^ I get that, but the commuting methodology has led us to counter-intuitive results, like having a rural county in Indiana that is 60 miles from Downtown Cincinnati included in the 'metropolitan area'. Stuff like this makes MSA seem like a pretty silly statistic to use for any sort of analysis. There should be some sort of contiguous development component to MSA designation, I think. Or maybe we should just use Urbanized Area for discussions, and eschew MSA altogether.

 

I know (think?) all of this stuff is decided by commuting patterns, but if Cuyahoga and Summit counties are in separate MSAs because they are both self-sustaining and have large job bases, how does Orange County and it's 3 million people get added to LA's MSA? How does Alameda County (Oakland) get lumped in with San Francisco's MSA? It seems like there are several examples of this around the country, yet Cleveland and Akron remain separate. I have hypothesized in the past that Cuyahoga Valley National Park has contributed to the separation, but I have nothing other than a hunch to support that. Does anyone know if there is a database with commuting numbers by county? That would be very interesting data, I think.

 

You're completely right. Its not consistent. Summit and Portage counties are very tied to the economy of Cleveland and many communities in those counties would not exist without Cleveland. Akron City itself is tied to Cleveland. Akron should be be part of the Cleveland MSA. Akron actively fights this though as they want their own identity, which is silly as it hurts both them and the region.

 

If the commuting pattern methodology were the rule for figuring what counties are in an MSA, how could Akron "fight" it? You would think it would just be an "It is what it is" situation and the Akron MSA and Cleveland MSA, for that matter, would have to bare it. Is there an active fight, or are the commuting patterns just not yet at that threshold? I would imaging, and know for a fact there are quite a few Cuyahoga residents that go to Summit or Portage counties for work as well.

^It's not just commuting patterns. Its also matters if a county is an economic center itself. the county in Indiana discussed above is just rural and has ties to Cincy, so it was included. Plenty of people in summit county drive to Cleveland each day for work. But Akron is its own city, so additional rules must be overcome to tie the two together.

Akron has no say in whether the Census consider it part of the Cleveland MSA or not. It is a strong enough node to have its own commuter flows that are dominant within Summit/Portage. It is part of the CSA with Cleveland because no two Ohio counties have more commuting between them than Summit-Cuyahoga, plus Akron-area residents watch/listen/read Cleveland media, go to sporting/recreational events in Cleveland, and vice-versa. But they could survive without each other, albeit with some minor inconveniences.

I know (think?) all of this stuff is decided by commuting patterns, but if Cuyahoga and Summit counties are in separate MSAs because they are both self-sustaining and have large job bases, how does Orange County and it's 3 million people get added to LA's MSA? How does Alameda County (Oakland) get lumped in with San Francisco's MSA? It seems like there are several examples of this around the country, yet Cleveland and Akron remain separate. I have hypothesized in the past that Cuyahoga Valley National Park has contributed to the separation, but I have nothing other than a hunch to support that. Does anyone know if there is a database with commuting numbers by county? That would be very interesting data, I think.

 

Well, Oakland and San Francisco are obvious (two-way commuting) much like NYC to Jersey City or Washington DC to Arlington.  Orange County lacks a significant core office center (Santa Ana, Irvine, and Costa Mesa aren't cutting it) and is clearly an extended arm of Los Angeles, like Oakland County is to Detroit.  Akron is generally self-sustainable and in a region of (lack of a better term) stagnant growth, it isn't a surprise it retains its own MSA.  The case could be made why Akron and Canton aren't a MSA by now (shared airport, etc) but, again, stagnant growth + old office city = own thang, to quote David Pumpkins.  If the region were growing faster, there'd certainly be more MSA absorption.

Cleveland-Akron is one of 3-4 regions where the MSA is too small and the CSA is too big. The others are the Bay Area, the Research Triangle, and the Triad. The BART extension in the East Bay might finally push the MSA definition to match the common definition of the Bay Area, but I'm not sure what would need to happen for Cleveland-Akron to merge. Commuter rail between Cleveland and Akron? More sprawl in Macedonia and Twinsburg?

So why all the talk about Combining Cincy/Dayton when there really is not the same talk about Cleve/Akron. Both those cities are closer to each other, share a TV market and have other commonalities. To me Akron was just as close to the suburbs of Cleveland as some of them were to downtown Cleveland.

So why all the talk about Combining Cincy/Dayton when there really is not the same talk about Cleve/Akron. Both those cities are closer to each other, share a TV market and have other commonalities. To me Akron was just as close to the suburbs of Cleveland as some of them were to downtown Cleveland.

 

Uh...Akron is combined with Cleveland into a CSA.

So why all the talk about Combining Cincy/Dayton when there really is not the same talk about Cleve/Akron. Both those cities are closer to each other, share a TV market and have other commonalities. To me Akron was just as close to the suburbs of Cleveland as some of them were to downtown Cleveland.

 

Because Cleveland and Akron are already in the same CSA but Cincy and Dayton aren't.

 

Edit: had page loaded before ColDay's reply, lol.

One of the simple joys in life is watching people wail about Cin-Day and Clakron.

You mean Clakton!  Can't forget Canton!

^ but isn't the talk about combining Cin-day to the same MSA not CSA or was it only the CSA?

It was only the CSA.  Cincinnati and Dayton will never merge into a MSA.

Akron has no say in whether the Census consider it part of the Cleveland MSA or not. It is a strong enough node to have its own commuter flows that are dominant within Summit/Portage. It is part of the CSA with Cleveland because no two Ohio counties have more commuting between them than Summit-Cuyahoga, plus Akron-area residents watch/listen/read Cleveland media, go to sporting/recreational events in Cleveland, and vice-versa. But they could survive without each other, albeit with some minor inconveniences.

These metro areas (CSAs/MSAs) aren’t merged without local buy-in, no matter what the commuting patterns say. In other words, for Cleveland/Akron to become a MSA, Akron officials would have to agree to this. If Akron were become part of the Cleveland MSA, it would essentially become a Cleveland suburb (in many ways, it already IS a Cleveland suburb), and I’m pretty sure that many Akron officials would have a problem with that. Remember, the Summit county line comes within 10 miles of Downtown Cleveland. All of the cities in Summit County north of the turnpike are factually Cleveland suburbs, not Akron suburbs. The bottom line is that everyone knows that Akron is a part of Greater Cleveland. I think we sometimes get too caught up in these MSA definitions. They are so inconsistent defined across the country, that they’re basically useless in comparing metro areas. At least CSAs are more consistently defined, although many are too broad.

Akron has no say in whether the Census consider it part of the Cleveland MSA or not. It is a strong enough node to have its own commuter flows that are dominant within Summit/Portage. It is part of the CSA with Cleveland because no two Ohio counties have more commuting between them than Summit-Cuyahoga, plus Akron-area residents watch/listen/read Cleveland media, go to sporting/recreational events in Cleveland, and vice-versa. But they could survive without each other, albeit with some minor inconveniences.

These metro areas (CSAs/MSAs) aren’t merged without local buy-in, no matter what the commuting patterns say. In other words, for Cleveland/Akron to become a MSA, Akron officials would have to agree to this. If Akron were become part of the Cleveland MSA, it would essentially become a Cleveland suburb (in many ways, it already IS a Cleveland suburb), and I’m pretty sure that many Akron officials would have a problem with that. Remember, the Summit county line comes within 10 miles of Downtown Cleveland. All of the cities in Summit County north of the turnpike are factually Cleveland suburbs, not Akron suburbs. The bottom line is that everyone knows that Akron is a part of Greater Cleveland. I think we sometimes get too caught up in these MSA definitions. They are so inconsistent defined across the country, that they’re basically useless in comparing metro areas. At least CSAs are more consistently defined, although many are too broad.

 

This isn't true. Local officials have no say in the MSA definitions. Zero. It's just a tool the government uses for statistical purposes and there is a clear definition available on the Census Bureau website.

 

Now, Akron would have a say in whether they kept their own Metropolitan Planning Organization (AMATS) or became a part of NOACA and I would venture a guess that they would want to keep their own MPO. This is what happened when Wilmington, Delaware was folded into the Philly MSA. They kept their MPO (WIMAPCO) instead of joining with DVRPC.

^ but isn't the talk about combining Cin-day to the same MSA not CSA or was it only the CSA?

 

The confusion lies in the fact that people just don't understand the difference. Newspapers often say MSA but in actuality they would become part of the same CSA first. It's pretty technical and journalists don't really have a good grasp on the difference.

Two Ohio cities illustrate a growing divide between the old and new economy

Just 70 miles apart, the business of Dayton and Columbus are headed in different directions.

by Dante Chinni and Deepa Shivaram / Sep.07.2018 / 4:00 AM PDT

 

COLUMBUS, Ohio — The national economy continues to hum right along, riding a nine-year wave of recovery from the depths of the 2008 financial crisis. Unemployment is low and confidence is high among consumers.

 

But inside the numbers, the U.S. economy is still churning out both winners and losers. New economy jobs, such as those in tech and creative fields, offer a path toward higher incomes and more opportunities. While manufacturing jobs, even as they’ve increased in the last few years, still make up a far smaller part of the U.S. workforce than they did just two decades ago and are not the wealth creators they once were.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/two-ohio-cities-illustrate-growing-divide-between-old-new-economy-n904766

Akron has no say in whether the Census consider it part of the Cleveland MSA or not. It is a strong enough node to have its own commuter flows that are dominant within Summit/Portage. It is part of the CSA with Cleveland because no two Ohio counties have more commuting between them than Summit-Cuyahoga, plus Akron-area residents watch/listen/read Cleveland media, go to sporting/recreational events in Cleveland, and vice-versa. But they could survive without each other, albeit with some minor inconveniences.

These metro areas (CSAs/MSAs) aren’t merged without local buy-in, no matter what the commuting patterns say. In other words, for Cleveland/Akron to become a MSA, Akron officials would have to agree to this. If Akron were become part of the Cleveland MSA, it would essentially become a Cleveland suburb (in many ways, it already IS a Cleveland suburb), and I’m pretty sure that many Akron officials would have a problem with that. Remember, the Summit county line comes within 10 miles of Downtown Cleveland. All of the cities in Summit County north of the turnpike are factually Cleveland suburbs, not Akron suburbs. The bottom line is that everyone knows that Akron is a part of Greater Cleveland. I think we sometimes get too caught up in these MSA definitions. They are so inconsistent defined across the country, that they’re basically useless in comparing metro areas. At least CSAs are more consistently defined, although many are too broad.

 

This isn't true. Local officials have no say in the MSA definitions. Zero. It's just a tool the government uses for statistical purposes and there is a clear definition available on the Census Bureau website.

 

Pontiac is correct--it is true. Locals have influence--especially those with fancy lobbyists in Washington. No way Akron becomes part of CLE without Akron raising hell. So it comes down to political will in Washington if its worth the fight. CLE wouldn't fight for it as they don't give a crap (about much) even though it would strongly benefit the city.

Akron has no say in whether the Census consider it part of the Cleveland MSA or not. It is a strong enough node to have its own commuter flows that are dominant within Summit/Portage. It is part of the CSA with Cleveland because no two Ohio counties have more commuting between them than Summit-Cuyahoga, plus Akron-area residents watch/listen/read Cleveland media, go to sporting/recreational events in Cleveland, and vice-versa. But they could survive without each other, albeit with some minor inconveniences.

These metro areas (CSAs/MSAs) aren’t merged without local buy-in, no matter what the commuting patterns say. In other words, for Cleveland/Akron to become a MSA, Akron officials would have to agree to this. If Akron were become part of the Cleveland MSA, it would essentially become a Cleveland suburb (in many ways, it already IS a Cleveland suburb), and I’m pretty sure that many Akron officials would have a problem with that. Remember, the Summit county line comes within 10 miles of Downtown Cleveland. All of the cities in Summit County north of the turnpike are factually Cleveland suburbs, not Akron suburbs. The bottom line is that everyone knows that Akron is a part of Greater Cleveland. I think we sometimes get too caught up in these MSA definitions. They are so inconsistent defined across the country, that they’re basically useless in comparing metro areas. At least CSAs are more consistently defined, although many are too broad.

 

This isn't true. Local officials have no say in the MSA definitions. Zero. It's just a tool the government uses for statistical purposes and there is a clear definition available on the Census Bureau website.

 

Pontiac is correct--it is true. Locals have influence--especially those with fancy lobbyists in Washington. No way Akron becomes part of CLE without Akron raising hell. So it comes down to political will in Washington if its worth the fight. CLE wouldn't fight for it as they don't give a crap (about much) even though it would strongly benefit the city.

 

Based on what source? There is literally a formula that they do NOT deviate from. It is use for statistical purposes ONLY and local officials are not involved in the process in any way. There's no one to lobby. The law is already on the books and bureaucrats at the Census Bureau have no leeway in how they implement it. I know this first hand, as I have worked very closely with Census officials for a decade.

 

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2010-06-28/pdf/2010-15605.pdf

Truth be told , in no way is Akron a suburb of Cleveland. Akron in so many ways is moving farther away from being aligned with Cleveland and much more with Canton. Culturally, economically, and socially this is true. Akron is and always have been self- sustaining, Goodyear, Bridgestone, First Energy, nearby Timken, Diebold, Hoover and many other smaller companies , and a growing technology and new business development scene. Too many people confuse Akron with Parma, or Brookpark, or some other Cleveland dependent suburb, it couldn't be further from the truth. If Akron was not a Cleveland suburb when Cleveland had 876,000 population in the 60s,  what makes one think it would be one now when Clevelands population is closer to 350,000 and Akrons pop is 200,000? You cant say its growth. Also so-called Cleve suburbs in Summit County is more a testament to Akrons influence than Clevelands, as they are moving further away. The Census bureau HAS IT RIGHT.

If Akron was not a Cleveland suburb when Cleveland had 876,000 population in the 60s,  what makes one think it would be one now when Clevelands population is closer to 350,000 and Akrons pop is 200,000? You cant say its growth.

 

You could say they are more connected now than then because of sprawl. I-77 wasn't connected to Cleveland's Willow freeway until the Valley View bridge was built in 1975. Painesville, Mentor, Avon Lake..etc probably weren't considered suburbs of Cleveland either in the 60's. Akron is not a suburb, but the urban boundries have been blurred a lot since the 60's. There used to be a lot more rural area and way less freeway connection between them.

 

https://case.edu/ech/articles/w/willow-freeway

If Akron was not a Cleveland suburb when Cleveland had 876,000 population in the 60s,  what makes one think it would be one now when Clevelands population is closer to 350,000 and Akrons pop is 200,000? You cant say its growth. Also so-called Cleve suburbs in Summit County is more a testament to Akrons influence than Clevelands, as they are moving further away. The Census bureau HAS IT RIGHT.

What you fail to realize is that while the populations of Cleveland and Akron have declined over the decades, the suburbs between them along the rt8/rt91 corridor have grown a great deal since the 60s. The Cleveland suburbs of Macedonia, Twinsburg and Aurora have grown significantly since the 60s. So have Hudson, Stow and Streetsboro. Cleveland and Akron, because of this growth, are now more connected than ever!! So your point about Cleveland having a population of 800000 decades ago and 350000 now is totally irrelevant, and the census has this one DEAD WRONG!!

Whether or not Akron should be part of the Cleveland MSA is only part of the discussion.  The other part is the problem with drawing MSA boundaries only on county lines.  Even if Akron and Cleveland really should remain separate, there are areas in the Akron MSA that belong in the Cleveland MSA, and even a couple areas in the Cleveland MSA that belong in the Akron MSA.

 

This may only seem absurd to people that know the Cleveland area well, but Wadsworth is in the Cleveland MSA, and Northfield is in the Akron MSA.  That is crazy to me.

^Its all Cleveland. Re Wadsworth, here are the top five places and related percentages where their residents work:

 

1. Wadsworth city, OH  14.7%  --Cleveland MSA

2. Akron city, OH  13.0%--Akron

3. Cleveland city, OH 9.3% -- Cleveland

4. Medina city, OH 3.7%  --Cleveland

5. Barberton city, OH 2.7%  --Akron

 

Same deal with Northfield. Its Cleveland.  Here are the top five cities of work:

 

Cleveland city, OH 10.0%

Solon city, OH 7.7%

Northfield village, OH   6.4%

Twinsburg city, OH 4.1%

Macedonia city, OH 3.8%

^^I’d agree with this assessment. I’d add Sagamore Hills to the Cleveland MSA since it is very similar to Walton Hills. I would think the bulk of the people living there are working in Cuyahoga county.  I’m undecided about Twinsburg. That could go either way to me. The I480 exits and the fact that so many people are probably working in Solon would tip it to Cleveland MSA.

I would guess Twinsburg heavily favors Cleveland.  For me, Hudson would be the one that could go either way, although I'd bet that may even have more people working in Cleveland.  Pugu, where did you get those stats?

If there even must be a separation between Akron and Cleveland, Wadsworth belongs in the Akron MSA without a doubt. It is in every respect a suburb of Akron from its culture, to schools, architecture and infrastructure. I'd certainly argue that the county lines should be redrawn to include it in Summit County as opposed to Medina County.

 

I would also argue for similar reasons that Twinsburg is much more of a Cleveland suburb than an Akron one. It's culture, schools, architecture and infrastructure are much more similar to what you find in Cleveland's suburbs than in Akron's suburbs. The northern tip of Summit County could easily be reallocated to Cuyahoga County without it seeming out of context. It feels quite incidental to Summit County and Akron.

 

Hudson is about 50/50 Akron/Cleveland from my experience. More people in Hudson may work in Cleveland than Akron, but there is a surprising amount of interest there in what goes on in Akron and in Summit County in general. They work in the north, but tend to look south towards Akron.

I don't think the Census will ever move off of using counties/parishes as part of creating MSA/CSAs because different states structure local municipalities differently.

 

For example:

 

In Virginia, most people live outside of city municipalities and most "towns" are just simply PO addresses. It's not just a rural thing, it's true even around the DC metro area. It would be too complex to figure out where one MSA ends and begins without using county borders.

 

So for countrywide standardization it makes sense to stick with counties however imperfect it is.

Twinsburg. 

I don't think the Census will ever move off of using counties/parishes as part of creating MSA/CSAs because different states structure local municipalities differently.

 

For example:

 

In Virginia, most people live outside of city municipalities and most "towns" are just simply PO addresses. It's not just a rural thing, it's true even around the DC metro area. It would be to complex to figure out where one MSA ends and begins without using county borders.

 

So for countrywide standardization it makes sense to stick with counties however imperfect it is.

 

I agree that it would be impractical to change how the boundaries are drawn.  I am just pointing out that it causes problems in separating Cleveland's MSA from Akron's, mostly to the detriment of the size of the Cleveland MSA.

ooops. ignore the Franklin County in the data above. Thats an error. Those people work of for the State of Ohio--could be downtown CLE or other state agency in the area, but the official "HQ" address is Columbus, so it shows up that way.

 

And here's Hudson:

 

Twinsburg.

 

I'm actually curious about Streetsboro and Hudson. I would think those two cities learn toward Akron but I'd like to see how far Cleveland's commuting patterns run. Do you have those stats?

The data is from here: 

https://onthemap.ces.census.gov/

 

Great resource.  You can also do the opposite. Above I said Twinsburg was where people lived. But you could say, it is where people WORK and then determine from where they are commuting from. 

AmrapinVA---here's Streetboro:

 

The data is from here: 

https://onthemap.ces.census.gov/

 

Great resource.  You can also do the opposite. Above I said Twinsburg was where people lived. But you could say, it is where people WORK and then determine from where they are commuting from.

 

Thanks Pugu!

 

It looks like even Hudson is close to a 50/50 Cleveland/Akron split which is what I figured.

ooops. ignore the Franklin County in the data above. Thats an error. Those people work of for the State of Ohio--could be downtown CLE or other state agency in the area, but the official "HQ" address is Columbus, so it shows up that way.

 

Not an error. They ask people where they actually commute to. It's just that Franklin County is a big employment draw. Not surprising that there are some long distance commuters to there. They might not be doing it five days per week though.

 

Here is where Franklin County residents work. You see that the other big urban counties show up because they are employment draws as well.

^No one asks people where they live/work. Its based on employer data submitted to the gov't. the data is not perfect. Sometimes the head office shows up on as place of work than the actual place. In this case, they could work for the state or for a columbus company like huntington bank. You really think 11,000 people commute from Columbus to CLE each day/week?  Certainly SOME PEOPLE do, but its likely not that many. Most probably work for a local branch/store of a Cleveland-based company.

I don't think the Census will ever move off of using counties/parishes as part of creating MSA/CSAs because different states structure local municipalities differently.

 

For example:

 

In Virginia, most people live outside of city municipalities and most "towns" are just simply PO addresses. It's not just a rural thing, it's true even around the DC metro area. It would be too complex to figure out where one MSA ends and begins without using county borders.

 

So for countrywide standardization it makes sense to stick with counties however imperfect it is.

 

Plus we already have a statistical tool for what is being talked about here. It is called urbanized area, and it is different than MSA. MSAs are at the county level. Urbanized areas are better representations of how bit a city actually is.

Thanks, DEPACincy[/member], the urbanized areas look pretty accurate to me with the Akron/Cleveland split occuring south of Richfield and between Hudson and Stow.

I don't think the Census will ever move off of using counties/parishes as part of creating MSA/CSAs because different states structure local municipalities differently.

 

For example:

 

In Virginia, most people live outside of city municipalities and most "towns" are just simply PO addresses. It's not just a rural thing, it's true even around the DC metro area. It would be too complex to figure out where one MSA ends and begins without using county borders.

 

So for countrywide standardization it makes sense to stick with counties however imperfect it is.

 

Plus we already have a statistical tool for what is being talked about here. It is called urbanized area, and it is different than MSA. MSAs are at the county level. Urbanized areas are better representations of how bit a city actually is.

 

I forgot about the urbanized area tool. Clearly shows Wadsworth as part of Akron which makes sense. It also shows Hudson and Streetsboro as part of Cleveland which is interesting. I think most people associate those two 'burbs as more to do with Akron.

Based on the first map you can see that Cleveland extends as far to the south as the canadian border is to the north.

Thanks for linking to that site, Pugu[/member].  I actually found the most interesting dataset to be Distance/Direction using the radar map.  Using that, you can see that *nothing* in the Cleveland MSA other than Wadsworth has any significant pull towards Akron, and in fact nearly every city within but bordering the southern edge of the Cleveland MSA pulls almost exclusively in the direction of Cleveland.  However, nearly every city in the Akron MSA bordering the Cleveland MSA also pulls heavily towards Cleveland.  What surprised me the most was that even Cuyahoga Falls, Peninsula, and Bath all have a nearly even split between commuters traveling into the Cleveland area vs. towards Akron.  Copley was the first point at which I hit a true Akron suburb with very little pull towards Cleveland.

i said it before and i'll say it again

 

northern summit is basically just garfield and maple expats, so clearly inhabited by "clevelanders"

 

it's no different from western lake county which is basically just collinwood and euclid expats

 

nothing about akron pulled garfield and maple people into northern summit, it was just the next closest open space

^No one asks people where they live/work. Its based on employer data submitted to the gov't. the data is not perfect. Sometimes the head office shows up on as place of work than the actual place. In this case, they could work for the state or for a columbus company like huntington bank. You really think 11,000 people commute from Columbus to CLE each day/week?  Certainly SOME PEOPLE do, but its likely not that many. Most probably work for a local branch/store of a Cleveland-based company.

 

My bad, I was thinking of ACS data. This is LODES. Still I think a hefty bit of those people are commuting between Cbus and CLE. Not every day, mind you. They might also be telecommuting. But for the most part this data has gotten better over the years. Though you rightly point out that it isn't perfect.

I forgot about the urbanized area tool. Clearly shows Wadsworth as part of Akron which makes sense. It also shows Hudson and Streetsboro as part of Cleveland which is interesting. I think most people associate those two 'burbs as more to do with Akron.

 

I disagree.  I think both are viewed as Cleveland suburbs (especially Streetsboro) with a little Akron influence.

I forgot about the urbanized area tool. Clearly shows Wadsworth as part of Akron which makes sense. It also shows Hudson and Streetsboro as part of Cleveland which is interesting. I think most people associate those two 'burbs as more to do with Akron.

 

I disagree.  I think both are viewed as Cleveland suburbs (especially Streetsboro) with a little Akron influence.

 

I can see Streetboro more because of the I-480 alignment. Hudson is pretty convenient to downtown Akron using the SR8 expressway. Maybe it's just how Parmesans' view Summit County.  ;D

Why in the world would Akron fight to be in the Cleveland MSA when Cleveland boosters call Akron a suburb of Cleveland. While Akron clearly isn't a peer of Cleveland it obvious to anyone who knows anything about the city and it's past or present that it's not suburb of Cleveland.  I would expect for Akron and Canton to form a MSA before Akron and Cleveland.

Why in the world would Akron fight to be in the Cleveland MSA when Cleveland boosters call Akron a suburb of Cleveland. While Akron clearly isn't a peer of Cleveland it obvious to anyone who knows anything about the city and it's past or present that it's not suburb of Cleveland.  I would expect for Akron and Canton to form a MSA before Akron and Cleveland.

 

I would never consider Akron to be a suburb of Cleveland.  It's a city in its own right.  But I think it's in the same metro area.

Why in the world would Akron fight to be in the Cleveland MSA when Cleveland boosters call Akron a suburb of Cleveland. While Akron clearly isn't a peer of Cleveland it obvious to anyone who knows anything about the city and it's past or present that it's not suburb of Cleveland.  I would expect for Akron and Canton to form a MSA before Akron and Cleveland.

 

 

I would never consider Akron to be a suburb of Cleveland.  It's a city in its own right.  But I think it's in the same metro area.

 

There certainly is an argument for that, though living here I would argue it's more connected to Canton on that level.  I also agree with those who believe that the communities north of the Turnpike are Cleveland suburbs in both Summit and Portage Counties.

 

Why in the world would Akron fight to be in the Cleveland MSA when Cleveland boosters call Akron a suburb of Cleveland. While Akron clearly isn't a peer of Cleveland it obvious to anyone who knows anything about the city and it's past or present that it's not suburb of Cleveland.  I would expect for Akron and Canton to form a MSA before Akron and Cleveland.

 

Folks, no one establishes MSAs except the federal government. It's a Census designation for purposes of planning and funding distribution, as established by federal criteria which is set by bureaucratic rulemaking and Congressional statutes. The only way a local government can change that process is to lobby Congress to pass new laws.