Butler (the Cincinnati core counties) and Montgomery is up to 10.23 percent. If that stays, they should finally get the CSA status by 2023, though, they are still a ways off from ever becoming a combined MSA. I'm also not sure if that would lead to any additional counties also entering a Cincinnati-Dayton CSA.

I'll end with this. Here is the top 20 counties in total cross commuters:

1. Hamilton/Butler (Cincinnati MSA): 83,525 (42.79%)
2. Franklin/Delaware (Columbus MSA): 82,742 (61.18%)
3. Cuyahoga/Summit (Cleveland-Akron-Canton CSA): 70,490 (23.87%)
4. Cuyahoga/Lorain (Cleveland MSA): 62,955 (39.67%)
5. Cuyahoga/Lake (Cleveland MSA): 55,635 (39.53%)
6. Hamilton/Clermont (Cincinnati MSA): 51,509 (46.90%)
7. Hamilton/Warren (Cincinnati MSA): 42,632 (32.45%)
8. Montgomery/Greene (Dayton MSA): 40,534 (44.81%)
9. Franklin/Licking (Columbus MSA): 38,122 (40.20%)
10. Lucas/Wood (Toledo MSA): 38,014 (45.04%)
11. Franklin/Fairfield (Columbus MSA): 37,113 (48.28%)
12. Summit/Stark (Cleveland-Akron-Canton CSA): 36,723 (20.54%)
13. Cuyahoga/Medina (Cleveland MSA): 35,650 (34.99%)
14. Summit/Portage (Akron MSA): 29,212 (31.24%)
15. Mahoning/Trumbull (Youngstown MSA): 27,927 (33.32%)
16. Montgomery/Warren (no designation): 22,853 (17.92%)
17. Cuyahoga/Geauga (Cleveland MSA): 21,153 (42.78%)
18. Summit/Medina (Cleveland-Akron-Canton CSA): 19,922 (18.71%)
19. Cuyahoga/Portage (Cleveland-Akron-Canton CSA): 18,179 (21.15%)
20. Franklin/Union (Columbus MSA): 17,761 (39.13%)

Also:
Hamilton/Montgomery (no designation): 16,349 (6.45%)
Cuyahoga/Stark (Cleveland-Akron-Canton CSA): 11,517 (5.59%)

Interesting the four of the top 20 are in Northeast Ohio and aren't MSA counties ... and all four involve the Akron MSA counties (Summit, 3 and Portage, 1). Also, interesting the Montgomery/Warren is No. 16 and they aren't (yet) even in a CSA. BTW, if Warren were to be considered a core county, Cincinnati/Dayton's commuting percent would jump from 10.23 to 16.26, so still about 9 percent away from an MSA.

 

This is from the poster ClevelandBrown on they City-Data Forum. I hope this is allowed but this is a good post on the situation in NEO. 

Edited April 29, 20205 yr by westakron1

Its all very interesting how these numbers are computed. NOACA itself which is pursuing a Cleveland Akron/Canton Metro designation states that (currently) 17.7 percent of commuters from Summit/Portage or Akron Metro commute into the Cleveland Metro area , and that Akron metro commuters into Cuyahoga county is 14.6. That is far from the threshold of 25 percent. At the same time currently the Akron/Canton officials seeking a Akron/Canton Metroplex currently state there is a close to 40 percent commute of workers between the counties. I guess you could say the Census bureau will of course have to sort this out.. 

On 11/18/2019 at 3:32 PM, ColDayMan said:

 

Unlikely going to happen due to the Big Darby Creek watershed.

I know this was from a while ago, but I was just reading through this thread.  But, how far west does the Darby Accord go?  I decided to drive to West Jefferson recently to see all of the distribution centers that have been built and there are going to be more coming as central Ohio rises as a distribution hub.  I started wondering if that was west of the protected Darby watershed and we could expect to see development as a result of all of those distribution centers.  Then, you aren't too far east of Springfield.  So, I was wondering if you could eventually see more development that spans east from Springfield towards West Jefferson and Columbus and then just skips the watershed.

Edited May 10, 20205 yr by TH3BUDDHA

^ Since you also posed this question in the Madison County development thread and I just wrote an answer there, I'll just copy my reply below:

 

3 minutes ago, Columbo said:

 

If there isn't any future urban development between Columbus and Dayton/Springfield, it won't be because of the Big Darby Accord.

 

For one thing, the Big Darby Accord only applies to the western townships in Franklin County from the current western urban edge of Columbus and Hilliard to the county border of Franklin-Madison Counties (which happens to be the Big Darby Creek).  And even in those areas, the accord doesn't ban development - it manages it through additional regulation.

 

In the Big Darby Accord thread at https://forum.urbanohio.com/topic/1163-big-darby-accord-region-developments-and-news/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-889813, there were three residential/mixed-use developments proposed just last year.  One residential development site was annexed into Columbus.  Another mixed-use development was proposed to be annexed into Hilliard but was put on hold late last year over a disagreement about the developer's agreement with the city - https://forum.urbanohio.com/topic/417-hilliard-developments-and-news/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-935259.

 

But all of this warehouse development in Madison County, is not within the Big Darby Accord Region.  So there's nothing regulatory preventing additional development of this type or other types like residential from spreading west.  However, any residential development of a significant size would require modern sewer infrastructure, which would also need to be built.  So this is a limiting factor unless additional sewer capacity is provided by the City of London, or the villages of West Jefferson and Plain City, or some future Madison County Sewer District, to span the gap between Columbus and Springfield.

 

16 hours ago, TH3BUDDHA said:

I know this was from a while ago, but I was just reading through this thread.  But, how far west does the Darby Accord go?  I decided to drive to West Jefferson recently to see all of the distribution centers that have been built and there are going to be more coming as central Ohio rises as a distribution hub.  I started wondering if that was west of the protected Darby watershed and we could expect to see development as a result of all of those distribution centers.  Then, you aren't too far east of Springfield.  So, I was wondering if you could eventually see more development that spans east from Springfield towards West Jefferson and Columbus and then just skips the watershed.

Well first of all, may I extend my sympathies for you for having to experience West Jefferson lol. Anyways I think there will be "pockets of development" rather than any expansive development, particularly any that is residential IMO.. 

West Jefferson is extending water and sewer lines for all of these new warehouses, they required Batelle out here to get annexed into West Jefferson to get water and sewer for their expansion, and there is also expansion to the east towards Columbus that has happened for this planned development that has been in the works:  https://www.columbusmessenger.com/bids-in-for-utility-extension-to-kroger-sky-ranch.html .

This development(or some form of it)should bring hundreds of new housing units-depending now of course on what happens in this coronavirus economy.

 

Also West Jefferson village limits(still a village since slightly less than 5,000 are within the corporate limits)have expanded and extend all of the way east to west form 142 all the way to 42(which is the London exit from 70.)

 

Not sure if this has been posted before, but here's a live map of Ohio Census response numbers.

 

You can drill down by county and even by census track:

 

https://public.tableau.com/views/ResponseRateChallenge/CountyDashboard?:showVizHome=no&:tabs=n&State=Ohio&Select Mode=Total&Share

 

As of 5/12/2020, here are our large Ohio county response rates:

 

Summit: 67.7%

Mahoning: 63.5%

Montgomery: 62.7%

Hamilton: 61.1%

Cuyahoga: 60.2%

Franklin: 60.0%

Lucas: 59.6%

 

Edited May 12, 20205 yr by MuRrAy HiLL

^and in the city of cleveland, it is only 45.3%. Some of the Cleveland suburbs are in the high 70s.

 

For comparison: 

 

Columbus 56.0%, Cincinnati 50.6%

 

https://2020census.gov/en/response-rates.html

 

The Census Bureau has restarted field operations in some states. Ohio is not one of them yet.

Edited May 20, 20205 yr by Pugu

The Census Bureau came out with new numbers for city populations today.  Obviously yearly counts should be taken lightly, but these numbers are always interesting to look at.  

 

From 2018-2019 the numbers are as follows:

 

Columbus - 890,869...898,553 (the 13th best city in regards to numeric growth in the country)

 

Cleveland - 383,214...381,009

 

Cincinnati - 302,277...303,940 (now larger than peer river cities Pittsburgh and St. Louis)

 

Toledo - 274,864...272,779

 

Akron - 197,884...197,597

 

Dayton - 140,439...140,407

 

Parma - 78,622...78,103

 

Canton - 70,752...70,447

 

Youngstown - 64,860...65,469 (shown growing from 2016-2019. As a Mahoning Valley resident and being able to see the city limits from my kitchen window, I doubt these numbers)

 

Lorain - 63,984...63,855

 

Again, take these numbers with a grain of salt.  Yearly numbers as well all know tend to fluctuate wildly, but that still doesn't stop us from talking about it.

 

See the link with all the spreadsheets:

 

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2020/south-west-fastest-growing.html

 

 

Edited May 21, 20205 yr by MissinOhio

^I hope those Youngstown numbers are going in the right direction, but it does seem like a large jump.

 

You posted the 10 largest cities. Hamilton, now at 11th largest, has been estimated at levels just beyond 62,000 since 2010, when the decennial census landed at 62,477.

 

I will be curious to see where the 2020 census number actually land. There were certainly many older homes vacated and demolished at the beginning of the decade, but the end of the decade has seen the construction of ~60-80 single family homes each year, a couple multi-family projects, and more than 200 new downtown apartments.

The full list, FYI:

 

New York City, New York8,336,817

Los Angeles city, California3,979,576

Chicago city, Illinois2,693,976

Houston city, Texas2,320,268

Phoenix city, Arizona1,680,992

Philadelphia city, Pennsylvania1,584,064

San Antonio city, Texas1,547,253

San Diego city, California1,423,851

Dallas city, Texas1,343,573

San Jose city, California1,021,795

Austin city, Texas978,908

Jacksonville city, Florida911,507

Fort Worth city, Texas909,585

Columbus city, Ohio898,553

Charlotte city, North Carolina885,708

San Francisco city, California881,549

Indianapolis city (balance), Indiana876,384

Seattle city, Washington753,675

Denver city, Colorado727,211

Washington city, District of Columbia705,749

Boston city, Massachusetts692,600

El Paso city, Texas681,728

Nashville-Davidson metropolitan government (balance), Tennessee670,820

Detroit city, Michigan670,031

Oklahoma City city, Oklahoma655,057

Portland city, Oregon654,741

Las Vegas city, Nevada651,319

Memphis city, Tennessee651,073

Louisville/Jefferson County metro government (balance), Kentucky617,638

Baltimore city, Maryland593,490

Milwaukee city, Wisconsin590,157

Albuquerque city, New Mexico560,513

Tucson city, Arizona548,073

Fresno city, California531,576

Mesa city, Arizona518,012

Sacramento city, California513,624

Atlanta city, Georgia506,811

Kansas City city, Missouri495,327

Colorado Springs city, Colorado478,221

Omaha city, Nebraska478,192

Raleigh city, North Carolina474,069

Miami city, Florida467,963

Long Beach city, California462,628

Virginia Beach city, Virginia449,974

Oakland city, California433,031

Minneapolis city, Minnesota429,606

Tulsa city, Oklahoma401,190

Tampa city, Florida399,700

Arlington city, Texas398,854

New Orleans city, Louisiana390,144

Wichita city, Kansas389,938

Bakersfield city, California384,145

Cleveland city, Ohio381,009

Aurora city, Colorado379,289

Anaheim city, California350,365

Urban Honolulu CDP, Hawaii345,064

Santa Ana city, California332,318

Riverside city, California331,360

Corpus Christi city, Texas326,586

Lexington-Fayette urban county, Kentucky323,152

Henderson city, Nevada320,189

Stockton city, California312,697

St. Paul city, Minnesota308,096

Cincinnati city, Ohio303,940

St. Louis city, Missouri300,576

Pittsburgh city, Pennsylvania300,286

Greensboro city, North Carolina296,710

Lincoln city, Nebraska289,102

Anchorage municipality, Alaska288,000

Plano city, Texas287,677

Orlando city, Florida287,442

Irvine city, California287,401

Newark city, New Jersey282,011

Durham city, North Carolina278,993

Chula Vista city, California274,492

Toledo city, Ohio272,779

Fort Wayne city, Indiana270,402

St. Petersburg city, Florida265,351

Laredo city, Texas262,491

Jersey City city, New Jersey262,075

Chandler city, Arizona261,165

Madison city, Wisconsin259,680

Lubbock city, Texas258,862

Scottsdale city, Arizona258,069

Reno city, Nevada255,601

Buffalo city, New York255,284

Gilbert town, Arizona254,114

Glendale city, Arizona252,381

North Las Vegas city, Nevada251,974

Winston-Salem city, North Carolina247,945

Chesapeake city, Virginia244,835

Norfolk city, Virginia242,742

Fremont city, California241,110

Garland city, Texas239,928

Irving city, Texas239,798

Hialeah city, Florida233,339

Richmond city, Virginia230,436

Boise City city, Idaho228,959

Spokane city, Washington222,081

Baton Rouge city, Louisiana220,236

Tacoma city, Washington217,827

San Bernardino city, California215,784

Modesto city, California215,196

Fontana city, California214,547

Des Moines city, Iowa214,237

Moreno Valley city, California213,055

Santa Clarita city, California212,979

Fayetteville city, North Carolina211,657

Birmingham city, Alabama209,403

Oxnard city, California208,881

Rochester city, New York205,695

Port St. Lucie city, Florida201,846

Grand Rapids city, Michigan201,013

Huntsville city, Alabama200,574

Salt Lake City city, Utah200,567

Frisco city, Texas200,490

Yonkers city, New York200,370

Amarillo city, Texas199,371

Glendale city, California199,303

Huntington Beach city, California199,223

McKinney city, Texas199,177

Montgomery city, Alabama198,525

Augusta-Richmond County consolidated government (balance), Georgia197,888

Aurora city, Illinois197,757

Akron city, Ohio197,597

Little Rock city, Arkansas197,312

Tempe city, Arizona195,805

Columbus city, Georgia195,769

Overland Park city, Kansas195,494

Grand Prairie city, Texas194,543

Tallahassee city, Florida194,500

Cape Coral city, Florida194,495

Mobile city, Alabama188,720

Knoxville city, Tennessee187,603

Shreveport city, Louisiana187,112

Worcester city, Massachusetts185,428

Ontario city, California185,010

Vancouver city, Washington184,463

Sioux Falls city, South Dakota183,793

Chattanooga city, Tennessee182,799

Brownsville city, Texas182,781

Fort Lauderdale city, Florida182,437

Providence city, Rhode Island179,883

Newport News city, Virginia179,225

Rancho Cucamonga city, California177,603

Santa Rosa city, California176,753

Peoria city, Arizona175,961

Oceanside city, California175,742

Elk Grove city, California174,775

Salem city, Oregon174,365

Pembroke Pines city, Florida173,591

Eugene city, Oregon172,622

Garden Grove city, California171,644

Cary town, North Carolina170,282

Fort Collins city, Colorado170,243

Corona city, California169,868

Springfield city, Missouri167,882

Jackson city, Mississippi160,628

Alexandria city, Virginia159,428

Hayward city, California159,203

Clarksville city, Tennessee158,146

Lakewood city, Colorado157,935

Lancaster city, California157,601

Salinas city, California155,465

Palmdale city, California155,079

Hollywood city, Florida154,817

Springfield city, Massachusetts153,606

Macon-Bibb County, Georgia153,159

Kansas City city, Kansas152,960

Sunnyvale city, California152,703

Pomona city, California151,691

Killeen city, Texas151,666

Escondido city, California151,625

Pasadena city, Texas151,227

Naperville city, Illinois148,449

Bellevue city, Washington148,164

Joliet city, Illinois147,344

Murfreesboro city, Tennessee146,900

Midland city, Texas146,038

Rockford city, Illinois145,609

Paterson city, New Jersey145,233

Savannah city, Georgia144,464

Bridgeport city, Connecticut144,399

Torrance city, California143,592

McAllen city, Texas143,268

Syracuse city, New York142,327

Surprise city, Arizona141,664

Denton city, Texas141,541

Roseville city, California141,500

Thornton city, Colorado141,464

Miramar city, Florida141,191

Pasadena city, California141,029

Mesquite city, Texas140,937

Olathe city, Kansas140,545

Dayton city, Ohio140,407

Carrollton city, Texas139,248

Waco city, Texas139,236

Orange city, California138,669

Fullerton city, California138,632

Charleston city, South Carolina137,566

West Valley City city, Utah135,248

Visalia city, California134,605

Hampton city, Virginia134,510

Gainesville city, Florida133,997

Warren city, Michigan133,943

Coral Springs city, Florida133,759

Cedar Rapids city, Iowa133,562

Round Rock city, Texas133,372

Sterling Heights city, Michigan132,438

Kent city, Washington132,319

Columbia city, South Carolina131,674

Santa Clara city, California130,365

New Haven city, Connecticut130,250

Stamford city, Connecticut129,638

Concord city, California129,295

Elizabeth city, New Jersey129,216

Athens-Clarke County unified government (balance), Georgia126,913

Thousand Oaks city, California126,813

Lafayette city, Louisiana126,185

Simi Valley city, California125,613

Topeka city, Kansas125,310

Norman city, Oklahoma124,880

Fargo city, North Dakota124,662

Wilmington city, North Carolina123,744

Abilene city, Texas123,420

Odessa city, Texas123,334

Columbia city, Missouri123,195

Pearland city, Texas122,460

Victorville city, California122,385

Hartford city, Connecticut122,105

Vallejo city, California121,692

Allentown city, Pennsylvania121,442

Berkeley city, California121,363

Richardson city, Texas121,323

Arvada city, Colorado121,272

Ann Arbor city, Michigan119,980

Rochester city, Minnesota118,935

Cambridge city, Massachusetts118,927

Sugar Land city, Texas118,488

Lansing city, Michigan118,210

Evansville city, Indiana117,979

College Station city, Texas117,911

Fairfield city, California117,133

Clearwater city, Florida116,946

Beaumont city, Texas116,825

Independence city, Missouri116,672

Provo city, Utah116,618

West Jordan city, Utah116,480

Murrieta city, California116,223

Palm Bay city, Florida115,552

El Monte city, California115,487

Carlsbad city, California115,382

North Charleston city, South Carolina115,382

Temecula city, California114,761

Clovis city, California114,584

Springfield city, Illinois114,230

Meridian city, Idaho114,161

Westminster city, Colorado113,166

Costa Mesa city, California113,003

High Point city, North Carolina112,791

Manchester city, New Hampshire112,673

Pueblo city, Colorado112,361

Lakeland city, Florida112,136

Pompano Beach city, Florida112,118

West Palm Beach city, Florida111,955

Antioch city, California111,502

Everett city, Washington111,475

Downey city, California111,126

Lowell city, Massachusetts110,997

Centennial city, Colorado110,937

Elgin city, Illinois110,849

Richmond city, California110,567

Peoria city, Illinois110,417

Broken Arrow city, Oklahoma110,198

Miami Gardens city, Florida110,001

Billings city, Montana109,577

Jurupa Valley city, California109,527

Sandy Springs city, Georgia109,452

Gresham city, Oregon109,381

Lewisville city, Texas109,212

Hillsboro city, Oregon109,128

San Buenaventura (Ventura) city, California109,106

Greeley city, Colorado108,649

Inglewood city, California108,151

Waterbury city, Connecticut107,568

League City city, Texas107,536

Santa Maria city, California107,263

Tyler city, Texas106,985

Davie town, Florida106,306

Daly City city, California106,280

Boulder city, Colorado105,673

Allen city, Texas105,623

West Covina city, California105,101

Sparks city, Nevada105,006

Wichita Falls city, Texas104,683

Green Bay city, Wisconsin104,578

San Mateo city, California104,430

Norwalk city, California103,949

Rialto city, California103,526

Las Cruces city, New Mexico103,432

Chico city, California103,301

El Cajon city, California102,708

Burbank city, California102,511

South Bend city, Indiana102,026

Renton city, Washington101,751

Vista city, California101,638

Davenport city, Iowa101,590

Edinburg city, Texas101,170

Tuscaloosa city, Alabama101,129

Carmel city, Indiana101,068

Spokane Valley city, Washington101,060

San Angelo city, Texas101,004

Vacaville city, California100,670

Bend city, Oregon100,421

Kenosha city, Wisconsin99,944

Boca Raton city, Florida99,805

Lee's Summit city, Missouri99,357

Nampa city, Idaho99,277

Rio Rancho city, New Mexico99,178

South Fulton city, Georgia99,155

Roanoke city, Virginia99,143

Beaverton city, Oregon99,037

Yuma city, Arizona98,285

Lawrence city, Kansas98,193

Orem city, Utah97,828

Longmont city, Colorado97,261

San Marcos city, California96,664

Albany city, New York96,460

Sandy city, Utah96,380

Concord city, North Carolina96,341

Federal Way city, Washington96,289

Hesperia city, California95,750

Brockton city, Massachusetts95,708

Compton city, California95,605

Flint city, Michigan95,538

Erie city, Pennsylvania95,508

New Bedford city, Massachusetts95,363

Fishers city, Indiana95,310

Sunrise city, Florida95,166

Roswell city, Georgia94,763

Menifee city, California94,756

Tracy city, California94,740

Plantation city, Florida94,580

Quincy city, Massachusetts94,470

Portsmouth city, Virginia94,398

Mission Viejo city, California94,381

Chino city, California94,371

Lynn city, Massachusetts94,299

Edmond city, Oklahoma94,054

Dearborn city, Michigan93,932

Livonia city, Michigan93,665

Yakima city, Washington93,637

South Gate city, California93,444

Greenville city, North Carolina93,400

Lawton city, Oklahoma93,025

Kirkland city, Washington93,010

Asheville city, North Carolina92,870

Deltona city, Florida92,757

Redding city, California92,590

Bellingham city, Washington92,314

Suffolk city, Virginia92,108

Indio city, California91,765

Mount Pleasant town, South Carolina91,684

Carson city, California91,394

Santa Barbara city, California91,364

Conroe city, Texas91,079

Westminster city, California90,643

Santa Monica city, California90,401

New Braunfels city, Texas90,209

Livermore city, California90,189

Palm Coast city, Florida89,800

St. George city, Utah89,587

Fall River city, Massachusetts89,541

Nashua city, New Hampshire89,355

Champaign city, Illinois88,909

Miami Beach city, Florida88,885

Norwalk city, Connecticut88,816

San Leandro city, California88,815

O'Fallon city, Missouri88,673

Newton city, Massachusetts88,414

Reading city, Pennsylvania88,375

Avondale city, Arizona87,931

Fort Smith city, Arkansas87,891

Citrus Heights city, California87,796

Ogden city, Utah87,773

Fayetteville city, Arkansas87,590

Fort Myers city, Florida87,103

Goodyear city, Arizona86,840

Bryan city, Texas86,276

Waukegan city, Illinois86,075

Hawthorne city, California86,068

Redwood City city, California85,925

Hoover city, Alabama85,768

Bloomington city, Indiana85,755

Duluth city, Minnesota85,618

Lake Forest city, California85,531

Hemet city, California85,334

Whittier city, California85,098

Clifton city, New Jersey85,052

Largo city, Florida84,948

Bloomington city, Minnesota84,943

Danbury city, Connecticut84,694

Santa Fe city, New Mexico84,683

Johns Creek city, Georgia84,579

Newport Beach city, California84,534

Kennewick city, Washington84,347

Mission city, Texas84,331

Milpitas city, California84,196

Troy city, Michigan84,092

Chino Hills city, California83,853

Alhambra city, California83,750

Merced city, California83,676

Trenton city, New Jersey83,203

Franklin city, Tennessee83,097

Medford city, Oregon83,072

Melbourne city, Florida83,029

Manteca city, California83,028

Mountain View city, California82,739

Sioux City city, Iowa82,651

Lynchburg city, Virginia82,168

Buena Park city, California81,788

Pleasanton city, California81,777

Longview city, Texas81,631

Westland city, Michigan81,511

Auburn city, Washington81,464

Cranston city, Rhode Island81,456

Somerville city, Massachusetts81,360

Folsom city, California81,328

Springdale city, Arkansas81,125

Deerfield Beach city, Florida81,066

Warwick city, Rhode Island81,004

Cicero town, Illinois80,796

Farmington Hills city, Michigan80,612

Brooklyn Park city, Minnesota80,389

Lawrence city, Massachusetts80,028

Plymouth city, Minnesota79,768

Buckeye city, Arizona79,620

Georgetown city, Texas79,604

Cedar Park city, Texas79,462

Tustin city, California79,348

Lakewood city, California79,307

Perris city, California79,291

Flower Mound town, Texas79,135

Pharr city, Texas79,112

Loveland city, Colorado78,877

Boynton Beach city, Florida78,679

New Rochelle city, New York78,557

Temple city, Texas78,439

Lake Charles city, Louisiana78,396

Jonesboro city, Arkansas78,394

Napa city, California78,130

Parma city, Ohio78,103

Layton city, Utah78,014

Alameda city, California77,624

Warner Robins city, Georgia77,617

Rapid City city, South Dakota77,503

Bloomington city, Illinois77,330

Gastonia city, North Carolina77,273

Baytown city, Texas77,192

Upland city, California77,140

Racine city, Wisconsin76,760

Scranton city, Pennsylvania76,653

South Jordan city, Utah76,598

Bellflower city, California76,435

Kalamazoo city, Michigan76,200

San Ramon city, California75,995

Bethlehem city, Pennsylvania75,815

Wyoming city, Michigan75,667

Hammond city, Indiana75,522

Missoula city, Montana75,516

Missouri City city, Texas75,457

Pasco city, Washington75,432

Baldwin Park city, California75,251

Iowa City city, Iowa75,130

Rancho Cordova city, California75,087

Rock Hill city, South Carolina75,048

Flagstaff city, Arizona75,038

Gary city, Indiana74,879

St. Joseph city, Missouri74,875

Arlington Heights village, Illinois74,760

Bolingbrook village, Illinois74,545

Rochester Hills city, Michigan74,516

Framingham city, Massachusetts74,416

Union City city, California74,107

Appleton city, Wisconsin74,098

Turlock city, California73,631

Camden city, New Jersey73,562

Bismarck city, North Dakota73,529

Evanston city, Illinois73,473

Apple Valley town, California73,453

Schaumburg village, Illinois72,887

Woodbury city, Minnesota72,828

Kissimmee city, Florida72,717

Southfield city, Michigan72,689

Maple Grove city, Minnesota72,622

Pittsburg city, California72,588

New Britain city, Connecticut72,495

Jacksonville city, North Carolina72,436

Mansfield city, Texas72,419

Waukesha city, Wisconsin72,299

Frederick city, Maryland72,244

Albany city, Georgia72,130

Pawtucket city, Rhode Island72,117

Redmond city, Washington71,929

Lauderhill city, Florida71,868

Lafayette city, Indiana71,721

Gulfport city, Mississippi71,705

Redlands city, California71,513

Weston city, Florida71,166

St. Charles city, Missouri71,028

Decatur city, Illinois70,746

North Port city, Florida70,724

North Richland Hills city, Texas70,670

Greenville city, South Carolina70,635

Bowling Green city, Kentucky70,543

Broomfield city, Colorado70,465

Canton city, Ohio70,447

Marysville city, Washington70,298

Walnut Creek city, California70,166

Wilmington city, Delaware70,166

Camarillo city, California69,888

Lynwood city, California69,887

Lehi city, Utah69,724

Passaic city, New Jersey69,703

Homestead city, Florida69,523

Delray Beach city, Florida69,451

Davis city, California69,413

Lake Elsinore city, California69,283

Daytona Beach city, Florida69,186

Dothan city, Alabama68,941

Rocklin city, California68,823

Eau Claire city, Wisconsin68,802

Rogers city, Arkansas68,669

Castle Rock town, Colorado68,484

St. Cloud city, Minnesota68,462

Bossier City city, Louisiana68,159

Rockville city, Maryland68,079

Muncie city, Indiana67,999

Gaithersburg city, Maryland67,985

Union City city, New Jersey67,982

West Des Moines city, Iowa67,899

South San Francisco city, California67,789

Yorba Linda city, California67,644

Conway city, Arkansas67,638

Lodi city, California67,586

Palatine village, Illinois67,482

Ankeny city, Iowa67,355

Mount Vernon city, New York67,345

Rowlett city, Texas67,339

Waterloo city, Iowa67,328

Lakeville city, Minnesota67,317

Alpharetta city, Georgia67,213

Jackson city, Tennessee67,191

Yuba City city, California67,010

Oshkosh city, Wisconsin67,004

Victoria city, Texas66,916

Johnson City city, Tennessee66,906

Redondo Beach city, California66,749

Tamarac city, Florida66,721

Laguna Niguel city, California66,385

Eagan city, Minnesota66,372

Kenner city, Louisiana66,340

Auburn city, Alabama66,259

Ames city, Iowa66,258

Portland city, Maine66,215

North Little Rock city, Arkansas65,903

Sammamish city, Washington65,892

Madera city, California65,860

Shawnee city, Kansas65,807

Jupiter town, Florida65,791

Doral city, Florida65,741

Blaine city, Minnesota65,607

Tulare city, California65,496

Youngstown city, Ohio65,469

Wellington village, Florida65,398

Pflugerville city, Texas65,380

Palo Alto city, California65,364

Schenectady city, New York65,273

Harlingen city, Texas65,022

Bayonne city, New Jersey64,897

Eden Prairie city, Minnesota64,893

Port Orange city, Florida64,842

Dublin city, California64,826

San Marcos city, Texas64,776

Noblesville city, Indiana64,668

Santa Cruz city, California64,608

Janesville city, Wisconsin64,575

San Clemente city, California64,558

Brentwood city, California64,474

East Orange city, New Jersey64,367

Cheyenne city, Wyoming64,235

Eastvale city, California64,157

Chapel Hill town, North Carolina64,051

Haverhill city, Massachusetts64,014

Lorain city, Ohio63,855

Grand Junction city, Colorado63,597

Springfield city, Oregon63,230

Coon Rapids city, Minnesota62,998

Idaho Falls city, Idaho62,888

North Miami city, Florida62,822

Encinitas city, California62,709

Skokie village, Illinois62,700

Leander city, Texas62,608

Waltham city, Massachusetts62,495

Council Bluffs city, Iowa62,166

Hamilton city, Ohio62,082

Moore city, Oklahoma62,055

Pico Rivera city, California62,027

Montebello city, California61,954

Millcreek city, Utah61,450

Sanford city, Florida61,448

National City city, California61,394

Burnsville city, Minnesota61,339

Coconut Creek city, Florida61,248

Lakewood city, Washington61,037

Taylor city, Michigan60,922

Novi city, Michigan60,896

Marietta city, Georgia60,867

Ocala city, Florida60,786

Terre Haute city, Indiana60,622

Woodland city, California60,548

Petaluma city, California60,520

La Habra city, California60,513

Malden city, Massachusetts60,470

Commerce City city, Colorado60,336

Owensboro city, Kentucky60,131

Bristol city, Connecticut59,947

West Allis city, Wisconsin59,890

Taylorsville city, Utah59,805

Utica city, New York59,750

Monterey Park city, California59,669

Bonita Springs city, Florida59,637

Porterville city, California59,599

Greenwood city, Indiana59,458

Bartlett city, Tennessee59,440

Bradenton city, Florida59,439

Vineland city, New Jersey59,439

Pontiac city, Michigan59,438

Meriden city, Connecticut59,395

Gardena city, California59,329

Apex town, North Carolina59,300

Royal Oak city, Michigan59,277

Cupertino city, California59,276

Lancaster city, Pennsylvania59,265

La Mesa city, California59,249

Gilroy city, California59,032

St. Clair Shores city, Michigan58,984

Des Plaines city, Illinois58,899

Springfield city, Ohio58,877

Corvallis city, Oregon58,856

Margate city, Florida58,796

Bowie city, Maryland58,643

Casa Grande city, Arizona58,632

Caldwell city, Idaho58,481

San Rafael city, California58,440

Great Falls city, Montana58,434

Sarasota city, Florida58,285

Richland city, Washington58,225

St. Peters city, Missouri58,212

Hendersonville city, Tennessee58,113

White Plains city, New York58,109

Huntersville town, North Carolina58,098

Santee city, California58,081

Kokomo city, Indiana58,020

Arcadia city, California57,939

Casper city, Wyoming57,931

Dubuque city, Iowa57,882

Orland Park village, Illinois57,857

Weymouth Town city, Massachusetts57,746

Parker town, Colorado57,706

Palm Beach Gardens city, Florida57,704

Hanford city, California57,703

Huntington Park city, California57,509

Taunton city, Massachusetts57,464

Midwest City city, Oklahoma57,407

Medford city, Massachusetts57,341

Euless city, Texas57,197

Shoreline city, Washington57,027

Smyrna city, Georgia56,666

Pocatello city, Idaho56,637

Valdosta city, Georgia56,457

Carson City, Nevada55,916

Lake Havasu City city, Arizona55,865

Grand Forks city, North Dakota55,839

Blue Springs city, Missouri55,829

Southaven city, Mississippi55,780

Tinley Park village, Illinois55,773

Diamond Bar city, California55,720

New Brunswick city, New Jersey55,676

Lenexa city, Kansas55,625

Brookhaven city, Georgia55,554

Novato city, California55,516

Tigard city, Oregon55,514

Highland city, California55,417

Fountain Valley city, California55,357

Dearborn Heights city, Michigan55,353

Albany city, Oregon55,338

Grapevine city, Texas55,281

Apple Valley city, Minnesota55,135

Chicopee city, Massachusetts55,126

Hempstead village, New York55,113

Oak Lawn village, Illinois55,022

Cathedral City city, California55,007

Bentonville city, Arkansas54,909

Stonecrest city, Georgia54,903

Kettering city, Ohio54,855

Colton city, California54,824

Anderson city, Indiana54,765

West Haven city, Connecticut54,620

Burlington city, North Carolina54,606

Manhattan city, Kansas54,604

St. Cloud city, Florida54,579

Normal town, Illinois54,469

Decatur city, Alabama54,445

Berwyn city, Illinois54,391

Port Arthur city, Texas54,280

Kingsport city, Tennessee54,127

Minnetonka city, Minnesota54,064

Rosemead city, California54,058

Paramount city, California53,955

Rocky Mount city, North Carolina53,922

Yucaipa city, California53,921

Watsonville city, California53,856

Elyria city, Ohio53,757

Leesburg town, Virginia53,727

Mount Prospect village, Illinois53,719

Pinellas Park city, Florida53,637

Delano city, California53,573

Bellevue city, Nebraska53,544

West Sacramento city, California53,519

Apopka city, Florida53,447

Palm Desert city, California53,275

Milford city (balance), Connecticut53,195

Little Elm city, Texas53,126

Revere city, Massachusetts53,073

Peabody city, Massachusetts53,070

Wylie city, Texas53,067

Harrisonburg city, Virginia53,016

DeSoto city, Texas52,988

Pensacola city, Florida52,975

Olympia city, Washington52,882

Edina city, Minnesota52,857

Wheaton city, Illinois52,745

West New York town, New Jersey52,723

Hoboken city, New Jersey52,677

Lacey city, Washington52,592

Summerville town, South Carolina52,549

Coeur d'Alene city, Idaho52,414

Oak Park village, Illinois52,381

Elkhart city, Indiana52,358

Maricopa city, Arizona52,127

Kentwood city, Michigan51,898

Madison city, Alabama51,593

Smyrna town, Tennessee51,586

Glendora city, California51,544

Logan city, Utah51,542

Burien city, Washington51,500

Perth Amboy city, New Jersey51,390

Herriman city, Utah51,348

Grand Island city, Nebraska51,267

Placentia city, California51,233

La Crosse city, Wisconsin51,227

Battle Creek city, Michigan51,093

Beaumont city, California51,063

Collierville town, Tennessee51,040

West Lafayette city, Indiana50,996

Florissant city, Missouri50,952

Hoffman Estates village, Illinois50,932

Joplin city, Missouri50,925

Queen Creek town, Arizona50,890

Aliso Viejo city, California50,887

Kannapolis city, North Carolina50,841

Methuen Town city, Massachusetts50,706

Galveston city, Texas50,446

Mishawaka city, Indiana50,363

Plainfield city, New Jersey50,317

Newark city, Ohio50,315

Stillwater city, Oklahoma50,299

Twin Falls city, Idaho50,197

Texas City city, Texas50,094

Cerritos city, California49,859

Coral Gables city, Florida49,700

Enid city, Oklahoma49,688

Lakewood city, Ohio49,678

Troy city, New York49,154

Saginaw city, Michigan48,115

Niagara Falls city, New York47,720

Charleston city, West Virginia46,536

Oy, that list is so irrelevant without metro populations.

What's interesting is that America's largest suburb (Mesa, AZ with 518,012) is small compared to the much larger Ecatepec (Mexico's largest suburb at 1,658,806) and moderately larger Mississauga (Canada's largest suburb at 828,854).  Yet Ecatepec and Mississauga are both urbanizing faster than Mesa.  Ecatepec just built the Mexicable Cable Car and Mississauga is building the Hurontario LRT.  Meanwhile, in Mesa, a LRT expansion that goes through the heart of...uhh..."downtown."

 

 

America sucks.

2 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

The full list, FYI:

 

How can you call that a full list if the cities between 46,536 and 5,000 are not included?

 

Aren't they the true heart of America? ?

There's enough cities that size in Ohio alone to make the list twice as long 

^^^^^^

It is so cool to see Newark make that list. Newark recently went over the 50,000 population mark.  The city has seen a TON of investment and is growing steadily.  Lots of positive things going on here.  The people here seem to really be embracing the revitalization that's been taking place and that's the key.  People have a different pep in their step nowadays it seems.   

11 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

The full list, FYI:

 

9 hours ago, Columbo said:

How can you call that a full list if the cities between 46,536 and 5,000 are not included?

Isn’t Dublin higher than 46k?  I don’t see it.  Am I wrong?