How is that even allowed?

Cities that had low response rates, like Cleveland, are going to be really screwed by the early stop.  The purpose of it is to lower the counts in urban areas and poor and minority communities. 

Edited August 12, 20204 yr by jonoh81

 

C'mon man. NEO wake up!! Filled mine out months ago. It's not hard!

6 hours ago, cadmen said:

C'mon man. NEO wake up!! Filled mine out months ago. It's not hard!

 

Not everyone has access to the internet/a computer though. If you follow Kate Warren on Twitter (her tweet is in the post you responded to) you would know she often discusses the digital divide, how it tracks with redlining in Cleveland, and how that relationship has led to low self-reporting for the Census in large parts of Cleveland. 

 

Not to mention low income and non-white communities traditionally being under-counted in the past as well as the struggles/delays to Census efforts because of Covid (and the last minute cut off giving an already stressed Census Bureau even less time to get an accurate count)

^Most people now have smartphones- I completed it through Chrome on my phone.

Ive been trying to get the word out about the Census- it took me less than five minutes to complete. These rates do not bode well for the region.

30 minutes ago, andrew0816 said:

 

Not everyone has access to the internet/a computer though. If you follow Kate Warren on Twitter (her tweet is in the post you responded to) you would know she often discusses the digital divide, how it tracks with redlining in Cleveland, and how that relationship has led to low self-reporting for the Census in large parts of Cleveland. 

 

Not to mention low income and non-white communities traditionally being under-counted in the past as well as the struggles/delays to Census efforts because of Covid (and the last minute cut off giving an already stressed Census Bureau even less time to get an accurate count)

I believe you can do it by phone as well.

I completed the paper form. Coincidentally l also completed my 90 year old mother's paper form her today.

Doesn't even need a stamp to mail back.

I also had an interaction with a Census worker who was on my neighbor's front porch last week.  So there are still some out on the streets working.  

 

 

They were set up the other day outside of the University of Cincinnati with a pop up tent and tables

18 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

^Most people now have smartphones- I completed it through Chrome on my phone.

 

I suppose if you are looking at the county as a whole the assertion that "most people now have smartphones" and the further implication that if that's true then most people would also have an internet connection of some kind would also be true, but let's go a little deeper.

 

According to the 2017 American Community Survey 5-Year Estimates, 36.9% of households in Cleveland do not have internet access of any kind, including no access to "fixed 4G, dial-up modems, and mobile device data plans." That lack of internet access is predominately found in lower income and majority non-white census tracts mainly clustered on the east side. There are even some census tracts in Cleveland where more than 50% of households lack internet access of any kind, see the visual representation below (Source: Connecting Cuyahoga, June 2019)

 

Now add the lack of internet access with the issues caused by Covid (delay sending out Census workers to collect data, having to change how those workers collect data, and the last minute decision to stop collection efforts on 9/30/2020), I think explains why response rates have been so low (below is a screenshot taken today of response rates). Not to mention fears immigrant populations have of responding to the Cenus, but that's another issue.

 

 

 

30 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

I also had an interaction with a Census worker who was on my neighbor's front porch last week.  So there are still some out on the streets working.  

 

 

 

The census is paying a lot better than they have in the past since they need a lot of people this year.

They need to delay the Census.  New Zealand did it after the Christchurch earthquake.

Also, how good are the public libraries in those census tracts? How good is the access to get to those public libraries?

@Dev Great point about libraries, which often fill the role of offering internet/computers and other services to those in the community who would otherwise not have access. Important to note that access to those services were cut off while those libraries were closed to the public due to Covid (the whole system only re-opened on 8/24)

I think our low response rate has to do with abandoned properties. I don't believe the census is withdrawing properties with no occupants so our response rate seems lower than most. This would make sense as Detroit and Newark suffer from the same problem.

A thought occurred to me. We've been talking about the low response rate in Cleveland in particular, but I see the same thing in cities all over the country. NYC in particular seems to be going crazy over it. Between the pandemic and cutting short the counting time, what happens if the response rate across the country is so low that the final results are blatantly wrong? I don't in any reality expect it to show a national decrease from the 2000 census, but what if it shows a national decrease from 2019 estimates? What if is shows a decrease in, for example, 50 out of the 100 largest cities, or something similar? Those results would obviously go against all other data. Are there contingencies for the census if the results are so botched it needs to be redone?

^ I believe November 3rd is the contingency.

@Metz44 That's why the data collection from the census takers is so important, they help fill in that information gap, but I don't think the number of households has decreased that drastically to account for the majority of the lower response rates.

 

@PoshSteve Yeah, there is major cause for concern, which is why so many cities have called for an extension and many community/neighborhood groups and local non-profits have been working on getting the word out/going out into the community and getting responses to the census (mobile tent centers, info drives, etc.). As it stands now, we could possibly see cities across the US challenging the results, which has been done before but is difficult and previously not on the scale that I think we'll see if an extension is not granted.

 

Kate Warren from The Center for Community Solutions has a great twitter thread talking the census results:

 

And NPR came out with an article recently where a "Leak Reveals Warnings Inside Census That Shortened Schedule Risks 'Serious Errors'."

 

 

As someone working for the census, particularly in those low income Eastside neighborhoods, I can say we still have quite a bit of work to do here. I remember when the timeline was shortened such that we'd need to stop by September 30th. The day before this was announced, my supervisor was telling us Cleveland census work was planning to go till October 24th and doubted we'd finish any earlier. 

On a somewhat more reassuring note, Ohio is now at 95.0% completion: https://2020census.gov/en/response-rates/nrfu.htmll

The issue is a lot of that remaining 5% is in poor urban areas where we really need to count them. And a lot of the remaining households are those that continually refuse to fill out the census whether it be politely, by slamming the door, or by threatening us.

Edited September 17, 20204 yr by tykaps

^A lot of that could be due to folks just having misconceptions about the census- especially in poor areas.  As an example, if there is an old warrant out for someone and the census worker comes knocking at the door, if that person doesn't know any better they'll ignore the census worker believing the census will tell where the person lives.  They won't (unless that changed), but that isn't pushed out into the neighborhoods with low counts.

Edited September 17, 20204 yr by Oldmanladyluck

6 hours ago, tykaps said:

As someone working for the census, particularly in those low income Eastside neighborhoods, I can say we still have quite a bit of work to do here. I remember when the timeline was shortened such that we'd need to stop by September 30th. The day before this was announced, my supervisor was telling us Cleveland census work was planning to go till October 24th and doubted we'd finish any earlier. 

On a somewhat more reassuring note, Ohio is now at 95.0% completion: https://2020census.gov/en/response-rates/nrfu.htmll

The issue is a lot of that remaining 5% is in poor urban areas where we really need to count them. And a lot of the remaining households are those that continually refuse to fill out the census whether it be politely, by slamming the door, or by threatening us.

 

Will it be extended? I heard the City of Cleveland inner-ring suburbs is 72% complete.  Meanwhile, Columbus is 91% complete.

1 hour ago, Pugu said:

 

Will it be extended? I heard the City of Cleveland inner-ring suburbs is 72% complete.  Meanwhile, Columbus is 91% complete.

Your guess is as good as mine about if it'll be extended.

@tykaps are we allowed to contact the census regarding empty properties? For example, someone came by and left notices on the doors of three units in my condo building that have not had any occupants in the 2.5 years I've lived here. I would hate for them to keep wasting time chasing after vacant properties.

I've filled the forms out twice online now, and am still getting notifications that I need to get it done. This time around it seems much less organized than 2010.

2 hours ago, PoshSteve said:

@tykaps are we allowed to contact the census regarding empty properties? For example, someone came by and left notices on the doors of three units in my condo building that have not had any occupants in the 2.5 years I've lived here. I would hate for them to keep wasting time chasing after vacant properties.

If you want you can use the notice left and fill it out yourself or tell a census worker if you see one going to the address. After 3 no-contacts, we'll be asked to look for a neighbor who can tell us, so we'll find out eventually at least.

 

52 minutes ago, originaljbw said:

I've filled the forms out twice online now, and am still getting notifications that I need to get it done. This time around it seems much less organized than 2010.

I understand I'm so sick of knocking on doors only to learn that the people already filled it out. A coworker I talked to said this is his 5th time working for the census and this is the least organized one yet.

3 hours ago, tykaps said:

If you want you can use the notice left and fill it out yourself or tell a census worker if you see one going to the address. After 3 no-contacts, we'll be asked to look for a neighbor who can tell us, so we'll find out eventually at least.

 

I understand I'm so sick of knocking on doors only to learn that the people already filled it out. A coworker I talked to said this is his 5th time working for the census and this is the least organized one yet.

Thank you for doing this important work. This administration can’t perform a proper census, or keep the money supply replenished....pathetic. 

 

So...court rulings no longer matter.

We're in a time now where rules and standards are...just not. I'm afraid it's going to get MUCH worse in a few months when we see votes don't count anymore. 

15 hours ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

So...court rulings no longer matter.

They do, it is empty rhetoric until they actually take action. But openly violating a court order by a government official is a big deal. It is not Oct 5 yet so we will have to see what happens. 

has anyone seem census staff around? i see them canvassing neighborhoods rich and poor here around nyc in the little bits of pandemic time i have been out and about. seems its still not going so well though. 

I've seen them in Lakewood and I also saw a census worker in Slavic Village near the Mill Creek waterfall.

2 hours ago, mrnyc said:

has anyone seem census staff around? i see them canvassing neighborhoods rich and poor here around nyc in the little bits of pandemic time i have been out and about. seems its still not going so well though. 

@tykaps is census staff for East side neighborhoods. He is around. 

2 hours ago, mrnyc said:

has anyone seem census staff around? i see them canvassing neighborhoods rich and poor here around nyc in the little bits of pandemic time i have been out and about. seems its still not going so well though. 

I live in OTR in Cincinnati. I've had 3 different Census people try to get resident info for a non-existent unit in my apartment building (2 one bedrooms got combined into a 2 bedroom, so it doesn't exist anymore). They are out here working hard, I know some inner city neighborhoods are really hard to canvass.

 

If they don't get a good response rate, it won't be for lack of trying or follow-up.

Edited September 29, 20204 yr by OliverHazardPerry

that is encouraging to hear, that it does not seem to be for lack of trying in person. that was my impression.

 

unfortunately, it looks like we are going to get a major undercount of some urban neighborhoods and undocumented folks. its hard to say now how much different that is from any other census survey though.

On 9/17/2020 at 3:52 PM, PoshSteve said:

@tykaps are we allowed to contact the census regarding empty properties? For example, someone came by and left notices on the doors of three units in my condo building that have not had any occupants in the 2.5 years I've lived here. I would hate for them to keep wasting time chasing after vacant properties.

The census criterion for counting is living quarters, not occupancy or occupants.  One of the census workers' tasks is to report new living quarters not on the rolls.  It's kind of odd; but if you think about it, it's logical.

6 hours ago, freefourur said:

I've seen them in Lakewood and I also saw a census worker in Slavic Village near the Mill Creek waterfall.

 

What we're they counting? Fish?

 

Something else to consider.... The Lakewood Days Inn on Clifton has become a homeless shelter during COVID. These are now considered residential spaces as two of the occupants of the Days Inn are convicted sex offenders and had to register this address as their new residence. We received the notices in the mail at our home. I'm aware that other hotels/motels in the area are being used as homeless shelters as well.

 

So my point is.... Will the Census counters know which hotels are being used as shelters and be able to find all of the residents and count them?

yeah for sure new temporary homeless hotels and new build apartments and houses are added undercount site worries. 

 

its good to hear the census has workers whose job is to figure these kinds of sites out though, i wondered how they handled that and am glad to hear they have people investigating in person instead of just online as i had thought. 

Someone from the census had reached out to me at work - I assume with questions on new and/or vacant houses in the city. Unfortunately it was outside normal business hours, and I haven't heard back since I called back and left a voicemail. They're trying at least!

13 hours ago, mrnyc said:

has anyone seem census staff around? i see them canvassing neighborhoods rich and poor here around nyc in the little bits of pandemic time i have been out and about. seems its still not going so well though. 

We're actually doing surprisingly well. I think the statistic is that us employees are about 66.7% more productive than predicted. In my zone (parts of Eastside and Eastside suburbs), we're at 92.4% completion. 2400 more cases in the zone with 350 enumerators. These last cases are mostly difficult with refusals and apartment buildings we can't access. Certain sections of our zone still need a lot of work such as parts of East Cleveland which I've since been transferred to, but we'll probably get most of what we possibly can before the deadline.

7 hours ago, KJP said:

 

What we're they counting? Fish?

 

Something else to consider.... The Lakewood Days Inn on Clifton has become a homeless shelter during COVID. These are now considered residential spaces as two of the occupants of the Days Inn are convicted sex offenders and had to register this address as their new residence. We received the notices in the mail at our home. I'm aware that other hotels/motels in the area are being used as homeless shelters as well.

 

So my point is.... Will the Census counters know which hotels are being used as shelters and be able to find all of the residents and count them?

There are census employees specialized just for situations just like that. However, COVID situations as such aren't too much of an issue. We count people as where they were or would have normally been on April 1st of this year, before most of those kinds of hotel shelters became a thing.

So I know this isn't new news, but has Youngstown finally stabilized..?

22 hours ago, KJP said:

 

What we're they counting? Fish?

 

Something else to consider.... The Lakewood Days Inn on Clifton has become a homeless shelter during COVID. These are now considered residential spaces as two of the occupants of the Days Inn are convicted sex offenders and had to register this address as their new residence. We received the notices in the mail at our home. I'm aware that other hotels/motels in the area are being used as homeless shelters as well.

 

So my point is.... Will the Census counters know which hotels are being used as shelters and be able to find all of the residents and count them?

 

Although they are still counting, the census is based on where people lived on April 1st so these shelter locations may not be relevant.

 

Also, there is a process for counting homeless population, which I believe has already occurred.

 

i hope everybody who can has completed the census online !

 

it could not be quicker or easier, it only takes minutes. 

 

https://2020census.gov/en.html

17 hours ago, ohpenn said:

So I know this isn't new news, but has Youngstown finally stabilized..?

 

According to latest Census estimates, they've lost about 2% this decade. That is in comparison to about 18% last decade. But they've gained a couple thousand people since 2016. So if the ACS estimates are accurate they seem to have bottomed out and are seeing slow growth. 

^ interesting. i saw youngstown is the same pop as lorain now. youngstown is down 2/3 from its peak and lorain is down 1/3. yeah both are stable over the last decade census tho, so i suppose that is good news. lots of good bones and tabla rasas for developers to work with - ha.

It would be great to see that it bares out the areas have in fact stabilized. That said, the fundamental challenges remain.

here is a nice writeup of a census worker’s story during this pandemic:

 

 

https://indyweek.com/news/northcarolina/census-covid-19-essay/

 

Here is CNN's projected electoral college votes / House of Reps changes based on 2020 census projections.