Okay, I'm matching color to 2017 tract densities and already noticing some issues.  For example, on the Columbus map, Tract 14 is dark blue, but the density is only 2691.  Yet Tract 920 in Linden is light blue, but has a density of almost 6,000.  Are we sure that the colors are just based on density?

21 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

Okay, I'm matching color to 2017 tract densities and already noticing some issues.  For example, on the Columbus map, Tract 14 is dark blue, but the density is only 2691.  Yet Tract 920 in Linden is light blue, but has a density of almost 6,000.  Are we sure that the colors are just based on density?

 

Population density and density of pavement. And the higher value applies. So an industrial park that is 100% paved and takes up an entire tract, but has zero population, would be given a value of 10 and be classified as urban.

46 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

Population density and density of pavement. And the higher value applies. So an industrial park that is 100% paved and takes up an entire tract, but has zero population, would be given a value of 10 and be classified as urban.

 

Ah okay, well then in that case, I couldn't do a comparison with their standards.  I could do one with population density only, as I have no way of calculating how much of a tract is paved.  

 

In terms of basic density, Franklin County census tracts increased their average density by +315.4 2010-2017.  

Here were the 25 biggest gainers in that period.

1. 1121-Campus: +7463.8

2. 7721-Linden: +3115.1

3. 21-Short North: +2,428.2

4. 9323-Leahwood East Side: +2104.3

5. 22-Italian Village: +2,034.1

6. 6942-Northgate North Columbus: +1951.8

7. 40-Downtown: +1,711.5

8. 20-Victorian Village: +1,666.3

9. 7551-South of Easton: +1,595.9

10. 9331-Eastmoor/Linwood: +1565.2

11. 6933-Forest Park East NE Columbus: +1304.0

12. 52-German Village: +1,283.9

13. 6931-Forest Park East NE Columbus: +1263.5

14. 29-King-Lincoln: +1178.0

15. 330-Linden: +1124.3

16. 7043-Crosswoods Far North: +1094.1

17. 6353-Northcrest NW Columbus: +1092.1

18. 1810-Campus: +1091.8

19. 9322-Beechwood/Shady Lane: +1084.2

20. 2760-Eastmoor: +1083.8

21. 38-Olde Towne East: +1025.3

22. 32-Arena District/Vic Village: +1012.5

23. 910-Linden: +1008.6

24. 30-Downtown: +1000.0

25. 7532- West of Easton: +995.8

 

I don't know if this is the best place for this discussion, but I feel like the "Urban Areas" metric doesn't get used much when talking about relative city size. Everyone likes to use MSAs but those can include weird pockets of far-out counties. THIS LIST seems a little bit more true-to-life as one actually experiences the core urban chunk of a given region.

 

(That said, as with all statistics, one number by itself means absolutely nothing unless you're trying to be political).

25 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said:

I don't know if this is the best place for this discussion, but I feel like the "Urban Areas" metric doesn't get used much when talking about relative city size. Everyone likes to use MSAs but those can include weird pockets of far-out counties. THIS LIST seems a little bit more true-to-life as one actually experiences the core urban chunk of a given region.

 

(That said, as with all statistics, one number by itself means absolutely nothing unless you're trying to be political).

 

52 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said:

I don't know if this is the best place for this discussion, but I feel like the "Urban Areas" metric doesn't get used much when talking about relative city size. Everyone likes to use MSAs but those can include weird pockets of far-out counties. THIS LIST seems a little bit more true-to-life as one actually experiences the core urban chunk of a given region.

 

(That said, as with all statistics, one number by itself means absolutely nothing unless you're trying to be political).

Now if you really want to open a can of worms, try this list: http://www.demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf

 

They have combined Cleveland with Akron but did not combine Cincinnati with Dayton so Cleveland is about 1.1 million higher. Cleveland is higher than Denver on this one! 

9 hours ago, Toddguy said:

Now if you really want to open a can of worms, try this list: http://www.demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf

 

They have combined Cleveland with Akron but did not combine Cincinnati with Dayton so Cleveland is about 1.1 million higher. Cleveland is higher than Denver on this one! 

 

I'd eat this can of worms!

It makes sense to combine Cleveland and Akron. The east side suburbs run into each other. The one question I have is that Akron is already combined with Canton, so do they combine Cle-Akr-Can or is it still Akron-Canton and separately Cleveland-Akron, which can get confusing.

8 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

It makes sense to combine Cleveland and Akron. The east side suburbs run into each other. The one question I have is that Akron is already combined with Canton, so do they combine Cle-Akr-Can or is it still Akron-Canton and separately Cleveland-Akron, which can get confusing.

On the list I noted, they must since there is not a separate listing for Canton and they include on their list for the US any urban area over 100,000.

Edited November 26, 20195 yr by Toddguy

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

It makes sense to combine Cleveland and Akron. The east side suburbs run into each other. The one question I have is that Akron is already combined with Canton, so do they combine Cle-Akr-Can or is it still Akron-Canton and separately Cleveland-Akron, which can get confusing.

 

1 hour ago, Toddguy said:

On the list I noted, they must since there is not a separate listing for Canton and they include on their list for the US any urban area over 100,000.

 

That report uses Combined Statistical Areas (CSA), my personal favorite reference for comparing “city” population. Probably because it actually make Northeast Ohio look pretty good, unlike most lists. Cleveland / Akron / Canton (/ Lorain / Elyria / Lake County) is all one CSA, and it is the 17th largest CSA in the country with a population of 3.6M as of 2018. Denver CSA will probably pass it by the next census. 

 

Another note - that NEO CSA also includes Sandusky, Mansfield, Ashtabula, and New Philadelphia. It’s a lot harder for me to consider those in the same Metro area.  To me the appropriate measure of “one metro area” should be “is there substantial farming and/or other very lightly populated area between those urban cores”.  Similarly, how many people commute daily between those local areas.  By either measure, Akron and Cleveland absolutely belong together - the only unpopulated area in between is the National Park. Certainly Lorain, Elyria, and Lake County all belong with Cleveland by that measure. Canton / Massillon is a bit more of a stretch, but it is still reasonable to consider them in the same metro area. But certainly not Sandusky, Mansfield, Astabula, and New Philly. 

11 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

 

That report uses Combined Statistical Areas (CSA), my personal favorite reference for comparing “city” population. Probably because it actually make Northeast Ohio look pretty good, unlike most lists. Cleveland / Akron / Canton (/ Lorain / Elyria / Lake County) is all one CSA, and it is the 17th largest CSA in the country with a population of 3.6M as of 2018. Denver CSA will probably pass it by the next census. 

 

Another note - that NEO CSA also includes Sandusky, Mansfield, Ashtabula, and New Philadelphia. It’s a lot harder for me to consider those in the same Metro area.  To me the appropriate measure of “one metro area” should be “is there substantial farming and/or other very lightly populated area between those urban cores”.  Similarly, how many people commute daily between those local areas.  By either measure, Akron and Cleveland absolutely belong together - the only unpopulated area in between is the National Park. Certainly Lorain, Elyria, and Lake County all belong with Cleveland by that measure. Canton / Massillon is a bit more of a stretch, but it is still reasonable to consider them in the same metro area. But certainly not Sandusky, Mansfield, Astabula, and New Philly. 

I agree with your post but Mansfield is not a part of the CSA.  However Wooster(Wayne County) was added recently. 

 

1 hour ago, westakron1 said:

I agree with your post but Mansfield is not a part of the CSA.  However Wooster(Wayne County) was added recently. 

 

 I am stunned to learn that I got bad information from Wikipedia. /sarcasm

 

Thank you for educating me. Although New Philly IS still in there and neither it nor Wooster really seem like they should be included with Cleveland. But it does (kinda) make sense to combine them with Canton. And if they’re included with Canton, and it makes sense to combine Canton with Cleveland, then it all becomes one area. Where does one draw the line? 

15 hours ago, BigDipper 80 said:

I don't know if this is the best place for this discussion, but I feel like the "Urban Areas" metric doesn't get used much when talking about relative city size. Everyone likes to use MSAs but those can include weird pockets of far-out counties. THIS LIST seems a little bit more true-to-life as one actually experiences the core urban chunk of a given region.

 

(That said, as with all statistics, one number by itself means absolutely nothing unless you're trying to be political).

 

Each measurement has its pros and cons.  I like Urbanized Area because it shows continuously-connected development in a region, something that MSA, CSA or city limits cannot.  It's just one measure of many.  I think the reason it doesn't get mentioned as much is because the population for them is only measured once per decade, during the decennial Census, rather than annually like all the others.  

14 hours ago, Toddguy said:

Now if you really want to open a can of worms, try this list: http://www.demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf

 

They have combined Cleveland with Akron but did not combine Cincinnati with Dayton so Cleveland is about 1.1 million higher. Cleveland is higher than Denver on this one! 

 

To this day, I still have no idea what standards of measurement that Demographia uses.  They're all over the place.  

2 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

 

That report uses Combined Statistical Areas (CSA), my personal favorite reference for comparing “city” population. Probably because it actually make Northeast Ohio look pretty good, unlike most lists. Cleveland / Akron / Canton (/ Lorain / Elyria / Lake County) is all one CSA, and it is the 17th largest CSA in the country with a population of 3.6M as of 2018. Denver CSA will probably pass it by the next census. 

 

Another note - that NEO CSA also includes Sandusky, Mansfield, Ashtabula, and New Philadelphia. It’s a lot harder for me to consider those in the same Metro area.  To me the appropriate measure of “one metro area” should be “is there substantial farming and/or other very lightly populated area between those urban cores”.  Similarly, how many people commute daily between those local areas.  By either measure, Akron and Cleveland absolutely belong together - the only unpopulated area in between is the National Park. Certainly Lorain, Elyria, and Lake County all belong with Cleveland by that measure. Canton / Massillon is a bit more of a stretch, but it is still reasonable to consider them in the same metro area. But certainly not Sandusky, Mansfield, Astabula, and New Philly. 

 

I tend to think CSA is only good for measuring the size of a media market in a region, but the absolute worst in measuring the size of a core city.  They're far too big.

8 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

To this day, I still have no idea what standards of measurement that Demographia uses.  They're all over the place.  

Funny I was looking for that just a while ago. I think it is adjacent contiguous areas with an urban area that have population densities of at least 1,000 people per square mile. But what is used to determine that? Census tracts? Who knows? I think that they give estimates that seem pretty decent though. Not entirely sure why they would combine Akron/Canton with Cleveland/Lorain and not do the same for the "CinDay" region. Is Cin/Day still not contiguous enough?  If anyone had the data it would be YOU lol.  ?

 

 

Edited November 26, 20195 yr by Toddguy

Just now, Toddguy said:

Funny I was looking for that just a while ago. I think it is adjacent contiguous areas with an urban area that have population densities of at least 1,000 people per square mile. But what is used to determine that? Census tracts? Who knows? I think that they give estimates that seem pretty decent though. Not entirely sure why they would combine Akron/Canton with Cleveland/Lorain and not do the same for the "CinDay" region. Is Cin/Day still not contiguous enough?  If anyone had the data it would be YOU lol.  ?

 

Well, the Census doesn't actually use contiguous development as a factor in determining any of its official population areas, including MSA, contrary to what some people might believe.  It mostly uses commuting patterns.  Only in CSA are Cleveland and Akron listed together for that reason, not in MSA, and why Dayton and Cincinnati are not combined in either one.  That they have some suburban sprawl touching along I-75 doesn't matter and never has.  Demographia may use contiguous, though, but who knows.  

15 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

 

Well, the Census doesn't actually use contiguous development as a factor in determining any of its official population areas, including MSA, contrary to what some people might believe.  It mostly uses commuting patterns.  Only in CSA are Cleveland and Akron listed together for that reason, not in MSA, and why Dayton and Cincinnati are not combined in either one.  That they have some suburban sprawl touching along I-75 doesn't matter and never has.  Demographia may use contiguous, though, but who knows.  

Quote

An urban area is best thought of as the “urban footprint” --- the lighted area (“city lights”) that can be observed from an airplane (or satellite) on a clear.night. National census authorities in Australia, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States designate urban areas. Except in Australia, the authorities generally use a minimum urban density definition of 400 persons per square kilometer (or the nearly identical 1,000 per square mile in the United States) in areas that comprise urban areas. By necessity, average population density data masks significant variations within urban areas. Within urban areas, urban population densities can range from below 400 per square kilometer (1,000 per square mile), particularly in North American urban areas...

 I get this.

Quote

In the United States, single labor markets can be either metropolitan areas, or combined statistical areas (CSAs), which are, in effect, larger metropolitan areas or metropolitan regions, with somewhat less stringent economic interchanges (employment commuting).17 Where continuous urban footprints exist (both in CSAs and metropolitan areas), combines them into a single built-up urban area. For example, the New York built-up urban area stretches from New York to other adjacent built-up urban areas, such as Bridgeport-Stamford, New Haven, Trenton and other metropolitan areas. In addition, the US Census Bureau has retained some urban areas, despite their now continuous urbanization with other urban areas The Census Bureau retains previously separate urbanized areas because these urban areas have historically developed as the functional units of 50 years of urbanized area delineation18). In such cases, the continuous urbanization is combined in Demographia World Urban Areas. Cleveland & Lorain, Ohio and Orlando & Kissimmee, Florida are two examples of this (Table A-1).

I cannot really "get" this last part I will admit.  My mind is too tired today.  It seems to suggest that the US Census Bureau kept Cleveland and Akron separate, and that Demographia has combined them, but the Cleveland CSA does include Akron-so that does not make sense.  It is a mess really.

 

If there is census tract connection between Dayton and Cincinnati that is contiguous and over 1,000 persons per square mile then it should be combined for urban area imo.

 

http://www.demographia.com/db-worldua.pdf

Edited November 26, 20195 yr by Toddguy

3 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

 

 

So basically their designations are fairly arbitrary because they're not applied universally.  

If one used urbanized area around New York, contiguous development would nearly stretch from DC to Boston along the I-95 corridor.  

2 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

So basically their designations are fairly arbitrary because they're not applied universally.  

If one used urbanized area around New York, contiguous development would nearly stretch from DC to Boston along the I-95 corridor.  

Is there any separation in that chain where the population density falls below 1,000 per square mile per census tract though?

 

And yeah...it is well...messy I guess.

Slightly different discussion direction. Here are the top counties for migration into and out of Hamilton County for the period 2013-2017:

 

 

^^ Shouldn't that be in the Ohio migration thread?  Anyways since it is here what is the flow between Franklin Ohio and Hamilton? Also why are y'all moving into Madison County! lol. Why are we # 16-there ain't s$#t here-extended uncool crescent!

 

*how many damn more posts until I can escape "Rhodes Tower" hell and move up to "Great American Tower" relative peace?

Edited November 26, 20195 yr by Toddguy

On 11/18/2019 at 3:56 PM, DEPACincy said:

 

Interesting. It looks like the parts of Madison County that are in the watershed are mostly already classified as "outer suburban."

Those are Plain City in the northeast of the county, West Jefferson in the eastern part, and London(south of 70)Lake Choctaw(north of 70)in the western part of the county. 

19 minutes ago, Toddguy said:

^^ Shouldn't that be in the Ohio migration thread?  Anyways since it is here what is the flow between Franklin Ohio and Hamilton? Also why are y'all moving into Madison County! lol. Why are we # 16-there ain't s$#t here-extended uncool crescent!

 

*how many damn more posts until I can escape "Rhodes Tower" hell and move up to "Great American Tower" relative peace?

 

Maybe. It is Census data though so I thought this was an appropriate place. The other thread doesn't get as much action. 

 

As for Madison County, it's only a net of 146, so it's like 0.01% of the population of Hamco. Margin of error on that is 67, so it could be as low as 79 or as high as 213. But maybe a large employer moved? 

 

Flow between Hamco and Franklin is 2,038 from Ham to Frank, 2070 from Frank to Ham. Net is -32 for Ham, so basically even.

Here are the top out and in for Franklin County:

Edited November 26, 20195 yr by DEPACincy

43 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

Maybe. It is Census data though so I thought this was an appropriate place. The other thread doesn't get as much action. 

 

As for Madison County, it's only a net of 146, so it's like 0.01% of the population of Hamco. Margin of error on that is 67, so it could be as low as 79 or as high as 213. But maybe a large employer moved? 

 

Flow between Hamco and Franklin is 2,038 from Ham to Frank, 2070 from Frank to Ham. Net is -32 for Ham, so basically even.

I don't see why anyone would really want to live out here unless it was up by the Plain City area.

 

*Hamco sounds like some kind of brand of potted meat lol.

1 hour ago, DEPACincy said:

Here are the top out and in for Franklin County:

 

Hmm...I wonder why there is (or was?) the narrative that so many people from the NYC area are moving to central Ohio.

6 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

Hmm...I wonder why there is (or was?) the narrative that so many people from the NYC area are moving to central Ohio.

 

It's not necessarily NYC.  It's New York and New Jersey overall.  Central Ohio in general does well with the Northeast states.

 

 

13 minutes ago, jonoh81 said:

It's not necessarily NYC.  It's New York and New Jersey overall.  Central Ohio in general does well with the Northeast states.

 

I just recall a lot of "Brooklyn New Yorkers priced out of the big city move to Columbus" type stories.

8 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

I just recall a lot of "Brooklyn New Yorkers priced out of the big city move to Columbus" type stories.

 

Yeah, so do I, but to be fair, they interviewed like 3 couples.  

53 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

Hmm...I wonder why there is (or was?) the narrative that so many people from the NYC area are moving to central Ohio.

 

Theoretically, Central Ohio could gain 500k people from the NYC area, but lose 500k people to the NYC area which would result in the NYC area not appearing on this list. This list is just looking at the net number. 

2 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

Here are the top out and in for Franklin County:

 

Most of Franklin County's losses are to other counties within the metro area, while all of its gains are from outside the metro area. That's good for the Columbus metro area, but unfortunately most of the gains are coming from the NEO region. 

Looking at both Cincy and Columbus, it appears that domestic migration overall is down a bit versus other recent periods.  It could be noise, or it could be part of the national trend where migration overall has fallen to historic lows.  

That said, both are doing much better than they were in the earliest period the Census has for countries- 2006-2010.  

2 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

Looking at both Cincy and Columbus, it appears that domestic migration overall is down a bit versus other recent periods.  It could be noise, or it could be part of the national trend where migration overall has fallen to historic lows.  

That said, both are doing much better than they were in the earliest period the Census has for countries- 2006-2010.  

https://www.aaronrenn.com/2019/11/21/midwest-success-stories-2/

 

Down just a bit? Just some noise?  Not according to Aaron Renn...Cbus and all other non-sunbelt cities(even the ones that are "success stories")have TERRIBLE negative out of stage migration patterns. And this needs to be a focal point in a discussion about Midwest success stories-take 3 of those successes(Minneapolis, Indy, Cbus) and compare them to sunbelt boom cities(Austin, Nashville, Raleigh)in order to keep with his agenda of perils ahead! *eyeroll*. Columbus was singled out of all them, naturally. Why not just title the thing "Midwest Migration Perils!"

 

He is sooo predictable lol.

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the sunbelt cities are getting the non-Ohio Appalachian migrants that the Midwest used to get. Also wouldn't be surprised if the lack of rail transit is starting to catch up with Columbus. And Indy. The Cincinnati streetcar hasn't been running long enough to really affect these numbers yet. 

52 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the sunbelt cities are getting the non-Ohio Appalachian migrants that the Midwest used to get. Also wouldn't be surprised if the lack of rail transit is starting to catch up with Columbus. And Indy. The Cincinnati streetcar hasn't been running long enough to really affect these numbers yet. 

I wonder if the numbers of them migrating has fallen as well. I am not so sure that many would be bothered by lack of rail, especially given how many are supposedly going to Nashville, Raleigh, etc. -not exactly hotspots for good mass transit systems. Probably the same thing it has always been-jobs. 

 

I wonder given the area we are talking about, the bulk number of people migrating and why they are migrating, if that many would really give two s$$ts about rail. I wonder how many of them would even care about a forum like this?

 

How many are looking for warehouse/distribution/service jobs vs how many are college graduates looking for urban amenities?..etc?

Edited November 27, 20195 yr by Toddguy

Franklin County is home to THE biggest university in Ohio. In autumn of 2019, 3,924 OSU enrollees originate from Cuyahoga County. So the notion that people from Cuyahoga are migrating in mass amounts to Franklin is a complete fallacy.

 

1 hour ago, Toddguy said:

I wonder if the numbers of them migrating has fallen as well. I am not so sure that many would be bothered by lack of rail, especially given how many are supposedly going to Nashville, Raleigh, etc. -not exactly hotspots for good mass transit systems. Probably the same thing it has always been-jobs. 

 

I wonder given the area we are talking about, the bulk number of people migrating and why they are migrating, if that many would really give two s$$ts about rail. I wonder how many of them would even care about a forum like this?

 

How many are looking for warehouse/distribution/service jobs vs how many are college graduates looking for urban amenities?..etc?

 

Speculating again, but I think the out-migration is fueled by lack of rail, but the decreased in-migration from non-Ohio Appalachia probably isn't as much. When I lived in WV, all the talk was of D.C., regular Virginia, North Carolina, basically the whole Mid-Atlantic with some South thrown in. It wasn't much Columbus as it would have been in 1980 and definitely not Cincinnati or Indy. After a while Appalachians started getting sick of the crap Ohioans were throwing at them when they came while the Mid-Atlantic states don't do that to them (Mid-Atlantic states look at WV like Vermont instead of Alabama). NC doesn't do that either... but the Deep South still can give them a hard time.

Edited November 27, 20195 yr by GCrites80s

Could a 10 mile subway underneath High Street in Columbus (say, from Frank Rd. to Morse Rd.) change the reputation and trajectory of the entire state of Ohio? It could start a positive feedback loop that might 

Edited November 27, 20195 yr by thebillshark

It could, but there is no political will for a project that ambitious. However light rail with a combination of street running and dedicated ROW (underutilized existing rail corridors, not busy ones that the freight companies are extremely protective of)  is doable and affordable. Yet as it stands there isn't enough political will for that even.

10 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

Could a 10 mile subway underneath High Street in Columbus (say, from Frank Rd. to Morse Rd.) change the reputation and trajectory of the entire state of Ohio? It could start a positive feedback loop that might 

 

A high-quality 3C's rail service + 10 miles of real subway in each of the 3C's would be huge.  The state can easily afford this.  Maryland is building the purple line in suburban DC, for example.   

29 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

It could, but there is no political will for a project that ambitious. However light rail with a combination of street running and dedicated ROW (underutilized existing rail corridors, not busy ones that the freight companies are extremely protective of)  is doable and affordable. Yet as it stands there isn't enough political will for that even.

I think light rail for Columbus is just light rail for Columbus, though. Underutilized existing rail corridors don’t go near the most bustling pedestrian areas and crossroads, and street running rail gets delayed in traffic. A subway (perhaps automated for super low headways) avoids those problems and sets a gold standard. The resulting big city growth that would ensue would change the Ohio brand (remember Columbus, Ohio is one of the largest cities to be usually be referred to by both city and state) could help other cities like Dayton, Toledo, and even Cincinnati and Cleveland shed their Rust Belt image. 

 

28 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

A high-quality 3C's rail service + 10 miles of real subway in each of the 3C's would be huge.  The state can easily afford this.  Maryland is building the purple line in suburban DC, for example.   

I think Columbus should do it first because they are already winning the growth game and have the flat land grid structure and attitude to support more. 

17 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

I think light rail for Columbus is just light rail for Columbus, though. Underutilized existing rail corridors don’t go near the most bustling pedestrian areas and crossroads, and street running rail gets delayed in traffic. 

 

 

 

Oh but they do. Previously on UO (can't remember where) were maps showing these existing corridors and they are in fantastic locations. Almost everywhere important in core Columbus has rail right there already or would be on the street portion. It's a lot different that Cincinnati in that the rails aren't mostly sequestered in places like the West End, East End, the Mill Creek or trapped in the other few flat ares. Without Cranley around signal prioritization for the street portions won't be a mess. Columbus' apathy is also its power in this case. No Bob in Mason or other fire-breathing suburbanites.

 

I mean you have rail running right now from the Convention Center just south of the Short North past Nationwide Arena, Huntington Park, the new Crew stadium, then to Grandview Yard then to just south of the Grandview strip. Unbelievable potential. It is wide gauge though. I don't think I ever had to stop an the tracks in the 5 years I lived in Grandview.

Edited November 27, 20195 yr by GCrites80s

22 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

It makes sense to combine Cleveland and Akron. The east side suburbs run into each other. The one question I have is that Akron is already combined with Canton, so do they combine Cle-Akr-Can or is it still Akron-Canton and separately Cleveland-Akron, which can get confusing.

 

As someone originally from Canton, I take issue with this and proudly declare Akron/Canton remain a thing and not Cleveland/Akron, thank you.

 

I'm just kidding. I'm actually from Massillon. If you did Cleveland/Akron, Canton/Massillon I guess that would be alright. Canton and Massillon blob together at this point with tons of unnecessary sprawl.

Edited November 27, 20195 yr by Zyrokai

It's the same problem you run into with Cin-Day. Sure the amorphous blob of sprawl around Monroe could realistically be "shared" by both metros, the Miami Valley stretches up to at least Sidney, and the northern Valley towns feel very different culturally from the "linear city" south of I-675. 

13 hours ago, Toddguy said:

https://www.aaronrenn.com/2019/11/21/midwest-success-stories-2/

 

Down just a bit? Just some noise?  Not according to Aaron Renn...Cbus and all other non-sunbelt cities(even the ones that are "success stories")have TERRIBLE negative out of stage migration patterns. And this needs to be a focal point in a discussion about Midwest success stories-take 3 of those successes(Minneapolis, Indy, Cbus) and compare them to sunbelt boom cities(Austin, Nashville, Raleigh)in order to keep with his agenda of perils ahead! *eyeroll*. Columbus was singled out of all them, naturally. Why not just title the thing "Midwest Migration Perils!"

 

He is sooo predictable lol.

 

 

 

 

Isn't the Columbus metro adding near 30k people per year?  Are these people really all coming from within Ohio?  It doesn't seem possible.

11 hours ago, GCrites80s said:

 

Speculating again, but I think the out-migration is fueled by lack of rail, but the decreased in-migration from non-Ohio Appalachia probably isn't as much. When I lived in WV, all the talk was of D.C., regular Virginia, North Carolina, basically the whole Mid-Atlantic with some South thrown in. It wasn't much Columbus as it would have been in 1980 and definitely not Cincinnati or Indy. After a while Appalachians started getting sick of the crap Ohioans were throwing at them when they came while the Mid-Atlantic states don't do that to them (Mid-Atlantic states look at WV like Vermont instead of Alabama). NC doesn't do that either... but the Deep South still can give them a hard time.

Well it is unfortunate that they feel like they are not welcome here but are welcome in the Mid-Atlantic states. I understand it though, as I have all of the West Virginia jokes for decades.  I have seen the disdain for unskilled or semi-skilled working class people migrating to Cbus in posts on this board. 

12 hours ago, Metz44 said:

Franklin County is home to THE biggest university in Ohio. In autumn of 2019, 3,924 OSU enrollees originate from Cuyahoga County. So the notion that people from Cuyahoga are migrating in mass amounts to Franklin is a complete fallacy.

 

 

The reality, however, is that Columbus does a decent job of retaining those people after graduation.  Also, migration figures don't make any assumptions on the length of stay, only that the people entered a location in a given year.  Living in a place for at least 4 years, even if just for school, would count as being a resident.  

14 hours ago, Toddguy said:

https://www.aaronrenn.com/2019/11/21/midwest-success-stories-2/

 

Down just a bit? Just some noise?  Not according to Aaron Renn...Cbus and all other non-sunbelt cities(even the ones that are "success stories")have TERRIBLE negative out of stage migration patterns. And this needs to be a focal point in a discussion about Midwest success stories-take 3 of those successes(Minneapolis, Indy, Cbus) and compare them to sunbelt boom cities(Austin, Nashville, Raleigh)in order to keep with his agenda of perils ahead! *eyeroll*. Columbus was singled out of all them, naturally. Why not just title the thing "Midwest Migration Perils!"

 

He is sooo predictable lol.

 

 

 

 

 

I've already taken him to task for *only* using IRS figures, which have serious flaws.  Columbus has been attracting more immigrants in recent years than at any point in the last 50, but if you read his stories, you would believe that migration is collapsing.  He also doesn't seem to believe that international migration has any value, only domestic, as he never mentions it.  Furthermore, even if Columbus had no migration whatsoever, the population would still be growing decently just due to natural growth rates.  Honestly, I think he singles out Columbus because some people- myself included- have criticized him on his stories regarding it.  He seems to have a chip on his shoulder now.

11 hours ago, GCrites80s said:

It could, but there is no political will for a project that ambitious. However light rail with a combination of street running and dedicated ROW (underutilized existing rail corridors, not busy ones that the freight companies are extremely protective of)  is doable and affordable. Yet as it stands there isn't enough political will for that even.

 

I was reading an article yesterday about the NW Corridor and how it was going to be studied- again- to find out what type of transit would be best (as if we don't already know they'll go with a bus).  The study will take 18 months before more studies start.  It gave me an idea to search through the records to see just how many times mass transit has been studied around the city with nothing tangible coming from it.  I've started looking just since 1980.  The last time I looked into this, though not as thoroughly, I found at least a dozen times in the 1990s alone.  The only thing about transit that Columbus has ever been serious about is wasting money studying it.