With all this talk about MSAs, I wonder how the drastic increase in work from home and online shopping will affect which counties remain part of certain MSAs....

Right, I live in Akron and my to one side works in Cuyahoga county and has not been to the office since March. My other Neighbor to direct other side works at Stark State but has been back to work . The other Neighbor next to them works at Kent State and has been back as well. Spending almost a whole year working from home has saved him a ton in not just commuting but in Lunch and Starbucks.


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22 hours ago, westakron1 said:

I read somewhere on another forum that cities(MSAs) can lobby against merging...not sure how true this is though.  They said that Akron has essentially lobbied against merging with Cleveland and Canton has done the same concerning merging with Akron .

 

They can lobby if they want but it won't have any effect. The definition is the definition and the feds are very strict in applying it. That's my understanding at least.

 
They can lobby if they want but it won't have any effect. The definition is the definition and the feds are very strict in applying it. That's my understanding at least.

That was my understanding as well , I wish I could remember where it was said but they were pretty dogmatic there was more to it than the definition.


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On 1/11/2021 at 8:58 AM, westakron1 said:

Right, I live in Akron and my to one side works in Cuyahoga county and has not been to the office since March. My other Neighbor to direct other side works at Stark State but has been back to work . The other Neighbor next to them works at Kent State and has been back as well. Spending almost a whole year working from home has saved him a ton in not just commuting but in Lunch and Starbucks.


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Does whether you physically go to an office in another MSA count, or does it matter where your employer dictates or reports that you work. 

 

For example, if a company reports to the IRS/Rita that you work in their Downtown Cleveland office, but you live in downtown Akron and work 100% from home, wouldn't you still be counted as a commuter?

51 minutes ago, Mov2Ohio said:

 

Does whether you physically go to an office in another MSA count, or does it matter where your employer dictates or reports that you work. 

 

For example, if a company reports to the IRS/Rita that you work in their Downtown Cleveland office, but you live in downtown Akron and work 100% from home, wouldn't you still be counted as a commuter?

 

I believe it is based on self-reported work location, like the commuting data in the ACS. The question is something along the lines of "Where did you work the majority of days last week?" So if you work from home that is captured.

21 hours ago, westakron1 said:

That was my understanding as well , I wish I could remember where it was said but they were pretty dogmatic there was more to it than the definition.


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Yes lobbying alone will not matter, but when you have the commute numbers to back it up it makes the process that much easier, as the OBM does not have to deal with opposition. At 38 per cent commuting between Summit and Stark counties, Akron/Canton comes well within the required 25 per cent threshold required by OBM {Office of Budget and Management}. So barring some other unknown factor, such as a recent increase in Summit/Cuyahoga commuting, or the undeniable power of politics it stands a good chance of happening. Also i would think that determining commuting would be based on where one lives and works, as they would not know when you were working from home, or in the office.

I don't know if anyone's posted this and I'm not going back 74 pages to verify as this article's six years old, but the charts are interesting 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/13/upshot/where-people-in-each-state-were-born.html#Ohio

^ seems legit -- except kind of surprised california became the second destination to move to after florida -- if i am reading that right.

Snowbirds find Florida more accessible since it can be driven to a lot quicker.

29 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

Florida

 

For those who dream of Florida, it's "Florida", as if Ft. Walton Beach has one lick of similarity with Miami.  You can drop these people in - gasp - Gainsville and they'd be elated because they're in...Florida.  Because Florida is more of a concept and emotion than an actual physical place.  

 

You know how Hollywood sez Kansas and by extension the entire midwest is boring because it's flat?  Have any of these people ever been to Florida?  

 

 

8 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

For those who dream of Florida, it's "Florida", as if Ft. Walton Beach has one lick of similarity with Miami.  You can drop these people in - gasp - Gainsville and they'd be elated because they're in...Florida.  Because Florida is more of a concept and emotion than an actual physical place.  

Speaking as a former resident of FL, I find this comment highly perceptive.

9 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said:

Speaking as a former resident of FL, I find this comment highly perceptive.

 

I like Miami the best, by far, of any part of Florida I've visited.  It functions like a real city and it has a ton of attitude.  Tampa/St. Pete is a lot less impressive and there is too much of middle class people just admiring themselves for being in Florida.  Jacksonville seemed like more Carolina.  The gulf coast has too much Jimmy Buffet going on and it's dangerously close to Alabama.  

Then there's the whole why do Cincinnatians like Destin so much while the Columbusites go straight for Bradenton/Sarasota/Palmetto complex?

^ I lived in Miami and for the reasons you've stated, it's quite literally the only part of the state I would want to have lived in. It's not only completely different to the rest of the state, it felt to me unlike actually living in the USA. It's not called the 'Capitol of Latin America' for nothing and it's all the better for it.

7 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

Then there's the whole why do Cincinnatians like Destin so much while the Columbusites go straight for Bradenton/Sarasota/Palmetto complex?

 

Cincinnati loves Destin if you're working-class, Clearwater if you're middle-upper class, and Naples if you're high-class.  Cincinnati has never been to Miami except for Superbowl XXIII and the 2009 Orange Bowl, and even then, we just went to that stadium and turned right back around.  

High-Class Columbus Goes for Naples as well. The Germains set up an outpost there in the '80s complete with satellite locations for their car dealerships.

Just an FYI, but new shapefiles for districts, tracts, blocks, etc. for the new census will start to be released beginning January 19th and finishing by February 28th.  They will also be releasing data to help directly compare new area designations with those from the 2010 census.

 

Still no schedule on when the 2020 data is actually released.

1 hour ago, GCrites80s said:

High-Class Columbus Goes for Naples as well. The Germains set up an outpost there in the '80s complete with satellite locations for their car dealerships.

 

Cranley claims to be a west sider yet he and his brother inherited their grandfather's vacation house on the Naples waterfront back in 2015 or so and immediately sold it to an LLC out of Chicago for $10 million.  This was right around when Cranley was yucking it up with Rahm Emanuel so there were rumors that the house sale, which reportedly sold for 2X market value, was a way of funneling kickback money to Cranley.  The house was built by his grandfather back in the 1970s for like $200,000 so it wasn't that decadent but nevertheless I grew up on the west side and never even heard of Naples, FL until I was an adult.  I never heard of a "vacation home" until I was maybe 23.  I knew there were houses on coasts but I always thought people lived there full-time (like the people were actually from that area for generations) or companies owned them and rented them out.  Again, I never heard of anyone owning more than one house until I was in college or even after.  

On 12/31/2020 at 3:10 PM, Dougal said:

Georgia has a very real water problem, which will eventually limit their growth.  Ongoing disputes with Alabama and Florida over how much river water Georgia can use are already pinching.

 

10 years from now it's hard to say where populations will stand, but let's just say we play with this past decade's numbers.  Ohio could still maintain its spot at #7 if current growth rates continue.  It looks like the only real threats to passing Ohio in population are North Carolina and Georgia.  

 

If Georgia keeps the same growth, it would go from 10,710,017 with the addition of 1,022,364 residents bringing it to a total of 11,732,381.

 

If North Carolina keeps the same growth, it would go from 10,600,823 with the addition of 1,065,340 residents bringing it to a total of 11,666,163.

 

If Ohio keeps the same growth, it would go from 11,693,217 with the addition of 156,713 residents bringing it to a total of 11,849,930.

On 1/15/2021 at 12:26 PM, jmecklenborg said:

You can drop these people in - gasp - Gainsville and they'd be elated because they're in...Florida.

 

As someone who has lived in Gainesville, you're totally on point with the regard that Ohioans hold to the magical allure of crossing the state line, regardless of whether it's just beyond the Okefenokee swamp or it's somewhere that actually fits their vision ("Orlando" aka Lake Buena Vista, or Clearwater, Fort Myers, Destin, Naples...)

For me, finding out Skynard was from Florida was weird as a kid. I guess I figured everything from Florida sounded like Miami Vice music, not that Tennessee sounding stuff.

On 1/15/2021 at 1:07 PM, jmecklenborg said:

 

Cincinnati loves Destin if you're working-class, Clearwater if you're middle-upper class, and Naples if you're high-class.  Cincinnati has never been to Miami except for Superbowl XXIII and the 2009 Orange Bowl, and even then, we just went to that stadium and turned right back around.  

I think the Atlantic Coast of Florida is East Coast transplants, Especially as you get down to So Florida (Boca, FL, Miami Beach, West Palm). The Gulf coast is midwestern transplants, retirees. To your point, the pan handle is where the working class relocates, but they also relocate to Orlando too. 

Another wildcard is that 11 million illegal immigrants may be granted citizenship in the next year or so. Ohio has a relatively small illegal immigrant population (estimates put it under 100,000) but Georgia and North Carolina each have >4X that amount. If rates hold steady, that huge influx alone would cause Ohio to fall a few spots and probably lose a couple House seats. If immigration rates increase but the pattern remains, GA and NC will see even more significant growth as additional immigrants settle there.

Edited January 17, 20214 yr by Ram23

1 hour ago, Ram23 said:

 

Another wildcard is that 11 million illegal immigrants may be granted citizenship in the next year or so. Ohio has a relatively small illegal immigrant population (estimates put it under 100,000) but Georgia and North Carolina each have >4X that amount. If rates hold steady, that huge influx alone would cause Ohio to fall a few spots and probably lose a couple House seats.

 

Those people are already counted in both the decennial and annual estimates, much to the outrage of some.  Changing their status will not affect state populations.

18 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

 

Those people are already counted in both the decennial and annual estimates, much to the outrage of some.  Changing their status will not affect state populations.

 

There are attempts to count them, certainly, but most suspect that those are wildly off (especially this year).  We might get to find out soon enough, though. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ohio's already low estimate turn out to be too high, while states in the south end up having significantly higher populations of illegals.

15 minutes ago, Ram23 said:

 

There are attempts to count them, certainly, but most suspect that those are wildly off (especially this year).  We might get to find out soon enough, though. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ohio's already low estimate turn out to be too high, while states in the south end up having significantly higher populations of illegals.

 

No one of any legitimacy suspects the numbers are "wildly off".  It's true that many do not answer census questionnaires for obvious reasons, but a lot of native Americans do not answer them either.  The Census accounts for that and they don't just rely on response rates.  The counts are probably off by some, but not by hundreds of thousands or millions.  Not even close.  State populations will not change much, if at all, when/if those people are granted citizenship.  

Related, Trump didn't get his wish on the Census regarding counting undocumented immigrants.

 

https://us.yahoo.com/news/trump-appointees-pressure-census-report-144949540.html

 

On 1/15/2021 at 2:23 PM, jonoh81 said:

Just an FYI, but new shapefiles for districts, tracts, blocks, etc. for the new census will start to be released beginning January 19th and finishing by February 28th.  They will also be releasing data to help directly compare new area designations with those from the 2010 census.

 

Still no schedule on when the 2020 data is actually released.

 

So these came out for Ohio on the 26th.  Here are maps for the 3-C counties that include the 2010 census tract divisions, as well as new census tract divisions for the upcoming 2020 release.  Census tract boundaries almost always change when there is strong population growth.  In those circumstances, tracts tend to break up into smaller areas. 

 

Cuyahoga County:  https://arcg.is/1qviHi

I didn't really see any changes between 2010 and 2020, but I didn't spend much time going through it.  

 

Franklin County: https://arcg.is/LKqCG

Lots of changes.  Large tracts have been broken up throughout the outer burbs, but also in some urban areas, including Downtown.  Perhaps a few dozen new tracts overall.

 

Hamilton County: https://arcg.is/naSK40

Some changes here and there.  

 

Do we know when the official 2020 Census city population numbers will be released? 

2 hours ago, ink said:

Do we know when the official 2020 Census city population numbers will be released? 

In May, according to this: https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/popest/about/schedule.html

1 hour ago, Pablo said:

In May, according to this: https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/popest/about/schedule.html

 

Note that that is the ACS estimates for 2020. The 2020 decennial Census official numbers for cities won't come out until 2022 now.

40 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

Note that that is the ACS estimates for 2020. The 2020 decennial Census official numbers for cities won't come out until 2022 now.

 

State numbers are predicted to be out sometime in May from what I've read.  They expect to finish the count by April 30th at last news.  States were supposed to be out in December, but given the pandemic and all the political shenanigans with the Census, everything has been delayed significantly.  Hopefully we can get city numbers before next year.

3 hours ago, jonoh81 said:

 

State numbers are predicted to be out sometime in May from what I've read.  They expect to finish the count by April 30th at last news.  States were supposed to be out in December, but given the pandemic and all the political shenanigans with the Census, everything has been delayed significantly.  Hopefully we can get city numbers before next year.

 

State numbers aren't going to be out until September now last I heard.

On 3/4/2021 at 7:30 PM, DEPACincy said:

 

State numbers aren't going to be out until September now last I heard.

 

https://2020census.gov/en/important-dates.html

 

This suggests state population will be released by April 30th and other data by September 30th.  If that's true, we should get everything this year.  I read a news release a few weeks ago saying state counts should be done by April 30th, so I assumed they would be released in May.

Edited March 6, 20214 yr by jonoh81

For fun, shall we start taking bets on the 2020 Ohio number? Let's see who can get the closest!  For reference, here are the historical numbers:

 

1970   10,652,017   9.7% growth from previous Census

1980   10,797,630   1.4%

1990   10,847,115    0.5%

2000   11,353,140   4.7%

2010   11,536,504   1.6%

2019 (est.)   11,689,100    1.3% (2010 to 2019 est growth)  (Official estimate)

 

It would be great to break the 12 million mark, but that would mean a growth rate of 4.018% from 2010.

 

I'm going to be a little optimistic and put as at 2.78% growth (meaning the 2019 estimate is too low), so:

 

2020    11,857,219

 

Can you explain more about the holdup with the 2020 numbers? I'm confused.

 

You don't see many posts concerning the growth rate of Ohio as a state; just study results with obscure metrics and sources for whatever very random thing an individual city is supposed to be concerned with at that time. I seriously commend you for bringing positive news that we can all enjoy and celebrate together. Whether you're from Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland or the forgotten-about areas of appalachia, Toledo or Dayton, we all have skin in the game and we should be concerned about the entire state's health.

Edited March 7, 20214 yr by David

ll 

7 hours ago, Pugu said:

For fun, shall we start taking bets on the 2020 Ohio number? Let's see who can get the closest!  For reference, here are the historical numbers:

 

1970   10,652,017   9.7% growth from previous Census

1980   10,797,630   1.4%

1990   10,847,115    0.5%

2000   11,353,140   4.7%

2010   11,536,504   1.6%

2019 (est.)   11,689,100    1.3% (2010 to 2019 est growth)  (Official estimate)

 

It would be great to break the 12 million mark, but that would mean a growth rate of 4.018% from 2010.

 

I'm going to be a little optimistic and put as at 2.78% growth (meaning the 2019 estimate is too low), so:

 

2020    11,857,219

 

 

I'd go more pessimistic than you.  The 2010s, like the 2000s, were pretty full of issues.  There were economic problems, the pandemic, a sustained attack on nearly all immigration, etc., all of which produced slower growth in many places nationally.  Ohio has not been a strong growth state for decades, so it's hard to believe it wasn't also affected.  

There is also the consideration that the Census estimates recently had the state losing population- not overall since 2010, but over the last year or two, which would cut into any previous growth.

 

The 2019 Ohio estimate was, as you mentioned, 11,689,100, but the 2020 estimate showed a loss with the state down to 11,693,217 from 2019. Estimates tend to be more pessimistic to low growth states like Ohio than what the decennial census tends to find.  Provided the Trump administration didn't botch it really badly (a non-zero possibility), there's historic precedent that Ohio won't be as bad as indicated in the estimates.

 

So all that said, I would guess that Ohio's count ends up somewhere between 11,685,000 (low end about +150,000) and 11,800,000 (high end about +250,000).  I know that range is pretty large, so if I had to guess a very specific number, it would be 11,755,698- on the higher end of the range, but still less than 2% growth during the decade.

 

 

10 hours ago, Pugu said:

For fun, shall we start taking bets on the 2020 Ohio number? Let's see who can get the closest!  For reference, here are the historical numbers:

 

1970   10,652,017   9.7% growth from previous Census

1980   10,797,630   1.4%

1990   10,847,115    0.5%

2000   11,353,140   4.7%

2010   11,536,504   1.6%

2019 (est.)   11,689,100    1.3% (2010 to 2019 est growth)  (Official estimate)

 

It would be great to break the 12 million mark, but that would mean a growth rate of 4.018% from 2010.

 

I'm going to be a little optimistic and put as at 2.78% growth (meaning the 2019 estimate is too low), so:

 

2020    11,857,219

 

Only if we use TPIR bidding rules 🙃

 

15 hours ago, David said:

Can you explain more about the holdup with the 2020 numbers? I'm confused.

 

The pandemic and the Trump Administration's incompetence slowed the process so the data release has been delayed.

Sort of a related side note observation, as someone who is relatively new to the area. UrbanOhio seems like the right place to discuss and gain some insight. I'd also guess I'm not alone in my perception, which could have an impact (for better or worse) on future planning and development in Licking County.

 

I've noticed that a lot of longtime/native Newark residents definitely think of Newark as self-contained metro (which it absolutely is!), but as someone new to the area I can't help but think of Newark/Heath/Granville as suburban Columbus.

 

My wife and I are often surprised by how many of her students and Newark-resident colleagues think of doing things in Columbus as a big deal. Pre-pandemic, we probably ran a small majority of our errands and trips to restaurants in the immediate area, but never thought anything of going to Columbus for variety (there is afterall a critical lack of quality Indian food in Licking County). But for the most part, we've been impressed with how easy it is to stay local and accomplish most things, and we do like to spend our money in Licking County when we can.
 

I've been trying to think through why our overall perception is so different. It could be as simple as the 16/37/161 highway has always been in place in the time we've lived in the area. We're sort of in there middle compared to most of Newark - it's 10-15 minutes to get to the various stores on 21st Street or in Heath, but only 20-25 minutes to Easton. Before the highway was in place I could easily see how it was a pain getting anywhere in Columbus from out here for much of anything, I really hate that section of I-70 and it takes time just to get to it. Also realizing that perhaps we developed some of our routines when the traffic light was still in place at Cherry Valley Road, it actually was often quicker/easier to go to Columbus on weekday evenings.

It's also possible it's mostly just us. Being from the Cincinnati area, everything up this way is "Columbus", as I'd assume someone from this area would think of Hamilton as "Cincinnati". We also lived in Athens for several years, so (other than a good variety of local food options) we got a bit used to having to drive 50 miles to go to Target.

Still a lot of open space between Columbus and Newark. If you're coming in on 70 you will drive through quite a bit of the Uncool Crescent until you get close to Downtown. That's like how people from Circleville have to drive through miles of Uncool Crescent to get to the better stuff.

41 minutes ago, mrCharlie said:

Sort of a related side note observation, as someone who is relatively new to the area. UrbanOhio seems like the right place to discuss and gain some insight. I'd also guess I'm not alone in my perception, which could have an impact (for better or worse) on future planning and development in Licking County.

 

I've noticed that a lot of longtime/native Newark residents definitely think of Newark as self-contained metro (which it absolutely is!), but as someone new to the area I can't help but think of Newark/Heath/Granville as suburban Columbus.

 

My wife and I are often surprised by how many of her students and Newark-resident colleagues think of doing things in Columbus as a big deal. Pre-pandemic, we probably ran a small majority of our errands and trips to restaurants in the immediate area, but never thought anything of going to Columbus for variety (there is afterall a critical lack of quality Indian food in Licking County). But for the most part, we've been impressed with how easy it is to stay local and accomplish most things, and we do like to spend our money in Licking County when we can.
 

I've been trying to think through why our overall perception is so different. It could be as simple as the 16/37/161 highway has always been in place in the time we've lived in the area. We're sort of in there middle compared to most of Newark - it's 10-15 minutes to get to the various stores on 21st Street or in Heath, but only 20-25 minutes to Easton. Before the highway was in place I could easily see how it was a pain getting anywhere in Columbus from out here for much of anything, I really hate that section of I-70 and it takes time just to get to it. Also realizing that perhaps we developed some of our routines when the traffic light was still in place at Cherry Valley Road, it actually was often quicker/easier to go to Columbus on weekday evenings.

It's also possible it's mostly just us. Being from the Cincinnati area, everything up this way is "Columbus", as I'd assume someone from this area would think of Hamilton as "Cincinnati". We also lived in Athens for several years, so (other than a good variety of local food options) we got a bit used to having to drive 50 miles to go to Target.

 

Hamilton is actually slightly closer to Cincinnati than Newark is to Columbus.  And as GCrites noted, there's still a lot of open space between Newark and Columbus.  Would you consider Oxford to be a suburb of Cincinnati?

 

The county capitals of the six counties that surround Franklin are Newark, Marysville, Delaware, Lancaster, Circleville, and London.  Of those, the only one I'd consider close to being a suburb of Columbus at this point is Delaware, because the northerly sprawl of Columbus has grown the most, with Polaris, Powell, Lewis Center, and environs.

 

I went to Watkins Memorial, and I was there when Easton opened.  The 16-37-161 corridor had not been built up yet.  Even going to Easton was considered a big deal then--and Easton is on the near side of Columbus, and Pataskala is closer to it than Newark.  Going to Polaris or City Center Mall was definitely a big deal.

 

The existence of the 16-37-161 as just a fact of life for you, rather than as a New Thing, definitely might be responsible for some of your perceptions of Newark just being "suburban Columbus," but I think you'll still be in the minority in that for a while yet.  I could easily call Newark greater Columbus, but not suburban Columbus.  

I remember an engineer friend wanting to borrow my quad to do engineering field work on for the four-lane 161 that was still in the design phase. I was already 27 years old.

38 minutes ago, Gramarye said:

I went to Watkins Memorial, and I was there when Easton opened.  The 16-37-161 corridor had not been built up yet.  Even going to Easton was considered a big deal then--and Easton is on the near side of Columbus, and Pataskala is closer to it than Newark.  Going to Polaris or City Center Mall was definitely a big deal.

 

Pataskala definitely used to feel much more separated from the "contiguous Columbus area", but that has really changed over the past 10-15 years. Broad Street and Main Street are both almost completely built up between Pataskala/Etna and 270. Broad Street is so much more built up than it was even in the early 2000s. There's really just about a one mile stretch on Broad that still needs to be developed, but other than that you don't really feel like you are "leaving the city" when you drive to Pataskala on Broad. 

 

51 minutes ago, Gramarye said:

The existence of the 16-37-161 as just a fact of life for you, rather than as a New Thing, definitely might be responsible for some of your perceptions of Newark just being "suburban Columbus," but I think you'll still be in the minority in that for a while yet.  I could easily call Newark greater Columbus, but not suburban Columbus.  

 

Yea, I still wouldn't call it a suburb either, but I think that will change over the next few decades. Without the 16-37-161 corridor, Newark was much more isolated from the Columbus area. But now that that has been around for ~15 years and New Albany has exploded, things are beginning to change. Younger people are going back and forth between Columbus and Newark much more than their parents did. In another 15 years, you'll have 2-3 generations of people who had very easy access to Columbus, and the ever encroaching suburbs, which definitely change the way things feel. I don't know that we will ever get to a spot where the entire corridor is built up like 23 is going up Delaware, but it will definitely feel more a part of Columbus than ever before. 

I’ve been saying this for while, Licking County is exactly where Delaware County was in 2000. New Albany, Reynoldsburgh, Pataskala and Etna all extend into Licking County. Over the next 20 years, the growth is going to explode. I would challenge anybody in the world to find another County in the US that has a Boeing, Facebook, Google, Amazon, Owens Corning, State Farm...all Fortune 500 companies...located within that county. This is what is going to drive this explosive growth. That’s why this conversation is so important. This growth is about to come to Licking County and we have one community that is anti-growth. This mindset HAS to change for not only the Greater Newark Metro, but for Central Ohio. 

 

As for “Greater Newark”...yes I firmly believe Newark should be considered it’s own MSA. If you go by the Census Bureau’s definition of an MSA, Newark certain meets the criteria. 50,000 residents..check. Central city of more than one population center...check. Newark according to the latest estimate is 51,000. Heath is 11,000. Granville is 6,000. Hanover is 1,200.  We ARE our own metro...period. But I digress. At the very least, the Columbus CSA needs to be changed from Columbus/Marion/Zanesville to Columbus/Newark/Delaware. While the 161 corridor has take 12-15 mins off the drive, The Greater Newark Metro is still it’s own identity. In the next 20-30 years...yes that may certainly change, but as of now, Newark rightfully deserves its own MSA I’m my opinion. 

13 hours ago, OhioFinest said:

I’ve been saying this for while, Licking County is exactly where Delaware County was in 2000. New Albany, Reynoldsburgh, Pataskala and Etna all extend into Licking County. Over the next 20 years, the growth is going to explode. I would challenge anybody in the world to find another County in the US that has a Boeing, Facebook, Google, Amazon, Owens Corning, State Farm...all Fortune 500 companies...located within that county. This is what is going to drive this explosive growth. That’s why this conversation is so important. This growth is about to come to Licking County and we have one community that is anti-growth. This mindset HAS to change for not only the Greater Newark Metro, but for Central Ohio. 

 

As for “Greater Newark”...yes I firmly believe Newark should be considered it’s own MSA. If you go by the Census Bureau’s definition of an MSA, Newark certain meets the criteria. 50,000 residents..check. Central city of more than one population center...check. Newark according to the latest estimate is 51,000. Heath is 11,000. Granville is 6,000. Hanover is 1,200.  We ARE our own metro...period. But I digress. At the very least, the Columbus CSA needs to be changed from Columbus/Marion/Zanesville to Columbus/Newark/Delaware. While the 161 corridor has take 12-15 mins off the drive, The Greater Newark Metro is still it’s own identity. In the next 20-30 years...yes that may certainly change, but as of now, Newark rightfully deserves its own MSA I’m my opinion. 

While the Newark area is it's own little population pocket over there, it's way too close to Columbus to have its' own MSA. I guess you can look at the area you described, with maybe a little further reach into some of the surrounding rural areas although that isn't going to add many people, but you can get from parts of Newark and be in downtown Columbus in under 40 minutes (not during rush hour if that's even still a thing). Just way too close to separate out into its own MSA.

19 hours ago, Gramarye said:

 

Hamilton is actually slightly closer to Cincinnati than Newark is to Columbus.  And as GCrites noted, there's still a lot of open space between Newark and Columbus.  Would you consider Oxford to be a suburb of Cincinnati?

 

The county capitals of the six counties that surround Franklin are Newark, Marysville, Delaware, Lancaster, Circleville, and London.  Of those, the only one I'd consider close to being a suburb of Columbus at this point is Delaware, because the northerly sprawl of Columbus has grown the most, with Polaris, Powell, Lewis Center, and environs.

 

18 hours ago, cbussoccer said:

Pataskala definitely used to feel much more separated from the "contiguous Columbus area", but that has really changed over the past 10-15 years. Broad Street and Main Street are both almost completely built up between Pataskala/Etna and 270. Broad Street is so much more built up than it was even in the early 2000s. There's really just about a one mile stretch on Broad that still needs to be developed, but other than that you don't really feel like you are "leaving the city" when you drive to Pataskala on Broad. 

 

Yes, Hamilton is about 10 miles closer to Cincinnati than Newark is to Columbus, and aren't any gaps between the two. The two cities have been much more directly and closely connected through multiple eras of transportation, which furthers the interconnectedness. The term Greater Cincinnati is used all the time (I don't know that I've heard that sort of terminology used quite as much with Columbus), which I think contributes (in my mind at least) to the "suburb of" perception - but metro area/Greater Columbus is a lot more reasonable, and really probably does describe my perception a little better.

 

I am realizing that I'm definitely conflating Cincinnati and Columbus development patterns and history, when in reality they are quite different. Part of why I love having these discussions, I do like to know more about where I live. I think another factor is Cincinnati was much larger earlier on than Columbus, and many of the surrounding cities are closer to the core city, and mainly grew as a result of Cincinnati's overall growth. The county seats surrounding Columbus seem to generally be larger than those surrounding Cincinnati (Hamilton/Middletown being exceptions). 

 

Also the Pataskala area (for someone like myself who has no history with the area) definitely feels like an extension of Columbus. 16 being called E Broad Street from Downtown Columbus through all of Pataskala somewhat implies as much... You can also see Downtown while still in the City of Pataskala along 16, which always fascinates me... (These are possibly more unfair Cincinnati equivalencies - you can't really see downtown Cincinnati from far away, and Vine is the only downtown Street that extends much beyond downtown.) 

Edited March 12, 20214 yr by mrCharlie
hit send too soon...

2 minutes ago, mrCharlie said:

The term Greater Cincinnati is used all the time (I don't know that I've heard that sort of terminology used quite as much with Columbus)

 

It's definitely used in Columbus, although the more common term would be Central Ohio. 

1 minute ago, cbussoccer said:

 

It's definitely used in Columbus, although the more common term would be Central Ohio. 

 

I've definitely heard Central Ohio a lot more, and (without thinking about it) use that exact term myself. Really does imply a collection of independent cities more than a consolidated metro area, consistent with the perceptions of those who have been here much longer than me.