That's interesting because home prices and rents have been going up like crazy.

 

There are many bright stories however.  Numerous rental duplexes in Lakewood are being rebuilt as single family homes for sale. And the asking prices for them are quite high (like $400,000+).

 

Two sides to that story, as it may qualify as a bubble and/or gentrification worth worrying about.  The latter issue has already been raised by local leadership and may become a flashpoint going forward.

 

I’m not aware of any anti-gentrification movement in Lakewood. Am I wrong in this? Definitely though in Detroit Shoreway and OC however.

Without going into too much detail here, there is a growing progressive faction in area politics.

There is a very small and vocal contingent in Lakewood that is mad about everything ever since the hospital deal.  One of the people may or may not be involved with a community newspaper.  That's my $0.02.

I am skeptical that a serious gentrification issue exists anywhere in Cleveland given the fact that much of the energy of this thread surround the population stagnation of the city and metro. 

There is a very small and vocal contingent in Lakewood that is mad about everything ever since the hospital deal.  One of the people may or may not be involved with a community newspaper.  That's my $0.02.

 

Oh...that does narrow it down lol.

 

I’m numb to the hospital debacle. I understand the complaints but am not interested in that dark area of local politics. I’m jaded enough. I’m much more interested in talking to new business owners and residents about why they chose to locate in Lakewood or Ohio in general.

I am skeptical that a serious gentrification issue exists anywhere in Cleveland given the fact that much of the energy of this thread surround the population stagnation of the city and metro. 

 

Not all areas of the city and metro are stagnate.

I am skeptical that a serious gentrification issue exists anywhere in Cleveland given the fact that much of the energy of this thread surround the population stagnation of the city and metro.

 

Yeah, in CLE you may have to move a short distance. I’m more sympathetic to displaced friends and neighbors in San Diego that literally have to move 50 east into the desert to buy a house.

^ even in Lakewood where values are rising, I still contend that there is a plethora of good affordable in almost every neighborhood of the city except Clifton park.  My street in western Lakewood has many doubles that rent at affordable prices and eastern Lakewood neighborhoods still have tons of affordable housing.  There aren't many other places where you can buy a nice house for $150,000.

If you look at Minneapolis/St Paul they are not really much closer than Cleve/Akron

 

Minneapolis to St Paul is right across the river.  12.4 miles from city center to city center.  Much closer than Cleveland to Akron.

 

The point is not so much the distance between Minneapolis and St. Paul, it was that cities like them, Dallas/Ft Worth, Raleigh Durham, Tampa St. Pete, Washington/Baltimore and even San Fran Oakland to a lesser extent thrive because they create one large metro area and people associate it as one place both to attract federal dollars as well as outside investment from the private sector.

 

Cleveland/Akron and Cincy/Dayton are missing out on that now. Especially Cleve/Akron because like MSP, their counties are contiguous and touch.

^^^ I was just in San Diego last week visiting some friends and they pretty much echoed what you just said.  What's happening there is on a whole different level than anything we've experienced in the midwest. 

^^^ I was just in San Diego last week visiting some friends and they pretty much echoed what you just said.  What's happening there is on a whole different level than anything we've experienced in the midwest.

 

It is crazy to witness.

 

A wonderful coffee shop/music venue in my SD hood just had to close. The owner was charitable, she took care of the homeless and all of the artists and musicians that worked there. But her landlord just tripled the rent.....

 

I’d really hate to see this kind of thing happening in Ohio.

Id really hate to see this kind of thing happening in Ohio.

 

We are far from seeing this in Cleveland or Cincinnati.  Columbus is experiencing a bit of it -- a broad price increase in all housing types.  Much of Cincinnati is still dirt cheap.  You can get a great house for $125-150k and a livable one for much less in half of the metro .

 

^ even in Lakewood where values are rising, I still contend that there is a plethora of good affordable in almost every neighborhood of the city except Clifton park.  My street in western Lakewood has many doubles that rent at affordable prices and eastern Lakewood neighborhoods still have tons of affordable housing.  There aren't many other places where you can buy a nice house for $150,000.

 

I agree, but the trend in recent years has been eye-popping appreciation.  Not 100% clear why. 

^ even in Lakewood where values are rising, I still contend that there is a plethora of good affordable in almost every neighborhood of the city except Clifton park.  My street in western Lakewood has many doubles that rent at affordable prices and eastern Lakewood neighborhoods still have tons of affordable housing.  There aren't many other places where you can buy a nice house for $150,000.

 

I agree, but the trend in recent years has been eye-popping appreciation.  Not 100% clear why.

 

Ok here’s some on-topic anecdotes.

 

A barista at the new Rising Star Coffee on Madison referred to the neighborhood just east of w117 as “Fakewood.” He found a house there that was “practically Lakewood” but much cheaper. I hope the name sticks.

 

Was talking to one of the owners of LBM bar and asked him about his future plans. He said he was absolutely going to “Sam McNulty all of Birdtown.” That’s right, he used W.25 savior/gentrification villain Sam McNulty as a verb!

 

 

 

 

 

Ok here’s some on-topic anecdotes.

 

A barista at the new Rising Star Coffee on Madison referred to the neighborhood just east of w117 as “Fakewood.” He found a house there that was “practically Lakewood” but much cheaper. I hope the name sticks.

 

That area of Edgewater (Lake Ave. to Madison Ave. and W.107th to W.117th) has top-down micro-branded itself as West Edge. They even bought their own cop car for neighborhood patrols (and branded it).

 

Cudell south of Madison is 100% just a gritty (I hate that word and for the life of me can't think of an alternative) version of Lakewood.

Fakewood.  I love it.  That neighborhood  works for people without children or those not using public schools.  However, there are some good deals on the easternmost streets in Lakewood.  I'm not talking about Birdtown but streets like Newman, Hopkins etc.  They are a bit rough but still nice and in Lakewood school district.

I could see Madison, 65th -117th gentrifying and gaining population soonish.

^ I don't see it anytime soon hoenestly.  Unless we get a population influx.

I could see Madison, 65th -117th gentrifying and gaining population soonish.

 

Here’s maybe a start.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2018/02/much-anticipated_corner_bar_wi.html

 

^ I don't see it anytime soon hoenestly.  Unless we get a population influx.

 

The neighborhood isn't as empty as it might appear. The market from West Blvd to W98th and then again around W85th is also pretty solid and we're seeing a lot more renovations than two years ago. There's a place on Gambier renting for 1.1k/mo, somehow.

I’d really hate to see this kind of thing happening in Ohio.

 

Much of Cincinnati is still dirt cheap.  You can get a great house for $125-150k and a livable one for much less in half of the metro .

 

Some of the Cincy listings I’ve seen you and others post are so low it’s hard to believe.

I've heard anecdotal stories of a lot of crime in that area.  But again some people think Lakewood is scary.

^ I don't see it anytime soon hoenestly.  Unless we get a population influx.

 

I think you're underestimating the affect that Detroit Shoreway is causing in pushing development further to the west.  We are seeing a population influx in this section of the city.  A house on Bridge and 65th just sold for 287k and a new build directly across from there went for 320k. 

 

To jws's point, there's not many options left for buyers in the 'hot' areas.  Many potential buyers are now looking a little south (madison ave) or to the west 80s and 90s for deals.

I've heard anecdotal stories of a lot of crime in that area.  But again some people think Lakewood is scary.

 

Block-by-block and in waves. Some spots are very quiet, some have trouble overcoming issues.

 

DSCDO also has a very concentrated focus on the area south of Madison and east of W85th, so that is going to have a big impact on Cudell since Cudell is already far more stable.

I've heard anecdotal stories of a lot of crime in that area.  But again some people think Lakewood is scary.

 

Block-by-block and in waves. Some spots are very quiet, some have trouble overcoming issues.

 

DSCDO also has a very concentrated focus on the area south of Madison and east of W85th, so that is going to have a big impact on Cudell since Cudell is already far more stable.

 

http://www.dscdo.org/media/documents/swds_neighborhoodplan_reduced.pdf

There used to be active gangactivity but I think the CPD quelled a lot of it.  I hope it builds up but I think Detroit from Lake to 117 has a ways to go and is probably stronger.  Maybe I'm way off though.

There used to be active gangactivity but I think the CPD quelled a lot of it.  I hope it builds up but I think Detroit from Lake to 117 has a ways to go and is probably stronger.  Maybe I'm way off though.

 

I think it will continue to stabilize and house values will match what it would cost to build them new. Ultimately, I'm pretty OK with that type of housing market from an equitable housing standpoint (we have a lot of families who moved to Cudell because they just wanted a more quiet place to live).

 

Gang activity did used to be an issue according to my neighbors. Not as much as that one cleveland.com article made it out to be, but it wasn't great. I know the kids that were in my house were wrapped up in the whole MadHouse scene (they carved their allegiance into my bedroom door frame and I accidentally varnished over it so it's currently preserved in perpetuity).

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Cleveland-OH-44102/33326072_zpid/77002_rid/globalrelevanceex_sort/41.485996,-81.737735,41.473345,-81.751467_rect/15_zm/0_mmm/

 

prices are definitely starting to creep up in areas where you saw little investment even 2-3yrs ago.

It's good to hear.  Sound like things are looking good for Madison.  I ride my bike down there occasionally.  Most of the side streets seem quiet enough but I'm usually riding in the day time.

Some of the Cincy listings Ive seen you and others post are so low its hard to believe.

 

It's real.  If it's a great house in an okay area instead of a yuppie area, the thing is half price or less and takes 2-3 months to sell.  It's amazing the way that people fight over small 1-bathroom houses in the "hot" inner-ring suburbs but ignore that exact same house a mile a away. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Cleveland-OH-44102/33326072_zpid/77002_rid/globalrelevanceex_sort/41.485996,-81.737735,41.473345,-81.751467_rect/15_zm/0_mmm/

 

prices are definitely starting to creep up in areas where you saw little investment even 2-3yrs ago.

 

They started at $289k a while back, so who know what they'll end up getting.  I bet they have a hard time fetching $150k.

Some of the Cincy listings Ive seen you and others post are so low its hard to believe.

 

It's real.  If it's a great house in an okay area instead of a yuppie area, the thing is half price or less and takes 2-3 months to sell.  It's amazing the way that people fight over small 1-bathroom houses in the "hot" inner-ring suburbs but ignore that exact same house a mile a away. 

 

 

 

It's 2018 and you can still buy houses on Cincinnati's west side for the prices they sold for in 1982:

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/0_fr/1_fs/4099_rid/2-_beds/48000-479000_price/X1-SS18umt4nh6nrbf_31kch_sse/34255260_zpid/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=emo-content-v2-everything3&utm_content=20180304-forsaleaddress-PSS&rtoken=c927ccbe-1afb-47dd-a85c-9b9e900ed295~X1-ZU1083bmrat4h6x_8469x&3col=true

 

 

Why is this one so cheap?  Because for $80,000 you can get the same house on a nice residential street instead of on...Glenway.  No, not a dangerous place, just on a busy street.  So it's loud and you have to pull in and out of that tiny driveway with some balls. 

 

 

I gave a tour of Cincinnati like ten years ago to an extended family member from Columbus and we were driving around 8th and State when she asked what neighborhood we were in because she thought it was interesting. When I told her it was "Lower Price Hill" she told me it sounds like a neighborhood branded by realtors.

 

I haven't been back there since '08 but I'm guessing the west side of Cincinnati has remained pretty stagnant if not declined. It's a boring place. It's too isolated and there's no architectural integrity outside of Lower Price Hill. It's also over-ran with hillbillies and like GCrites mentioned, hipsters will never live among them.

 

A pretty unique thing about the west side of Cincinnati is that it's actually quicker/more efficient to take a ferry (you and your car!) across the river to get to the airport rather than driving the entire way. At least I think that's the case or the system wouldn't exist. I always wanted to take the Anderson Ferry but the only times I flew out of CVG were when I lived in Clifton so it wouldn't have made sense. I never had an excuse to actually use it and I regret that because I'm a nerd when it comes to alternate modes of transportation.

I've heard anecdotal stories of a lot of crime in that area.  But again some people think Lakewood is scary.

 

It's like that in many parts of central Toledo too. My neighborhood is an island of low crime in part because we've contracted with a private security company. About two nights ago, a screaming woman woke me up after midnight. When I went to the window, I saw a figure flailing around in the middle of the street. I couldnt tell if she'd been hit by a car, or what. I called 911 (first time ever) and Toledo PD was on the scene before I could get down the stairs. Husband would not let me go outside until they arrived. Turns out she was higher than a kite, without shoes, and abandoned by someone named Jim.

 

When I tell stories like this to suburbanites and others I know, they recoil, and reaffirm that they couldn't live in such an environment. I've lived in some pretty rough places, and have learned that a good portion of what people fear isn't really crime, but hardship. They don't want to be confronted with homeless people, or people in need. (For sure, it's easier for me to live in an environment like this as a big tall white dude; if I just stand a little taller, I can usually dissuade people from messing with me.)

A pretty unique thing about the west side of Cincinnati is that it's actually quicker/more efficient to take a ferry (you and your car!) across the river to get to the airport rather than driving the entire way. At least I think that's the case or the system wouldn't exist. I always wanted to take the Anderson Ferry but the only times I flew out of CVG were when I lived in Clifton so it wouldn't have made sense. I never had an excuse to actually use it and I regret that because I'm a nerd when it comes to alternate modes of transportation.

 

My friend's dad was a mechanic at Delta and took the ferry every single day to and from work for like 20+ years. 

 

You are correct about west side stagnation -- there is virtually zero infill construction, anywhere.  I'd go so far as to say with some certainty that a new house hasn't been built on the west side in the established areas (from Glenway east to the city) in 30 years.  I was a teenager when the sewers were extended and nobody anticipated then that the new subdivisions would cause the established west side to start collapsing into Section 8 rentals. 

 

I've heard anecdotal stories of a lot of crime in that area.  But again some people think Lakewood is scary.

 

It's like that in many parts of central Toledo too. My neighborhood is an island of low crime in part because we've contracted with a private security company. About two nights ago, a screaming woman woke me up after midnight. When I went to the window, I saw a figure flailing around in the middle of the street. I couldnt tell if she'd been hit by a car, or what. I called 911 (first time ever) and Toledo PD was on the scene before I could get down the stairs. Husband would not let me go outside until they arrived. Turns out she was higher than a kite, without shoes, and abandoned by someone named Jim.

 

When I tell stories like this to suburbanites and others I know, they recoil, and reaffirm that they couldn't live in such an environment. I've lived in some pretty rough places, and have learned that a good portion of what people fear isn't really crime, but hardship. They don't want to be confronted with homeless people, or people in need. (For sure, it's easier for me to live in an environment like this as a big tall white dude; if I just stand a little taller, I can usually dissuade people from messing with me.)

 

It's not just suburbanites. Many people pay a premium to live in urban neighborhoods where they can avoid the big city problems you speak of. You just mentioned that your urban neighborhood contracted a private security company. They sound like the Short North Alliance.

A pretty unique thing about the west side of Cincinnati is that it's actually quicker/more efficient to take a ferry (you and your car!) across the river to get to the airport rather than driving the entire way. At least I think that's the case or the system wouldn't exist. I always wanted to take the Anderson Ferry but the only times I flew out of CVG were when I lived in Clifton so it wouldn't have made sense. I never had an excuse to actually use it and I regret that because I'm a nerd when it comes to alternate modes of transportation.

 

My friend's dad was a mechanic at Delta and took the ferry every single day to and from work for like 20+ years. 

 

You are correct about west side stagnation -- there is virtually zero infill construction, anywhere.  I'd go so far as to say with some certainty that a new house hasn't been built on the west side in the established areas (from Glenway east to the city) in 30 years.  I was a teenager when the sewers were extended and nobody anticipated then that the new subdivisions would cause the established west side to start collapsing into Section 8 rentals. 

 

 

I always viewed Price Hill (Lower and East) as being extremely similar to Franklinton in Columbus, except that Franklinton at least has the advantage of being well-connected to downtown and everywhere else in the city.

 

Price Hill is one of those areas you root for but you just know it isn't going to go anywhere.

 

Cincinnati has so many geographical constraints, but man does it make for a pictureesque city with interesting neighborhoods.

 

My friend's dad was a mechanic at Delta and took the ferry every single day to and from work for like 20+ years. 

 

You are correct about west side stagnation -- there is virtually zero infill construction, anywhere.  I'd go so far as to say with some certainty that a new house hasn't been built on the west side in the established areas (from Glenway east to the city) in 30 years.  I was a teenager when the sewers were extended and nobody anticipated then that the new subdivisions would cause the established west side to start collapsing into Section 8 rentals. 

 

The impossibly quick lifetime arc of a lot of postwar suburbs (Euclid; Maple/Garfield Heights; Bridgetown/most of western Cincy; Trotwood and to a lesser extent Huber Heights) has always fascinated me. The speed at which some of these places went from being white picket fence boomtowns to being completely undesirable just seems unmatched in the long evolution of the American city. What's even more interesting is how some, like Fairview Park or Kettering, manage to hold on fairly well and remain stable and somewhat desirable, but others have just completely imploded 40-50 years after first coming into existence despite having the same housing stock.

I actually think that Cleveland's post-WW2 suburbs have held up exceptionally well, despite Cleveland's obvious hardship. If I had to choose a post-WW2 suburb to live in, in any of the 3-Cs, it'd be outside of Cleveland. No joke.

Some of the Cincy listings I’ve seen you and others post are so low it’s hard to believe.

 

It's real.  If it's a great house in an okay area instead of a yuppie area, the thing is half price or less and takes 2-3 months to sell.  It's amazing the way that people fight over small 1-bathroom houses in the "hot" inner-ring suburbs but ignore that exact same house a mile a away. 

 

Well, in Cincinnati we have dozens of neighborhoods with cute, historic, single-family homes densely packed on to walkable streets. However, only some of those neighborhoods have a thriving neighborhood business districts and businesses that you would want to walk to; and for that reason, homes in those neighborhoods are more expensive. West Side neighborhoods would double or triple in value if the city acquired failing shopping plazas like Glenway Crossing and redeveloped them in a similar way to Grandview Yard.

Are you suggesting that Cranley's Vinyl Village isn't dense and walkable enough to revive East Price Hill?

In Cincinnati, there's very much a sense of status that comes with living in each neighborhood. For Christ's sake, you're talking about 52 distinct neighborhoods. Let's not discount that or pretend it doesn't exist. It's not all about walkability, amenities and whatnot.

 

Cincinnati's local gov't has never cared about the west side. That isn't where power in local gov't resided when I lived there and I'm sure it's still true, now.

 

I've heard anecdotal stories of a lot of crime in that area.  But again some people think Lakewood is scary.

 

It's like that in many parts of central Toledo too. My neighborhood is an island of low crime in part because we've contracted with a private security company. About two nights ago, a screaming woman woke me up after midnight. When I went to the window, I saw a figure flailing around in the middle of the street. I couldnt tell if she'd been hit by a car, or what. I called 911 (first time ever) and Toledo PD was on the scene before I could get down the stairs. Husband would not let me go outside until they arrived. Turns out she was higher than a kite, without shoes, and abandoned by someone named Jim.

 

When I tell stories like this to suburbanites and others I know, they recoil, and reaffirm that they couldn't live in such an environment. I've lived in some pretty rough places, and have learned that a good portion of what people fear isn't really crime, but hardship. They don't want to be confronted with homeless people, or people in need. (For sure, it's easier for me to live in an environment like this as a big tall white dude; if I just stand a little taller, I can usually dissuade people from messing with me.)

 

It's not just suburbanites. Many people pay a premium to live in urban neighborhoods where they can avoid the big city problems you speak of. You just mentioned that your urban neighborhood contracted a private security company. They sound like the Short North Alliance.

 

I live in the Old West End in Toledo, very close to the Toledo Museum of Art. The race and class dynamics in this neighborhood are very interesting; I've read a couple academic theses on it from University of Toledo graduate students. Plenty of coded language, and the 'hood's Facebook page features regular flame wars when the language is not coded enough.

 

Everywhere in Toledo, there seems to be a feeling that the city is rebounding, seeing investment and renaissance last witnessed in the 1980s. The Jeep factory is humming along, and there has been some business reinvestment in the immediate downtown area. But I wince when people call it a "boom" - it seems like the region is just beginning to recover from the 2008 Recession, which itself followed eight years of tepid growth. Houses are selling, and there are fewer empty storefronts. But there is almost no new construction in the city itself, and the suburban areas are still overstocked with commercial properties. Warehousing is small-time here, so there aren't many drivers of post 2008 growth here. It helps that Detroit isn't in freefall anymore, and I think Toledoans are recognizing that if **Detroit** can have some kind of comeback downtown, then maybe Toledo isn't that scary. I don't expect any population growth in the city, or the metro in 2020 though. Toledo is nowhere near a destination for anyone outside of the immediate region.

Toledo's fate is definitely more closely tied to Detroit's than it is to Ohio, which is both a blessing and a curse. It can be hard to get spinoff development when 1) you're across state lines, 2) you're just a little bit too far away, 3) Detroit has so much work that still needs to happen before any big-league guys would think to look to Toledo and 4) Detroit has the branding. In the short and medium term, Toledo needs to work on developing new neighborhood nodes outside of the good work they've started doing downtown. I love the Old West End, but there isn't much to draw people to the area outside of checking out the grand old homes and of course the art museum. The area around UT is pretty weak at the moment, as well. I think the lack of neighborhood business districts is a pretty big hindrance that currently is hurting Toledo's redevelopment compared to its peer-ish cities like Dayton and Akron.

Indian Hill is one of the richest places in America, new study shows

 

It turns out Indian Hill isn't just the richest place in the Cincinnati region, it's the richest in the Midwest – and one of the richest in the country.

 

Bloomberg on March 5 released an analysis of 2016 census data and found that Indian Hill, the suburban village east of Cincinnati, was the 12th-richest area in the U.S., with an average household income of $314,007. That's up $8,447 from data reported in 2015.

 

That also makes Indian Hill the richest place in the Midwest, followed closely by the Chicago suburbs of Winnetka, Ill. at No. 13, and Glencoe, Ill. at No. 15.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/03/09/indian-hill-is-one-of-the-richest-places-in.html

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/news/2018/03/09/mayor-ginther-on-why-tax-incentives-public.html

 

There was a conversation a while back about why some projects in Columbus inner core may be stalling or slowing. This is another reason why.

 

There is an affordable housing problem in many cities now, the question is what is really the right way to tackle it.

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/news/2018/03/09/mayor-ginther-on-why-tax-incentives-public.html

 

There is an affordable housing problem in many cities now, the question is what is really the right way to tackle it.

 

San Diego just approved housing code amendments that:

 

-relax zoning to allow more live/work developments

-streamline environmental review process

-increase building heights

-allow more granny flats

-developer incentives for middle income and low income units

 

Not a fix, but a good first step. These passed with strong bipartisan support, which is worth noting. I’m assuming Ohio cities are keeping tabs on these kinds of incentives.

How were they able to get strong bipartisan support? Is it just that crazy California real estate prices are shifting what's acceptable politically? Or were they able to market the issue in such a way to get broad support?

Great question. I believe it’s because the issue of rising costs and homelessness has finally reached a certain level. Most people realize it needs to be addressed right now.